The Red-Hot Karma Shuffle (mix content)

This one's been an obsess-o-thon since the ides of July. I wrote this one from an idea I'd been carrying around since San Francisco in the late '60s. We played it in the Lunatic Fringe (sort of a hillbilly Frank Zappa-type trio) in the mid-'90s, but I wanted to get a version down within the spirit of the song.

Mix notes:
* The whole project's in Logic Express with mostly stock plug-ins. Didn't edit tightly at all, just touch-ups here and there, not wanting to mess with the raw feel. Lots of focus on detail in the mixing phase, though.

* Tried a couple of tricks recently found on this board ... used the SSL simulator Geoff pointed us to across the output and (as discussed in another thread) way beyond my best homemade effort.

* Used the trick Scatman mentioned recently of duplicate L/R lead vocal tracks with timing and tuning tweaks. I love the spaciousness of it, but worry that it doesn't deliver the lyrics.

* For the first time in a long while, I used parallel comp on the drums, cuz it's just that kind of song. Rolled off the highs on the comp track to keep the cymbals from being so splishy. Pulling the comp track down for dynamics worked well, didn't hafta tinker with the MIDI track.

* Track count was 24 plus 6 drum sends — the iMac wasn't even breaking a sweat, much different from the Mini era. The backbeat ride clang on the second instrumental is an audio sample (Apple loop) — I couldn't get enough juice from the EZDrummer ride.

At any rate, here's a mix I thought was worthy of critique by this board ... you guys have saved me from my own stupidity many times. It's time to call in outside ears! So let the pummeling begin.

Red-Hot Karma Shuffle
(http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle) (I'll be posting it at the ReverbNation link below too).

wow! it does have that west coast vibe.

Not sure I like the defused main vox track. Can we hear a version of it CENTERED?

The bass is right on, the drums are mixed in good, the back up vox tracks are good. The only other thing to me that would be better would be a more "present" and dynamic main rhythm guitar track. The rhythm guitar sounds a bit too restrained or compressed to me.

Best!

Woody that's smokin'!! I love it!

Is the overall mix really dry in terms of reverb? Might be my set up. I don't have the experienced ears like the other folks on the forum.

The tune has got a killer vibe and energy which makes me want to hear it like its in a more of a "room" than the polished studio sound. Not sure if I'm getting my thoughts across.

Again, this is a real "nit-picky" comment on what I think is a home-run!

Great work man!
KC

The only other thing to me that would be better would be a more "present" and dynamic main rhythm guitar track. The rhythm guitar sounds a bit too restrained or compressed to me.

Hey, this is a fun one!

But, I'm gonna agree on bringing the main rhythm guitar up and more present. I can hear that there's a goodly bit of 'verb sent to the other side. But I don't think that's bringing it back in the mix all that much. IMO, needs to be louder. Maybe more scooped on the eq too? Beefier, maybe more top? Maybe just louder. Probably not more top on further listening.

I think you've reined in the highs on the cymbals too much. Give 'em some more air. 10, 12, 15 even. (Er, khz, not dbs.) Now's the time to check out the "fat eq" in Logic if you haven't already. I like it better for the non-surgical stuff, so I've been trying to use the regular eq for cutting and the fat one for (most) boosts.

The end of the (first) solo is pretty abrupt. How about inserting a bar or two of silence there with just the verb of the guitar solo carrying over. Then slamming back into the song. Arrangement/ production more than mix critique, but I'll throw it out there as a possibility.

I kinda like the vocal treatment. I'm hearing it kinda like the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other - "How you gonna pay?". The stereo image seems to be shifting around a bit on the lead vox - but it's not losing its intelligibility.

I've got a few more thoughts on this one, but I need to hear it with fresh ears.

g'nite.

Cheers,
Geoff

Good thoughts all ... it's refreshing to hear what others hear when you've been "inside" a mix for so long that your big-picture perspective shrivels. Also did quite a bit of experimentation with mixed results.

The rhythm guitar part is the heart of the song instrumentally, so obviously it needs attention first. I'm thinking a bit of a scoop to keep it off the vocal frequencies would allow me to bring up the volume for a fatter sound that wouldn't be intrusive, yet I'd still want to maintain some grit.

