"Sorry we can't pay you tonight"

Grrr..... . :twisted: :confused: :roll: :cry:

We played at a nice big BBQ restaurant this evening, outdoor patio gig now that the weather is finally cooling off. This was our first time to play here, and the patrons seemed to really enjoy the music too, while they ate their BBQ.

At the end of the night, the Asst Mgr lady says sorry, the owner didn't leave a check, and she couldn't pay us, and to call back in the morning and talk to him then. They have thousands of dollars in cash from BBQ sales, but she can't pay us cause she doesn't have a check.

Which sucks cause I live like 20 miles away from this place and its not convenient having to go back to get our $300 check from the owner bastard. I didn't make a scene or anything but I was pretty pissed. I had to go to the ATM to get the cash to pay our bass player, who was sitting in with us as a favor since our main bass player couldn't make it tonight.

We're supposed to go back next month to play again. Do I demand payment up front when we arrive, or let this one go?

How do you handle not getting paid, or what steps do you take to prevent it from happening. Next time I'll get more specifics ahead of time on these sorts of matters.

Live n learn...

I've had this happen several times, I would tell the "Asst. Manager" that that was not our agreement, and I told our band not to load out, we sat at a table and would not leave, they called the owner at home, told them to pay us, and the next time we played there, I has them sign a contract, and that way we knew where we stand, and never had another problem. If you let them do it once, they'll do it everytime, and at some point, they won't pay you at all. If they can meet the agreement, don't play there again.

At the end of the night, the Asst Mgr lady says sorry, the owner didn't leave a check, and she couldn't pay us, and to call back in the morning and talk to him then. They have thousands of dollars in cash from BBQ sales, but she can't pay us cause she doesn't have a check.

You were being swindled. Zero chance of me leaving without the money.

You were being swindled. Zero chance of me leaving without the money.

I don't think I'm being swindled. I'm sure I'll be able to head back today and get the check.

And what was I supposed to do, refuse to leave? Then they call the cops? I didn't want to get into an ugly situation so I let it go.... But it still sucks.

oh well...

Like you, I'm pretty sure you'll get your money. On the other side of the argument, you can camp out at a table and cause a rukus, or storm out and say "we'll never play here again!" Who does that hurt?

Maybe the resturant owner, but certainly your band. In most towns, places to play and get paid even $300 aren't so plentiful. So, assume the best -- that the owner screwed up and forgot to leave a check, that she'll feel bad (or at least a little sheepish) and will be grateful you handled it on the down-low. Establish a good working relationship with the place.

And, when you pick up the check, tell the owner she owes you a free side of those baby back ribs!

These days businesses are really doing the OPM game alot. (other peoples money)
Some of these guys really get off on sticking it to the little guy. I have worked for many of them. I have caught them in private calls to their partners or friends retelling how they got over on someone. This is nothing new but still S*cks. Some people are most happy when they are squashing other people. Pretty sad state of affairs.

I think you need to have a talk with the owner and explain to him in a calm and professional way how he inconvenienced you--the second trip, the ATM to pay the bass player (although I guess you'd have the same problem if you were paid by check.)

Treat the situation as if you were one of his suppliers--the soda guy or the linen service--and he'll likely appreciate the professional tone. (The guy who sells him Dr. Pepper may refer to him among the "owner/bastard" to his own friends, but is friendly and courteous when he talks business to the owner.)

Since it was the first time, give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that writing a check for you was one of the 1,583 things he had to do to keep the restaurant going that week, and was one of the 74 he forgot.

And, since he wasn't there, start and end the conversation with "What a great place you have here and the food is really good and people really liked our music and we're really looking forward to playing next month. If you're going to be here, we'll be happy to do a request for you."

It sounds like it was a nice gig and it'd be a shame to lose it over what might have been a small misunderstanding.

Obviously if it continues, that's a different matter.

(FWIW, give that asst mgr. some slack too. I'm sure that she doesn't have the authority to dip into the till to pay "suppliers" any more than the asst manager at McDonalds would dip into the cash drawer to pay the meat guy on her own authority. She was just doing her job, and your dipping into the cashbox solution might very well have cost her that job.)

Allen st. john, that was just beautiful. Thing is, if it was just a mistake, and you spend a few minutes talking with him, you could end up making a friend out of this, and keep a venue to play at.

