Fret leveling beam - Is 8 inches long enough?

After reading Ron's fine tutorial on fret leveling, I purchased the quartz fret leveling beam that one of the members sells on Ebay. I thought I was buying the 18" beam but ended up with the 8" (it seems he no longer offers the longer beams).

So, will this do the job or should I look for something longer that covers the length of the fretboard?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions

After reading Ron's fine tutorial on fret leveling, I purchased the quartz fret leveling beam that one of the members sells on Ebay. I thought I was buying the 18" beam but ended up with the 8" (it seems he no longer offers the longer beams).

So, will this do the job or should I look for something longer that covers the length of the fretboard?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions

I would have told that you want something at least 18" long...BUT... when I moved to Texas to start Grad school, I had to leave my shop and all my lovely tools behind.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/Ashleys%20Jewelry%20Box/100_2477.jpg



I leveled frets for a long time with a piece of maple jointed straight on oneside with some 180 grit emery cloth glued to one side.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/Uncle%20Toms%20Guitars/100_2088.jpg


Then I got one of forum brother 4string's quartz polymer leveling beams.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/100_3190.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/100_3191.jpg

But when I moved down here to Texas, and left my shop in WV, I didn't have my leveling bar. So I used my Diasharp diamond sharpening stones.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/100_2865.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm308/coltwknight/100_2867.jpg


So what's the verdict?

The wood beam works just fine, but 4strings quartz polymer beam is a whole lot better. The added weight of the stone just makes it go so much faster. Plus you can use it as a very big sanding block to flatten surfaces.

However, my diasharp stones make fret leveling go even faster. I start with more Extra Coarse stone. Level the frets, then polish them with my Fine stone. Crown, and recheck for level.

This is all fine and good and all, but my sharpening stones are super expensive. You wouldn't want to purchase them for fret leveling. I think 4strings leveling bar is the way to go. its an excellent tool. If you are in a rush, a jointed piece of wood and sand paper will work fine as well. But to answer your initial question with a super long post... yes you can level frets with a short tool. People have been doing it for generations. You just have to be careful, you can unlevel your fret board quickly using a short block.

I also use the dia-sharp stones.
One of several methods.
Love the dia sharp coarse !

I also use the dia-sharp stones.
One of several methods.
Love the dia sharp coarse !

They are amazing stones. I use them all the time for sharpening, and as fine files.

I have the larger stones, and I think I gave ~200$ for the set of four, and had a buddy's wife make the case for me.

Thanks,

But what I'm trying to find out is, will I be able to use Ron's directions for fret leveling using the 8" Quartz leveler I have and not mess anything up?

Thanks,

But what I'm trying to find out is, will I be able to use Ron's directions for fret leveling using the 8" Quartz leveler I have and not mess anything up?

Well, no... not exactly. Its the same basic process, but there is a difference because you can't scrub all the frets at once.

I am sitting here trying to think of how to describe the process I use to make sure I keep everything straight and level, but I can't put it into words. Maybe Al or Koko Tele will chime in.

Thanks,

But what I'm trying to find out is, will I be able to use Ron's directions for fret leveling using the 8" Quartz leveler I have and not mess anything up?

You need a straight edge to check you have what you want, flat and level.
Mark the fret tops to make things easy and visual.
If you don't have a straight edge buy one.
I have a collection of Starrett straight edges some beveled some not .
2 of them are quite long. Enough to cover a bass neck.
I use some float glass planes as well as checked and known to be flat double cut files of various sizes. Not to forget my diamond stone ! Which I've actually put plenty of wear on.
Mainly I would say my advise would be get the a straight edge long enough to cover the length of your work(the neck) and make sure that you aren't looking at a board that has any raised areas or low areas, if your neck is more or less flat your leveling is much less troublesome.
If you have a rise at either end of the board you need to address that problem.
Your first thing to check is the truss rod tension. If the rod won't pull out your rise ( level the board) your going to have a steeper learning curve be cause you will need to selectively lower the higher areas. Thats a bit of an art and where you will make use of your shorter tools. The shorter tools are more appropriate to the leveling of smaller areas.
All of the work needs to be checked with the straight edge of the proper length. the nice thing about the sanding bar is its ability to hit all the fret tops at once. But you can do a nice job with out the bar If you have a good reference tool.
Koko seems to have the didactic urge to a higher degree than I, and RK's tutorial has I'm sure exhausted the subject so, hope I have been of some small help.
Let me assure you that "it ain't rocket science", you can do it given the time,patience and the correct tools.
The first grind and polish I ever did was on my dorm room desk with nothing more than my eyes, a mill bastard file and some sand paper. It worked just fine. I had no Idea what I was doing apart from making the buzzing go away.

