The woes of a backing singer

Guess I encountered a classic problem of trying to sing some backing vocals for our band. I'm the main guitarist of the group but I really think backing vocals would (eventually!) make us sound better and to be honest, I'd like to develop my singing.

Now I'm no natural singer so I practise quite hard. I like to plug my mic into a monitor speaker back at home and practise singing whilst playing simple bits of guitar to try and keep me in key. When it came to putting into a band practise, I found it difficult to hear myself! In my limited experience singing is about hearing and adjusting your pitch to complement the muscle memory of notes and tones. So I bit the bullet and turned my mic up at band practise so I could hear - for our main singer to promptly turn my mic back down. I did try and point out that singing without hearing myself is just impossible and got a look rather like I'd just spoken Martian.

Obviously, I don't want my voice to dominate, but I've got to hear. Good monitoring would help I have no doubt, but I'm not sure the band can push to a mixer that will have enough channels for different mixes for everyone. I'm wondering if there is any one out there who's had similar problems with singing in a band, any good rants they had with the main singer and how they solved the problems!

Ear plugs, believe it or not, are the best solution at rehearsal for me. You can then hear your voice from inside your head. Some expensive ones even let certain frequencies through, but plain old Hear-O's work for me. Just make sure your guitar tone and volume are acceptable first. One ear plug in and one out is ideal for hearing your backup vocal and the mix, but I'm told it's bad for your hearing. We use in-ear monitors for gigs and that is the best solution hands down. It seems to help anyone with an ear sing in tune.

I love it when the other players in the jam group help with harmonies. I wish they'd do it more because I can't sing both and they do a decent job.
True, you have to be able to hear yourself. Could it be that your main singer thinks your singing is off? Record a practice and see if you're 'pitchy'.
We only have 2 speakers period. I hog one for myself as a monitor to hear (right speaker) and pan anyone else who plugs in to the soundboard to the left speaker. I have to hear myself over the racket we make. We mostly just play out of our amps. Sounds like a rougher set up than what you have. Our arrangement wouldn't work on a stage.

Thanks jack,

I tried the one ear plug thing and didn't really enjoy it. I might give it another go though. I kind of felt a bit disjointed from the rest of the band and it does lead to a muddy sound in one side of your head. In-ear monitors look ideal - do you think they might be a bit pretentious for a cover band? I kind of worry about looking like a guy who has 'all the gear and no idea'. Is this daft?

Ringodingo

My singing is a bit off. No questions about that. It's getting better whilst rehearsing alone, but bad with the band. I feel like the only way I'm going to get better is by being bad for a bit, but being heard. If I never can be heard, I'm never going to be practising...

Now I'm no natural singer so I practise quite hard. I like to plug my mic into a monitor speaker back at home and practise singing whilst playing simple bits I'm wondering if there is any one out there who's had similar problems with singing in a band, any good rants they had with the main singer and how they solved the problems!

I broke down and bought 2 Wedge cabs, and a small rack with a power supply, 31-band EQ and, Power Amp.

After I did that, my band mates took it as a sign that I really did want to bring my game up a notch.

Best move I ever made.

Just don't give up brother, its sad to hear about people actually quitting tryin to sing when they are already a decent player

Thanks jack,

I tried the one ear plug thing and didn't really enjoy it. I might give it another go though. I kind of felt a bit disjointed from the rest of the band and it does lead to a muddy sound in one side of your head. In-ear monitors look ideal - do you think they might be a bit pretentious for a cover band? I kind of worry about looking like a guy who has 'all the gear and no idea'. Is this daft?

No one has accused us of being pretentious due to in-ears, at least not to our faces. Most don't notice. On the minus side, in-ear mixes from house soundman would change during his tweaks if he didn't know what he was doing, and some soundman grumbled if they didn't have experience with them. We solved this by buying splitters for every input. One half of the signal goes to the sound dude and the second to our "Mix Whiz". At small clubs we send the Mix Whiz to powered speakers and run our own sound. Another negative is isolation from the crowd. You don't want to bow and smile after someone yells "You suck!"

You don't want to bow and smile after someone yells "You suck!"

I would (and have done!). :wink:

I used to play in a group where we occasionally did some rather elaborate harmonies...the bass player was well experienced in vocal ensamble music and also a natural in placing the ohhh, ahhs, and harmonized lines...we would devote entire practices to fitting in the harmonies... I would simply strum the tune on my flat top while we worked out the vocal arrangement.

In my current band...a trio, we are all decent vocalists and we devote time to fitting the harmonies together. Two part harmonies are usually pretty easy...three parts often notch the difficulty up considerably...even in the Byrds Gene Clark and Roger McGuinn sang the same thing while David Crosby did the harmonies....and while its neat when the harmonies occur spontaniously, more often they require some forethought planning and practice...specific practice. I read somewhere that in the course of working up their first album, the Eagles would do harmonies 8 hours a day...

A friend of mine played it a trio..three women...they were capable but not dazzling players..but the three of them harmonized like angels...and it occurred to me you can get alot of mileage out of good harmonies and cowboy chords...

you might suggest to your bandmates that you devote some time to practing the harmonies...it might require backing off the volume so you can hear each other but harmonies get loss when you are rattling the earth anyway...

...and...your lead singer has to be on board with this...you cant do back up harmonies for someone who doesnt want back up harmonies. He needs to hear you as well as you need to hear him..and yourself...

...and...your lead singer has to be on board with this...you cant do back up harmonies for someone who doesnt want back up harmonies. He needs to hear you as well as you need to hear him..and yourself...



