Somebody explain Klon to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klon-Centaur-GOLD-Early-Serial-Number-344-w-Horsie-Overdrive-OD-Guitar-Pedal-/290629744485?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item43aae1f765

$1500 on ebay. Seriously?

I went to you tube are listened to a bunch of clips. Its not a bad pedal and if it was $200 or less I might get one. But $999 new??!

Is this a case were somebody thinks if they charge a stupid price for something players will just assume it must be the best? I don't know what else it can be.

My understanding is that the Klon's magic is an indefinable, but notable 'presence' that it brings in loud, live situation particularly.

Youtube clips could not really help illustrate whether that magic is there, or not.

It could easily be concluded that if one does not have the ears to pick up the subtleties (audience likely wont), nor regularly play loud stages, one may risk wasting money and chasing shadows.

Equally, some will say it is worth its weight in gold, which is nearly the current market price.

I'd say, if a Klon's uber-superiority were really that obvious, it would be .. that obvious. And thus more obviously worth the very silly money.

If I did get one I would be scared to take it to the average bar gig.

Opps! hey man sorry I spilled beer on your $1000 Overdrive Pedal, says my singer as a puff of smoke rises from the pedal board.

If I did get one I would be scared to take it to the average bar gig.

Opps! hey man sorry I spilled beer on your $1000 Overdrive Pedal, says my singer as a puff of smoke rises from the pedal board.
yep...and lol...

Never messed with a real Klon....

After much getting used to, the Tone Vitamin is a pretty impressive little device. It's a Klon Klone....but there is a sparkle there not found in my other overdrives. It's something different, but no effect is worth that kind of $ to me.

I'd worry just as much at being seen with an obviously thousand dollar overdrive.
I'd have to be sure of it - and me - sounding stellar enough to justify the moolah/hype. ;)

And also the fear of someone making a grab for it.

Jim Campilongo uses one for dirt / presence - or so I gather.
JC's tone sounds great.
I suspect he always did sound great and always would - Before Klon, with Klon and without.
Maybe that is the level of mastery that is required before that small percentage of Klon advantage truly shows up and makes itself notable.

I'd be curious to try it out, but not at that price. In fact, I thought Bills retail price (when they were in production) was too high as is.

My friend bought one back when they were commercially available. He still has it and says it's his favorite overdrive. However, he said he would never buy one at current eBay prices...

I have the Klon Klone from JHS. Supose to be a 1:1 clone. It's not my favorite overdrive pedal. But it is my favorite with a cleaner sound when using the middle and bridge position of my Strat's singles. It has a very different Presence almost 3D effect, kinda hard to explain. It has a sweet spot with the Level maxed and the Gain just set around the 8 - 9 1/2. You can hear that unique Presence kick in. Again hard to explain. I wanna sell it but none of my other pedals can come close, so it stays on my board. There was a time I was using it soley as a boost but I couldn't justify a $300 boost! It is very different.

I recommend this JHS pedal if you can't pass the GAS. I think JHS only makes it when the real Klon is not being produced. Some secret deal. :?: I compare the whole Klon thing to the Mason's. It's the mystique that makes it. Obviously I didn't and wouldn't buy an original.

There are multiple people selling "Klones", but they're all close to $200. Bill says no one has perfected it yet because of... I forget which part, diodes, transistors something or other is basically impossible to get. He bought up all the supply he could find and the ones people use in the repros aren't the same. He could be telling the truth, or just trying to discredit the people making them by telling everyone they have it wrong.

No idea.

bad monkey=$20 used

OaZ-fGVBp_Q

There are multiple people selling "Klones", but they're all close to $200. Bill says no one has perfected it yet because of... I forget which part, diodes, transistors something or other is basically impossible to get. He bought up all the supply he could find and the ones people use in the repros aren't the same. He could be telling the truth, or just trying to discredit the people making them by telling everyone they have it wrong.

No idea.

Not a flame but I heard that too,,????????????? The JHS Klone is the only one that is not made when Bill is up and running????? Why???? Something more to that. Maybe, maybe not?

FWIW , back in 09 .011 Guage spoke highly of the builder (JHS) and expected a true clone..... IMO he was right. That's why I bought it. All the other Klon clones I heard were too bright or heavier sounding. The JHS has the sweetness of the original. I was hesitant at first but many other pedals that sound like many other pedals cost more so I went for it.

I have many dirt boxes that I can set up to almost mimic each other. I can not do that with the JHS Klone. I'm not claiming it's the greatest. The thing is if you like it - it's very hard to mimic it. JMO, YMMV

I don't know what you mean by "only one that isn't made when Bill is up and running". The Klon hasn't been made in a long time now. I don't think any clones popped up in any real quantity until months after he stopped. JHS had it first IIRC but caught a LOT of flak from the TGP community. He removed it from his site last I checked but still sold it. There are a few more people here and there that sell it. A few places, I think Madbean and... maybe GuitarPCB (theirs is a variant) sold the boards complete with schematics etc.

There used to be a guy selling them on eBay a while back. He'd post 1 or 2 every so often for like $150 or so.

That Bad Monkey vid is fantastic comparison. They sound virtually the same to me.

Apparently JHS and Bill have some type of verbal agreement. JHS does not build their Klone whenever Bill is making, selling, etc.. his pedal. It's in place in case production starts up again I guess. FWIW, I just went to the JHS website and the Klone is not listed. So I guess you can not get one of them now too. The saga continues...

Email him and ask. I'm pretty sure he'll quote you a price. Just for kicks, give it a shot

That's interesting. I had my Klone for a while now so my info is a little stale. My research started while I was shopping for it and ended the day it arrived and plugged it in. Search over.

