new business idea, what you think?

heya all,
had an idea for a while that i wanted to get your feedback on, something i've been thinking about & right up the home depot alley..so to speak: )

you know those cheaper guitars that you find every few years that are efn great to play out of the box, what if that was a business?

lemme explain, i've owned approx 30 guitars over the last 20 years ranging from $150 chinese to $3500 usa built. one thing ive learned is this is cheap guitars can be awesome...but they're a rare find.

for example right now on my lap is a squier tele custom 2 that whoops my hwy1 and mex standard (and costs wayyy less), but the electronics are below par...for someone who been tinkering for 15 years and worked as a soldering iron jockey it's easy fix, so is a setup if the neck is decent to start off with but, what about those that can't do this?

here's the idea,
on the weekend do the guitar store hops to buy 'selected' cheaper squires, epi's that stand out from the bunch. take them home and spend a few hours setting them up, upgrading pots, switches, tuners (would vary pending model of course) and re-sell them as 'player pieces' for perhaps $150-$200 more than purchase cost.

what do you think, viable?

That's how Roger Sadowsky got his start. Sort of. He took old Fender basses and upgraded them with electronics and shielding. He eventually started building complete instruments and has done VERY well for himself.

You got a good idea there. I am very familiar with the cheap and awesome, although they tend be few and far between.

Good luck!!

Sure, if you can get your guitars cheap enough.

The bunch that hang out here are kind of odd. We're much more accepting of a guitar that plays or sounds good, even if it has a Squier sticker on it than they general public, or at least I think that's the case. In order to get a good price you'll have to figure out how to get people to put their hands on them, and experience them for themselves.

Worst case, you buy a half dozen guitars, and you tie up well under a thousand bucks. Even if you don't get rich, you probably won't do a lot of damage. Not a bad gamble in my opinion.

I think it's a great idea. You probably won't get rich off of it but you'll be providing a great service.

Where is st kilda? I think you'd need a fair bit of local volume as shipping would kill you, and I think it would be a tough business sell if the buyer couldn't put hand to guitar before buying.

The thing is alot of guys buy cheap guitars are diy's with the intent of upgrading them anyway.

hey thanks for the feedback guys! i kind of figured it had been done before and will check out Roger Sadowsky, cheers landereth....was thinking demo vids would help and yeah i would only buy guitars that start as rare ones, that would be the whole premise. Then do the necessary cheap electric upgrades etc.

im thinking i would be completely upfront with the purchase costs and time put in, and why, so really might not make much on each guitar. dsutton yeah i figured many of us here dont care about the brand, but for an epi buyer its a bit of a jump to a gibbo, so maybe the 'cream of the crop' epi is appealing?

i work for a web company so able to get traffic to a website, ecommerce etc. actually that's why i was looking to do it, to get my hands onto something other than a keyboard, dont expect to make much money out of it but i really like fixing things up and used to be an electronic engineer, i miss the tools and 'tweaking'...would love to have a proper workshop, one day!: )

bigdaddy st kilda is in melbourne australia & has around 3 million people, there's stacks of guitar shops...but im actually living in nuremberg (germany) now so will need to check out the possibilities, there's 80million people here but they are way more spread out than in australia which is city condensed.

anyway cool thanks for the feedback guys, will look into it a lil bit more i think!

oh btw, if it doesn't work i've still successfully got more sweet playing guitars past my girlfriend, just saying: )

oh btw, if it doesn't work i've still successfully got more sweet playing guitars past my girlfriend, just saying: )
I knew there was another reason you're thinking of doing this!

haha mike, deep down it's probably the main reason...i left 16 or so guitars in storage plus a few lent to mates in australia and are now at 3 in germany, usa strat (loan), squier custom 2 and a hofner 3/4 nylon acoustic (loan), its tough: )

the 92 usa strat i borrowed from a lovely older chap, the squier tele i bought (after shopping with 1k euro budget) blows it away in every aspect except the name....for 300 euro! i tried everything tele wise for under 1k and if you're looking, be sure to try as many of these as you can. http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_squier_tele_custom_bk.htm

the one i bought was way better than 2 others i've tried since , part of the reason the business idea came up again. also i put the squier up against 3 les pauls, standard, traditional and another (sorry cant remember) being all humbucking guitars...im not brand name biased and actually own a usa les paul,with my eyes closed the tele beat the 3 easily!

