The ebbs and flows of playing live...

Whenever my band plays out, we try to be as "into it" as possible. However, I find that the band's mood changes with the crowd we have, or don't have. If we have a good crowd early, but they bail halfway through the night, it saps the energy of the band -- I can feel it. And vice versa, if we get a rush of people coming in late, the band feeds off of it and picks up steam.

I assume this is fairly normal for bands? I'd like to hear your approach to the ebb and flow of playing live in relation to the audience, or lack of audience, you have.

I play for:

1-me. Like the saying goes, if Daddy ain't happy ain't nobody happy.

2-I play for the other guys in the band. Impressing a bunch of drunks while you play She'll Be Comin' 'round the Mountain has lost it's appeal.

3-I play for people that are enjoying themselves.

These are all close. I'm not saying the hell with the customers. 1=100%, 2=99% and 3=98.5%. I don't try to appear "into it". I've been doing this nearly 40 years and I'm not a good actor. That'swhy I didn't get far in my st to become Miss America. I can't fake a smile and sing about that big-legged woman that took all my money and did me wrong with my best friend.

We play for ourselves as well -- but don't most bands yearn to play for an audience? I mean, isn't that why we're in bands in the first place?

If I'm going to see a live local band, I want them to appear to be into it and enjoying themselves. I see way too many bands just standing there flat-footed, head down looking at their fret board. It's a turn-off for me, but maybe I'm weird.

Nothing is more deadly than playing to an empty room or a dead audience. A band definitely feeds of a crowd's energy, and if had to play to a lackluster crowd on a consistent basis, I wouldn't be doing it long. I've played in bands that weren't very good or didn't have any chemistry, and you can't expect much enthusiasm from the audience if that's the case. But, you can have a great band and be booked at the wrong venue, or it can just be an off night for the band and/or the audience.

We play for ourselves as well -- but don't most bands yearn to play for an audience? I mean, isn't that why we're in bands in the first place?

If I'm going to see a live local band, I want them to appear to be into it and enjoying themselves. I see way too many bands just standing there flat-footed, head down looking at their fret board. It's a turn-off for me, but maybe I'm weird.

I always have an audience. If you don't have anyone to play for that means your home. I didn't say play BY myself. I said FOR myself. The crowd either likes you or they don't and if they don't I don't really let it affect me. And I was referring to your phrase "try to be into it". Why do you have to "try"? My point is, I'm there for me. I'm going to please ME first. This is the one place in my life where I am selfish. My thought is, if I think it's it's crap how is anybody else going to like it? So I don't try. I do. I play what I like when I like and I enjoy myself. I enjoy listening to the rest of the band too. It's not all about me, but it is SOME about me.

Nothing is more deadly than playing to an empty room or a dead audience.

I don't get that at all. I like a small crowd. I like to know we can take 'em if we have to.

But, you can have a great band and be booked at the wrong venue

Bingo -- that's our main problem. We play three bars regularly and two of them draw a sparse crowd. Our band does what it can to promote, but the bar management does nothing to promote. And then they wonder why they have nobody there. :roll:

I always have an audience. If you don't have anyone to play for that means your home. I didn't say play BY myself. I said FOR myself. The crowd either likes you or they don't and if they don't I don't really let it affect me. And I was referring to your phrase "try to be into it". Why do you have to "try"? My point is, I'm there for me. I'm going to please ME first. This is the one place in my life where I am selfish. My thought is, if I think it's it's crap how is anybody else going to like it? So I don't try. I do. I play what I like when I like and I enjoy myself. I enjoy listening to the rest of the band too. It's not all about me, but it is SOME about me.

We have differing philosophies then. If I'm playing a tune I've played 100 times before, I'm probably won't be that fired up about it -- but I will still sell it to the audience as that's part of what makes a musician worth watching, I think.

Sometimes your mood might not reflect the rest of the band or the audience. There have been times I've felt like crap or thought my playing was off, and everyone else in the band thought it was great and the audience was into it. The opposite can happen--you can feel like you're on fire and someone else in the band can be feeling down and think the band played badly. The magic for me is when everyone in the band clicks and the audience appreciates it.