I think the Klon and it's true 1:1 clones have a few things going for it. It's not the best OD as far as maxing the Gain. But love it or hate it, it does have a unique sound. With the Gain knob just turned enough until the tone changes and that 3D presence kicks in until right around ten o'clock before it then starts distrorting more is the bomb. IMO, it's the low drive area on the Gain knob where all the magic is, anything else - I have better choices on tap.

But if you gave $1,200 to buy an original Klon I'd take the money, run the other way and buy four vintage TS9's. Why?

1) Becuase I would use them more.
2) IMO, They would be an easier sell down the road.
3) They're bright green, look cool.
4) Sound good to me (live)
5) Everybody knows what they are!
6) They have the mojo.

All in all I'm glad I bought the JHS Klone. It stopped the G.A.S!!! Plus I don't have to start a thread like this one. Now, with all this chatter I will play it tomorrow a little more than usual. :smile:

I agree with those who say to buy a klone. I've got one from Arc Effects that is fantastic. I hear good things about the one built by monsterpiece as well.

If I did get one I would be scared to take it to the average bar gig.

Opps! hey man sorry I spilled beer on your $1000 Overdrive Pedal, says my singer as a puff of smoke rises from the pedal board.

Hissssss...zap :lol:

"...Programmer Kevin Flynn (Jeff Bridges) has been swindled. When he was employed at the ENCOM Corporation his former colleague Ed Dillinger (David Warner) stole the ideas for several popular arcade games that Flynn had written. Flynn is sure that if he can get inside ENCOM, he can successfully crack..."

Oh, hang on. I thought you wrote "TRON"...

$1500 stompbox? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

It's obviously not in production anymore which is the biggest reason why it's so expensive as it wasn't cheap even when in production. It's not meant to be a gain heavy overdrive, it's very transparent & no, everyone can't hear the difference it makes in the audience & even alot of players can't hear it but then some musicians have perfect pitch & some are tone deaf even if they don't realize it. Analogman makes a similar Transparent drive called the King Of Tone which currently has a 2 year waiting list & sells for just over $250. You can get them on eBay for about $400 if you cant take the 2 year wait. Bottom line is they are both transparent drives & won't make you sound better than your talent level like a lot of overdrives do but if you've got the chops then these pedals are amazing in a live situation.

It's a collectible thing, like rare coins or postcards.

If you want a great, durable pedal with transparent sound... Just buy something from Barber. :)

FWIW , back in 09 .011 Guage spoke highly of the builder (JHS) and expected a true clone..... IMO he was right. That's why I bought it. All the other Klon clones I heard were too bright or heavier sounding.

I need to clarify, as there are two "JHS's" out there. One was simply an individual on the DIY forums with a WEALTH of information at a truly deep technical level. I don't know his education, but wouldn't be surprised if he was something like an EE.

Anyway, the "JHS that I spoke of" (who lives somewhere in Europe, IIRC), and this JHS outfit that has all these pedals like the Sweet Tea/Charlie Brown/etc./etc. (forgive me as I'm not super familiar with all of his wares) is copying stuff designed by others. He has copied at least two Devi Ever designs to the point that she is sueing for damages, and he has used the circuitboard Klon clone layouts, along with Crunchbox and other layouts from a guy who has a site called Mad Bean Pedals (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/index.html). As a result, Brian does not offer his Sunking Klone as anything more than a DIY PDF file.

This isn't to say that the JHS pedals aren't good sounding or anything, just that he tends to "heavily borrow" from the labors of others. And AFAIK, he has no arrangement with Finnegan whatsoever. Bill would never do anything like that, ever.

Regarding the "nothing will sound like a true Klon" statement, that is simply bunk. The story behind it is that Bill bought up ALL the old stock of some mystery germanium diode, and claims that no substitute will work and sound just like a real KC. it is bunk because enough folks have a/b'ed an original and their clone to verify if it is 1:1. When they can happily confirm that such is the case, they can sell the real deal for those stupid high prices that you see on the used market. It would be crazy not to, IMO.

Regarding Jim Campilongo using one - he actually responded HERE and said that it was mainly just used in the studio when recording Loose. It was more of a suggestion from the producer, to help and "process" some of the recorded tracks. Jim is the kind of guy who simply wouldn't mess with something like the KC when playing out live. Not a knock against the KC - he just doesn't need it for his sound.

IMO, the best part of the KC is the boost part of the circuit - none of the other parts really come into play unless you run the drive knob higher, and many KC users don't set it up that way. So you can actually seek out builders who have the boost ONLY from the KC.

It is also the kind of pedal that typically takes awhile (as in years) to really understand if its merits are worth it to the individual user, or not. It isn't something that (I think) you can make a quick impression decision about. It is one of the more rig-specific/application-specific pedals out there.

Bear in mind that a lot of what I have said is based on what I have learned over the years, in particular my comments about the JHS that everyone is currently familiar with. I have no issues with the guy, but wanted to be clear that I was NOT referring to his Klones in '09, or at least I was not aware that there were TWO guys with the same initials/company name/etc. If you dig anyone's pedal, that is really the bottom line.

I'm one of those few players that actually owned, gigged with and recorded with a "gold horsie" Klon Centaur, one of the originals purchased directly from Bill Finnegan in 1998.

These discussions need to keep the context of the late '90's in mind. The Klon was one of the first boutique pedals, before Youtube demo videos and many internet forums. I played mine for a couple of years - it was (and is) a great boost pedal. It was (and is) an average mild gain overdrive pedal. But it was a great alternative to anything being made by Boss, MXR, EH, DOD, etc. at the time.