There used to be a guy on ebay, selling cheap acoustics for more than they can be purchased new for, after he set them up. He had a big write up about it in the listings.... I remember he was in a one hit wonder band..I was thinking it was "Spirit in the sky" but it wasn't, it was "In the year 2525" I did a quick search and sure enough....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Zager

I didn't realize that there was a Nebraska connection there??!!

I used to love that song when I was a kid.

Personally I don't think I'd stake my future on selling cheap guitars for more than you can buy them new for. Not that I don't think cheap guitars these days can be awesome, but I think that most people that would appreciate the difference, could tweak them themselves.

And beginners...well...they don't really know anything about guitars.

but what do I know?

Often, people would rather buy a "new" guitar, than what would then become a "used" guitar with upgrades. I fear your off-the-lot value hit would just about cost what your upgrades are. Unless you're a dealer with a brand franchise, you cannot sell the guitars as new. Fender and Gibson are pretty strict about this.

My problem is, I look at an instrument, it's a $250 guitar new, regardless of what someone else has done to it, it's still a "used" $250 guitar...know what I mean?

I see it all the time on CL...someone selling an Epi or Tele or whatever...and they want me to pay for all their "upgrades"...I won't do it...plain and simple. To me they have "degraded" the guitar by taking away the original parts.

That's just me...maybe others feel differently?

heya all,
had an idea for a while that i wanted to get your feedback on, something i've been thinking about & right up the home depot alley..so to speak: )

you know those cheaper guitars that you find every few years that are efn great to play out of the box, what if that was a business?

lemme explain, i've owned approx 30 guitars over the last 20 years ranging from $150 chinese to $3500 usa built. one thing ive learned is this is cheap guitars can be awesome...but they're a rare find.

for example right now on my lap is a squier tele custom 2 that whoops my hwy1 and mex standard (and costs wayyy less), but the electronics are below par...for someone who been tinkering for 15 years and worked as a soldering iron jockey it's easy fix, so is a setup if the neck is decent to start off with but, what about those that can't do this?

here's the idea,
on the weekend do the guitar store hops to buy 'selected' cheaper squires, epi's that stand out from the bunch. take them home and spend a few hours setting them up, upgrading pots, switches, tuners (would vary pending model of course) and re-sell them as 'player pieces' for perhaps $150-$200 more than purchase cost.

what do you think, viable?

The biggest problem I would think on a lot of those guitars the pickups are the problem, and new pickups might take a lot of your profit out of it.

I think garage sales might give you a better chance to buy cheap enough to make it work.

...here's the idea,
on the weekend do the guitar store hops to buy 'selected' cheaper squires, epi's that stand out from the bunch. take them home and spend a few hours setting them up, upgrading pots, switches, tuners (would vary pending model of course) and re-sell them as 'player pieces' for perhaps $150-$200 more than purchase cost.

what do you think, viable?

Marketing is the problem. How do you propose to get people to decide to pay store price plus $150.00? Definitely swimming against the current. It's barely conceivable if you have a lot of walk-in traffic and can get the instrument in the prospect's hands. At least play it safe, do one guitar first to validate your concept.

Better you try to find used guitars well below market, fix them up judiciously, and sell at market.

I've seen Squire Bullets all over the place with Seymour Duncans in them for $129. That's the kinda deal you want.

Ricky D, tele12, customxke & fenderchamp (and everyone!), thanks heaps for taking the time and i totally agree with all of your points, especially the marketing and how to well, find the right market in the first place...seriously even though i love tele's to be able to jump on here and get honest non spam machine feedback is what makes this place awesome regardless of never winning a tdrpi prize...haha

anyway it was a side project idea, running my own business that pays bills and moving countries leaves little time for anything else, i guess i was trying to mix guitar shop hopping with a hobby of tweaking guitars to play great (and well expensive guitars these days leave lots to be desired imo..a real lot).

maybe ill try 2 squiers over the next few months that are real players and see, there's really not a lot to lose hey, or ill just post on here every time i play an awesome cheap guitar and bring it home: )

i actually went out last weekend to buy the '1 perfect guitar', it saddens me to think even with a few thousand euro budget i couldn't find anything that played or sounded better than a squier...oh well, more for us: )

p.s. i still want a honeyburst les paul for the wall!

Beard does this with Gold Tone Dobros and puts a sticker inside the sound hole to show that it has been tweaked and set up by them.

You need to get yourself a cool sticker made up and do the same thing.

Unfortunately at the end of the day, it will still be a Squier, Epi or whatever. No offense intended whatsoever, but I don't see this as a successful business model.