Also, yeah, it's tough to for me get excited about a song you've played hundreds of times, sometimes, especially when that song is something like "Roadhouse Blues" or "Sympathy for the Devil" or "Mustang Sally" or "Roll Over Beethoven." in fact, those songs are all on the list of songs I hope to never have to play again in my lifetime...

I don't get that at all. I like a small crowd. I like to know we can take 'em if we have to.
I don't mind a small crowd either, if they are into what you're doing, but if they want to hear thrash metal and your band is playing country (for example), you are probably in the wrong place, wrong time, and are not going to win them over.

I have done shows where we all thought we sucked, and the crowd LOVED it.... and the tapes came out pretty nice....

stage mind set can change by the second on a bad night, and on a good night NOTHING can change it....

I've noticed lately bars doing little to promote bands, and they expect the bands to do all the work...think Facebook, My Space, so on.

I've done this a long time, and I think the band does feed off the crowd. If the bar (or venue) is packed, and they are all having a great time, the band really rocks. You can tell. But the opposite happens to a dead crowd...the band starts dropping off in energy.

I'm saying this because I have lots of experience, not just as a musician, but from observation as a sound man as well. Sound man sees everything.

As a musician, it does matter to me.

Playing shows can be really strange. For me personally, I've never played in bands that are ripping through "Mustang Sally" because we write all of our music. In that respect, there can sometimes be more on the line. If I'm excited about a big show (or what I perceive to be a big night) and things are off / the crowd isn't huge it can be a big let down. However sometimes when there is a small crowd I'm really happy. I'm a bit of a strange player. I rarely get nervous before shows (read as hubris) and I can have full blown nervous breakdowns after a show. I think the reason is once I'm done playing there is no going back and doing it better and all of my secrets were left out in the open in front of a bunch of strangers (or worse yet, gasp! friends).

But I think that my situation may be completely different than yours. I almost exclusively play shows with other bands that I'm friends with, all bands are generally playing their own originals, I've never done a residency type of gig, usually the crowd is half full of people I know who love all kinds of music (country - punk rock - jazz etc. etc.), and I'm usually playing in venues that I've played in many times before, know the staff and perhaps most importantly I never end up playing sets longer than 30 - 45 minutes.

If that sounds nice, it is. Denver has a pretty fantastic little community of talented rock and roll hobbiests and I'm lucky enough to know a bunch of these people. That being said, there are times when we're playing a newly written song and we realize for the first in front of a crowd of people that the song sucks. Or maybe someone in the band is sick and it's effecting us all. Or maybe we're playing a benefit for the family of a friend of ours who has been hurt or even passed away. Or maybe the bar that night has been over run by a bunch of complete outsiders who just want to drink and aren't interested in music. Perhaps I am having trouble hearing another member of the band. Or maybe there are 5 bands playing in a 4 hour period and everyone is stressed that there won't be enough time for their genius.

At the end of the day though, getting out to a gig and playing a show is a lot of work and I personally am too old (28) to go out there and do it without having any fun. If our band is playing too much, we book less shows. Maybe that is the biggest problem. If a given crowd knows that you're going to be in the same place every tuesday night then the chances of people coming out specifically to see you are slim. Not because you're band is totally awesome, but because going out is expensive and "we can always go see them next week." The crowd that will be showing up however is probably more interested in drinking than live music. Those two things often go hand in hand, but so does drinking in wallowing in your own sadness. Sometimes you just walk into a show full of people who are drinking their troubles away and that isn't fun at all.

Playing music is just plain weird. We devote so much of ourselves to it and at the end of the day there will always be something lost in the translation. Sometimes it's more than others.

I try to rely on the Club to Promote as little as possible.
Two of my band mates are all over the Facebook thing.
I make 99% of our bands posters.

I bring them to the club, personally hand them to the Club Owner/Manager and always offer to put them up while I am there.
A couple of owners have me e-mail the file and incorporate it to their own poster.