Today, there are more than a few pedals that can do the same thing, both clones as well as original designs. But the Klon mystique continues (just like the TS808 and TS9 mystique discussed on another thread on this Forum). Klon has been out of production for a couple of years now, and the long-promised small box version is nowhere in sight. So, as stupid as the Ebay prices may seem to most of us, they are somewhat understandable.

I paid $239 for mine - the most I've ever paid for any pedal - and that was certainly high in the late '90's, too. I sold it a few years later for just under $400, not because I was looking to make a big score but because I wanted some other pedals and the going price for a Klon at that time made it possible.

The Klon Centaur - an original design by an innovative guy that was ahead of its time. And, just like every other pedal out there today, not for everyone. If Finnegan were back in production with his small box version, would I buy it - probably not.

It's not meant to be a gain heavy overdrive, it's very transparent

Sorry but I have to disagree. It's not a very transparent effect. It has a very upper, weird mid boost (nothing like a TS) combined with that very noticable 3D presence. It's very different. But that doesn't mean it's very good. JMO

And as far as the price..I bought mine a while ago. I vaguley remember it being around $300 shipped. At the time the Klon's were selling in the $600 - $800 range. Seemed like a deal as I'm not a collector.

I have no issues with the guy, but wanted to be clear that I was NOT referring to his Klones in '09, or at least I was not aware that there were TWO guys with the same initials/company name/etc. If you dig anyone's pedal, that is really the bottom line.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus. The Klone that was being discussed at that time, at least to the best of my knowledge, was the model that I now own. You made a general statement of what you expected. Right guy, wrong guy for me it doesn't matter now because the Klone I bought based on that discussion/statement turned out to be a dead-on, 1:1 clone. At least to my ears. I'm happy for that. So thanks.

Sorry but I have to disagree. It's not a very transparent effect. It has a very upper, weird mid boost (nothing like a TS) combined with that very noticable 3D presence. It's very different. But that doesn't mean it's very good.

Agree. Even at no gain settings, it adds some "texture" to your tone.

I have a 1:1 Klone and I find the following general statements from others to be absolutely true:

1. The gain sucks. I use it up to about 1 o'clock but not past that.
2. It's got lots of boost...but so do tons of other pedals on today's market
3. It is NOT transparent...it has a mid-hump. That's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just true. Besides, why would anyone want to pay good money for a pedal that sounds like it's not on?
4. It was kind of a 'breakthrough' back in the day, but not anymore.

IMHO it sounds a lot like a tube screamer. Not exactly of course, but same sort of principles. You know, cut a smidgeon of bass, boost some mids, and crank the volume...you get a nice boost that compliments a (insert Fender-style tube amp here).

Therefore, the prices these days are purely due to collectibility, not sonic goodness. Ever watch those Auction shows on TV? People pay big money for stuff for no particular reason other than they have to have it!

JMHO. YMMV.

Regarding the midboost, I heard someone say once that the Klon is great if you want everything you play to sound like AC/DC's "Back in Black" album (and that they didn't like it for that reason).

bad monkey=$20 used

OaZ-fGVBp_Q

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

I totally agree.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus. The Klone that was being discussed at that time, at least to the best of my knowledge, was the model that I now own. You made a general statement of what you expected. Right guy, wrong guy for me it doesn't matter now because the Klone I bought based on that discussion/statement turned out to be a dead-on, 1:1 clone. At least to my ears. I'm happy for that. So thanks.

I know - I was just trying to be clear, because I've gotten in BIG trouble in the past for critiqueing pedals made by "other builders," because I build them too. The problem was I was (and still am) an unofficial vendor, so the basic premise is that I should be considered a competitor with an axe to grind. But if you look at my very long history posting here, you will find that I have ALWAYS been that way.

I just need to clarify whenever it appears that I have what looks like an endorsement/criticism of ANY pedal by ANY manufacturer. IOW, I need to cover my own arse.

I used to put the "unofficial vendor" thing in a proviso with all my responses after getting my hand slapped, but:

1. My comments/criticisms are as a lover and user of pedals only.

and

2. It is virtually common knowledge that I am an unofficial vendor. I was thoroughly "outed" by vendors/fans of vendors that I felt threatened by my criticisms of.

So I KNOW you weren't trying to throw me under the bus - it's usually to the contrary. I just have to "tread carefully," and when my name pops up in reference to something from years past, I usually have to say something that elaborates on that, as well.

I appreciate the history lesson as much as the next guy, but this is really the best post in this thread.

Yeah my kids love that video too. They like the little girl in the beginning and the green box on the table. They like anything bright green, lizards, dirt bikes.. They're 6 and 8. :roll:

I personally don't hear that they sound the same. I even closed my eyes and I hear differences. I know we are splitting hairs but that's why the video was produced in the first place? Another thing I don't like about that video is (if you check my other post) he starts the test with the gain knob on the Klon at 10 o'clock, IMO, just out of the sweet spot. I like and use it at 8 - 9 1/2 on the gain, Volume 2 o'clock - maxed and tone 12 - 2 o'clock. Can't look over the importance of finding/setting up any pedal at it's sweet spot. We do with our amps? Pedals are no different. JMO

I will be the first to say it's not the best "gainy" OD pedal. Like another poster stated. "everything starts to sound like AC/DC's Back in Black" For that type of stuff I use a Tube Slammer (JRC4558D) by CMATMODS. It's the Holy Grail. But when I set it up to do what I use the Klone for - The CMATMODS TS sounds thin and flat.

Like .011 Guage stated it's not for everyone and it's more task specific. And the only reason they are so expensive is supply/demand. Not for it's untouchable tonal godness.

People pay crazy prices for other gimmick/vintage pedals, Lovepedal Plexi, DOD 250, original RAT, etc.. It's no biggie for me. YMMV tho..

Wow, thx guys, I didn't expect to learn so much about Klon.