Best of luck though if you decide to take the plunge :)

My problem is, I look at an instrument, it's a $250 guitar new, regardless of what someone else has done to it, it's still a "used" $250 guitar...know what I mean?

I see it all the time on CL...someone selling an Epi or Tele or whatever...and they want me to pay for all their "upgrades"...I won't do it...plain and simple. To me they have "degraded" the guitar by taking away the original parts.

That's just me...maybe others feel differently?

just had a new idea, adams reliced squiers, even easier than upgrading!

i cant wait until relicing is uncool, going to pick me up some nice guitars to refinish! don't get me wrong i love the feel of a worn in instrument, but like a pair of jeans i prefer its me: )

Someone was/is importing cheap guitars in some volume, then taking the time to properly set them up here in the USA. I can't remember who is/was doing this. I remember thinking what a brilliant idea that was.

If you had the $ to buy a container full of guitars from China, set them up yourself, and then brand them with your own cool logo, I think there would be profit to be made.

Might want two cool logos, however. One really cool one for the guitars that turn out good... the ones you take in the front door of the music store selling them for you. The other, not so cool logo would go on the turds you take in through the back door of the music store.

I doubt there is much of a market for hot rodded low end guitars. Soldering is pretty easy. It must be if I was able to do it.

How many people are really going to want to buy cheap guitars with fancy pickups? You might find some really nice guitars for yourself that way, but as a source of income? I don't mean to sound negative, it just seems like it would be tough to make a profit that way.

How many good guitar/amp techs are there in your area? Maybe you could make some dough that way.

It may be better if instead of buying a bunch. You could set up a web store that offers a range of decent instruments. And explain that all your instruments include a free setup. You price them at a point that will be profitable for you. If someone orders one, then you buy it, set it up and ship it. If you get enough orders, you may decide to buy some in advance based on demand.

I think a less risky model would be to offer customization and upgrade for someone's cheapo, rather than buying and reselling.

Agree 100% on how even cheap guitars can shine with some TLC! I found a copy of an Explorer, the wood looked good, resonated, and was well put together. The fret work was also fine. Now, those are the only things I haven't changed!
The electrics was apparently soldered by children, and the switch wasn't even grounded!

I can't see it working. If someone gets a new guitar they get a manufacturer's warranty, which you couldn't really offer. Also budget guitars are often bought by parents who wouldn't understand the extra value and probably expect their kids to give up after a few months anyway. They would be very unlikely to pay the extra.

A better idea would be to buy used guitars, fix them up and sell them for a small profit. I have done that a few times. The profit is always tiny though if you factor in the time involved in finding them, going to buy them, fixing them up and then trying to reach potential buyers. You would actually make more money doing set ups on other people's guitars.

So, another angle would be to offer your services as a reasonably-priced Upgrade Service? That way you only have to worry about stocking components, offer replacement pickups based on a consultation, and charge for the labour and skill involved in transforming the client's guitar for them? Then you won't be tying-up money in guitar inventory. I still like the idea of finding used bargain-basement guitars for cheap and transforming them as well.

You would do better to stock the parts and just advertise on craigslist or on the cork board at music stores/guitar center.

Let the customers buy the guitars and bring them to you. Then you only charge for the parts and labor.

Learn basic setup procedures. Adjusting truss rods/setting actions, making bone nuts, cleaning up shoddy fretwork, etc etc.

Keep some nice upgrade parts on hand like better tuning keys and straplocks and other things that make a cheap Squier or Epi into a player's guitar.

My thoughts ............ don't quit your day job.

Heard of 1-800-GOT-JUNK? Someone took a basic service and franchised it. Find a way to do that.

I've mentioned this before, but I know a couple who work part time as a delivery service -- mainly booze and smokes to folks who live in trailer parks who've had their own cars repossessed or are too drunk to drive. There's an excellent, recession-proof, service just waiting for franchisement.

You would do better to stock the parts and just advertise on craigslist or on the cork board at music stores/guitar center.

Let the customers buy the guitars and bring them to you. Then you only charge for the parts and labor.

Learn basic setup procedures. Adjusting truss rods/setting actions, making bone nuts, cleaning up shoddy fretwork, etc etc.

