Band Member Conflicts

In 1998 a co-worker convinced our boss to let her 14-year-old daughter work part-time answering phones and helping in the office.

She was outstanding and quickly gained everybody's respect.
She wanted to learn how to play ROCK guitar.
I steered her towards a decent Music store and with the money she earned working for us bought a Squier Strat, a 15 watt Frontman amp and started taking lessons.
Not the greatest guitarist by a long shot, but she had a me-do-it attitude you couldn't help but admire. I could see it in her face, when she was playing, everything was alright. It gave her a sense of identity and a feeling of having something that nobody could take away.

A couple of days before her 15th Birthday she died at the hands of a coward who literally left her for dead with a broken neck in a hit-and-run.

Her Mother buried her with the guitar she loved so much.

Stricken with grief and unable to stop crying she handed her amp to me and said "Just take it, I can't deal with this."

Fast forward several years.

I have a 'friend' and band-mate who moved from out-of-state after all of this happened and never knew her.
He is a fine guitarist and someone who has helped many, many, people so many times.

The problem: he always refers to the Frontman as "Dead-Girl's amp".
He knows that pisses it me off when he does it, thinks its funny or something.

For a while, he got the picture and stopped doing it.
This morning I get a text from him; could I please bring "Dead Girl's amp" to practice?
We are doing a low-volume, living room, practice at the Drummers house tonight. We have practiced this way before many times, very productive, but I digress.

He and I have loaned each other equipment soooo many times over the years I can't count. Use my amp? no problem.

Dredging-up "Dead-Girl's amp", HUGE.
It brings back a lot of pain when he does that. And I've told him so many times.
Marginalizing her all too short stay on Earth rubs me the wrong way.

I fired-off an incendiary reply that would only end-up as ****** if I quoted it here.

Practice tonight will be awkward to say the least.

PS - The hit-and-run driver served less than 7 years for his crime.

I am well aware every day in our society that crass awful comments are now normal. The first use, while unthinkable for just about any person with a heart, might not be a surprise. But after the first time you talked with him about it he is an incredibly sick person to use that phrase ever again in any company.

Maybe have him come by the mothers house to get the amp face to face.

Practice tonight will be awkward to say the least.I wouldn't care about how akward it could get.
you are serious about it and it needs to be addressed once and for all.

some folks just don't realize what kind of a hurtful mouth they exhibit.
reminds me of Charlie Watts' story of sucker punching Mick Jagger after being called 'His drummer boy'.
he was dead serious about it too.

there is the saying that sticks & stones can hurt my bones....
but if you can't brush it of like that it just doesn't apply.

I'd explain that [insert girl's actual name] would probably enjoy the idea that her amp was referred to as "[insert girl's actual name]'s Amp" (say "Sandy's Amp" for example) as a measure of respect.

Then make it clear that since you are the caretaker of this item, you think everone moving forward should refer to it that way.

If he doesn't "get it" after that, well he's a hopeless neanderthal and should respectflully have no business touching or disrespecting the amp.

Wow. Given the background you've provided, it sounds like either your guitar player doesn't like you, or he's a little dense and needs more clarification. How long have you been playing with him?

I'd say he's already passed the audition for Chief Excretory Orifice Officer. Doing as he is doing, IMO, would be enough for me to jettison him permanently. I wouldn't even explain anything to him (there's no point), I'd just break off contact. No doubt he would be bewildered that anyone could be offended by his remarks.

Not often that someone does me that way, but if it happens I tell them about it once. After that, I'm done with them.

I would tell "your friend" where he could go and what he could do when he gets there. I have severed "friendships" and walked out on bands for less reason than this. Your call though.

That guy is a total douche. Maybe you should teach him a lesson by being disrespectful to him in some embarrassing way. Whatever you do, I wouldn't let him be in the same room with that amp, and let Karma handle the rest.

I would tell "your friend" where he could go and what he could do when he gets there. I have severed "friendships" and walked out on bands for less reason than this. Your call though.

Some relationships are not worth preserving. You asked for opinions: I'd have decided long ago not to associate with this cretin.

drop this guy....it's a proven fact there are many more horse's a$$es than there are horses....

i have trouble understanding how ANYone could be so insensitive...

Well....there's always one in a band marriage.
Unfortunately, I was the one in several situations to call someone on their behavior during my live band days....it's not fun but that's irrelevant.
Not only is the amp reference unfunny and tasteless it's woefully immature to keep using it knowing it can piss someone off. (as it would me also).