On the lead vocal, I'm mystified by the shifting of the stereo field ... may try adjusting the delay interval and see if that helps ... finding the sweet spot between phase point and "slapback" is pretty elusive, this being my first attempt at it. Even thought about duping the track yet again and placing it dead-center with no reverb, highs and lows shelved, at a bare minimum volume to see if that ties it together ... probably not in the rulebook, but since I'm in experimental mode anyhow, why not try it. If all else fails, I can just center the mono track as 64 suggests and go with that.

KC, I think I hear what you're saying about the room ambience ... a lot of the tracks were pretty wet, so I pulled down the room mikes on the drums to keep it from getting too sloshy. But now that you mention it, I can hear that they sound tight and dry compared to the rest of the instruments — definitely "studio" rather than atmospheric. I'll work with that in tandem with the overheads to try for the cymbal definition Geoff mentioned. (Haven't tried the Fat EQ — I've instinctively always gone for the channel EQ in the control strip; I'll give it a whirl and see what cooks.)

Geoff, the point of the abrupt end of the first solo was to build up to an explosive climax, then drastically drop the volume of the ensuing verse for a dramatic dynamic effect. So your comment tells me either the volume drop isn't deep enough to make it work, or that the idea itself is a fail. Hmmmm ....

In my initial post I forgot to credit Lady Woodman (the Songbird as she's known around here, though she hates it) on vocals as well as my ol' pal Tom Kuhn on the punchy bass track.

So for now, it's back to work. Got a lot of time in this one, so what's a few more hours!

The rhythm guitar part is the heart of the song instrumentally, so obviously it needs attention first. I'm thinking a bit of a scoop to keep it off the vocal frequencies would allow me to bring up the volume for a fatter sound that wouldn't be intrusive, yet I'd still want to maintain some grit. Good idea! Let's hear it.

On the lead vocal, I'm mystified by the shifting of the stereo field ... may try adjusting the delay interval and see if that helps ... finding the sweet spot between phase point and "slapback" is pretty elusive, this being my first attempt at it. Even thought about duping the track yet again and placing it dead-center with no reverb, highs and lows shelved, at a bare minimum volume to see if that ties it together ... probably not in the rulebook, but since I'm in experimental mode anyhow, why not try it. If all else fails, I can just center the mono track as 64 suggests and go with that. Just listened again and your main vox image shifting in the field is what is bothering me. Please try your first idea above and let's see how big that is.


Geoff, the point of the abrupt end of the first solo was to build up to an explosive climax, then drastically drop the volume of the ensuing verse for a dramatic dynamic effect. So your comment tells me either the volume drop isn't deep enough to make it work, or that the idea itself is a fail. Hmmmm ... here's an idea.... I know in SONAR I can take the end of that solo and put a big delay on it and sync it with the tempo. Get the adjustments just right and let the echoing last note fade right into the start of your next verse. Could be a pretty cool way to fill that short dynamic change gap.

So for now, it's back to work. Got a lot of time in this one, so what's a few more hours! Exactly my feeling when I get into these projects! On my side, I'm still working on Doc Robert, the main guitar part has to be redone to get the right syncopation with the drums and bass...... and.... I started Day Tripper and have the instrumentation right where I want it but need my friend to sing the lower vocal parts because his voice quality is much superior to mine.... I have the high fill parts in though.

Looking forward to your next iteration of RHKS. :grin:

Great feel. I agree with your assessment of the lead voc but I do like the effect, maybe duplicate in the middle but heavily compressed? (the Tamla Motown method).

Also agree with scoop on rythm gtr. Love the "free range" vocals at the end and gtr at the start.

If I had to find something to pick on I would say the drums were a bit busy (rolls etc.) a little early on in the song but that could be the raw feel you were going for.

Good work again Woodman. Looks like the Logic thing is working out OK.

P.S. re. the parallel comp on drums. Picked up a tip recently where you run the kick, snare and bass to a seperate channel/buss, heavily compress and mix back in a touch. Gives a lot more punch to the mix. I have tried it and you only need a tiny bit mixed back in.