We had a run-in with a venue manager that kept wanting us to pay an opening act out of our money. Deal was, we didn't even know the guys, we didn't tell them to play there, nothing. Yet one of the three managers there kept insisting we pay them. HUH!??! Finally our band leader told him we'd just pack up and leave...manager finally decided to pay them out of his own pocket rather than lose his band.

Pretty sure we won't be back and that's a shame too, great venue.

A couple of weeks ago we played a very small bar (50-75 people)
where the room was so small I had given the owner a very good price
for the night. at the end of the night when it came time to pay us the
guy calls me aside & says you need to give me a break in the price
because there wasn't many people here tonight. I politely but very
firmly told him i wasn't settling for less than we agreed upon. He finally
gave in but also saying we would never play here again. His routine might
have worked with a young band just starting out fearing the loss of a gig
but we're a bunch of old guys still doing it for the love of music.

If it is too far and too much trouble to drive, you could always have him mail you the check. Should get there in a day.

Most states have a law against "theft of services". Once when I was a policeman (many moons ago) we were called by a band to a bar where the owner refused to pay. We explained that we'd hafta take him off to jail for the night until he could make bond the next day if he didn't pay what they had agreed on. He then pulled a roll of bills from his pocket that made me wonder why I got into law enforcement and paid the band right then. He was not happy about it. I don't think that the band ever played there again but they were paid that night for their services.

had the same thing happen to my band once!! we unplugged the big digital jukebox in the corner and rolled it up on our trailer. the owner was told that if he didnt show up in 30 min. with our money,we would take the jukebox in payment,sell it and pay the band. he showed up 10 minutes later with our money.im sure they wouldnt take too kindly to a customer eating there and saying oops we forgot to pay for our food. that crap dont fly with me.

Just play thrash metal at the next booking...

I wouldn't blow off the gig over this, but when you show up for the next one, ask for the check when you get there. You've shown up, obviously you're going to play, and there is no reason to not give you the check. If the "oh, my, forgot to leave check" excuse comes up again, time to make a decision. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. "Forgetting" twice in a row isn't really forgetting, is it? Personally, if it happens again, I'd pack up the band, go for some beers and BBQ somewhere else, and blow the place off.

Let us know the outcome of this Saga .

Hey, at least it looks like you're getting paid. I've heard lots worse.

Causing a scene screams "hack" as much as audible tuning between songs. If you're playing for money, that night you are a pro, and you act as such. Good on you for not getting ruffled.

Be businesslike. Talk to the owner, on the phone if the travel's too much. Explain the inconvenience (the atm bass player thing isn't really an inconvenience, as if you were being paid by check you'd have to pay him out of pocket anyway.) Discuss future arrangements...if you want to demand payment up front, that's your call...

Good luck. This sounds totally resolvable.

Yeah ,Big Bend Let us know how this worked out

When it comes to money, No one forgets their debts. ***** heads are ***** heads. You guys are a little too forgiving. I understand not wanting a venue to be lost for future bookings but business owners are not the kind of people who forget who they owe.
Sorry if I sound like an *sshole about this but I have been on the short end of the stick too many times to give them excuses for not paying. Also it was lame to make the assistant MGR. have to greet the band with the lame excuse that the owner forgot to leave a check. My superior does that to me every now and then and I can assure you he didn't forget, he just lied about having the money or it needed to be used to pay some other essential service, like the food purveyor or the liquor distributor. Well that's about it. Maybe I'm in the minority with my opinion but I hate seeing people shafted.

I'm with Allen st. John and Jazztele on this.
You'll get your money. But very diplomatically ... make sure that scenario doesn't happen again. This isn't a reason to never play there again.
*When it's happened to me (more than once but never at the same club), a waiter/waitress or asst.manager has informed PRIOR to actually playing or setting up. Make contact so to speak before hauling in your gear.

I have had venues cash their own checks for me, so the ATM story is kind of valid. Hard to know if it is a legit slip or deliberate. Let us know if you get the check today.

Fortunately, the band I worked with (and the venues) per professional enough to have all that sort of thing in the written contract, and there never was a problem.

As for an owner saying you'll have to take less because you don't draw... It's absolutely correct to insist on being paid what you agreed on, and being nice after you get paid about not appearing there again. After all, if you're such a poor draw, why would you get hired back?