Me...I'm with bender-freak...if the offender refuses to change his ways drop him.
The recurring behavior also tells us of possible future character problems that may not be overt at this time but will be manifested later.

If it bothered me as much and he didn't leave...I'd leave.
As I stated in a similar thread I will not baby sit adults or put up with emotional interplay like this in any band endeavor.

Judgment call on your part.
Good luck at practice.

That's my take on it......carry on.

I've put my foot in my mouth before with inappropriate comments, but the moment it's been pointed out to me I'm ready to apologize, cap in hand.

The fact that someone would CONTINUE to say that sort of thing astounds me. And in fact, to come up with that name he'd have to have known the story...no reasonable human being who isn't A) the world's biggest douchebag or B) a sociopath could come up with that name knowing the story.

Tells you a lot about this guy.

I would just say "Hey! I thought we has the issue of the amp comment settled but apparently not!" and make absolutely sure he understood that he was not to say it again.

Then if he said it again.................................

This guy is highly messed up. I can easily vote with those who say cut it off. However, there is a solution, although time would have to heal. Why not say that you have decided to not make the amp available to him anymore, under any circumstances.

Even in the abstract, the concept of a dead girl's amp is sickening and bizarre, with the emphasis on sickening.

Is beating the **** out of him not on the table?

It sounds like he finds the fact that the amp has a tragic history behind it somewhat romantic, but that doesn't excuse his insensitivity towards your feelings.

If you want to preserve the relationship (and it would be entirely understandable if you didn't), I would suggest this: Buy a cheap 15W practice amp off Craigslist. You can get them for $20 - $50 in almost any town, especially shortly after Christmas. Give it to him to keep, with the understanding that he NEVER even bring up that Frontman amp around you again.

Of all the things i can think of to make a joke out of, the death of a little girl would not be one of them

Your friends' Cranial Rectal Inversion would not be met with as much tact as you are showing....

I would take any labels off of the amp that exist and replace them with her name.... I would place a copy of her Obituary in the amp itself along with her picture

Before he uses the amp next, i would hand him the obit and her pic and then ask him what he thinks: Would she let him use her amp?

If he doesn't get it, He would have 2 simple choices: Leave without a problem, or limp out with one

I never mess with the deceased.... Call it superstition or whatever, it's just bad juju

Over the years I've been in bands with a couple of people who had that quality: they liked to say stuff that they knew was offensive to another person in the band. Similar to what you're talking about, for example one guy in the band was religious, so the other guy would say really offensive stuff about Jesus.

It doesn't even matter what the guy said - the important point is that he would go out of his way to intentionally offend someone over and over. A trait that only a true douche would exhibit.

Both the guys I knew who had this quality turned out to be insufferable douches who we eventually couldn't get rid of fast enough, even though one of them at least was super talented. Still, they had to go.

Just awful. I have no advice. I'd hate to think of what I would have
Done to this guy if I was in your shoes. It hurts my heart just to hear the story. Awful.

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

Thank all of you for speaking your minds.

The conflict is in me too because he and I have been pretty close these last 12 years.

I put it to him like this: "Dead Girl's Amp" is something I would never say to somebody I considered a friend.
I wish you could see what an ass you look like when you say it.

Our Drummer (he had no idea what was going on between me and the Guitar player) is a Surgical Nurse at the Hospitals Cardiac Ward.
I described to him in the details of her lying in that car with her neck broken. Her head was stuffed between the dash and fire wall by the heater core.
For hours. Nobody around.
Sick.

She was alive when they found her. The EMT's were able to talk to her, but she had no feeling in her body.
She was life-flighted to the Hospital where she lost consciousness. Severe Brain Damage and her severed Spinal Cord did the rest. Her Mother had to pull the plug on her own Daughter a few hours later.

I made it clear the there won't be one more time.

~ ST

I don't care how close you feel you and he have been over the last 12 years, he has NO respect for you.

I'd make it abundantly clear he will never utter that phrase again. If he does, cold-**** the bastard...he richly deserves it.

Is beating the **** out of him not on the table?

You could use the amp. The cases on those are pretty sturdy.

What a ****head.

why don't you break it over his stupid head...