Thanks, Petey — I'm in the process of tinkering with a middle vocal track, leaving it dry so all the reverb comes from L/R and doesn't clutter up the center. But I hadn't thought of extreme compression on it ... hey, I'm going to try it as soon as I finish this! Also tinkered with the time delay on the L/R tracks to lose that fluttery feel ... when I went back into the file, I discovered I'd disabled the reverb sends on those tracks for some reason and am pretty sure I bounced with dry lead vocals — YIKES!

Might try routing the bass into the drums' parallel comp track too and see how that works. Cool tip!


If I had to find something to pick on I would say the drums were a bit busy (rolls etc.) a little early on in the song but that could be the raw feel you were going for.

When we did this one live with the Lunatic Fringe, the drummer (a very talented yet overly exuberant dude) was rolling around the toms from the first note to the last — this version is conservative by comparison! :razz: But your point is well taken, and as long as I'm under the hood, might as well tone down some of those early fills. That way the song would build better from verse to verse. I should have known better than to let a madman be my drum role model!

Geoff, tried the Fat EQ on the overheads to good effect. Thanks to all for once again saving me from myself! :lol: All this tinkering may take a while, but I'll repost as soon as the mix is fit to print.

Woody,

I agree with the busyness of the drums too. Something about their overall feel isn't gelling to me. I don't know whether it's a volume thing, or an ambience thing, or what it is.

For the main guitar, the overall view seems to be scoop it. Well, maybe. A couple more ideas: duck them when the vocals come in; or just duck the frequencies you want to scoop that are fighting with the vocals. I've never tried the latter method where you only duck certain freqs, and I think it could sound very weird with anything but a light touch, but it might be worth a try to keep the guitars as big as you want but still tuck them in behind the vocal when needed. Can also do the same thing via automation of course.

There was something else, but dinner is calling.

Cheers,
Geoff

Had a couple or three critical listens tonite.

Ya know what? It's sounding pretty good to me. I'm not really gonna add anything new here - maybe a bit more air on the cymbals - but the compression (I'm guessing) is giving them a nice "bloom" that you might not want to mess with, main rhythm guitar up a bit in level, vocal image more solid/centered. Second guitar solo (roughly @2:30) could be a bit more upfront (drier?).

Looking forward to see where it goes from the original version - but I don't think it needs anything drastically different.

Cheers,
Geoff

Hoping to finish up the remix by late this afternoon ... I've been derailed by an out-of-the-blue band project. Most of the work's done, just gotta fine-tune the vocal, then recheck the balances on a coupla sound sources. Will also give that second solo a close look/listen ... I want it to seem far away and spooky, yet prominent (if that's not an oxymoron).

OK, here's the tweaked mix per all comments with the adjustments mentioned in previous posts. As usual, one of my worries is the tendency to overcorrection ... see what you think!

RHKS2 (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle2)
.

Sounding good woodman and..wow!..Mrs. woodman sure can belt out a tune!

I think you've done a good job of creating some well constructed and effective drum fills.

IMO, a few could use some slight tweaking though:

The one at 0:29, the 2/4 bar (measure 14) sounds incomplete, like it needs at least one more note leading into measure 15. I realize the pattern matches the singing rhythm, but it just seems to halt the momentum a bit.

I added a extra tom note to your pattern:

Fill 1 (http://www.4shared.com/audio/W9e_RgQF/Fill_1.html)
http://dc183.4shared.com/img/760992207/6b1d7ea1/dlink__2Fdownload_2F760992207_2F6b1d7ea1_3Ftsid_3D 20091215-193655-30706d80/preview.mp3

The second one at 3:15, bar 86 sounds like straight 1/16 notes. Nothing "wrong". It just seems that something other than 1/16 notes would work better there. Maybe a good place to unleash the "Lunatic Fringe" and play the big fast 1/16 triplet note tom fill.

Here I also didn't the play the hi-hat while doing the fill. Going back to the "learning to think like a drummer" thing; well, we only have two hands. :wink: Not that the hi-hat can't be played with the feet, it's just that some fills just don't seem to need it to be effective.

Fill 2 (http://www.4shared.com/audio/tRK6K-4D/Fill_2.html)
http://dc183.4shared.com/img/760992580/38ef778f/dlink__2Fdownload_2F760992580_2F38ef778f_3Ftsid_3D 20091215-193655-30706d80/preview.mp3

The last one starting at 3:20, measure 88: Sounds like your doing 1/16 note triplets starting on beat 4, but just prior to going into the next measure, the pattern changes maybe?

