B-Bender Or Stetsbar

The next step with my experimental Squier CVS is some sort of 'bending device'. I have always had a whammy bar. Gibsons, Strats. Always had one. I feel lost without one. But since this -is- a Tele, I'm wondering if now is the time to try a b-bender.

NOTE: I am not really interested in playing like Clarence or emulating pedal steel riffs. Frankly, I dunno -what- I'll do with it!

I always thought the b-bender required a -lot- of installation and routing. But I was led to believe that Hipshot now makes a bender that requires no routing. ( Now the Stetsbar seems to require some shimming which scares me a bit too...maybe needlessly?)

To decide, I'd like to ask some hopefully quick questions:

1. how much practice does it take to become somewhat proficient with a b-bender? (The b) ... ie to bend in tune, to not get distracted using it. I don't mean -expert-... just basic competence?

2. Is it usual to get the g bender as well?

3. I see there are options to de-tune 2 other strings. Are these common or more like 'optional'?

4. How much apparent weight does it add? It -looks- like a boat anchor?

5. Is the Hipshot version 'as good' as the Parsons model? What's the difference?

TIA!

---JC

Fitting a Stetsbar is astonishingly easy.

Here's how I did mine:

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/25437506

The shim is really simple.

Comparing a B-bender to a Stesbar? It's a bit like comparing a Sports Coupe to an off-road 4 x4. They both do very different jobs but they'll both get you to work if you're using a normal road.

:smile: Peter

1. It took me a few hours to get comfortable with the P/W bender.
The Hipshot took longer for me but I didn't like the hip motion involved in bending.
2. I would get both. I only own a B bender by Forrest Lee Jr. and would like both options.
3.Pretty common with the Hipshot.
4.The P/W bender adds no weight. At least in my case.
5.Less expensive. As I said above, it wasn't for me.
You might also try a Timara bender.
Tim Wallis (the creator) is a member here.
Here's a couple links to help you decide.

http://www.forrestcustomguitars.com/

http://www.timarastringbenders.com/category_s/2.htm

"The Hipshot took longer for me but I didn't like the hip motion involved in bending."

I just don't get this! I have never had to move my hip to activate my Hipshot B-bending lever. The lever is hexagonal, and if set right, all it takes to activate it, is to push the guitar neck slightly forward, straight out, away from you. The guitar pivots, and pushes the lever against your hip. I play mine sitting down very often. No hip movement sitting in a chair, or even on the floor. Install the lever so that it's as close as possible to your body.
Not meaning to be argumentative, but I just don't get this at all!

Personally I think you'd be happier with the Stets bar.

I don't personally own one, but my friend has on on his LP. It is THE BEST Trem device I've ever played. It blows away the Bigsby and a Strat Trem. Very effortless to use and you can set the tension. My only complaint: its kinda ugly.

"The Hipshot took longer for me but I didn't like the hip motion involved in bending."

I just don't get this! I have never had to move my hip to activate my Hipshot B-bending lever. The lever is hexagonal, and if set right, all it takes to activate it, is to push the guitar neck slightly forward, straight out, away from you. The guitar pivots, and pushes the lever against your hip. I play mine sitting down very often. No hip movement sitting in a chair, or even on the floor. Install the lever so that it's as close as possible to your body.
Not meaning to be argumentative, but I just don't get this at all!

I'm not a big fan of the look of the Stets bar or the other systems - especially on a vintage instrument but the big chunk of chrome of the Hipshot doesn't offend my eye somehow.

My problem was that, when set up properly, it was too effortless to engage and I'd end up wondering why my b string was suddenly a tone sharp. I then started unscrewing the bar on songs I wasn't using it but soon got fed up with that too (plus you lose a lot of spontanaity).

I finally it on the perfect (for me) solution. I got a hipsot with a b and g bender - the g is engaged with a little lever that swivels out of the way. I just took the b bender off and moved the g bender over to the b position. The unit also had a lever to drop the low e to d which I kept. I find the action really nice and smoots - much like Bigsby palm pedals (which I have on another guitar) but the lever can be swung out of the way. I'll try to take some pics over the weekend.

