Am I right to be upset...or just being too sensitive?

So, I'm in my church choir. I've put my blood sweat and tears into that group. I've gone to rehearsals when I was sick. I've learned HARD classical music, that I'm not trained for. I've carred speakers and set up mics in crazy choir lofts. I've directed with NO experiece when the director was out. I've never asked for anything in return....just because I love it. The director is a great, nice guy. Somewhat meek and timid, but a more well intentioned guy you'll never know. Nice to the point where a lot of people take advantage of him. I've sort of taken on the mission of chasing the creeps away from him...and basically getting his back all the time.

That said, we recently had these two brothers join the group. They are classically trained. Their voices are not great...but trained. Still, they don't tend to follow dynamics too much. Just full on loud all the time. They have this crazy vibrato to their voices too. In any case, the problem is that they are young brats, and they have started to push around the director. Telling him how they want things done. They also come to rehearsals only about 1/3 of the time, and often skip masses. And now as we're starting to
prepare for the Christmas concert....I find that I have no solos, and I only sing choral parts in about 3 songs. They.....have solos. Now, I really don't care about solos, but I can't help feeling slighted that I'm really not even singing much at all. I feel like I should tell the director, but I'm concerned that I will upset him as he's very sensitive. We're good friends, and I know that if I told him how I feel...he'd change everything up for me. I don't want him to do that because I don't want to be a prima dona. I'm just really upset by all this, because something that once gave me a lot of joy, is now a source of stress. I'm a pretty tough guy....but I have feelings too.

Wha happen?

I think that I'd talk to the director, if only because you're undoubtedly NOT the only person affected by their power grab. If you really don't want the director to give YOU any solos (an admirably humble stance), insist on that, but do point out that these guys are taking over and perhaps might benefit from a little firmer control...

Tim

I feel ya'. The loud guys with vibrato who don't blend are a major problem in a choir. The choir could sound much better. It's like a car that's not in tune. Too bad the director can't step up. Ask him how he feels about vibrato and volume balance.

I'm behind you on this.

I'm sensing a new reality show; "Choir Boys: Smackdown".

;o)

It's pretty sad that of all places stuff like that goes on in a chruch. I've seen some that you wish a hook would come out of nowhere and yank 'em off the stage. If you are involved in church music, you are going to have to deal with prima donnas a cold hard fact. Be careful when you approach the director, that you don't find yourself in a place you can't defend, or find a way to get back where you started.

If the the two brothers are truly bad, they will affect not only the music but the church. Sometimes, a little patience is all you need. If the boys are lousing up the service someone else will come forward, and you can remain the good guy. It won't take too much vibrato to be more than enough.

They also come to rehearsals only about 1/3 of the time, and often skip masses.

How and why are they still allowed in the choir? To me the solution to this seems pretty simple...

Wow. and I thought rock bands had personnel problems.

So, I'm in my church choir. I've put my blood sweat and tears into that group. I've gone to rehearsals when I was sick. I've learned HARD classical music, that I'm not trained for. I've carred speakers and set up mics in crazy choir lofts. I've directed with NO experiece when the director was out. I've never asked for anything in return....just because I love it. The director is a great, nice guy. Somewhat meek and timid, but a more well intentioned guy you'll never know. Nice to the point where a lot of people take advantage of him. I've sort of taken on the mission of chasing the creeps away from him...and basically getting his back all the time.

That said, we recently had these two brothers join the group. They are classically trained. Their voices are not great...but trained. Still, they don't tend to follow dynamics too much. Just full on loud all the time. They have this crazy vibrato to their voices too. In any case, the problem is that they are young brats, and they have started to push around the director. Telling him how they want things done. They also come to rehearsals only about 1/3 of the time, and often skip masses. And now as we're starting to
prepare for the Christmas concert....I find that I have no solos, and I only sing choral parts in about 3 songs. They.....have solos. Now, I really don't care about solos, but I can't help feeling slighted that I'm really not even singing much at all. I feel like I should tell the director, but I'm concerned that I will upset him as he's very sensitive. We're good friends, and I know that if I told him how I feel...he'd change everything up for me. I don't want him to do that because I don't want to be a prima dona. I'm just really upset by all this, because something that once gave me a lot of joy, is now a source of stress. I'm a pretty tough guy....but I have feelings too.

How old are these brothers. And does anyone else notice that they are not blending with the choir. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a choir suppose to be the sum of a vocal blend? You should not be able to hear a distive voice from a choir. The choir is the voice.

If you can I would take him out for a coffee and discuss your problem and see if you can get it resolved. At least you can say you tried. And then you can do what Tim suggested.

Worship should be a time for worship, not showing off musical talent....

There are two problems as far as I can tell:

1. Those two shouldn't be allowed to come at all unless they attend service and respect your leader and choir. For many reasons, too. Worship should be lead by people who are worshipping themselves, and not just trying to perform. It's an act of humility and praise for God, and has very little to do with ones self.

2. I'm saying this in a Christianly, loving way but no, you should not be upset about this. I understand it's a Christmas concert but still it's ultimately meant for worship. If you think that you honestly would be better for the people in your service and that these two are hindering more than helping, then confront him about it. Only confront him if you think those two are hindering everyone's efforts as a whole. If you find yourself wanting to do it for self-related reasons, then I think that's something you need to come to God about and really consider where your heart is and what your motivation for being in this choir are.

I think that I'd talk to the director, if only because you're undoubtedly NOT the only person affected by their power grab. If you really don't want the director to give YOU any solos (an admirably humble stance), insist on that, but do point out that these guys are taking over and perhaps might benefit from a little firmer control...

Tim

I agree with Tim. You can't be the only choir member who has these issues.
Talk with the director.

