Help!: Poltics, Egos, Alcholism, Sobriety, Songwriting, Being in a Band

Hey TDPRI,

I've got a lot on my mind and need advice about my band. First of all, I am the lead songwriter and guitarist for my band. After a long while my band has a rehearsal space, has a recorded demo, and is starting to make a buzz in our town. We are a three piece. Our drummer is solid and I have no worries over him, except for the fact he is in 2 other bands and is taking a month off in august to go on a hiking trip. Our bassist/singer has been a childhood friend of mine for years and I truly care about him but sometimes he irritates me to no end. He is an admitted alcoholic and I have recently made the decision to stay sober on drugs and alcohol which means we will play a gig and then I have to load and unload my guitar, pedalboard, amp, and bass (that he plays) back to my house by myself after a show, in which I live in a bad neighborhood and fear the potential theft of my gear as I move equipment into the car, while he stays at the bar getting drunk.

With these things on my mind I've considered starting writing material for a new band.

Is my ego out of control? Am I being selfish? HELP ME TELECASTER FORUM!

This is me of course, but I wouldn't work with an alcoholic.

Get help for him, then make him help you get things loaded, moved over to your place, and unloaded. That way you get a hand, and he doesn't get drunk. I know its an overly simple solution, but simple solutions often solve complex problems. But first make sure he gets help.

An intervention would probably be a good idea, and not just from a band standpoint.

Time to strike out on your own.

Tell these guys that you are starting a new band with YOUR name.
That way people will know YOU will be playing.

If they can hang with that, schlep the gear, stay sober and, be there when YOU want them to be there, they can be in YOUR band.

If they don't like it, they can move on down stream to the next band that wants to put up with their mess.

If they aren't willing to share the risk and the work so they can get high, dude, loose these guys.

It will be easier to get gigs using your name.
You can take it a step at a time - your name and the name of your old band.

Ask around about other Bass players and Drummers.
Maybe they will get the message.

Best of luck.
~ ST

String Tree is right. Great solution. And you might as well get used to it, musicians come and go.

As long as you remember it's the music that matters everything else will take care of its self.

your list of frustrations covers ALL the reasons why i pretty much quit the full band thing and started doing a duo many years ago, using a Solton drum/bass/rhythym unit.

the advice to "get" help FOR an alcoholic usually goes absolutely NOwhere. an alcoholic cannot/will not be helped until THEY themselves hit their bottom and seek the help on their own. they have to go TO the help, not have it SENT to them.

hope it works out for you and especially hope your friend becomes able to face his problem and seeks the help which IS out there.

Another +1 for String Tree's advice! Be clear and tell them why you can't work with them and then get busy making music.

I'd start by pointing out to your friend what a good thing you have going...and tell him as a friend that you don't see his behavior/habbit as beneficial.

There seem to be 2 issues here....1 is the band...but more important is your childhood friendship.

What you are going through is exactly the reason that drove me to change the structure of every group I had from that point forward. I decided that I was the responsible one and that I should be in charge of everything from there on out. I owned all the equipment, did all of the setup/tear down, booked all the jobs, picked all the tunes, sang all the songs, etc... Because of this, the bass player and drummer were hired and paid a flat rate per job. All they had to do is show up with their personal instruments, play the job (sober), get paid, and go home. Usually, the money ended up equating to a 4-way split with me (and my sound/light/rodie wife) taking 2 cuts and them taking one. Once in a while, I played for a lot less... once in a while, I played for a lot more. But always, I knew to expect at each job from each player.

I really don't think it is an ego issue if you are really carrying the show. If you are carrying both the business and performance sides of the group, you deserve to be running the show, calling the shots, and reaping the benefits.

This is me of course, but I wouldn't work with an alcoholic.

Especially an alcoholic who, apparently, doesn't even have his own bass. :shock:

A wise man once told me....

"bands suck, because they are full of people, and people suck"

I load/and unload my own guitar, pedal board, amp, etc. by myself, no one helps me. I don't see that as an issue. You live in a bad neighborhood, well that's your own problem. I don't see your beef with any of this.

If you're put out because you let him use your bass that you have to haul around, ok, make him get his own and be responsible for his own gear.

If you're upset because he wants to stay at the bar after you're ready to go home, grow up. People do what they want, especially band personnel.

If you can't work with him, dump him. But you didn't say anything about him not doing the job, just that he doesn't help you with your gear.

With these things on my mind I've considered starting writing material for a new band.


Never put all your eggs in one basket. I would try and keep a couple of things on the backburner just for sanity sake and in case one blows up. Keep a lid on it though, don't mention the problems you are going through with one band to the other band.