I just have to "tread carefully," and when my name pops up in reference to something from years past, I usually have to say something that elaborates on that, as well.

Sorry but I just quoted you again! :lol: well not verbatim so I guess I'm ok. I'll try and refrain from that in the future. :lol::lol:

Wow, thx guys, I didn't expect to learn so much about Klon.

No biggie. Personally when I first saw the thread I did'nt think anybody was going to respond so I waited to put my 2 cents in. We usually don't like the Klon thing here because it always goes in the same direction. But I guess we all have some extra time on our hands and that's why we're here. Peace

These discussions need to keep the context of the late '90's in mind. The Klon was one of the first boutique pedals, before Youtube demo videos and many internet forums...

So very true. It's easy to forget the "days of few options," when it was really only KC, Fulltone, Prescription Electronics, Vex, WHE, and maybe a handful of others. Those guys basically were the only ones that the masses had access to, if their pockets were deep enough.

Today, there are more than a few pedals that can do the same thing, both clones as well as original designs.

This is something I've had mulling around in my head for a few years now. I think I've come to the conclusion that in some instances, the KC has been surpassed, and for pennies on the dollar. What's not to like about that?

What a lot of folks don't realize is that Bill had the KC "designed by committee," and then he would tell them (the group of designers) what he wanted altered. While it is a good design overall, one of the designers came forward and revealed that certain aspects of the design would always be a compromise, because Bill couldn't have everything that he was asking of them. IOW, they basically pushed the design as far as they could, and keep Bill satisfied in the process.

The other thing that is not clearly apparent is that once the KC was accurately replicated, it was possible for bright minds to figure out ways to alter/augment/simplify its design. Trust me - no pedal is the be all/end all for all eternity. Even guys like Alf Hermida are OTR stating that the Zendrive is nothing more than a step in OD evolution.

...These "bright minds" have already figured out how to get the KC to run at 9VDC without compromising the sound at all. That is REALLY significant, but it was something that Bill probably would never have agreed to or allowed. Too bad, because it would have eliminated the funky D.C. jack that a lot of folks never liked.

Klon has been out of production for a couple of years now, and the long-promised small box version is nowhere in sight.

That's because Bill simply won't compromise on how so many things with the KC has to be. The pots in the big one are super high quality, and IDK if he will ever find something in a compact form that he will accept. The buffered bypass was no accident either - it allows for a much more rugged DPDT footswitch to be used. I think (but don't know) that Bill just really wanted it to be like the Polk Audio equivalent of a dirt box. Even having those enclosures made cost a fortune and took much more time than boxes that don't require custom fabrication.

The Klon Centaur - an original design by an innovative guy that was ahead of its time. And, just like every other pedal out there today, not for everyone. If Finnegan were back in production with his small box version, would I buy it - probably not.

It might have been eclipsed, but just the same I suggest that the curious give one a whirl, even if it is a Klone that might not be 1:1. Sometimes things don't need to evolve any further for the user to have found the pedal of their dreams. And we've mentioned the psychoacoustic principle in other threads - it is possible to hear something that no other pedal can provide, whether you are "truly hearing it," or not.

The best thing about the Klon Centaur is it's case, that is truly awesome. I wish I could afford to get something like that made for the pedal I build for myself. I'm sick of Hammond enclosures.

As for the rest of the pedal it's good, but I've played better. I'd still take a good Rangemaster type as a boost and tube overdrive for dirt, so as far as I'm concerned it's a bit redundant.

I'm just annoyed I didn't buy one at retail when they were still available because I thought it was overpriced. Looking back that was a stupid move. Even more stupid was listening to Bill Finnegan when he said to just wait for the cheap version of the Klon to go into production.

I bought my Klon new about 10 years ago when prices were reasonable, and I love it. I leave the gain off and the volume up, using it more as a boost than an OD. I agree that turning the gain up doesn't do much.

I've tried some Klon clones that were OK. I'd like to check out the JHS. I also tried a Bad Monkey and the Zoom Power Drive. I don't think either is remotely similar to a Klon, although they're not bad pedals.

My favorite OD pedal is the Barber Custom Cool, which is also on my board. Using either the Klon , the Barber, or both gives me all the options I need.

I recognize that many people love to hate the Klon, which is kind of a mystery to me. It's just a pedal.

Ain't no metal box of parts worth $1000..............sorry.
After around $250,it's just snake oil.

I don't buy Finnegan's diode story for a minute.
Apparently the Klon is going into some sort of
commercial production, not unlike Way Huge
being produced by Dunlop.

So, what will they do when they run out of magic diodes
in the commercial run? Just stop? I doubt it. Who'd sign to
an agreement like that?

Anyway, those of us with 1:1 or original Klons know the truth.
They aren't THAT special. They're good, but these days you can get
better for less. Machine Head Pedals, Barber and a few others are making pedals far cooler than a Klon. I'd sell my Klone, but would NOT part with my V1 Blues Breaker for anything.

Hotrodkid, the differences from that clip are certainly there, I won't argue that, but the % difference between the 2 pedals, sonically, is about the percentage of cost difference that the bad monkey is. Ie: they sound about 1% different, and the bm costs about 1% of the klon.

Obviously it isn't the pedal for me. I can see that there's a place for it in the market...I mean, somebody has to make the most expensive pedal, right?

FWIW here' a video (one of many) comparing a real klon and a klone

ne9tIUeyxSk

i'm building a madbean sunking right now, doing it mostly for the challenge as much as to get the tone, and actually i'd be really happy if it can make everything sound like ac/dc, as well as other stuff

here's a video of a guy testing different diodes in a klone as well

XoH1sBRNRC0

"and actually i'd be really happy if it can make everything sound like ac/dc"

Me too!