I go to the local copy place and make color copies on uber-High-Glossy card stock. That way the colors won't run when they get beer (or Lord knows what) on them.

I try to have some fun with it.

I do think most musicians feed off the energy generated in a room, both positively and negatively. The number of people do not always determine the energy given off. Sometimes a couple of people in the audience can actually give off a very positive energy.

Bingo -- that's our main problem. We play three bars regularly and two of them draw a sparse crowd. Our band does what it can to promote, but the bar management does nothing to promote. And then they wonder why they have nobody there. :roll:

We used to get hit with that all the time. Why in the hell does a bar owner go to the expense of hiring a band and then do absolutely no promo?

Justin

I do think most musicians feed off the energy generated in a room, both positively and negatively. The number of people do not always determine the energy given off. Sometimes a couple of people in the audience can actually give off a very positive energy.

I agree completely, but I am trying to give 1000% every time. Even to a "dead" room. It is extremely tough to do with no positive feedback though.

I sit on all sides of this.

If the crowd is 'into it'- whether that be Mustang Sally or an original - then yeah, I'm way into it - even if the band is less than stellar that night. If they all leave I'll get a little bummed, more introspective and at least play for the band and me.

I do a semi-regular gig at a hip dntn restaurant/bar (Far Bar in little tokyo). No one listens. 'Maybe' one or two clap after every 3rd tune ... maybe?. But that's what the gig is - we're groovy wallpaper. It's about me and the band at that place.

Back when I still drank, if the room was dead we'd play Voodoo Chile and I'd get my guitar to feed back and put it on the stand. The I'd walk over to the bar and have a seat and order a beer. :lol:

Yeah, I agree, what's the story with some venues doing no promo? With all the other things they have to take care of in the running of their pubs, you'd think that at least writing the details of the gig on a chalkboard outside the venue would not be a big deal but some just don't bother at all. That's a lot of casual custom that they miss out on because of that. I can tell that a little effort on their part goes a long long way and it makes all the difference sometimes. Silly decisions as far as I can tell. Then, some venues not only not promote, but insist on the gig being a cover charge admittance. I've seen people change their mind over the cover charge in. The mind boggles.

We do our bit in putting the word out but with the best will in the world people who like a band are not going to come out and see them play gig after gig. One here and there if it's not too much out of their way sure but following us around like some merry band of cash dispensing, air guitaring drunks? Nah. :lol:

I always have an audience. If you don't have anyone to play for that means your home.

This reminds me of an upcoming gig I have. Every October we play at the local town's annual festival (this will be our 7th year). We play at the BBQ cookoff on Saturday afternoon, about from 2:00 - 6:00 or so. There's anywhere from 20 -30 cooking teams, each with their own entourage of folks hanging aroung and helping out.

We set up on flat bed trailer in a park like setting, and the cooking teams are scattered across about 3 or 4 acres. For the first 3 hours, we basically play to nobody - at least in that there are only a handful of people that may be sitting in front of us wacthing, and a handful more roaming around.

At about 5:00, the last BBQ stuff is brought in for judging, and then they have to wait about an hour for them to finish judging and tally the results. And they announce the winners using our PA, so we end up going from maybe 5 people to 100+ in that last hour.

It's hard to muster up the energy sometimes when you're playing to just a few folks (usually our wives/GFs!). But the weird thing is that we get lots of comments from the cookers - it's just that they are busy all afternoon cooking and can't take the time away to come check us out (BBQ cookoffs are serious business in TX). So even though we don't have anyone directly in front of us, we know we have an audience scattered thoughout the grounds.

It's just kind of strange, but we play like there's a full audience right in front of us. I can tell the cookers are into it as I can see them singing along and maybe even dancing a bit, but it's just that they're not right in front of us. And then at about 5:00 we get this huge crowd.