Keep some nice upgrade parts on hand like better tuning keys and straplocks and other things that make a cheap Squier or Epi into a player's guitar.

i think the only problem with doing setups is that the folks bringing in the guitars are proper players, and the guitars are generally of higher value / emotional worth...it's how i started setting up my own guitars years ago. ive paid 150 for a setup at a highly recommended luthier and it sucked...for my playing style and feel anyway.

the 'cream of the crop' idea was really the basis of it, the occasional awesome playing cheap guitar. but as eveyone's pointed out who's going to pay more for a used guitar that's been opened and modified, i'd prob need to buy the guitar well below rrp and sell only slightly above i'd say..and then how do you find those people (mums and dads who only know the local music store)...back to the drawing board me thinks: )

I just bought my 16 year old a CV Thinline and am in the process of upgrading it.

Of course he doesn't really care what kind of pots or pickups are inside of it (yet) but it's me who wants to upgrade it for him.

Not sure if I would buy an upgraded guitar myself. I think offering an upgrade after it's bought new is the way to go, sort of like an up sell.

If I owned a shop selling Squiers and other low end models, I would offer an upgrade package. For instance, if I bought the CV and the salesman offered to upgrade the nut from cheap plastic to a nice bone or Tusq for an extra 20 bucks (priced only as an upgrade), I'd jump all over it. I'd even consider an under the hood overhaul if the price reflected a deal because I was buying new.

Only one way to find out. Start with guitar #1 and go from there. I like the idea and I think that if you want it to work, you will figure it out. Good luck!

I am just being devils' advocate here but are you not offering a service at a price that the retail dealer ought to be doing in the price as a matter of course?
Probably says more about the dealers than you. I think you might have a hard sell on your hands but as others say try it with one and see how you go. You may find off the back of the first one if it is indeed good , as you suggest it will be , that you will then get referral set up business from friends of your first client. Good news travels !

I've had 2 nephews in the past few years that took up guitar playing. Both of them received a cheap guitar and a small practice amp from their parents. Both of them received a complete set-up tweak from their uncle. And both of them noticed immediately a marked improvement in playability and said it make playing the guitar more fun when you don't have to fight a crappy set-up.

One of them switched over to the dark side and is now playing regular gigs as the drummer in a punk rock band in clubs around the Minneapolis area. The other is still playing (he's a sophmore in high school), is quite good, and I can seem him continuing this as a side line career.

Had they not had someone who knows the value of a playable guitar as opposed to junk, I doubt either one would still be involved in music.

My point is... crappy guitars with crappy set-up usually equals discouraged kid :(

Assuming you can buy them as close to Wholesale cost as possible. However, with so may DIYers out there, I can't imagine it would be too profitable. Plus for people who are looking for a starter, upgrades aren't really going to be an issue.
I wouldn't buy one. I can do the work myself.

How much time are you willing to spend on a guitar in order to make $100 off the resale? You'll spend time driving to the music store, trying out guitars, bring it home, work on it, advertise it, stand around will some guy tries it out. That's 3-4 hours right there. You've made $25 an hour.

Why not just open a guitar tech/repair business and offer this as a service?

I agree with those that say just try it. My sister started a business selling used stuff on eBay. She eventually narrowed it down to just shoes, it just seemed to be a good fit for her.
Once you get going you might be led to a direction you didn't expect by the flow of the business.

Sounds like a good idea and if you've got the stones to give it a go you might even be able to make it work!

I don't think this is going to work, sorry. Here's why.

Your target customer is someone who a) wants a cheap guitar, but b) is willing to pay an additional price for one that's been blessed by an expert and upgraded.

If they know enough to want b), they probably don't need it. If they want a), they probably don't know enough to want b).

There's also the psychology of branding going against you. Customers correlate quality with price, so a hotrodded Squier set up perfectly is still inferior to a poorly set up Mexican Standard or Highway 1, in their minds.

Put it this way: you're offering to pick out the best Kias on the lot, replace the hubcaps and lightbulbs, and sell them for the cost of a bare-bones Honda Civic, with no warranty. Would you buy one?

Ok, two things:

The easiest way to fail at something is to never try.

You can always find people willing to give you reasons not to try.

Having said that, some of the advice and comments giving here should be food for thought.

It sounds to me like the initial cost of start up should be reasonably low, that's in your favor. Also, while you may not be threatening Musician's Friend's market share I have a feeling there are customers for your product and or service.

If you stand behind your product that's a big plus, and don't be just some "dude" that does this on the side. Your customer's don't have to know this isn't your main gig, if you come across as professional and deliver like a professional I think you have a shot to make a nice little side income.

You may also find after trying it out that the idea needs "tweaking" or moving in another direction.

There is no reward without risk, ever!

Good luck!