I'm thinking maybe just have a clean 1/16 note triplet pattern going into the next measure (I think it would also complement the one in measure 86). Again, I've omitted the hi-hat:

Fill 3 (http://www.4shared.com/audio/1bNGhFIM/Fill_3.html)
http://dc183.4shared.com/img/760993358/3fab9a27/dlink__2Fdownload_2F760993358_2F3fab9a27_3Ftsid_3D 20091215-193655-30706d80/preview.mp3

These are just suggestions, and as always just MHO.

What you have sounds fine as is.

OK, here's the tweaked mix per all comments with the adjustments mentioned in previous posts. As usual, one of my worries is the tendency to overcorrection ... see what you think!

RHKS2 (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle2)
.

Sounds great to me!

Cheers,
Geoff

All excellent ideas, Scat — really appreciate the time you took to document them! V-drums have been my toughest nut to crack as a one-man shop where space prohibits miking a kit, and I'll take all the help I can get. I've been working in MIDI a little over a year now, enough to be comfortable in what can be done, now more focused on what should be done. Stuff like this really helps.

Appreciate the vote of confidence, Geoff!

Second time around and the song is really growing on me. The lead voc seems to sit better now and I still like the effect. Is Mrs. Woodman's voc a little muffled?, especially at the end.

Great work again.

Second time around and the song is really growing on me. The lead voc seems to sit better now and I still like the effect. Is Mrs. Woodman's voc a little muffled?, especially at the end.

Great work again.

Her voice in the "rave-up" section is on another track ... I'll try to match 'em up a little better. Thanx, Petey.

For the curious, here's what I ended up with after tweaking. I hope it's fit for consumption, cuz I'm ready to move on!

RHKS final (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)
.

For the curious, here's what I ended up with after tweaking. I hope it's fit for consumption, cuz I'm ready to move on!

RHKS final (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)
.

Woody, just "ate" the whole thing and went back for seconds!

I think it sounds awesome!! You do great work!

KC

I'm in late to say, "Big fun!" I'm in awe of the concept and even more in awe of the details you used to bring the concept to life, and even _more_ in awe of your success in making it gel and swing. Great job.

But man, it's loud here. I kept turning down my ATM50s but then the vocal loses focus. I'll say that I record and listen almost exclusively to acoustic music for the last 10 years, but I used to rock'n'roll, Danny Gatton is my hero, so I think I have a clue. Is it maybe an issue of trying to push every element to the front?

Oooops, just read the sign-off above (read the whole thread before replying, dummy). Forget my whole second paragraph, it's a great rocking track that sounds very much like a live bar band blasting away into the heat and sweat of a fine Saturday night.

Fran

Wood, it sounds good!

personal preference, I would've mixed your main vox about +1dB to +2dB higher in the mix. Season to taste. I think it's just a touch too reserved.

Sounds great this end. I also admire your ability to say "that's it" and move on! I seem to struggle letting go of projects and putting them out there while knowing I am probably not going to improve things much more however much tweaking I do.

OK, so I lied ... after numerous listenings, I'm still not totally happy with the lead vocal. It's either not loud enough or (more likely) getting crowded out by the instruments. So I'll probably go back in sometime soon and root out the problem after I've gotten out of obsession mode.

Sure enough, got back into the tracks and found enough slop to keep the hogs fed for a week. I'd been having little voices saying, something isn't quite right about X, Y, or Z, but then the big voice was saying, Yeah, but that's good enough for home recording! ... Fran's comment confirmed one of the little voices, and Geoff implied it a while back in this thread: the whole mix is too in-your-face.

Part of this is Geoff's fault, cuz he got me all wiggy about compressors. ... So today I concentrated on subtractive work (not just compression but everything — a little more juice on the lead vocal, less radical EQ curves, ducking the guitar for the vocals, finding colliding frequencies and getting them out of each others' way, pulling down secondary parts in active flurries to keep the trash level down.

So although I declared victory and pulled out, I'm back at it again, still bogged down in the boondock land war.