The worst venues (at least here when I was doing it) were the cut-of-the-door places. Somehow a packed house only meant 50 people or so. The solution to that (for the bands desperate enough to play those places) was to have someone from the band (usually a friend) at the door with a counter.

Yep, good advice about being diplomatic. I'd also make sure to inquire (politely) about the presence of a check before the first set next time you play there, and politely refrain from playing any music until the matter is resolved if there isn't a check ready!

Tim

Good news, alls well that ends well.

The owner called me back about 10:45 am this morning.. I could tell right away he knew he had made a mistake, and felt bad about it. I took the high road and said no problem, these things happen... Its a beautiful day I'll just ride my motorcycle over and pick up the cash. No prob he says.

So thats what I did, rode over, and actually met the owner for the first time. My previous dealings were with the assistant. He was a super nice guy, I was the professional band leader, we got along great. I could tell he was appreciative by the way I handed this.

And the real good news is that they are trying to expand their catering line, and at the bottom of their catering menu they just added a line that said "We can book your entertainment too". I think our band just shot to the top of the list of people he will call when he needs to find a band for a catered event. Woohoo! So maybe cause of this little incident, we're going to get extra nice gigs down the road that might not otherwise have happened.

So ya alls well that ends well. Thanks for the comments everybody! Especially about staying cool and not making a scene. Definitely the way to go.


Take care...

I was doing a one night fill in with these guys one time and that happened.

The band leader simply said "Oh well! lets go boys!"

Then we got to the truck and he said " Reach in that glove box and hand me my pistol!" and went back in.

20 of the longest minutes of my life later, he walked back out smiling and said "Line up boys! Its PAYDAY!"

I never did find out what happened and probably didn't want to know!

GREAT NEWS!!!

Good news, alls well that ends well.

The owner called me back about 10:45 am this morning.. I could tell right away he knew he had made a mistake, and felt bad about it. I took the high road and said no problem, these things happen... Its a beautiful day I'll just ride my motorcycle over and pick up the cash. No prob he says.

So thats what I did, rode over, and actually met the owner for the first time. My previous dealings were with the assistant. He was a super nice guy, I was the professional band leader, we got along great. I could tell he was appreciative by the way I handed this.

And the real good news is that they are trying to expand their catering line, and at the bottom of their catering menu they just added a line that said "We can book your entertainment too". I think our band just shot to the top of the list of people he will call when he needs to find a band for a catered event. Woohoo! So maybe cause of this little incident, we're going to get extra nice gigs down the road that might not otherwise have happened.

So ya alls well that ends well. Thanks for the comments everybody! Especially about staying cool and not making a scene. Definitely the way to go.


Take care...

Great to hear it.
If the guy was really a jerk trying to rip you off, there's plenty of opportunity to tell him off. But it sounds like he was just a guy who spazzed on doing something and felt bad about it.

FWIW, I had a similar situation recently. Magazine screwed me out of some money, and while I wasn't happy, I didn't completely burn my bridges there. And because of that my editor gave me a tip that could easily earn me my money back 100 times over.

"actually met the owner for the first time. My previous dealings were with the assistant. He was a super nice guy, I was the professional band leader, we got along great. I could tell he was appreciative by the way I handed this."


Shooting from the hip maybe was not the best choice, but at least thinking it.... may well have been good venting. ;)

"actually met the owner for the first time. My previous dealings were with the assistant. He was a super nice guy, I was the professional band leader, we got along great. I could tell he was appreciative by the way I handed this."


Shooting from the hip maybe was not the best choice, but at least thinking it.... may well have been good venting. ;)


Ya, the owner was definitely not a "bastard".. my bad, just venting. I apologize.

The bar and restaurant owners these days have a hard time making a profit, its a tough business. This guy was great tho. I hope he does well.. and he keeps hiring bands to play. :grin:


Great to hear it.

FWIW, I had a similar situation recently. Magazine screwed me out of some money, and while I wasn't happy, I didn't completely burn my bridges there. And because of that my editor gave me a tip that could easily earn me my money back 100 times over.

Wow good luck!! If that works out maybe you can get a new telecaster. :lol:


take care...