Recently I went and saw this ole guy play.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/IlapU2/Music/DSC_8833.jpg

He did pretty good:cool::cool::cool:

I snapped a pic of his board.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/IlapU2/Music/DSC_8836.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/IlapU2/Music/DSC_8789.jpg

He seemed to use that Klon pretty good.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

DW

Warren Haynes likes his Klon too.

Hotrodkid, the differences from that clip are certainly there, I won't argue that, but the % difference between the 2 pedals, sonically, is about the percentage of cost difference that the bad monkey is. Ie: they sound about 1% different, and the bm costs about 1% of the klon.

Obviously it isn't the pedal for me. I can see that there's a place for it in the market...I mean, somebody has to make the most expensive pedal, right?

Actually dude I regreted that post after I sent it. That's why I really dislike this argument. It was better when I did not own the clone and before I played an original. All of this was meaningless to me back then.

I think the Klon Centuar by itself is not as intriguing as the debates it sparks.

You certainly have that right hrk.

I think the Klon Centaur by itself is not as intriguing as the debates it sparks.

Now THAT right there is worth quoting, and remembering!

Warren Haynes likes his Klon too.

I read about Warren's use of pedals, and I have to say that with him it is a bit atypical.

I say that because with the Allman Bros, he uses no pedals at all. And he started using them with Gov't Mule more out of necessity, to "fill out the sound with a live show of a band with only one guitarist," or something to that effect.

The truth be told, I have yet to hear of a single famous guitarist who was so hooked on the thing that he (or she) would demand to be buried with it.

I see that picture of JB above, and it's a similar thing. I remember a picture of his "pedalboard" a few years back, and it was a Boss flanger. :lol: And I recall a recent interview with him (this last spring or so), and he said that really all he needs any longer are a bunch of tweed champs. The Marshalls and such just allow for some more flexibility in some venues, but JB could really make any gear work. Not to say that the KC doesn't make him sound better...

Sorry if this has already been said in this thread.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the Klon is a great pedal.

If you have one then you seem to have an inflation proof investment.

On ebay you can literally see the price go up month by month.

Horsey types are now about £1000 UK

Well. after this great debate I played my JHS Klone for several hours. I ran it as a boost (which I have not used it for in a while) a heavy OD (which I never do) and low gain (as I usually do)

The verdict is: It ain't going anywhere. I don't care if someday the Horsie Klon's are selling for $10,000 and my JHS Klone Clown :lol: is only worth $10. I'll love it even more. It's a good quality (boutique)/very different sounding pedal that cost me what a lot of other boutique pedals are selling for. Plus, it's half the size of an original, which means I can fit more toys on my board. :wink:

Btw, I saw a JHS Klone on ebay a few days ago for $225 and it did not sell. So it appears that the whole Klon thing is just about the money which is a shame because it really is a "good" solid pedal.

Anyways, I highly recommend the JHS. While it might not make all your little Klon dreams come true, I guarantee you will not say it sounds terrible. And it will grow on you over time too.

225 for any boutique pedal isn't really unreasonable. 1000-1500, or even up to 2000 or whatever the exchange on 1kgbp is, is unreasonable. Especially when you can duplicate the sound so closely.
Use that thing more, hrk.

I see that picture of JB above, and it's a similar thing. I remember a picture of his "pedalboard" a few years back, and it was a Boss flanger. :lol:

They had that setup in either Guitar Player or Guitar World a few years ago. I still have it somewhere.

i thought the secret to the Klon was that it contained clippings of chuck norris' beard...

225 for any boutique pedal isn't really unreasonable.

It was used but like new condition w/the box. BIN $225. Said he needed Christmas cash.

I paid about $300 for mine. His had a very cool silver sparkle finish that I like better than mine which is a sparkle light blue.

Anyways, I was surprised it didn't sell. Maybe he will relist it on an auction format. It appears ebay guys don't like BIN listings in this economy.

I paid about $300 for mine. His had a very cool silver sparkle finish that I like better than mine which is a sparkle light blue.


I paid a little bit over 300 for my brand new Klon in very late 2009. I'd hate to buy a clone that costs almost as much.

here's a video of a guy testing different diodes in a klone as well

And you can't tell much of a difference, can you? I can't, at least not by such a random test, with the knobs set all over the place...

...But that in itself reveals that you can "compensate for any diode differences" by adjusting the knobs.

Some would argue that YouTube won't reveal any differences, and I agree 100%. But playing on stage will do very much the same thing, maybe even moreso. So unless you want to relegate the pedal to solo playing in a super quiet environment, it's a moot point, IMO.

By extension of that, there's really no need to go hunting for crazy unobtanium diodes. I think the Schottky BAT's sound as good as any of the others, and they aren't even germanium!

I paid a little bit over 300 for my brand new Klon in very late 2009. I'd hate to buy a clone that costs almost as much.

You're lucky. You don't have to. You have the real one. And it's just amazing how much you're pedal is worth today (4X+)

For me I didn't become interested until the prices started to already climb (600+ - 800) so I took a shot and was promised a 1:1 clone for $300. Maybe I should of dished out 3-4 hundred more fro the real deal but 250-300 for any pedal is kind of my threshold. Even though I like some of the Love Pedal and Mad Professsor HW stuff it was always out of my range.

I like the JHS Klone for it's sound. It does not have the whole "Klon vibe". But in a blind test, 9 out of 10 Dentist preferred it.

I have a silver Klon that I bought before the prices went out. I do not use it as much now as I use to. I am glad I have it but, to many points made here, there are other pedals out there that will do the job.

