Router or Band saw?

Best way to cut your body shape? Router or band saw?

I'm having trouble finding a flush cut router bit (with a bearing) with a min. 2" cutting length that will fit my 1/4" shaft router and router table. I have a small band saw (Ryobi) that I used to rough cut the body blank to the template.

Has anyone just gone ahead and cut to the template with the band saw? Or do you really need to rout it? I'd hate to ruin the blank at this point.

You don't need a 2" cutting length if you have or get a pattern bit, which for a 1/4" shaft usually is available at around 1". This has the bearing at the shaft end. You make your initial depth passes with the bearing on the template, then use the cut surface to run the bearing on for further passes. On a router table, I have the template on the table face, progressively rout up as far as I can raise the router in the table, then flip the body over and change to a flush cut bit for the final passes.

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/products/828738_230.jpg

I'm having trouble finding a flush cut router bit (with a bearing) with a min. 2" cutting length that will fit my 1/4" shaft router and router table.

That's because they don't make them. It's a matter of safety. A 1/4" shaft will never stand up to the abuse a 2" cutter will throw at it.

You can cut close to the line and just sand it. I did this for years. I'm in the minority on this subject in this forum.

You don't need to use a router to cut the perimeter of the body. A spindle sander and belt sander help in this regard, but if you had to, you could just use sanding blocks. That would be quite a bit of work, but is still do-able.

Using a template is a simulation of what is done in industry to get repetitive results. Since most of the build threads on this forum illustrate that process, it is assumed to be the norm and is repeated by new people starting out.

Template routing yields good results, however if you have good skills with other general woodworking tools, the results can still be as good, and sometimes better, as there is no tear out from sanding.

If you have access to a stationary belt sander and spindle sander or a Ridgid Oscillating Spindle sander or similar, you are all set.

Use a pattern to get your perimeter lines drawn and sneak up on the lines. The spot that tends to be the hardest to sand is where the outside curve of the lower bouts meet the inside curve of the waist. You want a nice transition there, so I end up doing quite a bit of hand work to blend them together.

The standard bits used to pattern rout a body perimeter is a 1" long pattern bit ( I prefer the stew mac one, as it is shorter) and a 1" long flush trim bit.

I was ready to answer this but it looks like it's been well covered.

You folks are awesome. Many thanks.

On a related note, is there anything precluding me from making a template out of poplar? I always see people using MDF, almost exclusively. I've got some poplar already glued up, and it's only 2/4-inch thick so I figured I might as well use it for a template, sicne i've read that poplar is easy to work with.

My band saw tires came in so I think I'm ready to embark on a build. I don't have a template though, so it's like a chicken or egg thing. I need a template to make a template (if I wanna use a pattern bit).

90 percent of my templates are pine or poplar plywood. I don't like certain materials, and MDF is one of them. You can use whatever you want. One of the drawbacks to having only a few high profile build threads is that people assume that's the only way to do something. That's not the case in this business. Follow the thread and do what works for you.

Just for discussion purposes, Fender makes one piece necks. Gibson makes 2 piece necks. Peavey made necks split down the middle and reglued back. Some people use a scarf joint on an angled peghead, some people prefer a one piece for the look but realize the drawback of the short grain. There are many ways to skin a cat so to speak and each have their plusses and minuses.

On a related note, is there anything precluding me from making a template out of poplar? I always see people using MDF, almost exclusively.

The nice thing about MDF is that it's dimensionally stable (ie, doesn't get bigger in one direction or warp) and cuts and machines very easily leaving a smooth edge. No chip-out, etc. Nothing stopping anyone from using anything else but somethings are done for good reason.

OTOH if you have other material already prepared you might as well use it.

And in a perfect world, we could all have CNC machines and not worry about templates or the material used to make them. (I would love to have one)

So, it's perfectly feasible for me to make a template with elbow grease, chisels/sanding drums whatever, and the pattern bits for my router, are only used when I have said template up to snuff?

Also, I have no idea how I would make a neck profile. Do people mainly just use rasps and spokeshaves?

And further, my planer is only 12.5 inches, so I can't fit the tele body blank in there to thickness it. I do have a belt sander though, I assume I can use that?

Prepare (2) -7 inch wide boards and edge glue them together. Use your belt sander to sand down any irregularities. You can also make a router sled with a wider base that rides on two parallel pieces of material ( pipe, wood, aluminum angle, steel angle) to thickness your blank.

Read through the contest threads up above. You will see everything you need to know there and a bunch of different ways to do it.

On a related note, is there anything precluding me from making a template out of poplar? I always see people using MDF, almost exclusively.

The nice thing about MDF is that it's dimensionally stable (ie, doesn't get bigger in one direction or warp) and cuts and machines very easily leaving a smooth edge. No chip-out, etc. Nothing stopping anyone from using anything else but somethings are done for good reason.

OTOH if you have other material already prepared you might as well use it.

MDF will swell with humidty, and edges will become weak and detriorate. I typically replace my MDF templates every 3-4 guitar builds.

I use MDF because its cheap and easy to work with.

I've found it to be very stable unless actually exposed to water. I seal the edges of mine with CA or thinned epoxy but you can also just spray 'em with primer.