I load/and unload my own guitar, pedal board, amp, etc. by myself, no one helps me. I don't see that as an issue. You live in a bad neighborhood, well that's your own problem. I don't see your beef with any of this.

If you're put out because you let him use your bass that you have to haul around, ok, make him get his own and be responsible for his own gear.

If you're upset because he wants to stay at the bar after you're ready to go home, grow up. People do what they want, especially band personnel.

If you can't work with him, dump him. But you didn't say anything about him not doing the job, just that he doesn't help you with your gear.

I've got to agree with this. if it's a problem playing then it's a band problem. If it's only after then it's a friend problem. If this is a business then you need to deal with them as 2 separate problems. If it's just for fun then you can just try to help your friend.

You'll never sober up a drunk. He has to do it for him self. I'd let him know the facts ( he's an alcoholic) but when you hit him with reality ( he's fired or you have another band) he might take another look at his situation, but I doubt it. It's the nature of the beast and don't become co-dependent, you CAN'T fix him.

Sorry I had to re-read the post, no it's not your ego, it's your desire for a more professional approach. If he doesn't want or need to go that direction it will eventually come to an end. Been there done that. And he has to have his own guitar! #1

A little drama goes a long way if your band is actually making good music that people like. Maybe your bandmate is doing the face-to-face networking that you aren't doing when you go home after a gig. Every band needs a damn cheerleader.

the advice to "get" help FOR an alcoholic usually goes absolutely NOwhere. an alcoholic cannot/will not be helped until THEY themselves hit their bottom and seek the help on their own. they have to go TO the help, not have it SENT to them.

Absolutely true. I've been sober for 17 years now, but it wasn't until the pain got too bad that I was willing to surrender and seek help. The numerous people who tried to intervene before I was truly ready stopped being my friends. Sometimes you have to be willing to let go with love and take care of yourself.

If he's sober for the show and rehearsal, put him in a position where his after-show sobriety is not your concern. Don't, under any conditions, move his equipment. If you want to lend him your bass without knowing how it's gonna get home, fine. Otherwise make him get/use his own.

If he's messed up before/during gig, or if his addiction just plain drives you crazy, either can him, or deliver a very tight ultimatum RE total sobriety at the gig and stick to it.

Pare your own rig down to a one (or at most 2) trip rig so you can unload with less anxiety. Your own rig is your responsibility.

If you keep it simple and make everyone responsible for their own stuff, you may find that YOU are the one waltzing into the gig without a care. Of course lateness or no show would mean the ax for either of them.

YOU are in control - if they weren't there you could still sing songs & play, ditto if one of them doesn't show up. You may find it necessary to find a new situation, but don't underestimate their contributions either, if people are likeing the music, it's not just you. For a start, you can just delegate responsibilities & travel light. If anyone chokes, they're out.

GeraldTheModest:

Hope we haven't overwhelmed you with advice.

Keep this in mind: Leaving your old buddies to play with somebody else isn't a slamming of the door forever.
S--t like this takes time to heal.

If you do it right, you will still be friends.
And who knows, maybe in a few years you guys can re-unite. It happens.

ST

Here's what I get out of it...

First, does he have an amp or anything, or is it just your bass that he has to use? Either way, it's just one extra guitar. But I would propose that you maybe mention that if he wants to use it he can at least help you load and unload your stuff at the bar.

Another note, it's hard to be around drunk people when you're not. You may be leaving the bar before he's drunk, so this might be moot. And another thing, most alcoholics don't "admittedly" admit to being an alcoholic, it sounds like an excuse for wanting to party/hangout more than helping out a bit here and there.

No one is going to come to your residence and help load and unload your stuff there I'm guessing. So if it really comes down to shleping the bass around I think you're being resentful for something. Don't mind him and his vices unless it affects the band or your friendship in an honest way, not resentfully. You want to be clean, he doesn't. Keep on your road and go slow over the bumps. You can't change him, only yourself.

Jonny

Well here goes:

I am a drunk who got it together..... i haven't had a drink in over 14 years and the rest of the party favors for over 13..... it took me messing things up, straining relationships and getting tired

one of the guys in the band i did sound FOR wound up helping me, but only when i was ready.... he showed me where to go and how to get help

if this guy is your friend, nothing will stop that...not drink, drugs or a ****ty attitude..... talk to him like he is your friend.... and let him know what YOUR NEEDS ARE!....

If he wants to play with your band, then there need to be stipulations as to EVERYONE's conduct.... first one should be: Without the gear, we cannot play a gig; the gear must be safe BEFORE the guys do whatever they want

if he drinks or drugs, that's his crap....untill his crap gets on you!