$600-800? Spending that kinda money for a pedal is insane. You could probably Redd Volkaert over for a few private lessons for that kinda dough. Ha.

for some people, $1000 isn't a lot of money.

a Klon is obviously worth $800 or $900 because people will pay that much.
if Finnegan ever releases a new version the price may drop, but I doubt it.

I have a silver no-horsie. Great pedal. Not much to add there.
Coolest pedal enclosure ever, too.

A collection of parts totaling about 10 bucks is not worth a grand no matter how cool the enclosure happens to be. The Klon is a fashion statement of your wealth, but not your value as a player.

A collection of parts totaling about 10 bucks...

In defense of the original KC, that is not very accurate. The pots are not standard quality "off-the-shelf" types, and had to be custom ordered. That meant paying through the nose for shipping as well, or having to whine to a supplier to procure enough of them to make it worth the trouble. And - the drive/gain pot is a dual/ganged type that isn't common for almost any application, and rarely found in stompbox designs.

...The KC uses a charge pump to internally push the voltage up to ~18VDC. While it isn't the most expensive component on the planet, it will drive up your bill of materials cost appreciably. There's also more than one op amp, a heavy duty stomp switch that is double or triple the cost of what is in other similar pedals, and roughly "triple the components count," because the KC "splits" the signal 3 ways, and then "sums" them back together again near the end of the circuit.

Finnegan also insisted on metallized poly caps and such, back in a time when you didn't find really anyone else doing that. To this day, the majority of pedal builders like Fulltone and even some new ones like Catalinbread tend to use the same "cheap Xicon greenies" that you will find in something like a Dano Fab Tone, or are the equivalent to what comes in a stock Boss pedal. Do they sound better? That can be argued one way or the other, but the bottom line is Finnegan chose 30 cent caps over 2 cent caps.

The enclosure was only one of many expensive things that drove the price as high as it did. Mad Bean pedals has a free DIY layout for a Klone called the Sunking. Just download it and source the parts from the bill of materials. You will find that the price comes out to be considerably more than $10, especially when you add in the enclosure, knobs, D.C. jack, in and out jacks, footswitch, and other things (LED & bezel, etc.).

I don't have any stake in defending Finnegan, but I do know that lots of pieces of the original KC's drove the prices sky high, or at least higher than $10.

And - the drive/gain pot is a dual/ganged type that isn't common for almost any application, and rarely found in stompbox designs.

.011 Guage can you explain this ^ in a little more detail?

Does that have anything to do with the fact that when I bring my gain knob on my JHS Klone up (from off) after a fraction of a turn the tone changes very quickly. It's like a switch flicks on and the presence comes into play. None of my other pedals do that. Thanks.

A collection of parts totaling about 10 bucks is not worth a grand no matter how cool the enclosure happens to be. The Klon is a fashion statement of your wealth, but not your value as a player.

I don't think anyone is arguing that having a Klon makes you a better guitar player. It's a tool like many others; some people prefer one tool, some prefer another.

and something is worth a grand if someone will pay a grand for it.
is that ridiculous? sure.
is anyone likely to lose money on a Klon they buy now if they sell it in a year? I doubt it.

.011 Guage can you explain this ^ in a little more detail?

Does that have anything to do with the fact that when I bring my gain knob on my JHS Klone up (from off) after a fraction of a turn the tone changes very quickly. It's like a switch flicks on and the presence comes into play. None of my other pedals do that. Thanks.

I'm looking at the schematic and trying to think of a way to explain this that isn't all pedal techie speak...

Basically, after the buffer, the signal gets "split" 3 ways in the KC, with what basically ends up being a "signal path" for treble, midrange, and bass. That is a gross oversimplification, but it will have to do. It was mainly done in an effort to only allow for distortion at a certain frequency range - you want to pass on certain frequencies undistorted for things to sound more pleasing. THAT principle is not new - the Crowther Hot Cake does exactly that - the bass does not clip at all (until a certain voltage gain is exceeded, which is why it gets "transformed into a fuzz" at max gain).

Okay. Keeping up with that? So, the bigger trick when you split signals is summing them up so that they are:

1. "balanced," relative to one another

2. in phase with each other

...You are already familiar with some of this if you have ever owned an amp with a presence control - it merely provides a way to adjust what is called a "feedback loop" that tightens up the signal, and usually provides more "separation" between the lows and highs until a certain amount of gain is achieved - the lack of this negative feedback is why amps like the tweed Deluxe start breaking up so early (although there are other reasons for it).

In the case of the Klon, the gain relative to these two "frequency bands" goes up "simultaneously" from one knob - it is literally two potentiometers on one shaft. You are probably witnessing it with the KC causing a "presence shift" because it uses what is called a "linear taper" - most OD pedals use either a log taper (or what is called "audio taper), or "reverse log," because a linear increase with amplified audio usually doesn't give a consistent sweep. But it isn't a hard and fast rule, especially since the KC splits the signal.

I also mentioned that the KC was "designed by committee." It could have been one of the compromises to use the linear taper to try and get the best "blend" of the other frequency bands, because there are some unorthodox component values and arrangements.

The KC also has an odd arrangement of putting the boost and "treble gain" stages after the signals are summed up again. These two stages run at ~18VDC internally, and are not intended to add any appreciable distortion. In other words, the treble circuit is only there to "restore" what isn't properly augmented by the drive stages. It is more common in high end audio, and you see it in pedals like the Tech 21 stuff, that actually put an "active treble and bass" control after the actual drive portions.

It is really an "unorthodox" design for a pedal circuit. A dual ganged pot typically only exists for things like stereo signals, where you obviously need a consistent raise in gain for more than one signal.

I guess the best analogy I can give is the drive pot in the Boss SD-1, which is also a linear taper. If you've ever noticed, it really doesn't do much beyond 12:00 or 1:00.