Oh yeah, as hokey as it sounds, we end the show (right after they announce the winners) with a few tunes that have become standards for us - namely La Grange (we're only a few miles from there) and then - shock - Mustang Sally! We have a tradition of getting all of the ladies in the crowd to come up around the stage, and then embarrass themselves singing along with the Ride Sally Ride part of the chorus (using a wireless mic). One year we weren't going to play it and we so many requests for it that we just had to.

Anyways, I've played at clubs where you had 2 drunks and the bartender, but you just have to keep plowing through. You never know when a group of folks might wander in (had a bacholerette party come in about an hour before closing one time, and we had a blast).

I find that clubs don't usually promote "you" per se, but rather promote the fact that they have live music (like every Saturday or something). Around my parts, folks won't typically go to see any particular band, but they will go to their favorite watering hole to see "whovever is playing". So I see it less as promoting the specific bands than getting the word out that your club supports live music with a consistent line up of bands.

Cheers,
Doug

I think you guys expect too much. If you play in bars, please, call them bars. I'm sick of a stage outside the neighborhood toot-n-tote being called a "venue". The crowd is what it is unless it's one of those idiotic places that expect you to bring your own. And why in the world would you book yourself into a thrash metal bar if you play Hank Williams greatest hits? And if you are any good, why can't you win over a crowd? And if I'm playing a song I've played 1000 times before that, to me, just means I've played it 1000 different ways. You note for note guys are just doing it to yourselves.

If you are having a nervous breakdown after playing a set, geez, please find a different hobby. I think a lot of folks here are recreational players and that's great. I am too now. But have fun. Hobbies are supposed to fun. I know, I know, I complain when the fish aren't biting too but not to the point of getting nervous or having a meltdown if the liver flies off the treble hook (see how I used "treble"?).

I think you guys expect too much. If you play in bars, please, call them bars. I'm sick of a stage outside the neighborhood toot-n-tote being called a "venue".
:lol::lol:
I feel the same way when I hear guys talk about playing "shows" at local watering holes. You may play in a band, you may play gigs, but there usually ain't no show to it. :lol:

Well, you gotta show up. Remember, a show is 90 minutes. Playing a bar is 4-5 sets.

I think you guys expect too much. If you play in bars, please, call them bars. I'm sick of a stage outside the neighborhood toot-n-tote being called a "venue". The crowd is what it is unless it's one of those idiotic places that expect you to bring your own. And why in the world would you book yourself into a thrash metal bar if you play Hank Williams greatest hits? And if you are any good, why can't you win over a crowd? And if I'm playing a song I've played 1000 times before that, to me, just means I've played it 1000 different ways. You note for note guys are just doing it to yourselves.

If you are having a nervous breakdown after playing a set, geez, please find a different hobby. I think a lot of folks here are recreational players and that's great. I am too now. But have fun. Hobbies are supposed to fun. I know, I know, I complain when the fish aren't biting too but not to the point of getting nervous or having a meltdown if the liver flies off the treble hook (see how I used "treble"?).

Excellent..!!!
I always invite a guest guitarist to come up and play a song (if I know the guy) and now it seems like I get invited up to play a song or two all the time... if you go out and support the small gigs your buddies are playing - it all comes around... oh and it helps if your girlfriend loves live rock music

We play a lot of weddings and have to cater for a wide range of age groups and musical tastes. Some nights the folk are gagging to dance and enjoy themselves and this makes the job very easy,other times they need to be coaxed.

It's a judgement call guessing what the majority want to hear and I suppose that's all part of being the entertainer that you must tap into that pretty quickly or suffer a slow death. When you find out what they want,give them half an hour of that and they'll be with you for the rest of the night,regardless what you play. Rise above a slow crowd and draw them up.

Excellent..!!!
I always invite a guest guitarist to come up and play a song (if I know the guy) and now it seems like I get invited up to play a song or two all the time... if you go out and support the small gigs your buddies are playing - it all comes around... oh and it helps if your girlfriend loves live rock music

I like to do the same: guys I know and drunk chicks I don't.

Skub, that's how it's done, huh? Bring them along for the ride.