You're not being too sensitive at all. It sounds like you've had a strong hand in the quality of the worship. I hear tones of pride and passion. Time to nip it in the bud before things get out of hand.

I wish you well, sorry I can't give you an answer on that one or offer any suggestions.
To me this would just be just another example of what happens in religion as well, not being any different to people anywhere else, people are people, I never expect anything other than that.
I see a church as a place of worship, not Carnegie Hall or a venue for American idol ?
However how you worship is your choice.
Are they there to test you ?
Your opinion is as valid as any other.

Disclaimer: I'm not a traditional religious person. Given is my personal opinion only.
Take with a pinch of salt, or don't take at all !

Still, I wish you well.

The choir director needs to grow a pair. Everyone on I've served with has controlled the group dynamics by force of will and firm directions. Those who sing out of sync with the group need to be told.

Definitely talk with the director, ideally in some non-confrontational way. Like over coffee or whatever. Lay it out and let him have a chance to deal with it. If he struggles with how, you could ask him what, if anything, you can do to help him.

I wish you well, sorry I can't offer any suggestions.
To me this would just be just another example of what happens in religion as well, not being any different to people anywhere else, people are people, I never expect anything other than that.
I see a church as a place of worship, not Carnegie Hall or a venue for American idol ?
However how you worship is your choice.
Are they there to test you ?

Disclaimer: I'm not a traditional religious person. Given is my personal opinion only.
Take with a pinch of salt, or don't take at all !

Still, I wish you well.


Funny that this...to me anyway, has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It would apply to any music situation.

These boys are 23 and 25. They're also from another country. I recognize cultural differences. I've even tried (in the beginning) to help them find jobs, drive them home from practices....even had them as guests in my home. I think they just don't get it.

I had a long chat with the director this morning over coffee. I think it was good to clear the air. He said he could tell I was upset, but wasn't sure why. Which is the main reason I spoke to him. I didn't want him thinking I was mad at him. I think it was a good decision, because he told me he sort of thought of me as his backup, and thinking about it, I probably am. I'm also doing a bit of guitar, and even mandolin on an Italian Christmas so. And, as I suspected offered to add an additional solo for me. I told him I really didn't want him to change the program for me. I just wanted to let him know I felt a little put off. So I felt somewhat better about that.

He also said, he was planning on talking to them about their lack of any dynamics whatsoever. Apparently, I wasn't the only one that complained of their blasting away.

I'm just really upset by all this, because something that once gave me a lot of joy, is now a source of stress.

I was in a very similar situation, and I had to get out. It ruined going to church for me, because it turned it into a bad experience instead of a good one, and that's wrong. You have every right to be upset about it. Talk to the director, if he won't correct the situation, then tell him you have to pass on the whole situation.

Joe-bob, This stuff happens, and im sorry that this happened to you. this sort of thing happens all the time. Its just my opinion but, please dont let music get in the way between you and God. God, and church are more important. Once, a person didnt go to the altar, because he didnt like the altar call music. i hated to hear that. granted i dont know your situation. And Rev. mike, im glad to hear this situation has gotten to be a little more fully and vertically focused.

It's better to be clear and direct in a gentle way than not do anything. The director needs to take the initiative and speak to the two. When I was much younger I was in a quartet at church. I love singing and still do. Around that same time I had even taken some lessons but didn't know a thing about dynamics in a group. I was the guy who sang out with everything I had to give. The director made some general comments during practice about how we can tone it down, or something to that effect. It just went right over my head and I kept singing loud. I thought that's how it was done. Now I really wish someone had taken me aside and told me what I needed to hear. I would have listened.

Joe-bob, This stuff happens, and im sorry that this happened to you. this sort of thing happens all the time. Its just my opinion but, please dont let music get in the way between you and God. God, and church are more important.

Don't misunderstand; music has not gotten between me and God at all, it's just that church is no longer involved in the process.

Funny that this...to me anyway, has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It would apply to any music situation.
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I had a long chat with the director this morning over coffee. I think it was good to clear the air.<--.

Sorry that you seemed to have misunderstood my comment.
Many people think that religious church people would be above all that sort of situation, and I was saying that:

" is another example of what happens in religion as well, not being any different to people anywhere else,"

Sounds almost the same as what you have just said?
maybe I should have worded that as: happens in religious communities as well

I agree,"has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It would apply to any music situation."

Sounds like you were tested and survived maintaining a peaceful atmosphere ?
You spoke up and it sounds like the problem will be sorted out.
As I said above in my post, "Your opinion is as valid as any other."

In my opinion you did the right thing.
Again, I wish you well.

In my church's contemporary service we had a guy who really sang off key. Instead of hurting his feelings the sound man would just turn his mike off. He never knew the difference.

Don't misunderstand; music has not gotten between me and God at all, it's just that church is no longer involved in the process.

I can relate to your comment.
I have had a few years of various uncomfortable church experiences in the past and I have discovered that 'the church' is most definitely man made, all having their own take on their religion and forever arguing " what is and what should never be "

I wish all well, but I'm yet to find a church of people that are at peace with God or themselves at the same time.

If only people would speak the truth !

IMO - Churches contain the both good and bad and those put there to test you.
I found myself and God and I'm comfortable with God & myself.

So if I can borrow your comment also:

' Music has not gotten between me and God at all, it's just that church is no longer involved in the process '

yes, I like that !

In my church's contemporary service we had a guy who really sang off key. Instead of hurting his feelings the sound man would just turn his mike off. He never knew the difference.


We have a very sweet elderly woman in the choir that does the same thing. We didn't have a mic on her, but she felt singled out. So we got an old mic and put it in front of her. She has no idea that the other end of the long mic cable is just hanging inside a tissue box beside the organ. Sounds mean, but it makes her feel important...and she can make all the "joyful noise" she wants, and everyone is happy.