IMO, it's apples and oranges.
The learning curve for the bender might be steeper.
Both are brilliantly designed devices.
The Hipshot works great and it easy to install yourself.
The 'bar is fairly easy to install, too.
I've installed lots of 'shots and a couple of 'bars.
If'n ya play country a lot, I'd get the 'shot.

Actually, I just noticed the Stetsbar is completely different from the Hipshot - ones a tremelo the other is a b-bender - but my comments still stand - the Hipsot is the only one that a) isn't offensive to my eye or b) requires extensive routing to the guitar body.

If you are after a tremelo system you could consider a Bigsby - you can get a proper fitting kit for a Tele and it looks really cool. Wouldn't put the screw holes in a vintage instrument but on a vintage style or relic it's the way I'd go.

Well if you wanna bend the b, I'd recommend a b-bender mechanism. If you wanna bend 'em all, the stetsbar. :wink: Apples to oranges my friend. All kidding aside I would look at it like this... traditionally, country guitar players use b-benders and rock/blues use whammy bars. If you asked Brad Paisley he would tell you whammy bars are for sissies but I don't know how one would back that up scientifically. Me? I like em both, look at my avatar.

Mr Twang,
I play the G lever with my wrist, and I'm a fingerpicker, even for Gatton and Hellecaster stuff. I use the three toggles to drop into Low Bass G tuning for bottleneck. Don't have to move my hip. Lever is set to be an inch or so from my hip.

WOW. Thanks for all the posts! This got moved to another forum so I missed the replies.

I have to digest a bit before I ask more questions. Please stay tuned!

Cheers!

---JC

The next step with my experimental Squier CVS is some sort of 'bending device'. I have always had a whammy bar. Gibsons, Strats. Always had one. I feel lost without one. But since this -is- a Tele, I'm wondering if now is the time to try a b-bender.

NOTE: I am not really interested in playing like Clarence or emulating pedal steel riffs. Frankly, I dunno -what- I'll do with it!

I always thought the b-bender required a -lot- of installation and routing. But I was led to believe that Hipshot now makes a bender that requires no routing. ( Now the Stetsbar seems to require some shimming which scares me a bit too...maybe needlessly?)...

There's another option, the Higgins Peg bender. I began with a Hipshot, later gave it up for a whammy bar, later built a P/G, played that for years, then got a peg bender and put it on the tele with whammy. I now have the best of both worlds. If you feel lost without the whammy bar, put on a Stetsbar or similar whammy, then get a Higgins peg bender. It's less weight than a Hipshot, easier to control (IMO) and lets you have a whammy too. More fun than squishin' tadpoles!

My comments, questions from... I'd appreciate any/all replies!

1. AFA Whammy 'look', I cannot -stand- Bigsby's visually. They look like something left over from an Aeroflot. :D So they weren't even a consideration. Different strokes. I actually like the look of the Stetsbar... so long as the installation isn't too bad, that seems fine.

2. I'm very comfortable playing a whammy. I'm thinking of a 'bender' to get outside that zone and play -differently-. I like pedal steel licks, but I definitely don't do 'country'. I have no idea what I'd do with it -yet-... one idea is that I like playing slide, but don't often because of the standard tuning. Perhaps with a bender I could instantly jump from minor to major tuning?

3. I know I don't want a lot of -weight-. The Squier I got is made of cheap, light pine. And I wanna keep it that way. NO BOAT ANCHORS! The Hipshot looks -heavy-... or maybe it just =looks= heavy?

4. The Higgins thing seems -great- BUT it just looks too weird. The idea of a long cable off the headstock seems a bit much for running around on stage.

So... I'd love to get a bending system so long as it's easy to install, not visually odd and doesn't add a bunch of weight. Obviously, I don't care about messing with the guitar a little.

Ideas?

THANKS!