I was drinking alot and a friend of mine kept telling me that "I WAS NOT AT MY BEST" when I drank. Instead of disregarding him, as I would have if he belittled me for it, I actually thought about it in a way that was positive. "Yeah", I would think....."I could be myself", which he emphasized as being 'really good'. His words gave me freedom and a choice, to choose on my own, as to whether or not I wanted to be 'good' or not. My guitar playing sucked when I was too drunk, so I chose to quit cold turkey, and for several years I have been alcohol free. As a result I was also able to quit smoking cigarettes. They went hand in hand w/ the drinking... If the usual approach to my problem would have been "YOU"RE A JERK", for gettin drunk, I probably would have drunk more to kill the emotional pain that those words would have caused... Just a thought?? By the way.. This friend of mine is a hyptonist. Apparently, his doing this for me is just standard stuff for his trade. [Positive reinforcement] Good luck..

I load/and unload my own guitar, pedal board, amp, etc. by myself, no one helps me. I don't see that as an issue. You live in a bad neighborhood, well that's your own problem. I don't see your beef with any of this.

If you're put out because you let him use your bass that you have to haul around, ok, make him get his own and be responsible for his own gear.

If you're upset because he wants to stay at the bar after you're ready to go home, grow up. People do what they want, especially band personnel.

If you can't work with him, dump him. But you didn't say anything about him not doing the job, just that he doesn't help you with your gear.

I'm sure a band can be set up however you lilke if it's clear to everyone what their responsibilities are and everyone's OK with it. But for me, I tend to think that the "job" isn't done until everyone's gear is packed up. The drummer has more stuff than most, so he deserve's a little help getting it out to his car. If there's an acoustic guitar player, who can just carry a gigbag and a cord in the door, he doesn't get a pass on all of the other work involved in playing a gig. Everyone should wrap cords and load the P.A. in and out. (And, by the way, part of everyone's "job" as a musician in a band is smoozing a little before, after and during the gig with the crowd and the venue's management.)

THEN, it's time for a little soda or beer or joints or whatever, or feel free to head home.

If it was me, I would line up some replacement players first and put up with your current guys in the meantime. Best of luck to you.

If it is a "band", then the responsibility for moving the equipment to and from the gig is a part of the job, and everyone in the band should be involved in getting ALL of said equipment both moved in and moved out. Once the stuff is at the gig, then everyone should take care of their own "part"...but, everyone should help carry everything in and out, regardless of whether the bass player is carrying a bass amp, or a bass drum....and visa verse. The gig is not over until all the equipment is back in its "safe" permanent "home", and EVERYONE should be "on the job" until that task is finished.

If you are serious about moving forward...you need people who are responsible and also serious about moving forward. If someone wants to take a month long trip, that should be planned well in advance, so that either everyone takes the month off, or a suitable replacement can be found for that time period.

If someone is a drunk, then all they are going to do is drag you down, emotionally and physically. You need to have a heart-to heart with that person about your goals and their goals, and whether those can co-exist.

It will be a difficult challenge for you to "make it" as a musician, even given the best of circumstances....why make it even more difficult by letting persons who are only there because of your talent and drive...AND ARE NOT EVEN SERIOUS ABOUT THE MUSIC...tag along for the ride?

Just want to say thanks to all the advice in the forum. I have decided to make it clear to my friend that if he's drunk for practice or a gig it is unacceptable. Also, I will reinforce to him that he should have his own instrument and be "on the job" until our equipment is taken back to our home. In addition, I also realize that I am not the only interesting part of the band and what makes us good is our chemistry. With these things in mind I will try to enhance my repertoire ie learning vocals for my next band (as I am aware that eventually all bands break up).

Thanks to everyone who has been so honest about their own drinking/drug use. I truly appreciate it.

Take care,
Gerald

If you think you can change things, you are dreaming. Drunks are drunks and not going to change, and a guy playing in three bands has problems committing to any of them. It's ok for a member to sit in with another band once in a while, if his band is not booked on a night, but how do you commit to a job if you don't know everybody is available on a particular night? You are being used. We've all been there before and it ain't fun. Loyalty is very important in our business. Showing up drunk, or stoned, or getting that way at a gig shows no respect for bandmates, or the audience, and cannot be tolerated, friends or not. True friends wouldn't do that to one another. Do yourself a favor and find new people who will do the job - without the drama.......

All your problems really boil down to one question: Is this guy worth the headaches?

If so, then put up with them. If not, get a new bass player.

I'm a big believer that you take the rough with the smooth when dealing with people. Nobody is ever going to be everything you want them to be 100% of the time, and if you make it your job to change them you'll only be forever frustrated and probably eventually become a person that's hated by both others and yourself.