reranch white primer

Question: I'm finishing a jazzmaster body in daphne blue, and am in the middle of the prep stage. I applied three coats of behlens sand and seal, sanding back w/ 400 grit after each coat. After cleaning the body off w/ naptha, I just sprayed a couple of coats of reranch white primer. Unfortunately, my spray technique and the aerosol cans doesn't exactly lend itself to a perfect application. So there are some larger droplets in various places after laying of a few coats. Do I just sand these back after it dries and then go ahead w/ the daphne blue aerosol cans? To what grit? wet sand? I obviously want the body to be as perfect as possible before the color coat.

Also, how long do I let the primer dry before sanding?

Thanks.

Depending on the size of the droplets you would normally wet sand with 320 (if there are really big ones), 400, 600 or 800 - I use Micro Mesh pads for most sanding that's 600 and finer. They are 3"x2" 1/8" thin foam pads (there's also a smaller size)with non-loading abrasive on both sides. The grits go from the equivalent of 600 to something like what 12,000 would be and last for months if you take care of them.)

You want to sand it as smoothly as possible, but cautiously so you don't go through the primer (easy to accidentally do on edges). The good part is lacquers melt into previous coats so they are the easiest coating to touch up.

Whether you use pads or paper be careful not to let and balls of coating, dust or anything else get under the abrasive - you can usually feel something caught or rolling around - if so stop right away and rise everything off.

I prefer sanding primers to a glassy finish - makes for far less work with the color coats and clear topcoats if used (and can help reduce material consumption). Some like slightly rougher textures - neither method is wrong, it's just what you get used to doing. I soak the pads for about a minute; wet-or-dry paper for 5-10 minutes.

I put no water on the surface, just whats transferred from the paper or pad. Too little water and it'll often feel kind of scratchy - in that case add a very small amount (1/2-1 teaspoon) of water. You should feel suction between the abrasive and surface, and you need very little (but very even) pressure on the abrasive. With paper I use small flat and curved 1"x2" blocks I've made and only use the paper alone in the cutaways and edges (I primarily use the pads, though).

After sanding wipe everything down with a damp towel at least twice; let it dry for a couple hours (average - longer in cold weather, shorter is ok if it's hot), then clean everything thoroughly with a tac cloth (a buck or so at Home Depot, most hardware stores and all paint stores). This is essential - it'll get any contaminants and residual dust left by sanding, and there's always some there that you can't see.

Then you should be good to go with your color coats. The only caution would be if you see damp areas in the control cavity sides let it dry until those are gone to prevent blushing.

...Unfortunately, my spray technique and the aerosol cans doesn't exactly lend itself to a perfect application....

Ha.

I hold the record for lousy technique.

Here is my first primer coat (also Reranch):

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1037/medium/Cabronota_1_Primer.JPG

Fortunately even with terrible tools and technique, you can still get very good results.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1037/Cabronita_Body_HW.JPG

I just waited overnight after priming and then sort of knocked down any larger drips and smoothed the Orange Peel. Nothing finer than 320 I certainly wouldn't bother wet sanding the Primer - in my opinion wet sanding Primer would be a colossal waste of time. After a few iterations of this I went on to the color coats (also Daphne).

Question: I'm finishing a jazzmaster body in daphne blue, and am in the middle of the prep stage. I applied three coats of behlens sand and seal, sanding back w/ 400 grit after each coat. After cleaning the body off w/ naptha, I just sprayed a couple of coats of reranch white primer. Unfortunately, my spray technique and the aerosol cans doesn't exactly lend itself to a perfect application. So there are some larger droplets in various places after laying of a few coats. Do I just sand these back after it dries and then go ahead w/ the daphne blue aerosol cans? To what grit? wet sand? I obviously want the body to be as perfect as possible before the color coat.

Also, how long do I let the primer dry before sanding?

Thanks.

Don't wet sand yet...that comes later on after everything's done. If you are nervous about the droplets, just knock them down a bit with a sanding block and maybe 400 grit. Lightly. If you are continuing on with more nitro, don't worry to much about things...nitro melts together with successive coats. You will build up enough with your other coats that little bumps won't matter. Wet sanding and fine grit aren't advised this early in the game.

I had a little bit of trouble on one job with a can that spit out chunks....but it turned out good anyway with the technique I mentioned.