---JC

..I like pedal steel licks, but I definitely don't do 'country'. I have no idea what I'd do with it -yet-...
Please DON'T stereotype pedal steel guitar. Just because it was invented to be used with country music does NOT mean that is all you can play on it! Pedal steel ain't just for country, especially with today's universal tunings. Listen to Mike Perlowin (http://www.mikeperlowin.com/home.html). He plays mostly classical music, on pedal steel. What you use the bender for is anytime you wish to get to a note that is one step above or below the last note, in most any passage of music. It provides an alternate way to get that note, sometimes making it easier than possible with just your fingers. In some cases, it makes bending some notes possible that are impossible to obtain with your fingers.4. The Higgins thing seems -great- BUT it just looks too weird. The idea of a long cable off the headstock seems a bit much for running around on stage.Do what I did. I put black heat shrink tubing over the cable and melted it to the cable. It's really not visible that way, under stage lights.

Please DON'T stereotype pedal steel guitar.

This coming from a guy called 'RayBob' :D

I don't wanna start a fight, but I threw in the disclaimers largely because the posts I've written here until now always presume a 'country' bent (pun intended.) It's just the 'norm' with Tele's. If one posts @ an ES 335 forum, one assumes 'the norm' will be B.B. or whoever.

That steel player is fantastic. Gave me some ideas right there. Thanks for the recommendation!

I'll really have to think about the Higgins deal. I'm reacting to it, like my ex-wife: it's -so- practical, the price is right, but I can't seem to get past the visual thing. ;) <rim shot>.

Thanks,

---JC

The idea of a long cable off the headstock seems a bit much for running around on stage

Dude, with any bender, running around onstage is not a good idea if you wanna stay in tune. You're from Seattle, have you seen the new Kurt Cobain guitar? That might be a viable option since he used to run around onstage and push over drums and such. Here's a link to the new fender jaguar kurt cobain guitar. http://www.fender.com/products/kurtcobain/models.php?prodNo=0143000

That kills me... my ex worked @ a furniture wood supplier that sold very high priced 'distressed' wood... they'd all get in the warehouse and beat on new pine with bicycle chains.

I don't want to 'run' around exactly, but unless Devo needs a guitar player, I don't see it working visually.

So far, the hipshot and the stetsbar seem the front runners. I have several hipshot d-tuners and they seem well made. I just wonder if they're gonna be too heavy.

Thanks,

---JC



Dude, with any bender, running around onstage is not a good idea if you wanna stay in tune. You're from Seattle, have you seen the new Kurt Cobain guitar? That might be a viable option since he used to run around onstage and push over drums and such. Here's a link to the new fender jaguar kurt cobain guitar. http://www.fender.com/products/kurtcobain/models.php?prodNo=0143000

I almost didn't notice, but I checked out the 'Timara' and it seems like -just- the ticket. The only thing... the web site and the videos... make me think the guy really -is- either a bit nuts... or slightly shady. In his videos he makes it to be a joke, but I don't think he realises it's actually a bit disconcerting.

That said... the product -looks- like just what I'm looking for and I -want- to be convinced.

Is anyone out there using it? I'd love to hear some good reviews!

Thanks!

---JC

You might also try a Timara bender.
Tim Wallis (the creator) is a member here.
Here's a couple links to help you decide.
http://www.timarastringbenders.com/category_s/2.htm

Tim is a GREAT guy to do business with. I've bought from him before and what you see is what you get. I've called him at home and he has always answered the phone and my questions. In my book, it doesn't get any better than that. And his sense of humor is just an act. He takes a great deal of pride in his product and workmanship (Made exclusively in America), which is rare these days with a lot of folks opting out for "cheap" imported material. Not Tim! I've used his equipment on stage and it has never failed and usually gets my playing noticed. Give Timara a try. It's a good quality product, simple, inexpensive and you will be supporting a fellow bender player (and member) at the same time.

Thanks for the reference. I -will- call him on Monday. Just judging by the videos the design seems much more elegant than the hipshot or the peg bender.

---JC

Tim is a GREAT guy to do business with. I've bought from him before and what you see is what you get. I've called him at home and he has always answered the phone and my questions. In my book, it doesn't get any better than that. And his sense of humor is just an act. He takes a great deal of pride in his product and workmanship (Made exclusively in America), which is rare these days with a lot of folks opting out for "cheap" imported material. Not Tim! I've used his equipment on stage and it has never failed and usually gets my playing noticed. Give Timara a try. It's a good quality product, simple, inexpensive and you will be supporting a fellow bender player (and member) at the same time.