I wouldn't care if he could play like Chet or Jimi. I'd let him know that the next time he is in my presence, he'd be smart to exit quickly. And I'd follow up too. Did he say just like said? He didn't say "and bring the amp that belonged to.......that girl......that girl that ......uh......that...died?"
If he said it like I read it, he would be very aware that he and I were finished.

Hoo boy, I read this one and had tears in my eyes a couple of times. I have a friend, an EX paramedic, pensioned off in his 40's because he had simply seen and dealt with too much.

I don't understand people that laugh at the car crashing into the bus stand full of people, or walk silently past a bleeding moaning stranger. Cheer a drunken brawl or lay odds on the winner. I have a girl friend, she recently started on the 'suicide is cowardly' thing. I won't explain the whys or my life story and why I disagree. Suffice to say she will never forget the two minutes that followed that statement. Maybe she'll even think on it next time it comes up.

If your 'friend' cannot get it, make a point of explaining it and that this is the line in the sand. One more crack or smart remark and it ends a long relationship. Just maybe he'll think...Maybe.

The Amp, I think I'd give it to a charity like choir of hard knocks or similar and tell him why.

Kristina

I'd say he's already passed the audition for Chief Excretory Orifice Officer. Doing as he is doing, IMO, would be enough for me to jettison him permanently. I wouldn't even explain anything to him (there's no point), I'd just break off contact. No doubt he would be bewildered that anyone could be offended by his remarks.


+1

I made it clear the there won't be one more time.

~ ST

Hey ST, I think the patience you have with this bandmate shows you are a kind soul who wants to give people chances to change their ways.

I wouldn't be able to, given the background story. And I would be pretty darn sure that guy wouldn't EVER lay his hands on that amp again. EVER.

(not knowing you two at all, mind)

I have sacked guys in my bands for less, once even during a gig, I sacked a drummer after he pointed his sticks at me on stage. The sticks would have been painfull to remove if Bassist and singer hadn`t stopped me.
Look for another guitarist.

I have sacked guys in my bands for less, once even during a gig, I sacked a drummer after he pointed his sticks at me on stage. The sticks would have been painfull to remove if Bassist and singer hadn`t stopped me.
Look for another guitarist.

Ha!

It sounds like it would be a bit of an over-reaction on paper but I should imagine there was a backstory to that. Always fun when band tensions boil over...

Ha!

It sounds like it would be a bit of an over-reaction on paper but I should imagine there was a backstory to that. Always fun when band tensions boil over...

You got that one right pal!
I'm talking about something that has been going on for a few years.

This guy is the first person on the scene when ever anybody needs a fundraiser.
I can go on and on about good things he has done for me and many, many, other people. Back in February, I was doing a show when my trusty Peavy CS800 bit the big one. He drove to the gig to bring me an amp to use for free.
Really adds to the WTF? factor.

Still, I feel like my back is against the wall.
Time will tell.

I know someone else already suggested this. Just retire that Frontman & get another similar amp for little $ that can be used for the same stuff. Use the girl's amp at home only. Don't even bother explaining. That particular issue will soon vanish. If this guy is a valued close friend for 12+ years, he's almost like a brother. "Good with the bad" etc.

The chap has an adolescent mind. Any time he mentions the amp in those terms, act as if you didn't hear anything. If he mentions it without saying anything about the late young lady, act as if you did hear him.

That's what I do with my dog.

<sarcasm>Wow...lot's of shrinks on this forum! Who knew!</sarcasm>

What the guy does is very insensitive and it obviously hurts you. So either he does not realize that enough or he does it on purpose (in which case I'm with the majority of the posters: ditch him!).

I´d just talk to him again and try to make him understand that what he says is really hurtful to you...some people don´t mean bad, but are just thick...

For 26 years I've owned a restaurant and been raising teenagers. I've seen em get married and buried. I recently had a young lady lose her mom to cancer and will soon stand beside two of the finest young men I;ve ever known as they bury their mom who is losing to cancer also. I don't believe your bandmate really likes doing the fundraising/benfit gigs, but likes watching those her are hurting , sorta like a trainwreck watcher. I'll bet he is not the slightest bit sensetive. If you do clock him with the amp and need a place to hide the evidence I'm just an email away ;-) Good luck with him !

Cut him off, like the wart he is.
Cite chronic dis-respect.
Attempt to forgive, never forget (as if you could)!

I'd tell him, "Bring your own amp, ****head." Let him figure it out.