Much Thanks for the help!

So I'm guessing (or at least hoping) the color coats spray a little more evenly.

Now, when I do get to the color coats, how long do I wait in between spraying coats, and do I sand or wet sand at all between coats?

Much Thanks for the help!

So I'm guessing (or at least hoping) the color coats spray a little more evenly.

Now, when I do get to the color coats, how long do I wait in between spraying coats, and do I sand or wet sand at all between coats?

With the Reranch cans, you really need to make sure that the nozzles are seated correctly. My poor results above and with my first can of Color were at least partly because the paint wasn't spraying in a nice fine mist. It was coming out in spits and streams. When I got to my second can of Color I finally had a good nozzle and it was amazing how much more evenly the paint went on.

Nitro dries to the touch very quickly. You can easily do three coats in a single session. Don't wet sand between coats. I wouldn't even bother sanding at all in between coats unless you get some really bad runs or other errors. Just wipe it down and apply your next coat. Trust me on this. Getting each coat perfectly smooth would be a complete waste of time and paint. You're far better off building up the paint instead and then getting it smooth at the end.

If you do get a bad run, let it dry completely and then just hit it lightly with some 400.

+ 1 on those nozzles. I get maybe 2 out of 3 that are good. The nozzles on this last batch were mostly junk though. I had to go out an buy some at a local paint store. Now I've got good ones on hand.

I found soaking the ReRanch cans in warm water for 10 minutes before spraying was a tremendous help. Warm lacquer really does flow much better. I got few if any runs.

Also, when you're going to stop for more than 20 minutes or so turn the can upside down, spray against some scrap or cardboard until the line is clear (you'll know when - there's a significant change in what comes out of the nozzle) and store the can(s) upside down. That keeps the line inside the can and the tip clear of pigment and solids, greatly lessening the chance of spits and chunks (or a totally-clogged tip) the next time you spray.

Here is my first primer coat (also Reranch):

Wow - I didn't know ReRanch was making acoustic ceiling patch!

:lol:

store the can(s) upside down
I don't recommend that as the pigment will settle at the "top" of the can where the ball bearing agitator can't reach to mix it. I think the cans should always be stored the "right" way up.

I had a little bit of trouble on one job with a can that spit out chunks..

Yeah, there's more build content in the primers, even when you use a pro gun you'll see this.

I was never afraid of sanding through on the primers. I think since you can easily lay on more coats that much less is at stake. It is once the color goes on over the white, that you absolutely must not sand through. I say, get it out of your system while you can. :wink:

+

I'm doing 2 deck/porches in New Orleans of pressure treated SYP. My first courses were a whitewash of sorts, clear oil base stain combined with a "weathered white" stain. Looked ok, some compliments as I waited 6 months for the wood to mature. But it was really intended so that this tomato soup kinda blend of clear, deep black/red, and more weathered white (3 stains blended in equal portions) could be laid over it to resemble select matched untreated wood with mostly a clear coating over it. It worked. On the few spots hidden underneath where I had not done any weathered white, the effect was quite different and not so cool - I would not have been happy if I had Started with the stuff I am using as the "topcoat" over bare treated wood. And I think these whites underneath can be super important even on an "opaque" finish.

another way of knocking down drips or runs is to take a razor blade.... put a strip of tape at each end, leaving a section open in the middle.... use it as a controlled scraper by holding it vertical over the surface and draw it across
the tape keeps it from drawing across the whole surface and just hits the "raised" area

like this.... it was done with clear tape, but use whatever you are comfortable with

Mike's razor-scraper (rather than "slicer") is similar to a cabinet scraper, which is used the same way but has a tiny "hook" on the edge that you create with a burnishing tool. Learning to prepare and use a cabinet scraper is one of the most valuable skills you can have if you finish wood regularly (and pretty much mandatory if you make guitars with binding). I use them to remove runs like Mike noted, smooth out cutaways and clean up rough wood surfaces. I sometimes use on after applying paste wood filler - the surface ends up smooth as glass.

___________

Steve, I worked for paint manufacturers (all made aerosols) for over 25 years supervising field tech services. The pigment settling at the top is fine. The ball can reach almost all of it. There's actually a smaller "corner" at the top of the can than the bottom, so shaking for too short a time isn't quite as serious as if the can was stored right-side up.