...

Part of this is Geoff's fault, cuz he got me all wiggy about compressors. ... So today I concentrated on subtractive work (not just compression but everything — a little more juice on the lead vocal, less radical EQ curves, ducking the guitar for the vocals, finding colliding frequencies and getting them out of each others' way, pulling down secondary parts in active flurries to keep the trash level down.



The above has been and still is a tough lesson for me to learn but it seems to be the "solution" (less is more) the majority of time in my case. The vox and guit tracks I worked on last night really started to shine when I "took away" instead of boosting.

Thanks for the reminder and confirmation Woody!

KC

Part of this is Geoff's fault, cuz he got me all wiggy about compressors. ...

I'm a bad person - what can I say?

But while I've been on about compressors here (because they're kinda elusive to figure out what they do, how to hear 'em, how to apply them, and because they're just fun) - I've also been on against the modern "overcompressed" sound. And, I've been trying to mention that sometimes where we tend to reach for compressors (gain riding), maybe automating levels in our DAWs would be a better/ more sonically neutral approach. Or even letting a part be more dynamic.

Anyhow, as always, use your ears - maybe a compressor is the thing, maybe it isn't.

Woody, I haven't even given the newer mixes a listen - just got back from a weekend in your country. Will try to give a listen later tonite.

Cheers,
Geoff

Woody,

I dunno - sounds good to me.

Might I do some things differently - sure. So, just take all the comments with a grain of salt. 64 wants to hear the vocals a little bit more on top. I kinda like them where they are - not really buried, but kinda just poking through and kind of "surrounded" by the instrumental tracks. (Maybe a bad description, but as good as I can muster at the moment - mmmm Patron anejo and a few hours of traveling with a six year old. Er, not in that order!). But he's a Beatles guy (I'm guessing, for some reason) and I skew more Stones. So, some of this comes down to taste.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying yet again - yeah, change things if you think the folks commenting have a valid point that will work for the tune in question. End of the day, it is your song, your approach and aesthetic. We'll all try and suggest things that will be more to our approach to what you've presented. Might be a good idea, might not. Don't overthink it!!

Cheers,
Geoff

Woody,

64 wants to hear the vocals a little bit more on top. I kinda like them where they are - not really buried, but kinda just poking through and kind of "surrounded" by the instrumental tracks. (Maybe a bad description, but as good as I can muster at the moment - mmmm Patron anejo and a few hours of traveling with a six year old. Er, not in that order!). But he's a Beatles guy (I'm guessing, for some reason) and I skew more Stones. So, some of this comes down to taste.



:lol:

hahaha...!!!

truth be told, that reason aside, I actually do think it would be better with the main vox a little bit more forward. Beatles or not.

:lol:

hahaha...!!!

truth be told, that reason aside, I actually do think it would be better with the main vox a little bit more forward. Beatles or not.

Fair enough!!

Woodman, just another thought. I know you'd like to wrassle this to the ground and move on. But how many times have you listened to this over the last few days? How objective can you be at the moment? Might be a good time to take a couple days off and come back to it with fresh ears.

Or not as the case may be.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Geoff

Fair enough!!

Woodman, just another thought. I know you'd like to wrassle this to the ground and move on. But how many times have you listened to this over the last few days? How objective can you be at the moment? Might be a good time to take a couple days off and come back to it with fresh ears.

Or not as the case may be.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Geoff

Geoff that is always good advice when your betwixt and between on deciding what to do. I now let things sit for one or two weeks (sometimes even longer) before I go back to it and usually, I have it figured out mentally ahead of then what it is I want to do to correct what is bugging me.

Woodman, just another thought. I know you'd like to wrassle this to the ground and move on. But how many times have you listened to this over the last few days? How objective can you be at the moment? Might be a good time to take a couple days off and come back to it with fresh ears.


Geoff that is always good advice when your betwixt and between on deciding what to do. I now let things sit for one or two weeks (sometimes even longer) before I go back to it and usually, I have it figured out mentally ahead of then what it is I want to do to correct what is bugging me.

Precisely my plan ... worked hard at it on Saturday with the intent of letting it lay for a few days, then see how the changes sound and proceed from there.