I don't know if ANY of that makes sense, but I gave it a shot. :razz:

In the case of the Klon, the gain relative to these two "frequency bands" goes up "simultaneously" from one knob - it is literally two potentiometers on one shaft. You are probably witnessing it with the KC causing a "presence shift" because it uses what is called a "linear taper" - most OD pedals use either a log taper (or what is called "audio taper), or "reverse log," because a linear increase with amplified audio usually doesn't give a consistent sweep. But it isn't a hard and fast rule, especially since the KC splits the signal.

I guess the best analogy I can give is the drive pot in the Boss SD-1, which is also a linear taper. If you've ever noticed, it really doesn't do much beyond 12:00 or 1:00.

Thanks, and it makes perfect sense. Explains why the volume knob is not that sensitive like a TS. Anyways, it's works well, even if it was by true intentions or default.

Another thing is some say it is a transparent OD, but I disagree. Way too many upper mids and presence for that. But with the gain pot off and for about another slight turn, it can be pretty transparent. Almost flat.

I also noticed that after that it is a consistent sweep up until around ten o'clock where more gain is introduced. I found the sweet spots for clean around 8 - 9 1/2 o'clock. - For OD between 1 - 2 o'clock.

Made me think.. For a pedal with a simple apperance (three knobs), it's not that simple of a design nor does it lack versatility within those three knobs.

Thanks for the response.

I say this with kindness:

You all need to get out more.

the endless micro discussion of this pedal, no matter HOW good it is, is taking your focus away from making music.

just sayin'

I say this with kindness:

You all need to get out more.

the endless micro discussion of this pedal, no matter HOW good it is, is taking your focus away from making music.


I'm not defending anyone, but why do you assume that making music is the most important thing for everyone?

Another thing is some say it is a transparent OD, but I disagree. Way too many upper mids and presence for that. But with the gain pot off and for about another slight turn, it can be pretty transparent. Almost flat.

The circuit design only allows for it to be pretty flat with the gain at zero. The effect of most of the signal splitting is supposed to be more akin to a unity gain buffer (with gain at zero), not unlike the Crowther Hot Cake when it is in bypass - the gain stage is literally turned into a buffer instead of actually bypassing anything. At least that is how the circuit design appears to me, and appears to be intentional. The fact that the buffer is still active even when the pedal is "off" kind of reinforces that.

...But with the gain at zero and the KC on, not "all gain" is at zero:

The booster stage and "treble gain" fall after any overdrive circuit, and the boost is "hardwired" - the gain knob has no effect on it at all. So it is boosting the same "amount" with the gain knob full up or at zero. Only the output control will vary the level of the...er...output.

It is hard to believe that with the KC, all of the OD/distortion/clipping occurs at just one gain stage like many other dirt pedals, despite all its complexity. It has a pair of dual op amps for 4 stages total, and the other 3 are the input buffer, the fixed boost, and then the treble circuit.

It would be neat to one day know about the team that Finnegan hired to design the KC, and what kind of other work they did (i.e. "official titles). There are a lot of hi-fi audio characteristics to its design, almost like some of the team members had little or no experience with guitar effects.

I say this with kindness:

You all need to get out more.

the endless micro discussion of this pedal, no matter HOW good it is, is taking your focus away from making music.

just sayin'

It's my JOB that's taking my focus away from making music - I only post from work. :lol:

i thought the secret to the Klon was that it contained clippings of chuck norris' beard

Now that explanation I understand.

I say this with kindness:

You all need to get out more.

the endless micro discussion of this pedal, no matter HOW good it is, is taking your focus away from making music.

just sayin'

I was hurt at work, had spinal surgery on October 20th. I have the bone from a dead man in me now. Still recovering. This forum has been my only life line to music during this period. Not to mention keeping my sanity intact.

When I make a full recovery I will be out gigging again and my posting here will drop some. But for now this will have to do. But things could be worst.

FWIW, This thread received quite a lot of views, so somebody is interested.

I was hurt at work, had spinal surgery on October 20th. I have the bone from a dead man in me now. Still recovering. This forum has been my only life line to music during this period. Not to mention keeping my sanity intact.


Hope you make a full recovery!

Down here the bone you got is also a major component of the blues mojo.
I had one made one time and RUINED my chicken picking so I went to Nashville and got a chicken foot with the proper blessin on it and was good to go again. :wink:

the Klon has been shown to cure intractable pain. :lol:

get well soon!


I was hurt at work, had spinal surgery on October 20th. I have the bone from a dead man in me now. Still recovering. This forum has been my only life line to music during this period. Not to mention keeping my sanity intact.

When I make a full recovery I will be out gigging again and my posting here will drop some. But for now this will have to do. But things could be worst.

FWIW, This thread received quite a lot of views, so somebody is interested.

Hope you make a full recovery!

the Klon has been shown to cure intractable pain. :lol:

get well soon!


Thanks guys. The good thing is a few weeks ago I started feeling well enough to sit with the guitar for 20-30 mintutes a day. Trying to work up to an hour.

I have also learned a ton of new songs, mostly newer radio pop/dance stuff which I'm always finding an excuse not to to do. But I gotta give the audience what they want and the newer stuff goes over very well at some of the places.

Back to the Klon. I always wondered that if Bill released an affordable reissiue of it..

1) What would be a good price? (I think it was $279 shipped in 1995)
2) Would it sell?
3) Would it hurt or help the market for the original ones?

Maybe never happen, just a few thoughts.

I always wondered that if Bill released an affordable reissiue of it..

1) What would be a good price? (I think it was $279 shipped in 1995)
2) Would it sell?
3) Would it hurt or help the market for the original ones?

