How to run a professional band

A recent thread about rehearsing and preparing for gigs got me thinking about similar issues and I thought I'd explain my situation and post some of my questions.

I have played in many bands since I was a teenager and made some money with it but I've never made my living as a musician. I've made my living as an audio engineer and recently I've gotten very serious about playing live again. I would rate my skill level below the top notch pro level but above the average weekend warrior bar band level. For the music I play I can hold my own. I need to play with top level musicians or it is not interesting for me.

I plan to put together a new band soon and I'm sure it won't be the last time I go through the process so I want to really think about getting things right from the very beginning. I know some good players that might be interested but I don't think I'll have the luxury of doing many rehearsals with them. I just need to book gigs and they'll be there. My focus is on playing good music but I want to make sure everybody gets paid otherwise they won't be able to stick around and they won't take me seriously.

What I'd like to do is get them together once to record a video demo that I can use to book the band. Then, assuming I get some gigs for the right money, I need to make sure everyone is ready with maybe 1 or 2 rehearsals. What is the best way to make sure everyone is prepared?

This will be a classic and modern soul/r&b cover band. We'd need a minimum of 30 songs to do the gigs I have in mind, really 40 or more would be much better.

I plan to provide very organized song lists as well as links to and CD's of all the songs. This would be all I'd need to be prepared but experience has shown me that most people, even so called pros, don't do as much homework as they should. Sure, they will know the rough idea of the songs but maybe not be certain of the form, where the solos are, where the chorus repeats or is cut in half, etc. Maybe I just have not worked with the right pros? Can I really expect people to show up and play 30-40 songs right with very little rehearsal?

Maybe I need to chart things out? I don't really know how to do that and I was hoping someone could explain or point me to some examples of charts that would work for this.

For a guy to learn 30 to 40 tunes you have to sort of promise a lot of gigs and or pay for rehearsals.

Have charts ABSOLUTELY of all the tunes - in a notebook or folder, numbered, in the correct key you want to do them in and with the correct form. A pro can then do the gig with no rehearsal. Also, try finding guys that you think already know most of the tunes you wanna do - ? You know, 'good casting' so to speak.

Don't link to youtube or send mp3's. Send a CD. It's one less step for the player. Or, at least ask up front what format they'd like it in.

If you want more than one (maybe two?) rehearsal before a gig, pay them - $40.00 per rehearsal is fairly standard. They'll learn the tunes for a paid rehearsal before a paid gig. It shows you're serious.

*I've posted many chart examples here. If your interested I'll find some and post more.

For a guy to learn 30 to 40 tunes you have to sort of promise a lot of gigs and or pay for rehearsals.

Have charts ABSOLUTELY of all the tunes - in a notebook or folder, numbered, in the correct key you want to do them in and with the correct form. A pro can then do the gig with no rehearsal. Also, try finding guys that you think already know most of the tunes you wanna do - ? You know, 'good casting' so to speak.

Don't link to youtube or send mp3's. Send a CD. It's one less step for the player. Or, at least ask up front what format they'd like it in.

If you want more than one (maybe two?) rehearsal before a gig, pay them - $40.00 per rehearsal is fairly standard. They'll learn the tunes for a paid rehearsal before a paid gig. It shows you're serious.

*I've posted many chart examples here. If your interested I'll find some and post more.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

I do intend to have a lot of gigs. Once I get a demo I can use to book gigs with I won't even call the guys until I have paid gigs and can tell them how much they'll be making. I won't be able to pay for rehearsals, at least not initially. Maybe I have to re-think that and figure out a way to do the paid rehearsal before the paid gig because I can certainly see how they would take it much more seriously that way. I guess it depends on what kind of gigs I can book.

Either way, it's going to be little or no rehearsal time so I need to make some good charts. I will try searching your posts to find some examples but if you get a chance would you mind posting some or maybe just links to what you've posted before?

One thing I don't like about the chart thing is now I'll have to have music stands on stage, right? That sucks. I guess you can't have everything.

Nashville notation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_chart#Nashville_notation) is a great method of charting songs. It involves only the most basic understanding of music theory and is easily learned by others, literally overnight.

I play with a Nashville couple that performed down there and brought it back with them. This way the song can be done in ANY KEY since the chord changes/progression remain absolute.

The accompanying attachment shows and example of how it's utilized.

http://www.learnandmaster.com/images/News/nashvillenumbersystem.jpg

I don't know, that Nashville thing seems like it would take some getting used to. For me anyway. Don't get me wrong, I see the advantage of it but for me it actually requires a little more thought than just transposing the letter names. I did work with a guy once who only knew those numbers, he didn't know letter names. It was a minor challenge to communicate that way for me but he was really good and had a great ear.

By the way, why is it called the Nashville number system? Isn't it just degrees of a scale or something like that?

