Tele & Tweed in Modern Worship?

Do a Tele & a Tweed Deluxe have any place in Modern Worship; in the style of Chris Tomlin?

I am having difficulties picturing it with the sound I get (Black Crowes Rich Robinsonish).
Thanks!

Tele's & Tweed's.....match made in Heaven.
Musically speaking, it's like going to church.

If you listen to folks like Fernando Ortega's recordings you will hear quite a bit of tele and tweed stylings. Or Robin Mark. Granted, both of these guys are on the more mellow side, but those sounds are still used. The Tomlin/Passion sound isn't steeped in those sounds, but many current artists have more of a sonic palate that includes T&T, fender Rhodes, Hammond B3 and etc... On the grittier side of things (I just don't thing Tomlin is gritty!) try a younger group like Asher's album "the tumults of war will subside". I am currently digging the hound out of this one as they obviously blend great historical sounds with more modern sensibilities.

As far as playing Tomlin stuff via tele and tweed, hey man, do what you feel. I feel completely at liberty to reinterpret anything so long as it is done skillfully and people can receive it.

I don't think one genre of music is better than another so I am a little disappointed when one genre tends to dominate the Christian music and worship scene. There is no law that states that Christian artists have to sound a certain way -listen to Larry Norman and compare him to the Luvin Brothers. Both are amazing at what the do with their music and message yet both are ignored today because they aren't the Christian equivalent of U2.

But there is hope cause you'll find a Keith Green song in nearly all baptist hymnals even though most would know nothing of him or his music and would probably reject it all anyway. However "There is a Redeemer" is such a great song that it survives nearly every genre interpreting it.

I'll agree with you though... Tomlin songs are good, in large part, because of the way he does them. If you can't separate the songs from the way he does them without loosing something vital to the song itself then you just have to look elsewhere or do them like he does. That's tough. I can't imagine people loving that style forever so I wonder how lasting some of those songs will be. People may outgrow that sound to the point that they won't even be able to listen to that stuff because it will sound so dated.

Wow javabirds...thanks thanks and thanks. That was +1, a thousands times. Very well said and I completely agree with EVERYTHING you said.

U2 style worship sounds sooo sterile to me and it makes me sick. Yes, this is MY opinion, and others will disagree, but that is the way I feel. It just stinks tho, because that is what my rather large church is rooted in; and I dont see the winds of experiment, or eventual change, at all in the horizon. I am trying to break into the 'click' of the modern band as we speak, in order to ATTEMPT to bring some Roots, Rock, & Americana to the forefront.

And an Analog delay vs. Digital :wink: . . .

The tide may be turning. Just today I was on YouTube listening to John Mark McMillan. Sure doesn't sound like U2. He has slide on some songs, too.

U2 style worship sounds sooo sterile to me and it makes me sick. Yes, this is MY opinion, and others will disagree, but that is the way I feel. It just stinks tho, because that is what my rather large church is rooted in; and I dont see the winds of experiment, or eventual change, at all in the horizon. I am trying to break into the 'click' of the modern band as we speak, in order to ATTEMPT to bring some Roots, Rock, & Americana to the forefront.


The only click I hear is coming from a tap tempo delay :lol:

I'm sorry I really dislike U2, and it gets very very old playing p&w that style. I am actually the full time drummer at my rather large church. Our style has been shifting away from that thank goodness. I really like a good countryish rock sound which I am getting the band members to go along with. People are really responding well to it. Just because it's Christian doesn't mean it has to be some U2\Tomlin mash up. I refuse to play any more 16th notes on the hihat.

Thank you Roku! I loathe U2 also; I just didn't want to say it outright :smile:

I sure wish my church would at least experiment, but the Modern band has been playing at our church for at least 4 years now - non stop. And because they have been the regular for so long TOGETHER, they truly are a click.

Whatevs though...I am at least not just complaining and doing nothing. I am working through the ranks and playing acoustic in the classic - all the while dropping hints of my electricness to the Modern leader.

I'll just keep plugging away...

Hey all you can do! You and I know the reason we do it! Just because you don't listen to modern p&w doesn't mean you don't appreciate it (and play it).

U2 sells out areas.. But McDonalds sell millions of hamburgers too..

U2 sells out areas.. But McDonalds sell millions of hamburgers too..

Billions

U2 sells out areas.. But McDonalds sell millions of hamburgers too..

A-and so, dotted-eighth-note delay is the special sauce?

yeah I have been thinking about trying to play with my local church band but they are kind of U2ish -they either overplay acoustics or play only a handful of notes with an electric but use too many effects-and I am more of a simple player .... so I am intersted in this thread

I guess that and a 4 beat on the bass drum starting the song. Snare on the 4 in the second verse with full back beat on the first chorus etc etc follow the formula

Hey adjason, Join and play if you can. You'll get a lot out of it even if it's not quite your thing. Plus I think you'll find the other musicians aren't die hard modern flavor of the month p&w people. I bet you most people in your congregation would like something a little different. They have Hank jr. to nirvana to outcast in their ipod right now.