That said, you're right, they aren't forever...and don't drop 'em on an edge. :mrgreen:

I've found it to be very stable unless actually exposed to water. I seal the edges of mine with CA or thinned epoxy but you can also just spray 'em with primer.

That said, you're right, they aren't forever...and don't drop 'em on an edge. :mrgreen:

Everyone's climate and shop conditions are different, but moisture is a problem in my shop. If I don't use my templates regularly, they will mildew and grow mold.

If you are going to use a router bit to size anything, make sure you are as close to the target line as possible BEFORE using the router bit. Routers are made for taking that last little bit (and I mean little bit) off, not for mass removal of anything.

If you are going to use a router bit to size anything, make sure you are as close to the target line as possible BEFORE using the router bit. Routers are made for taking that last little bit (and I mean little bit) off, not for mass removal of anything.

+1

I was hoping someone would point this out to the OP. The way the question was phrased made it seem like either/or.

Cut out the body with a saw of some kind. It could be a coping saw if you're cheap and crazy. Depending on how close you cut it, sand to the line. THEN use a router and template for the last pass.

If you've never routed anything before, practice by making a master template (cutting with a saw and sanding to the line to make it perfect), and then making working templates. The master is used once, to do final shaping on the working template, then put away. Then use the working template to make some more templates. Use the working templates on your body. Hopefully by that point you'll have a better idea of how the router will react when cutting.

On a related note, is there anything precluding me from making a template out of poplar? I always see people using MDF, almost exclusively.

The nice thing about MDF is that it's dimensionally stable (ie, doesn't get bigger in one direction or warp) and cuts and machines very easily leaving a smooth edge. No chip-out, etc. Nothing stopping anyone from using anything else but somethings are done for good reason.

OTOH if you have other material already prepared you might as well use it.
+1 on the good points about MDF, I use it myself for some templates, but I avoid it as much as possible.

Just one thing to remember about MDF, cutting it creates fine dust and it's carsinogenic. Please wear a respirator or high quality dust mask, clean up well after working with it and bag and dispose of the dust.

I know some people might think that's alarmist talk, and such precautions are over the top, but people used to say the same about asbestos back in the day......

Sucking crap into your lungs probably isn't good no matter what it is.

Everyone's climate and shop conditions are different, but moisture is a problem in my shop. If I don't use my templates regularly, they will mildew and grow mold.

Ewwww... :mrgreen:

I live where it's very dry but use an evap cooler about 7-8 months out of the year which keeps things from being too dry out here.

What does the flush cut bit look like that you guys would recommend?

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/24740-01-200.jpg

Speaking of poplar... is this poplar? I picked up a couple of pieces of 8/4 lumber at a garage sale (along with a really nice piece of mahogany). It could be. Or it could be something else.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m508/ThePumpJockey/100_0264.jpg

Speaking of poplar... is this poplar? I picked up a couple of pieces of 8/4 lumber at a garage sale (along with a really nice piece of mahogany). It could be. Or it could be something else.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m508/ThePumpJockey/100_0264.jpg


I think it looks like poplar. Look at the end grain compared to that on this poplar body...

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af58/andrewlovesgrunge/IMG_5742.jpg

... I seal the edges of mine with CA or thinned epoxy ...
I do the same for the edges and also give the faces a couple coats of shellac. The shellac helps to seal it up and also is a bit more double sided tape friendly.

You can cut close to the line and just sand it. I did this for years. I'm in the minority on this subject in this forum.

You don't need to use a router to cut the perimeter of the body. A spindle sander and belt sander help in this regard, but if you had to, you could just use sanding blocks. That would be quite a bit of work, but is still do-able.

Using a template is a simulation of what is done in industry to get repetitive results. Since most of the build threads on this forum illustrate that process, it is assumed to be the norm and is repeated by new people starting out.

Template routing yields good results, however if you have good skills with other general woodworking tools, the results can still be as good, and sometimes better, as there is no tear out from sanding.

If you have access to a stationary belt sander and spindle sander or a Ridgid Oscillating Spindle sander or similar, you are all set.

Use a pattern to get your perimeter lines drawn and sneak up on the lines. The spot that tends to be the hardest to sand is where the outside curve of the lower bouts meet the inside curve of the waist. You want a nice transition there, so I end up doing quite a bit of hand work to blend them together.

The standard bits used to pattern rout a body perimeter is a 1" long pattern bit ( I prefer the stew mac one, as it is shorter) and a 1" long flush trim bit.

+1 great post

I think it looks like poplar. Look at the end grain compared to that on this poplar body...

I'm thinking you are right. I have two pieces. Enough for several body blanks. Thanks!

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that a router bit follows a template exactly - if the template has anything wrong with it, it will show up on the wood. Therefore a lot of care should be taken in making a template as perfect as possible. If you are only making one guitar it may not be worth it - just make the body with cutting and sanding...

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that a router bit follows a template exactly - if the template has anything wrong with it, it will show up on the wood. Therefore a lot of care should be taken in making a template as perfect as possible. If you are only making one guitar it may not be worth it - just make the body with cutting and sanding...

This is why I do not use plywood or particle board as a routing template. Those bearings will fall into voids in the plywood or sink into soft portions of the plywood, and you end up with indentations or dents in your work piece. MDF will do the same things when the edges deteriorate. Always inspect templates before use. You never know when you accidently dropped or banged the edge.