Anyway, chord naming is not my main concern but I will keep that system in mind and maybe use both. My main issue is finding a simple way to write out the form, structure, arrangement stuff. Something that's fairly easy for me to do and for others to read.

Looking closer at the chart NewOldStock posted, the structure of it, I'm wondering if something like that is best or something more like what is at the bottom of this page (though not just for drums):

http://www.easydrumchart.com/Step%20One.pdf

Learning that system makes things much easier, and a most pros think that way. In a major key 1,4 and 5 are major, 2,3 and six are minor, and the 7 is diminished.
Make sure to also mark the bars in a chart. A pro can work out cord changes quickly, but he needs to know how many bars for each chord.
A 12-bar:
1¦1¦1¦1
4¦4¦1¦1
5¦4¦1¦1

Save tonight:
6¦4¦1¦5

Hey Good lookin:
1¦1¦1¦1
2(maj.)¦5¦1¦5

Here's some chart examples that "I" think would be perfect for what you want to do ...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b22V7uoRBW8/ShwXGqK3-oI/AAAAAAAABaU/4JroFDG0mwU/s512/it%252527s%252520your%252520thing%252520pg.1.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_dMgPv-tF0E/ShwXG439AZI/AAAAAAAABaY/aL_FLFMcBms/s512/little%252520sister.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TneUWH9Q5GQ/SbSIBynk6wI/AAAAAAAABK8/r1ASUex1CU4/s512/Wichita%252520LM%252520chord%252520chart.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hVoW8Kbv8w8/SbH8oqTvqeI/AAAAAAAABFY/2Vo7FjLaeB8/s512/mcclain%252520chart.jpg

*Even something like this is fine as long as it's clear and correct ...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jF34-m6TThk/TahxWiUFW4I/AAAAAAAACYM/ICP7VJxocBE/s512/img001.jpg

One thing I don't like about the chart thing is now I'll have to have music stands on stage, right? That sucks. I guess you can't have everything.

It'll totally depend on the amount of gigs you get.
If you end up working once or twice a week - they'll memorize the stuff they don't already know fairly quickly. The great thing about charts is that if somebody can't do a gig you've got a book that a pro sub can read down no problem. The gig goes smoothly and nobody's the wiser.

Here's some chart examples that "I" think would be perfect for what you want to do ...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b22V7uoRBW8/ShwXGqK3-oI/AAAAAAAABaU/4JroFDG0mwU/s512/it%252527s%252520your%252520thing%252520pg.1.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_dMgPv-tF0E/ShwXG439AZI/AAAAAAAABaY/aL_FLFMcBms/s512/little%252520sister.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TneUWH9Q5GQ/SbSIBynk6wI/AAAAAAAABK8/r1ASUex1CU4/s512/Wichita%252520LM%252520chord%252520chart.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hVoW8Kbv8w8/SbH8oqTvqeI/AAAAAAAABFY/2Vo7FjLaeB8/s512/mcclain%252520chart.jpg

*Even something like this is fine as long as it's clear and correct ...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jF34-m6TThk/TahxWiUFW4I/AAAAAAAACYM/ICP7VJxocBE/s512/img001.jpg

Thanks, the first one happens to be one I need!

Unfortunately, it's what I was afraid of - I have to learn how to read.:oops:

Yeah, I guess it's about time.

It'll totally depend on the amount of gigs you get.
If you end up working once or twice a week - they'll memorize the stuff they don't already know fairly quickly. The great thing about charts is that if somebody can't do a gig you've got a book that a pro sub can read down no problem. The gig goes smoothly and nobody's the wiser.

Yes, I can see this is the way it has to be - no question about it.

If they are pro's, Nash. number system or standard notation would be the norm and probably expected. Not calling performers until a gig is booked usually backfires due to they probably have something booked already. Pro level guys aren't going to learn material note for note from a cd/recorded material unless it's a MAJOR touring gig, not to mention that leaves no room for improv or personality. Classic or modern soul/r&b needs room to grow on stage or else it becomes lifeless and boring to the performers.

I'm not looking for note for note anything. It just has to feel right and we have to know where the song is going.

Here's another thing and another way to look at the cost v. benefit to doing 'prep' work ...

I, as well as most (probably all?) of the guys I work with out here, will do a $40.00, 3 set gig if they know that the book is well done (i.e., easy to read, correct, no missing pages) and that the other players are gonna be good. For a $100.00 gig - we'll even do a rehearsal ;)

*if at all possible, keep your charts to no more than two pages. Have them taped together to open out or, if they're in a notebook, the two pagers should open out.