My church plays a lot of different styles of music every week. So I think having a diverse rig is very helpful.

Anyway, what I was going to say is that a lot of Christian artists are based out of Nashville and use session musicians on their records. A lot if new music is starting to sound country (not honkey tonk but clean with a compressor). Even though bands that use (read overuse) the U2 style delay and formulated songwriting style will probably be around for a while.

What keeps me fresh is that I listen to a lot of different stuff. I play what I feel and I get both freedom and encouragement from the leader. I make suggestions when they are appropriate and I keep my mouth shut when it doesn't really matter. Everyone seems to have a good spirit about them as far as not always doing things the same way every week. I bring whatever electric guitar I want to play that morning. Every few months I make another suggestion about stage setup, etc... Obviously if you go in there with a list of demands and complaints no one is going to listen and they just might shut down as far as future suggestions are concerned. But if you get picked to be on the team and consider it an honor you will be give the opportunity to earn the right to an opinion.

All of that can be frustrating when you have ears and can hear all the lameness. But it isn't just musicians who struggle with this it is a people thing. Find a place to vent your frustrations creatively. Start meeting every month informally to jam with some of the guys in the band. You might gain some friends and get some traction musically.

Also, if you can find points of musical intersection... Like telling them about David Crowder meeting Marty Stuart and having him play on an album. That could be a good way to let those other guys know that the cool people they like also like the cool people you like... I know, it's work, but how else do you think we can change the world if not one musician at a time ;)

Do a Tele & a Tweed Deluxe have any place in Modern Worship; in the style of Chris Tomlin?

I am having difficulties picturing it with the sound I get (Black Crowes Rich Robinsonish).
Thanks!

I think they do... I like to change things up with my guitar and amps.
That combination would be a fresh take on some of the Tomlin standards that every church does.

I am though, learning a TON of acoustic chord work (split waking chords A/C# to D/F#, playing non capo'd in flat keys, etc.), that I would never in a million years learn with my Black Crowes and Gov't Mule obsession :smile: Now I know this is all blah n blah to you older or better cats, but it is fun for me!

I wish I could just print this thread out, and the satirical guide to worship playing thread - that I love so much - and waltz up and hand it to the band. And tell em' this is what I, and the congregation think; AND these aren't even my words. That probably won't help my acceptance much :wink:

Unless your P&W team leadership is specific about types of gear, which is very one-sided, you should be fine.

When I auditioned for my P&W team, I was told they were looking for a "Plexi" sound because it cuts through the mix. I'm a tweed guy with an obvious blues-rock tendency. After playing my style and interpretation on parts with an overdriven Fender-voiced amp...I get complements on my tone. Why tell you this?... 'cause I bet, and hope, you would have a similar experience.

Great thread!

I think that if you are sensitive to the song and what sound might suit it, a Tele + Deluxe will be fine. You can get a lot of variations from that combination simply with pick-up and tone choices/settings.

Depending on what I think suits best and the amount of time I have to be able set up, I either use a Tele with a Harley Benton 15W valve amp or a Variax into a Vox Tonelab into a small PA. And I only realy 'need' the Variax is if I very much want an acoustic guitar sound for a particular song. I can usually get away with the Tele + small amp.

This is in a setting of a small band with drums, bass, piano, flute/saxophone and a bunch of 15-20 singers (with no amplification, we have to play quietly...).

Forgot to add:
As an example of how what might not be the obvious choice of instrument/amp can work, this week I'm playing pedal steel for a song that I think suits it (This little light of mine).
It got some funny looks at the start of practice, but after hearing it in the song and with the band, people said it worked well.

playing non capo'd in flat keys

I wish I could just print this thread out, and the satirical guide to worship playing thread

about that first part: keep it up! Capos keep you from really learning your instrument -at least on an electric. I carry one just in case, but never use it. I get made fun of as a purist, but don't care. I like the challenge. Sometimes this requires transposing the lead sheet but without experience doing this you'll never do it. So this, I think, is a healthy way to grow & learn. It gets easier with practice and you will be glad you learned how to do it. About those chords that you have learned from modern p&w, you are right! Some of them sound great and you should know them and use them tastefully. There is no reason to never play a Asus2 or any sus2 just because it is so overused. That is a cool voicing, just be careful when and where you decide to go there. But you are right, you probably won't hear Warren Haynes hit that one very often :)

That thread is one if the funniest things I have ever read! Be careful sharing it though... Just read all of the responses. All of the "fall to your knees and repent" replies are from folks who feel personally attacked regarding what they believe is a (maybe even THE) genuine expression of worship. They don't find it funny at all. Satire is for people who don't take themselves too seriously. Unfortunately in p&w circles that ain't the way people roll. That post is one of those "for those who have ears to hear" sort of things. And that stuff takes some discernment about who to share it with. But really, I think quite a few folks are there they just won't admit it out loud for fear it is some sort of heresy.