You still want to shake a new can of opaque paint or lacquer for at least 3 minutes after the ball breaks loose, and 2 minutes if you've used in in the last week or so. You should always shake between coats...even passes...to ensure even pigment/binder distribution.

Pigment in the tube and tip is not fine, even though you don't often read advice recommending upside-down storage.

Not all manufacturers recommend storing can upside-down after clearing the tube (or even clearing the tube) because they really don't care if it clogs on you. Rarely will anyone return a half-used can of aerosol paint - so it's more profit for them. Labels and product data are normally drafted by tech support or manufacturing and "edited" and designed by the marketeers. If you talk to most sales reps they don't know either, as they're trained primarily by sales management. Get a good tech on the phone and he/she will tell you upside-down is recommended.

I have a cabinet with about 50 assorted aerosol coatings - every single one upside-down. I've never had a clogged line or tip and have used every bit of pressure in every can I use unless there's a defect (tubes can and do fall off inside the can, but not often).

Also, if you shake a new can for 3 minutes (by the clock) and the ball doesn't bust loose take it back - there's probably no ball inside. It usually only happens to small manufacturers as large ones have have an automated filling line (at least for the stock colors) that kicks any can out that doesn't have the proper weight - it'll detect short fills, no ball, two balls, and no tip.

I put on a few coats of Reranch Daphne Blue (pretty much all of 1 can), and it seems pretty solid to me color-wise, meaning none of the white primer showing through. Here's some pics of that. I didn't get any runs, but do have an orange peel surface w/ some other bumps here and there. If you click on the pics you can see what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure with the aerosol can I couldn't have done much better that I did, so I'm hoping this is normal. (Remember to use the RED nozzle cause the white one sputters). Now, three questions:

1. I have another can of blue, but not sure if it needs more color?
2. How long do I wait before applying the clear coat?
3. Do I knock down the bumps and orange peel first, and if so, with 320? 400? 600?

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/Jazzmaster%20Build/DSC_0446.jpg

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/Jazzmaster%20Build/DSC_0445.jpg

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/Jazzmaster%20Build/DSC_0442.jpg

I put on a few coats of Reranch Daphne Blue (pretty much all of 1 can), and it seems pretty solid to me color-wise, meaning none of the white primer showing through. Here's some pics of that. I didn't get any runs, but do have an orange peel surface w/ some other bumps here and there. If you click on the pics you can see what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure with the aerosol can I couldn't have done much better that I did, so I'm hoping this is normal. (Remember to use the RED nozzle cause the white one sputters). Now, three questions:

1. I have another can of blue, but not sure if it needs more color?
2. How long do I wait before applying the clear coat?
3. Do I knock down the bumps and orange peel first, and if so, with 320? 400? 600?

Since nitro burns into previous coats, I didn't see the need to sand the color coat before applying the clear, but ReRanch does recommend flat sanding when you have orange peel in the color. In your case, if you have an extra can of color, it may not be a bad idea to lay on a couple more coats to avoid sand-throughs.

This should address all 3 of your questions: http://reranch.com/solids.htm

Ditto.

It's not absolutely necessary to sand orange-peel texture color coats prior to application of clear, but it's sure make the clear-coat application/sanding less of a problem. Newbies sometimes will apply a couple clear coats over a non-smooth color, sand a little and go through the clear (especially if the clear is sprayed from a little too far away...there's more of a chance of it following the color's texture than melting-in smoothly), stop, apply more clear, sand, go through the color again...

You can burn through far too much clear while not improving the appearance much. Better to smooth out the color and get the spray technique down than to keep applying material incorrectly.

Thanks again.

I took some 600 sandpaper and knocked down the larger bumps and it looks pretty okay now. It'll need another coat of color since one or two of the bumps pulled out down to the primer. They are small but I'll know they're there. Does the clear coat help the color coat melt/spread a little, since w/ nitro each coat melts into the last?

The other thing I noticed, is that there are places (mostly on the sides and around the horns) that are very smooth and almost don't even need sanding. I'm guessing this happened because of the angle of the spray (the sides didn't get alot of straight on spray), and makes me wonder about spraying the faces at more of an angle to get a smoother application or lay down.

The key is to lay down a few fairly light coats, and then on the final few coats, apply them fairly heavy and wet, but not to the point of causing runs.