I do 3-ring binders with simple lead sheets mostly for rock and blues, since so few guitar and bass players can actually read music. :mad: :mad:

These consist of the full lyrics with chords above the appropriate places. Verses are labeled: V.1, V.2, V.3, or v.1, v.2, v.3, etc., and the chorus is labeled as well. In parenthesis are other instructions: (repeat chorus), (tag and fade), etc. :wink:

I'm taking all of this stuff in and I plan to get started soon. I was talking to a pro trumpet player and he confirmed a lot of what we're talking - how basically this is the pro way to do it, good players will be more likely to work with me if I have good charts, etc.

It's true a lot of guitarists and bass players don't read (uh... like me!) so it probably would be good to have those simple lead sheets too.

We don't pay for rehearsals. Every band member keeps his/her own book of whatever works - charts, tabs, lyric sheets with chords, whatever.

We often purchase charts for the band, but often there's only horn lines, so the "combo" part of the band sometimes learns parts from the original track.

We do all our booking using an online calendar. People book out days they are not available with the understanding that any non-booked out days are available for me to book shows as they come up. It's WAY EASIER than emails flying around!

Rehearsals are for tweaking arrangements, making corrections, and rehearsing new songs, with the understanding that everyone arrives prepared. We used to rehearse weekly but are now down to one rehearsal a month, just to work on new songs.

Because of the nature of a large band, over time people do come and go, so bands photos now are inserted into a collage style format so it can easily be changed rather than spending a boatload of money on a group shot that suddenly one day is no longer current.

Our set lists are quite detailed but once you've made a couple it's easy to move things around.

It sounds like you've got things well planned! Good luck!!

All you need for the non-readers is a good chord chart with the correct form.

Oakville Dave's approach is quite similar to ours. We have a large band (7 pc.), and use spreadsheets to layout solo orders, key sigs. and instrument changes. It's a must when you have 4 diiferent soloists and multiple combinations of them, depending on the song.

Here's the one we'll use tonight:

95786

We also use Google calendar to organize and block out dates for gigs.

As far as rehearsal goes, we try to get the full band in for one before every gig (we gig about once a month), but getting 7 schedules to coincide is often difficult. Rehearsals are not to teach people the song, they're expected to learn it on their own. Rehearsals are for fine-tuning vocal harmonies and rhythmic accents specific to the song, that (we hope) make us sound like a BAND, not just 7 guys who happened to get together to make a few bucks at a gig.

Nashville numbering is the most basic form of theory there is. I knew Johnny B Goode was a 12 bar blues with 1-4-5 in it when I was 12. If you don't know 1 is the root you probably need to be just the singer.

Go back up and look at the hand written "chord chart". It's in G right? Ok, what happens when you decide well, I actually need to do it in Bb? If it's a "number chart" the you just slide up. Yeah, a lot of us deal with this stuff all the time and can transpose on the fly but it's kind of like you're wife griping all the frikkin' time. You can listen and deal with it but it's so much easier just to put in earplugs.

I usually do my own number charts but if you hand me chords and we need to do it NOW then I will. If you hand it to me on break I'm writing my own. There
s really nothing complicated to learn. If you're in G you should know when you go to the 4....I mean C.

I've always understood the idea of the number system too, in the same way you mentioned Johnny B. Goode is 1-4-5. I just never really used that system much. To me it's more like G is to C as Bb is to Eb, and so on. I guess my way is kind of a visual system, looking at where things are laid out on the fretboard and the number system is based on theory which is what makes it better. I know my ways are not ideal and they limit what I can do as a musician which is why it's time for me to learn the right way.

Once I realized the limitations I had I was already a halfway decent player so it was hard to go back and learn how to read by starting with things like "Mary Had a Little Lamb", you know?

Once I realized the limitations I had I was already a halfway decent player so it was hard to go back and learn how to read by starting with things like "Mary Had a Little Lamb", you know?

That's what headphones are for.

Number charts are cool too.
*I live in los angeles so ... roman numerals sometimes.
The type of examples I posted (I have found both as a player and as a leader) are super clear and easy to read and no one ever makes mistakes. A side guy will LOVE to play with you and even play 'cheap' when you have an organized book.

Once I realized the limitations I had I was already a halfway decent player so it was hard to go back and learn how to read by starting with things like "Mary Had a Little Lamb", you know?

Sorry, I don't know that one. Have you got a chart?

Another great example of how the Nashville method is useful: the 4-chord song. If you know it as D > A > Bm > G, what happens when someone says let's do it in F? Not that any rational guitarist would ever call something in F. But how quickly will you know that it should be F > C > Dm > Bb? If, instead, you know that it's 1 5 6m 4, you can play it right away in any key without having to think about it. It's gold, Jerry, GOLD!

It's all about what you're used to. Numbers, letters, tarot symbols if that's what you wanna use - ?
Out here we do it with letters ... F, Dm, G7, etc.
When you're used to it, it's just as fast.
I'm actually faster transposing with letters than numbers of any kind.