Geoff, glad you made it back from the States unscathed! ... Re your previous post, I wasn't going at it to see how much I could squash everything, but trying out various techniques I've learned in my recent intensive study of the finer elements of mixing. Some experiments worked great, others I ditched, and on at least one (lead vocal treatment), the jury's still out. But the whole project's about finding a richer, deeper, more dimensional sound than I was getting before. Learning compression was a big element of that, but all the while realizing that it's only one element. So it's been an exercise of fits and starts. I'll post the re-do as soon as it starts sounding like a song to me rather than an amalgamation of separate tracks!

Geoff, glad you made it back from the States unscathed! ...

Unscathed? I now have the U of Michigan theme song in my head and it won't leave. Perhaps that spendy bottle of tequila I brought back will help. And hey, it won't drink itself!

Cheers,
Geoff

After spending a weekend in Wolverine Nation, you can rationalize the tequila as a medical treatment to get well from it.

This tune has dragged me down a dark road littered with failed experiments, although it's left me older but wiser (well, older, at least!). Also tried the many constructive suggestions from you guys and kept the ones that worked.

After beating my head bloody, I finally abandoned the L/R parallel vocal idea ... the lead vocal is a now a single track that I tried to add some dimension to. Browsing through one of my Logic books, I saw an intriguing effect called the Binaural Panner, but I couldn't get it to work — is this one of those features that exists in Logic Pro/Studio only, but not Express???

Spent a long time trying get the vocals to that sweet spot where they're loud enough to hear the lyrics but not so loud that they make the instruments sound small. Tell me how you're hearing it — I need to get this monkey off my back! :lol:

RHKS new mix (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)

.

And I believed you when you said you'd finished! Vocal sounds more centred and clearer. Level seems fine here. Is the bass a bit loud in the mix? Great playing but seems to be competing with the vocal for my attention.

Sounds fine here woodman.

About the L/R vocal technique: you could relieve the hard panning and bring each track back towards center so you still get a "spread", but it's more centered..

..but, that's for future projects, if you ever decide to revisit that technique. No need to beat yourself up anymore on this one.

I'm hearing the "dimension" on the new vocal mix, but it sounds like the meat of the vocal is "centered" @ about +25 (panning), so to my ears anyway, I'm perceiving the vocals to be panned right and not centered.

Might be what your intentions were though.

And I believed you when you said you'd finished!

Well, it's more like I was finished with it, but it wasn't finished with me! :mrgreen:

Vocal sounds more centred and clearer. Level seems fine here. Is the bass a bit loud in the mix? Great playing but seems to be competing with the vocal for my attention.

Hmmm ... maybe I'd better give the bass a another close listen. Are you hearing it as a matter of colliding frequencies, or just overall volume?



Sounds fine here woodman.

About the L/R vocal technique: you could relieve the hard panning and bring each track back towards center so you still get a "spread", but it's more centered..

..but, that's for future projects, if you ever decide to revisit that technique. No need to beat yourself up anymore on this one.

I'm hearing the "dimension" on the new vocal mix, but it sounds like the meat of the vocal is "centered" @ about +25 (panning), so to my ears anyway, I'm perceiving the vocals to be panned right and not centered.

Might be what your intentions were though.

No, it's now one track dead-centered, but I used the Stereo Spread plugin to try to widen the field, and I guess there's some sort of frequency-band distribution glitch. I tried it after I couldn't get the Binaural Panner to work (possibly because it doesn't exist in Express ... ?) Honestly, I don't really know how the thing works — first time I'd ever opened it — and could find only sketchy information on it. Guess I could simplify matters by just taking off the Spread plug ... the dimensional dream dies hard! As I recently told Geoff, I think my ambition outran my abilities on this project. Looks like it's back to the drawing board!

wow! WAAAAAAY better than before.

The only thing I would do is at 2:24-ish when that snarly lead comes in, it is just a touch too hot on my end.

Otherwise, you're done!

Great job! great tune! kudos!

Hmmm ... maybe I'd better give the bass a another close listen. Are you hearing it as a matter of colliding frequencies, or just overall volume?


EQ sounds good, it was just the level but nobody else has mentioned it so maybe it's just my ears. Not saying it was overpowering just seemed to jump out a bit.