Maybe never happen, just a few thoughts.

An anonymous pedal builder who was consulted for the redesign said that they were really urging Bill to forgo with all of the things that caused kinks with production or extreme overhead with the original. But it sounded like he really had his doubt that there would be much compromising.

...So good price? I doubt it, especially relative to all the Klones that are out there now. Would it sell? Of course. There will always be doubters who are convinced that nothing can be replicated and only the real deal will do. Lots of these folks also probably can't afford the V1's, or it is impractical to have something that big on a congested pedalboard.

But aside from the "must have the real McCoy crowd," I don't think it will be competitive versus Klones, nor will it probably also be competitive versus designs that are much newer than the KC, which (for better or worse) has been eclipsed by some pedals (this is what others have decided, and not me). I'd be tempted to say that with all the big buzz currently being the "amp in a box" thing, the Dumble-sounding and Ecstacy-sounding (and ________-sounding) pedals are the current trend.

I don't think a V2 KC would hurt the V1 market at all, not one bit. Just look at other RI pedals and the market vs. the original. Even if the RI is confirmed to match exactly, some folks will still swear up and down that it doesn't sound the same. There are people who claim that with the Aqua Puss, and even Tripps has said they are the same, IIRC.

But the more I think about it, the more I think a V2 KC isn't going to happen. Finnegan still wants the V2 to be like the Ferrari of OD pedals, but concessions will have to be made to get that thing to fit in a smaller enclosure. If it is going to be mass produced, he can't have the same quality of pots and footswitch, period. If the circuit will be SMT to make it all fit, then the "necessary mojo diodes" won't be in there, either. Also, they can't be RoHS if they are old stock germanium, so that is another production issue.

There are so many things that would have to change with the V2 to eliminate the issues with the V1 that I just can't imagine Finnegan authorizing even a third of them. Alternatively, if he did make a deal with a manufacturer, I could see him getting cold feet and pulling out. Lastly, if the circuit was "improved again," Bill is probably going to want to goop it like the V1's. Good luck doing that with mass production. And on something like the Suhr Riot, the goop came right off with relative ease, so why bother?

But there's no telling unless it actually happens. But it's fun to speculate just based on things we have an idea about.

to put the price in perspective, I got a postcard from Lovetone in the mid 1990s and at that time all thier pedals were $90 each. (I think they only had 4 then) I meant to order one but when I moved cross country I lost the card.

Now they get about $500 on the Ebays. Not Klon prices but still a good penny for what they are.

to put the price in perspective, I got a postcard from Lovetone in the mid 1990s and at that time all thier pedals were $90 each. (I think they only had 4 then) I meant to order one but when I moved cross country I lost the card.

Now they get about $500 on the Ebays. Not Klon prices but still a good penny for what they are.

I remember those pedals, and those prices. Even though they were too "out there" for me, I still wanted to get at least two of them. Since they were "out there," I passed on it, figuring I could grab them somewhere down the road, and probably used for less...:sad:

A Big Cheese DIY kit is available for cheap, but I suppose it is irrelevant in the same way that a Klone might be irrelevant. The truth be told, folks have come up with LOTS of tweaks for the BC that you obviously would not want to do to the real deal, but the Lovetones were a little too "out there" to have a longstanding appeal (beyond collecting) to make them popular as "continual designs" from others.

But yeah - there were more "boutique companies" in the 90's than most of us probably remember. Even Kendrick and others gave it a whack with stuff like the Buffalo Pfuz. And I kind of lumped in mass production companies on occasion, like Tech 21 when they came out with the XXL, because it really sounded different, and my local stores didn't carry their stuff. Bixonic Expandora - same thing.

Jeff Beck tells a story of how he bought on payments an echoplex,(when he was still in The Yardbirds) but he couldnt even make the first payment so he had to give it up. Did it hurt his career? um, no.

Just sayin' Jeff Beck dont need $500 pedals. (I do though)

Just sayin' Jeff Beck dont need $500 pedals. (I do though)

How do I make my wife buy into that argument? :rolleyes:

And you can't tell much of a difference, can you? I can't, at least not by such a random test, with the knobs set all over the place...

...But that in itself reveals that you can "compensate for any diode differences" by adjusting the knobs.

Some would argue that YouTube won't reveal any differences, and I agree 100%. But playing on stage will do very much the same thing, maybe even moreso. So unless you want to relegate the pedal to solo playing in a super quiet environment, it's a moot point, IMO.

By extension of that, there's really no need to go hunting for crazy unobtanium diodes. I think the Schottky BAT's sound as good as any of the others, and they aren't even germanium!

i think between the first and the last ones there is a noticeable difference but not really otherwise. i bought a couple different ones to try myself, i'll probably stick some LEDs in to just to see what happens. i've seen things where people mix 2 different clipping diodes as well, does that actually have any effect?

I have two of them. The first I bought when I worked in a small guitar shop in Boston circa 1994 and Bill used to bring them into sell.

IIRC it cost me $240.00, which at the time was a fortune both for me and a pedal. Mine is a low serial number (under 30) so I could probably get a lot of money for it.

The second one is a silver one I got for free through a trade situation.

If you have never tried one it's easy to diss it, and honestly I would not pay $1800 for one. However, I can tell you that I wouldn't sell either of mine for $1000 because I would miss them too much.

It's kind of hard to describe what it does. It's not really a great overdrive as a dirt box but it does give you some sort of edge or presence that I really, really like.

Anyone who knows Bill will tell you he's a nice guy and he's not selling them for a stupid price or giving them to rock stars but a lot of people - from Keith Richards, Jeff Beck, Joe Perry, etc... are using them so he did something right.

I have not heard Dunlop will be making them. If it's true that's great.