Here's another alternative - a stringbender made by a guy called Andy Manson.

Pro's - Easy to fit, unobtrusive, folds out of the way for string muting, no irreversable mods.

Con's - you have to use a modern bridge with 6 saddles. You probably break a few more strings than with, say, the Hipshot.

Also a shot of my Tele Custom (a real mid 70's one) with my modified hipshot - b-bender with palm lever instead of hip lever.

Lastly, my Squier with Bigsby palm pedals. As the Bigsby was gold, I used a custom shaped pickguard to save buying gold metalwork to hold the bridge pup and a gold control plate. Never got round to fitting gold tuners though.

Why don't you ship me that gold Bigsby Palm pedal? I've been looking all over God's creation for one of those. I have 7 guitars with BPP's, two of 'em are gold but they're the long 335 style. I have 4 of the solid body versions but they're all the aluminum versions. I like what you did with the Squire by changing the bridge and all....looks good....JH in Va.

Why don't you ship me that gold Bigsby Palm pedal? I've been looking all over God's creation for one of those. I have 7 guitars with BPP's, two of 'em are gold but they're the long 335 style. I have 4 of the solid body versions but they're all the aluminum versions. I like what you did with the Squire by changing the bridge and all....looks good....JH in Va.

I never particularly wanted a gold one. If you wanted to do a straight swap with one of yours I'd be up for it. Can you see how worn mine is though - down to silver at the ends of the pedals.

I guess it would depend on how much they would cost to ship.

Beware, Mr. T.

..Jerry only plays in the key of A
:razz:

FYI,,, I pre-paid Tim to make me a bender. He says it'll be ready next week. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Well, I got the Timara Stringbender. And I ended up returning it.

But I want to comment:
1. As previously said: Tim is a stand-up guy. When I decided it wasn't right for me, he was totally cool about it.

2. The thing -totally- works. It's such a simple thing, it's hard to explain, but although his videos showcase what you can do with it VERY well, they don't give one a sense of -how- it works. It's -very- subtle. I thought one has to yank on it, but that is WRONG. It's like a prosthetic limb: when you have it set up correctly -very- slight twitches are all it takes to make it bend. WONDERFUL.

3. So why did I return it? Frankly, because I can't sit still. :D Or rather, I rock out on stage and I just couldn't find a way to move around and make it work.

In short: if you're a player who stays in one place? It rules. In just a few weeks, I was able to make chords I've never been able to do.

My comments, questions from... I'd appreciate any/all replies!

1. AFA Whammy 'look', I cannot -stand- Bigsby's visually. They look like something left over from an Aeroflot. :D So they weren't even a consideration. Different strokes. I actually like the look of the Stetsbar... so long as the installation isn't too bad, that seems fine.

2. I'm very comfortable playing a whammy. I'm thinking of a 'bender' to get outside that zone and play -differently-. I like pedal steel licks, but I definitely don't do 'country'. I have no idea what I'd do with it -yet-... one idea is that I like playing slide, but don't often because of the standard tuning. Perhaps with a bender I could instantly jump from minor to major tuning?

3. I know I don't want a lot of -weight-. The Squier I got is made of cheap, light pine. And I wanna keep it that way. NO BOAT ANCHORS! The Hipshot looks -heavy-... or maybe it just =looks= heavy?

4. The Higgins thing seems -great- BUT it just looks too weird. The idea of a long cable off the headstock seems a bit much for running around on stage.

So... I'd love to get a bending system so long as it's easy to install, not visually odd and doesn't add a bunch of weight. Obviously, I don't care about messing with the guitar a little.

Ideas?

THANKS!

---JC

you need to get in touch with forrest lee jr. and let him put a bender in your guitar. he had my guitar 3 days. he machines his own benders out of aircraft grade aluminum so it hardly adds any more weight if any at all. its the best 600 bucks ive spent in a long time. getting used to the bender took me a couple days noodling around at home,and this was my first bender. if you go with forrest,you will be happy you did.