*Frankly, for a guitar player, transposing in any way, shape or form should be really easy. It's one of the few things on our instrument that's probably easier than on any other instrument.

I don't know, that Nashville thing seems like it would take some getting used to. For me anyway. Don't get me wrong, I see the advantage of it but for me it actually requires a little more thought than just transposing the letter names. I did work with a guy once who only knew those numbers, he didn't know letter names. It was a minor challenge to communicate that way for me but he was really good and had a great ear.


If you ever play bass the number system becomes second nature. I never pay attention to what notes I'm playing, only the pattern and the position on the fretboard.

Justin

If you ever play bass the number system becomes second nature. I never pay attention to what notes I'm playing, only the pattern and the position on the fretboard.

Justin

Yes, I guess I forgot to mention it but the guy I was talking about was a bass player so that makes sense.

Questions for klasaine:

The core of the band I'd like to put together will consist of drums, bass, (1) guitar, (1) keys, and maybe a person who just sings. From there I would like to add horns, more singers, percussion, etc. if and when the situation calls for it (well, the money really).

If my goal is to get started with these charts in the most basic, simplest way yet still making them good, what exactly do you think I need? I'm thinking:

1) A chart for guitar & bass, like the "It's Your Thing" chart you posted.
2) A chart for the drummer.
3) A chart for the keyboard player which would include any horn lines or string parts he or she is expected to play.
4) A chart with chords and lyrics for the singer.

Does that sound right? Or are you saying all I would need would be a chart like you posted above for the whole rhythm section?

I'm just trying to figure out the logistics. It seems different situations would call for different charts, or am I over thinking it? Obviously I'd need horn charts if/when those guys are involved but what about things like a lead singer who also plays trumpet? When there are horn players the keyboard player gets a different chart? I'm wondering what is the common approach to these things.

If you create a number chart you're done. Everyone can/should make their own notes as they go. Yes, drummer read number charts too.

It depends more on how much rehearsing you want to do and if you think you'll have 'sub' players that will only be at gigs sometimes.

*If the players will be consistent and learn the detail parts on their own(?), then a simple chord chart/number chart is fine.*

Drummers (in my experience) appreciate any chart with the correct form (bar structure) so a lead sheet is fine. What you'd give to guitar or bass or keys.

Guitar/bass - chord chart. If there's a signature riff that's absolutely necessary i.e., the bass line in "Low Rider" or the guitar/bass part in "Brick House", write it out in standard notation. (A lot of this stuff is easily found on-line or in commercially available books so you don't really need to know how to 'read' to copy it out.)

Keys - if you need them to cop some horn or string lines you'll need to put that in the chart.

Vox - either just a lyric sheet or lyrics and chords

Horns - charts for Bb (trpt & tn Sax), Eb (alto sax) and ideally a bass clef horn part for trombone. You can absolutely have this in 'one' chart. A master horn chart. It'll be written on 2 lines - treble clef for alto and tenor, bass clef for T-bone (sort of looks like a piano part but the lines are transposed).
You can write the horns all in 'concert' pitch because good horn players are required to transpose all the time. They'll like you better if though if you put it in their keys. (You can find stock R&B horn charts commercially available.)

Again, this is all contingent on how consistent the band will be - ?

Yeah, I was wondering about things like guitar parts on "Brick House" or maybe a better example would be "Le Freak (Freak Out)" by Chic. Those are pretty easy to learn by ear but it seems like it would be a nightmare to write them out or read them. All the muted strings, scratches and tricky rhythms. Not to mention all the slight variations of those parts throughout the song. I don't really have to worry about it because I'm the one playing that stuff but I assumed that people just wrote out the basic chords and it was up to the player to figure out the actual parts. Man, I can't imagine reading stuff like that!

klas is right about sig licks. But if they don't already know Brick House, should you be using them? If it's B-side or your material or stuff so obscure that you and the waitress are the only ones that have ever heard it then yes, write it out or as mentioned, copy and paste.

But if they don't already know Brick House, should you be using them?

Bingo! ;) And that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Occasionally you'll run into a really good player that maybe doesn't know a particular tune that we/you think everybody knows. A rocker that's getting a little older and is mellowing, or a guy that started as a rocker, went all jazz on everyone and then decided to come back to pop music (i.e., make a few bucks). They may be 'missing' part of their in the field education as it were.

You don't have notate all the mutes and scratches - just the main line.
Look at the chart of "It's your thing".
The scratches under the top main guitar line are unnecessary for most guitar players. But this chart was actually 'commissioned' for an agency that books multiple cover bands. They contract individual musicians and send a 'leader' with the books (very L.A. ... for better or for worse - ?)