I've had this happen several times, I would tell the "Asst. Manager" that that was not our agreement, and I told our band not to load out, we sat at a table and would not leave, they called the owner at home, told them to pay us, and the next time we played there, I has them sign a contract, and that way we knew where we stand, and never had another problem. If you let them do it once, they'll do it everytime, and at some point, they won't pay you at all. If they can meet the agreement, don't play there again.

+10db!!!

Ya, the owner was definitely not a "bastard".. my bad, just venting. I apologize.


No, you are/were totally entitled to vent, and here among your piers... maybe the best place. Your professionalism is obvious and admirable in the chair from which I am typing.. :cool:

Check Schmeck! Unless it's a big corporate client and the fee is big, CASH IS KING!! $300 should have been taken out of the cash register to pay you. Any decent manager, assistant or otherwise, would do that immediately.

I had a bartender delay paying us for nearly an hour after the show ended just recently,l with 8 impatient and tired band members waiting anxiously!! The off duty manager was sitting at the bar having a drink so after 30 seconds of talking to him I got the band paid. He was apologetic, he certainly doesn't operate like that when he's working.

What I'll often do, but forgot to do that night, is withdraw enough cash to pay everyone from the band bank account on my way to the gig, pay them at the end of the night, then collect the payment, take my cut, and deposit the rest back into the bank.

You should also start to pay the band as a seperate member/entity an equal cut so you can build up some money for band expenses like posters, photos, demos, etc., and to cover the issue of paying the band members right after the gig.

After the other night I'm going to start talking to the bartender/manager before the last set to set aside our payment so that as soon as we're done I can grab the envelope, count it and be on our way!!

Good Luck and remember that your band's job is keeping the patrons entertained and in the bar drinking and eating all night long, and the venue's job is to pay you immediately unless a different arrangement was agreed to beforehand.

You can also state as a term, x$ cash at end of show or x$+25% cash or check beyond show close.

so, does this mean I'm supposed to cancel the upper decker when I visit?

Most states have a law against "theft of services". Once when I was a policeman (many moons ago) we were called by a band to a bar where the owner refused to pay. We explained that we'd hafta take him off to jail for the night until he could make bond the next day if he didn't pay what they had agreed on. He then pulled a roll of bills from his pocket that made me wonder why I got into law enforcement and paid the band right then. He was not happy about it. I don't think that the band ever played there again but they were paid that night for their services.

Well, at least you were on the right side of the law.

Had a bar owner try to weezle a band I was in because our singer (a guy in his mid 70's) had inadvertantly said goodnight at the end of our 3rd set, but nobody in the crowd even noticed. He tried to screw us out of half the agreed upon price, so I offered to take him outside. Yeah, I was pissed. The bar owner threatened to call the sheriff, upon which our singer started to laugh. Turns out the sheriff at the time was one of his best friends.

Final upshot, the owner's girlfriend, who was incredibly drunk, took a swing at me. I side-stepped it and told the owner either pay up or stand up, and he wrote us a check on the spot. The only brigth spot of the whole night was the drummer took 300.00 dollars from him on a poker machine during a break. We never played there again, but it cost him 700.00 to get rid of us!

Justin

Bar owner:"Sorry we can't pay you tonight".
Me: Good thing I brought a sleeping bag. Looks like I'll be stayin' the night.
:lol:

I like Randy's story about the bar stools and tables. Tell it again!:cool:

Contract,contract,contract..in plain English and signed by both partys..When I played private partys my contract read that we got paid in full at the end of the first set.No money ment we pack up..Too many times the person with the money had left before the party was over and that means Running it down then getting it to each band member..
Of course you have a little different situation..You have a chance to play there again so you want a good relationship with the manager..That starts with clear understanding on both sides..It sounds like you failed to establish that understanding..Lesson learned..
Another thing you MUST NEVER do is accept a check as payment unless they will cash the check right now and there..Otherwise it means that you have to go to the bank and then run all arond to each band member to pay them..Some bar owners want the check deal to show a paper trail..Understanable,but make 'em cash it...
I ran my own band for many years with zero problems because I had seen the guys that I had worked for make all those mistakes..

I like Randy's story about the bar stools and tables. Tell it again!:cool:

Chris! Great memory! ha ha, I told that story a couple of weeks ago to a group of people I knew it would shock... and several people laughed in a way that I could tell was liberating.

a player has just gots to get paid!