I suppose of you listened to every litle nit pick someone came up with you would get nowhere so don't pay too much attention to something that is my personal mixing preference and stick with what you feel works for the mix.

Woody,

Yeah, I think the binaural panner isn't included on Express. From what I recall it was mainly a headphones-oriented thing though.

If you have a true stereo track there's the dimension mixer or whatever it's called that allows for true panning. (The "panner" is really just a balance control where it pans hard L & R and the adjusts the relative L & R volumes to simulate panning.)

I haven't played with the spreader plug much. I think it converts to a mid-side set-up and flips the phase on one of the sides? Could be wrong though - been a looong time since I fiddled with that kinda stuff.

Anyhow, I haven't given the new mix a good critical listen, but it is sounding pretty good to me over the computer speakers.

Cheers,
Geoff

Awrite then, here's the latest tweaked version. Lead vocal is now a centered mono track with the slightest bit of slapback ... ditched the Spread plug, figured I'd leave hifalutin dimension ideas behind for now. Flattened the 1K hump on the bass EQ and smoothed the pointiness out of the second solo. Plus the usual round of minute adjustments. See what you think!

RHKS (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)
.

by far, my favorite main vox version yet! this is what I was thinking all along from early on. But I understand the need and reason for experimenting.

the second solo is well controlled now. well done!

the balance of the drums and bass is excellent and the rhythm guitar has it's own space.

in my opinion, I wouldn't do anything else.

Congrats!

I'm lovin' it!

Finally got up the nerve to send this mix to some of my music-oriented contacts. My old pal, mentor and audio guru Mark Williams listened to it and said this: "It sounds great! ... your balances are all excellent." He's a Grammy-nominated mixer, so I took it as a huge compliment — Mark doesn't dole out lavish praise lightly. But in truth, I owe a whole lot of it to you guys here at the RIP forum for bashing me gently over the head til I got it right. As you may recall, I gave up on it twice before finally wrestling it to the ground. Thank you for the constructive yet nondestructive ass-kicking!

For latecomers and curiosity seekers, here's the link: RHKS purt' near final (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)

EDIT: I think mix threads are among the higher life-forms here on the RIP forum and wish we had more.

Woodman,

That is awesome that your friend Mark liked it! And you did all the heavy lifting.... we just listened. :grin:

I still think RHKS is an excellent piece of work you did there and of the limited number of your tunes I've heard, I think it's the best one yet!

And by the way, I've been a huge beneficiary here too from you and the other regulars helping me with my mixes too. Scat has straightened me out on vocals numerous times, Geoff keeps me straight and gives me straight forward advice and you, Mr. Woodman, are the most reliable, gentle, careful guide here. You are very special! So, I am also indebted to the talent here and agree with you... my FAVORITE threads here are, "Lets listen to this here mix and see what's going on with it and talk about it!"

All it requires is that you have the courage to post your work, warts and all! Be open minded about what others hear and say, and then try hard to take the suggestions given and use them. It's a rewarding, iterative process of refinement.

By the way, today is the big day in my little project studio to lay down the initial tracks for And Your Bird Can Sing and She Said, She Said. It should be interesting! We are also going to add a few more guitar details to Doc Bob to finish that one. That'll keep me busy for a while. :lol:

Woody,


Awesome! I know this one was a struggle - but it I'm sure you'd agree it was worth it in the end.

Sounding great!

Cheers,
Geoff

Finally got up the nerve to send this mix to some of my music-oriented contacts. My old pal, mentor and audio guru Mark Williams listened to it and said this: "It sounds great! ... your balances are all excellent." He's a Grammy-nominated mixer, so I took it as a huge compliment — Mark doesn't dole out lavish praise lightly. But in truth, I owe a whole lot of it to you guys here at the RIP forum for bashing me gently over the head til I got it right. As you may recall, I gave up on it twice before finally wrestling it to the ground. Thank you for the constructive yet nondestructive ass-kicking!

For latecomers and curiosity seekers, here's the link: RHKS purt' near final (http://soundcloud.com/the-woodshed/the-red-hot-karma-shuffle)

EDIT: I think mix threads are among the higher life-forms here on the RIP forum and wish we had more.