I'm firmly in the "he's a douchebag who needs an ass kicking" camp. However-

I have a friend who referred to my deceased father's Jack Daniels as "dead man's whiskey", shortly after he died but it was different. From many people, a statement like that would lose them some teeth, but I didn't hear anything insulting or insensitive in his voice when he said it. He still refers to JD as "dead man's whiskey" now whenever we're together. His tone when suggesting "hey man, let's have a little of that dead man's whiskey" comes across to me as deeply respectful, even reverent. And he always toasts my old man right off.

It's never bothered me even a little bit coming from him. My mother heard him once though, and had a FIT. That was years ago, and she will still leave a room if my friend is in it, and doesn't understand why I would still have him around.

A lot of things are about perception. It could be that he really is a nice guy, who is extremely uncomfortable with the whole amp situation, and referring to the amp in the way that he does is just a woefully inept and misguided attempt at diffusing his feelings on the matter with humor. I'm not terribly inclined to believe that, but it could be the case.

Whatever the cause of his behaviour, I think it's absolutely right and just to let him know there will be no next time, and follow through with it. Whatever his reasoning for this behaviour, be it sociopathic, or just an inability to deal with the situation maturely, he needs to know once and for all that it's totally unacceptable.

I fired-off an incendiary reply that would only end-up as ****** if I quoted it here.




unfortunately for me, thats what I would do too. I dont ***** around on email, I'm right to the point, and if somebody irritates me, they get it right between the eyes. Theres no excuse for this person to keep saying that about the amp.

Email and text is weird in that it can often escalate into an argument that might not happen in person.... people can read things the wrong way, get upset...

I know someone else already suggested this. Just retire that Frontman & get another similar amp for little $ that can be used for the same stuff. Use the girl's amp at home only. Don't even bother explaining. That particular issue will soon vanish. If this guy is a valued close friend for 12+ years, he's almost like a brother. "Good with the bad" etc.

thats a very practical and sensible idea.

how unusual for this forum :twisted:

Keep the amp... Ditch him..

I'm glad you set his him straight(hopefully). For a guy who apparently knows how to do the right thing, I'm suprised he's not getting the point on this one!

Tell him the amp is not working anymore.:wink:

You got that one right pal!
I'm talking about something that has been going on for a few years.

This guy is the first person on the scene when ever anybody needs a fundraiser.
I can go on and on about good things he has done for me and many, many, other people. Back in February, I was doing a show when my trusty Peavy CS800 bit the big one. He drove to the gig to bring me an amp to use for free.
Really adds to the WTF? factor.

Still, I feel like my back is against the wall.
Time will tell.

Your bandmate has been insensitive and his actions have caused you pain and have challenged your sense of decency and loyalty.

But, you have measured his character against these specific actions and you see value in him as a human being, as a caring and sensitive 'good' guy.

The disconnect between his consistent actions and his actions and comments in this isolated case and your subsequent responses to him are the part that seem to be causing the friction.

Whenever I see this kind of stuff, there is usually something going on that, if you value this person, deserves some attention and thought, reflection and discussion rather than swift, decisive, emotional action.

Some folks would suggest that you hurt him in the way that you have been hurt ostensibly to insure that he truly 'knows how you feel'.

Some would ostracize the guy, abandon the relationship and call the guy names and try to hurt him.

I think all of those solutions are emotional and understandable, but they don't solve your problem (and definitely don't solve your friend's problem nor do they honor the memory of the young girl.)

It is true that conversation alone does not solve problems and frequently the time table we have for others to learn and 'get better' and be better is not the same time frame that the person in need of help has... but, dismissing someone over an isolated action (especially when his deeds have been good, it is his words in this case that have caused offense) benefits no one.

You are stuck with the bile of the moment and it will linger, he is probably unable to comprehend what happened, the young girl is completely unaware of the slight...

If your back is to the wall, it is because you have chosen to put it there. (yes, he said the words, but you are making the choice to feel forced to take action or respond... you could, effectively, ignore his comments, recognize this shortcoming as a trespass, forgive the trespass and move on if you chose to and then you would not have your back to the wall.)

In this, I think you want to honor the memory of your young friend. What would she do? What result would she want? We can't really know that, but I'm thinking that most people when faced with life and death typically find thoughtless, hurtful comments as pretty trivial in comparison to actions and the actual life, love and death of people...