I also would go for the upper decker...or maybe right on the dance floor.

I also would go for the upper decker...or maybe right on the dance floor.

I knew a guy who specialized in 'the chicken wing' treatment... so subtle, so huge, so long lasting...

it makes black mold look like a wet fart in a windstorm.

ive camped out many a time when some one supposedly forgot to leave a check.point is if its an old club they dont forget that kinda thing because they have bands there all the time. my favorite kinda club owner is the well you didnt bring many people in to night kinda owner. when i hear that i just smile and proceed to take him to task on the subject because the owners that ussualy say that are new to the buisness i just let em know hey we are a cover band its not our job to get people in here .now if we were an original act with a following then it may look bad on us if no one shows up

ive camped out many a time when some one supposedly forgot to leave a check.point is if its an old club they dont forget that kinda thing because they have bands there all the time. my favorite kinda club owner is the well you didnt bring many people in to night kinda owner. when i hear that i just smile and proceed to take him to task on the subject because the owners that ussualy say that are new to the buisness i just let em know hey we are a cover band its not our job to get people in here .now if we were an original act with a following then it may look bad on us if no one shows up

That's really not always the case.I was a cover band and I had a following that followed from bar to bar..Some as far as 40 miles or more..Knew all of their names and favorite tunes..I called them when I moved to another bar and they would come..Lotta work but it paid off good..

the assumption here is that they were trying to screw the band. It really does not matter if they took in $5 or $5000 in cash for BBQ. What matters is that the PAY arrangement was not discussed ahead of time. I have played multiple clubs over the years where the owner was not there and the on site manager was not aware of details and said we had to wait for the owner. After a few of those it became obvious to me as I started booking that the last and final detail was " Please have a check ready , and who will be responsible if you are not there". When I arrived at the club I spoke with the on site manager each time to confirm the arrangement, before we played and before we even set up.

Think of it another way...what if the on site manager had no clue that a band was getting a check , already been paid etc..and then gave them another $500 in cash. A majority a clubs that we play want a signed check before they give us cash for the night...it is their receipt.

It's really up to the band leader to make arrangements and not assume that the owner of the club will be there at the end. This detail is equally important as bringing gear to the club.

My first thought reading this was "check?" Huh? But the person onsite not calling the owner, getting the details and paying you cash is just unacceptable. The guy delivering the beer can just load it back up. The problem is, you can't take back the last 4 hours. I would have said something like, well, the beer cooler ought to cover it. You can buy it back on craigslist for $300 (if you're quick enough) and we'll be good.

Chris! Great memory! ha ha, I told that story a couple of weeks ago to a group of people I knew it would shock... and several people laughed in a way that I could tell was liberating.

a player has just gots to get paid!

It's a great story. And it let's me know what kind of guy you are. I like it!

That's really not always the case.I was a cover band and I had a following that followed from bar to bar..Some as far as 40 miles or more..Knew all of their names and favorite tunes..I called them when I moved to another bar and they would come..Lotta work but it paid off good..

but my point being in general its not a cover bands job to bring a following . because all the songs we play can be played on the juke box sure every band has a few followers but as a cover band its not your job to fill up the mans club .

but my point being in general its not a cover bands job to bring a following . because all the songs we play can be played on the juke box sure every band has a few followers but as a cover band its not your job to fill up the mans club .

Agree aboslutly,,I see your point but in my case the main reason for hiring me was the following that I had. It was definatly not because we were a great sounding band..The 20 to 30 people that followed us sure didn''t fill the house but it plugged a big hole...And they were spenders...My job was to sell drinks and I learned, from the old timers that broke me in, how to do just that.:smile:
That's why I said it's not "always" the case..

Happened to us once. Packed the house. Played the whole night. Packed up...bartender said the manager never told him anything about paying the band. "Really? Get the manager on the phone." So...he called one of 2 owners (not the one who booked us), who also said..."no way". After much screaming and yelling, the owner finally said, "give'em $50 and get out of there, and tell them never to come back". So...our bandleader (perhaps not so smartly, but hey...) picked up the bartender's cell phone and smashed it against the wall. We put the word out to all other bands, and everyone we knew that they were jerks. The place closed a few weeks later.