Agreed :wink: Why fight the tide...find another project that will allow you to sing on the side if you really desire to do so. Non the less...you don't need your bands approval to continue developing your voice on your own time and with another music project with someone else. True harmony singing is very hard and complex in my opinion..damn near a God given talent if you can do it :shock: Just trying to sing in unison can be hard...I've done backup singing and an occasional lead on a few tunes ...No more for me..I now stick to playin lead and devoting 100% to that alone :lol:

http://bobbyandthejammers.wordpress.com/

One of the best vocal groups in the World gearing up for their 50th Aniversary Reunion Tour :cool:

http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1320679677&user=bellagio

As the lead singer in my band I found that when the bass player started singing harmonies it wasn't great but I stuck with it. As the weeks in practice sessions went by he got better and now it's a great asset to the band. It has to be a team effort where everyone is on board and patient.

As i do a lot of backing and some lead vocals, i like to have my mic set up pretty loud. If it's not loud enough and i do backings i can't hear myself well and if so, i try to push my voice more than i can stand . . so higher volume gives me the space to take myself back until i have found that sweet spot whre i think i sound best with the lead singer. Ant to sing lead i go a little closer to the mic . .

The most recent bass player I have played with doesn't have a very strong voice and I wouldn't care to listen to him sing lead but he can stay in tune and even a weak harmony is better than no harmony.

Singing is probably the best time investment you can make as a guitar player ;-)

Harmony singing is tough. I taught myself over a long period of time by singing along to Rolling Stones and Jason and Scorchers songs in the car. Their harmonies are simple but you get good ideas how to create a line on your own, for your own songs in your band.

He who controls the mixer controls the band. In a certain way.

Wow, some great advice in there. Thanks to all for your responses!

I think what I'm learning is that we really need to put more time aside for our vocals. I think our lead (and myself to some extent) wants the result without the work. I think I might just force a bit of patience out of our group as I really think we'll be a significantly improved band with more voices singing. I reckon that this along with plenty more practise on my own might just yield results. Oh - and more mic volume for me!

You never know, if we get good I might upload some results!

P.s. did anyone get the 'woes' pun in the thread title. I was quite happy about that one. A bit subtle maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4

Wow, some great advice in there. Thanks to all for your responses!

I think what I'm learning is that we really need to put more time aside for our vocals. I think our lead (and myself to some extent) wants the result without the work. I think I might just force a bit of patience out of our group as I really think we'll be a significantly improved band with more voices singing. I reckon that this along with plenty more practise on my own might just yield results. Oh - and more mic volume for me!

You never know, if we get good I might upload some results!


theres also the distinct possibility that your singer has an ego issue with you trying to sing. I hope not, but I've seen that before.

There is nothing worse than a lead singer realizing that his "backup" is better than him.... well, at least to that singer.... most times, people that don't want to work on the harmonies don't want to reveal their own faults
singing a line by yourself and singing one with others completely changes the sound....even though they want the full lush accompaniment, they won't stick around for the transition .... what they hear in their head is what they want, despite not being able themselves to accomplish it...either that or he just doesn't want anyone else in the spotlight, which it well could be

Thanks for more replies!

I'm certainly no better singer than our lead - but secretly I aim to be one day. He has actually got a pretty decent voice and it is getting better with time so credit where it's due! I think it comes down to the fact that no one really wants to listen to me being carp until I get it right. Its definitely more of a patience thing than an ego thing.

Sometimes the best part of playing in a band is the challenges it offers...like nailing the thing that seemed not possible...and sometimes that can mean finding a harmony line...

Ive also figured out that you might need to pick and choose what and where you do it...some tunes...or the way your band might do certain tunes, might not lend themselves to much harmonization...I usually sing high harmony..and my high harmonies tend to sound a little bluegrassy...which doesnt work everywhere...so sometimes I shut up...or the tune keeps you busy enough playing guitar that you cant do both...we do a couple of train beat tunes Id love to harmonize on...but Im also very busy with other stuff like guitar playing......some songs the harmonies are mandatory...ever hear someone do "The Weight" without the harmonies?...it aint the same...

It is something that takes work, and your band mates have to be on board enough to at least wait patiently while you and the lead singer go over a passage a few times... to get those "woe woe woe"s down (took me a bit but I *think* I got the pun...) and synchonized....

Ta Don. Really good advice there! I'll certainly try and put some of that into practise.

Cobbler - how did you know what we sounded like. That's amazing. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4

That's a tight song!

I agree, ear plugs are definetly a neccesity for singing, nothing replaces good earplugs for me, not even the best monitors can. without them, i cant give the best vocal performance

Ok - things have definitely got better so I'd thought I'd report progress!

First of all, I tried ear plugs (just in one ear) and hey do offer some benefit, but I struggled to get a good balance of sound, so I could hear me but not what I was singing too. I also have fairly manky ears and wearing an ear plug lead to an ear infection.

So, me and our main singer took some time out with an acoustic just to play a few numbers and this made a big difference. It allowed me to hear myself and find the right harmony to sing. When we got back in the band scenario I found that if i was singing a harmonic (say a 3rd or a 5th) I could often hear myself and get in tune. If I couldn't hear myself then there was obviously too much other stuff filling that musical space. I concluded in this scenario that an extra voice here didn't add anything anyway as I'm obviously not coming through in the mix.

We had a gig on Friday night. I took time to set up a good monitor with vocals only for me and our lead singer. Having been more selective about where and when to sing, along with the good monitor I at least had a fighting chance and I felt quite happy about it all. My final feather in the cap was that our singer's voice gave out on a couple of songs - so I stepped forward and took over. I actually got a few compliments about my voice from a few folk afterwards which made me feel proud as punch.

There's still a long way for me to go with this, but I'm certainly feeling happier about it all! Many thanks for all your help.

I would never rehearse or perform with a rock band without ear plugs in both ears anyway. I know WAY too many guitarists who have damaged their ears by not doing so. As a bonus, plugging both of your ears is the best way to insure that you can hear your own singing.