I could not tell if you had taken this friend in hand, gone to a quiet place where just the two of you could talk in private and tell him the full story of this young girl, who she was, what she means to you and how that amp is tied to you emotionally and how much he hurt you by his offhand comments.

It wouldn't be fair to assume that he was, with intention, trying to hurt you or harm the girl, it was a thoughtless, ignorant series of comments and, unfortunately, sometimes folks will get their emotions and pride all wound up and when called on an insensitivity will react by not only defending their ignorance but doubling up on it in a huge show of pride and foolishness.

We choose to keep the war raging or find a way to educate, help and foster good stuff among people who we know to be otherwise good people... When we dismiss folks out of hand, we often find ourselves alone and upon closer inspection not faultless by any measure...

Forgive those who trespass against us as we are forgiven our trespasses.

Just a thought. You are much closer to the situation and will know best, but something to consider.

Absolutely, totally, unconditionally out of order. Fix it, 'cause it's a lesson he has to learn.

I know someone else already suggested this. Just retire that Frontman & get another similar amp for little $ that can be used for the same stuff. Use the girl's amp at home only. Don't even bother explaining. That particular issue will soon vanish. If this guy is a valued close friend for 12+ years, he's almost like a brother. "Good with the bad" etc.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Just retire the amp and keep it at home. Replace it with something similar. You wouldn't want anything bad to happen to it anyway. Then you will have no more conflict or issue. Tell him you gave it back to the girl's family.

If you have mentioned this several times and he hasn't stopped...well I don't know what kind of guy you are but well they say violence solves nothing.. a pop in the mouth will stop that.. I am pissed off and it wasn't me..he or I would be done with that band..

'A pop in the mouth'? Really? That's your way to solve an issue? :confused:

Listen man you are taking issue with something not worth taking issue with.. Its not like I walk around and every time I get in a dispute I start throwing down..This particular topic gets me pretty hot I have had a similar thing happen but not with a bandmember..just sayin' if he persisted with something he knows is either hurtful or you have made mention of that you take offence to and he does it anyway that is disrespectful and most likely the guy isn't a true friend an IS trying to be a jerk.. thems fighting words after awhile..Don't get the wrong impression I am a happy feller not a boxer..:grin:

Listen man you are taking issue with something not worth taking issue with.. Its not like I walk around and every time I get in a dispute I start throwing down..This particular topic gets me pretty hot I have had a similar thing happen but not with a bandmember..just sayin' if he persisted with something he knows is either hurtful or you have made mention of that you take offence to and he does it anyway that is disrespectful and most likely the guy isn't a true friend an IS trying to be a jerk.. thems fighting words after awhile..Don't get the wrong impression I am a happy feller not a boxer..:grin:

Not trying to be a jerk, but I find this very hard to read...
May I suggest the popping instead of words to you? :wink: (just kidding)

It is kinda hard to read isn't it.. :lol:

Sounds to me like your bandmate has no idea what really happened, and also a particularly heightened fear of death he can deal with only by ridiculing it. At least that's my best take on it.

Sorry for the loss of your friend and her mom's terrible heartache.

I'm back.
I've had a LOT going on since the gig this weekend.

I am very happy to say we had a down-to-earth, heart-to-heart talk about the whole thing about an hour before we hit the stage.
In a nutshell, he thought I had said something long ago that made him think I was joking.

We talked for quite a while. Just a real, nice sit-down with no drama.
Both of us made an effort to reach-out. It worked.
I told him that if I did say anything like that (I don't remember saying that), I was wrong.

He gave me what I felt was an honest and, sincere apology.

Can't begin to tell you how good that felt to hear it!

~ST

Glad to hear you both handled it like mature, responsible human beings and were able to be open and honest with each other

Excellent!

Not often that someone does me that way, but if it happens I tell them about it once. After that, I'm done with them.


Agreed ! :shock:


http://bobbyandthejammers.wordpress.com/?ref=spelling

Is beating the **** out of him not on the table?

+1

EDIT:
Oh, I see it was a big misunderstanding. Well, I'm glad that was all taken care of.

He guys! Read up! The OP talked to the guy and got it sorted out! No lips or friendships split!

Almost sounds like you guys are sorry out it turned out well...

Glad to hear it was resolved in a proper and respectful way!

Talk to him, tell him how you feel, at least give him another chance. I try to look for the good in everyone, sometimes you gotta look a little deeper.