I actually do this, I buy cheaper foreign guitars, but I do more than just switch out electronics. I sand off the finish and put a new one on. I also have a special neck treatment that I do for any type of neck. It's not really become profitable yet, but has potential. It's just taking too long to get these guitars to sell. I've done 6, and only managed to sell one... I've had two for sale for a good 3 months now. You'd think there'd be high demand here in Nashville...

Does the neck still look like an import neck when you are done with it? The low dollar necks use wood that just doesn't look like traditional maple and that open hole adjustment rod cavity to me anyway makes it look like an import any way you cut it.

Not sure if this has been said, but I'd bet you could do a lot better in business by offering that service on the web. Customized and setup guitars, shipped to you, setup, and shipped back.

You'd obviously have to provide great service, maybe "hotrod" packages, etc. you'd still be providing the same service, ptobably making the same or better money, and wouldn't have to tie up your own time and money looking for the perfect cheap guitars... Let your customers find what they want, visit your website, choose their options, and setup the work, all from the comfort of home.

Good luck!

I see lots of good feedback on your business plan, but was looking for one distinction between buying and selling and doing upgrades on demand.

If you buy what you see as a good candidate for upgrade, you can invest your time on your schedule.

If you respond to people buying and requesting an upgrade, it will be on their schedule. You could have some real peaks and valleys and not be able to accommodate all the potential customers all the time.

I have a friend who teaches guitar and he often complains about the setup quality of his student's instruments. That would be a possible business target as well, catering to established students needing help with their guitars. Talk to some teachers?

Good luck with it. I think it could be a success no matter how you approach it.

Acme Guitar Works does something kind of similar, but they are essentially hot rodding Fenders and marking them up. They are also a Fender dealer so have the advantage of dealer cost.

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Hotrod-Guitars-C348.aspx

I see lots of hood feedback on your business plan, but was looking for one distinction between buying and selling and doing upgrades on demand.

If you buy what you see as a good candidate for upgrade, you can invest your time on your schedule.

If you respond to people buying and requesting an upgrade, it will be on their schedule. You could have some real peaks and valleys and not be able to accommodate all the potential customers all the time.

I have a friend who teaches guitar and he often complains about the setup quality of his student's instruments. That wool be a possible business target as well, catering to established students needing help with their guitars. Talk to some teachers?

Good luck with it. I think it could be a success no matter how you approach it.

That's a great idea, especially if you can do it for $50 or so.

All of us probably experienced the frustration of a poor playing 1st guitar.

The obstacle would probably be that parents don't want to spend a bunch of money thinking that the kid will lose interest, and that's a self-fulfilling prophecy with the poor setup on many cheap guitars.

So if you can set the action and intonation, maybe tweak the nut or a couple of frets in 2 hours, that's $25/hour. A luthier who's got to pay for storefront would charge maybe $150 for a complete setup. That doubles the price of a cheap guitar, so maybe that's where you come in and find a niche.

Give it a try, the worst thing that can happen is that you'll gain valuable experience doing setup work.

Even if you don't make any money, you'll likely help a few beginning guitar players keep at it. That's probably worth it for the good karma alone.

Why not skip the buying the guitar part...just offer to upgrade people's guitars that they already own. You can have standard prices for certain upgrades. EXAMPLE: Squire Strat...new pickups, pots, switch and shielding for a set price. Same for other brands/types.

Why not skip the buying the guitar part...just offer to upgrade people's guitars that they already own. You can have standard prices for certain upgrades. EXAMPLE: Squire Strat...new pickups, pots, switch and shielding for a set price. Same for other brands/types.

Yes. But an upgrade like that would double the price of the squire, and put you in the range of a MIM Fender (which IMO is close to the MIA version, and says Fender on the headstock).

If you sell the service of a setup instead of an upgrade with replacement parts, you're only out of the labor involved.

Fine for a guy who loves the feel of his squire, but hates the pups, but until people know that a cheap no-name guitar can sound and play better than the big names, they're looking at the name on the headstock, or the price tag.

Yes. But an upgrade like that would double the price of the squire, and put you in the range of a MIM Fender (which IMO is close to the MIA version, and says Fender on the headstock).

If you sell the service of a setup instead of an upgrade with replacement parts, you're only out of the labor involved.

Fine for a guy who loves the feel of his squire, but hates the pups, but until people know that a cheap no-name guitar can sound and play better than the big names, they're looking at the name on the headstock, or the price tag.


True...also true if he were to buy the guitars himself. He can have a range of services....starting with a simple set up and going all the way up, my example was one of the upper ones for sure.