I am though, learning a TON of acoustic chord work (split waking chords A/C# to D/F#, playing non capo'd in flat keys, etc.), that I would never in a million years learn with my Black Crowes and Gov't Mule obsession :smile: Now I know this is all blah n blah to you older or better cats, but it is fun for me!


I'm pro capo. Not as a crutch, but importantly for the sound of open strings. Acoustics esp, don't sound the same with barre chords even though I can play flat keys just fine.

BUT I view my chords and notes relative to the nut at all times, not the capo. ie a D shape with capo on 3rd fret still gives me

F(open)
C
F
A

ie Fmaj

This is actually excellent training, as you have to force yourself look beyond the learned hurdle of shapes, and instead see notes on the fretboard. Beside's when communicating with other instruments its your job NOT to say "Um, for me its D, A, G Em... which in F I supposed would be, uh... F, uh...., mmm...." :wink:

Oh, and teles and tweed amps fit just about anything :cool:

Absolutely! A Tele & tweed is never out of place! Haha. My Tele & tweed excels with praise & worship. A little gain, compression, just crack the reverb open a little bit. I try not to think of tone in terms of who I sound like, but rather if it works with the song period. You'll do fine.

^^^I know tele and tweed sounds great, but what I was fundamentally concerned with was gear getting genretized; and the non tele and tweed sounds of the tomlin norm. I also understand that there are alot of players out there that have cart blanc to do whatever they want in worship, but at my church IT IS U2/TOMLIN only. So I am amped for those who can play whatever they feel, and the band welcomes it, but at my church, I would be stigmatized I feel; which is unfortunate.

I KNOW I would do the song justice, but I would be out of place due to the fact that the rest of the band would sound different (set in their ways). But like I said, and another forum member alluded to; I an going to keep chipping away at them. I'm going to invite em' over and jam, with old tube amps and analog pedals, and hopefully things will eventually change.

I play my Tele with our Praise Band every weekend and my Line 6 POD is set to the Small Tweed amp model. It sounds fine to me.

Further, our Worship Leader encourages us to "noodle" and grants us the freedom to express our feelings through the music.

Winter Jam is a big contemporary Christian tour. They usually have like 12 artist at a time. Last time I went, I think every band but one, utilized a telecaster very heavily. Virtually every rythem guitar on stage was playing one. A lot of fender amps too, but I do not remember any tweeds. Not many artist are going to carry their nice small tweeds on tour. The most common amp I have seen at CCM concerts is a Marshall stack, secondly is a Mesa, third is probably a tossup between some fender or a Vox. A lot of churches don't seem ready to rock yet. You would think they would since even old people now grew up with rock in the 1950-60-70's. You still see a lot of churches....witness this board....hiding their amps and a friend used a thin Taylor, I forget the model...."accoustic" looking guitar, sort of like David Crowders guitar, with a humbucker under cover to disguise he is playing electric and make the worship leader happy. Bunch of hypocrits that won't allow electrics or amps in church and listen to the same stuff all the time at home and on radio.

Bunch of hypocrits that won't allow electrics or amps in church and listen to the same stuff all the time at home and on radio.

I don't know if I'd call that hypocritical. What about churches with just a church organ? I don't think people go home and listen to only organ music. I'd guess people have their music categorized in their heads: this is what music at church sounds like/this is what I like to listen to.

I'd guess people have their music categorized in their heads: this is what music at church sounds like/this is what I like to listen to.

Drifting off thread perhaps, but we have this 'so' clearly in our church.
We have 3 types of service, they are even labled as such in the magazine:

Normal - traditional hymns only, only the organ as accompaniment
Choir - traditional hymns and some choral pieces where the congregation cannot realy join in - piano as accompaniment
Praise - contemporary songs with the band + singers as accompaniment with the intention that the congregation joins in with singing as much as possible.

But *never* a mix.
Can't understand it. I've suggested it but nobody seems to think it would be a good idea it except me and a couple of the musicians.

classic tele sound works in this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NFsUZhOY0
how do post the video on the message board?

classic tele sound works in this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NFsUZhOY0


Indeed, that fits in well.
But if I can be a bit picky, I'd have rolled a fraction off the treble and volume on the electric guitar till the solo. It overpowers the vocal in the mix slightly for me.