Box sextion aluminium works well, and is about $10. This one is 50 x 30 x 1000mm, with a 1.5mm wall thickness. Almost all of them are dead straight, but check with a steel rule first.

I was going to cut it down to the same length as another I have - but I quite like the solidness of a 30" beam.

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/nickjdo/IMG_2510.jpg

Box sextion aluminium works well, and is about $10. This one is 50 x 30 x 1000mm, with a 1.5mm wall thickness. Almost all of them are dead straight, but check with a steel rule first.

I was going to cut it down to the same length as another I have - but I quite like the solidness of a 30" beam.

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/nickjdo/IMG_2510.jpg

Do they come straight on all four sides Nick, or just the narrower side?

Do they come straight on all four sides Nick, or just the narrower side?

I only checked the narrow side. I checked about ten and IIRC, about two were off - one only by maybe 0.3mm in the middle. To be honest I was really surprised at their straightness. It's actually a 2mm wall thickness, not 1.5. I'm not sure how they're made where you use the King's feet as a measure - probably 2" x 1".

I keep mine standing on its end, but I wouldn't trust the wide side to remain as straight as the narrow. But it still is. Straighter than the discrepancies in the sandpaper/glue thickness anyway.

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/nickjdo/IMG_2512.jpg

Box sextion aluminium works well, and is about $10. This one is 50 x 30 x 1000mm, with a 1.5mm wall thickness. Almost all of them are dead straight, but check with a steel rule first.

I was going to cut it down to the same length as another I have - but I quite like the solidness of a 30" beam.

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/nickjdo/IMG_2510.jpg

Thats a great suggestion. If it were straight it would work fine.
It would be nice to have something like that with some industrial diamond on one side. That would be a thing of beauty.
I'm not big on self adhesive papers, I never trust that the coating is as flat as a diamond stone.

I only checked the narrow side. I checked about ten and IIRC, about two were off - one only by maybe 0.3mm in the middle. To be honest I was really surprised at their straightness.
]

Do you think you could lap the bent ones with a straight one? Or would it remove too much material. I converted .3mm to inches, but its too small for me to get a mental handle on. I would have to physically see the gap to get an appreciation.

Thats a great suggestion. If it were straight it would work fine.
It would be nice to have something like that with some industrial diamond on one side. That would be a thing of beauty.
I'm not big on self adhesive papers, I never trust that the coating is as flat as a diamond stone.

That is what I love about my diasharp stones. I don't have to worry about spray glueing or buying sticky sand paper. And a lot of times the paper comes loose on the end.

I only checked the narrow side. I checked about ten and IIRC, about two were off - one only by maybe 0.3mm in the middle. To be honest I was really surprised at their straightness. It's actually a 2mm wall thickness, not 1.5. I'm not sure how they're made where you use the King's feet as a measure - probably 2" x 1".

I keep mine standing on its end, but I wouldn't trust the wide side to remain as straight as the narrow. But it still is. Straighter than the discrepancies in the sandpaper/glue thickness anyway.

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/nickjdo/IMG_2512.jpg

.3 mil is a nervous making thing thats many a .000
A good point about the abrasive thickness. That makes me nervous too !
And I am not the nervous type.

Do you think you could lap the bent ones with a straight one? .

Probably. I'd suggest buying a straight one though. There's plenty of steel rules in the hardware store.

Colt , you ever check out one of the 11.5 inch dia-sharps out ?
They sell them 2.5 wide and 11.5 inch long.
That would be of interest.

.3 mil is a nervous making thing thats many a .000
A good point about the abrasive thickness. That makes me nervous too !
And I am not the nervous type.

Yup, a third of a mm is quite a bit. 0.012" But that was the worst one on the shelf.

I have actually found these levels... this EXACT item... from Home Depot to be straight and true. The edge is actually machined... and they a have good balance and weight.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202035297/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I haven't had Nick's good fortune finding straight extrusion here...

Probably. I'd suggest buying a straight one though. There's plenty of steel rules in the hardware store.

I thought you just bought a stick, and were cutting them up yourself.

Colt , you ever check out one of the 11.5 inch dia-sharps out ?
They sell them 2.5 wide and 11.5 inch long.
That would be of interest.

I didn't even know they made them that long. I thought I bought the biggest set at 3"x8". Oh well, hind sight, right?


I did just put a precision straight edge on all four of my Diasharp stones. They were DOB accurate.

I think there are companies the do industrial diamond bonding.
If you had the coin that would be a fine tool.
I'm a bit concerned that temperature variation would change the aluminum straightness.
Its also a bit soft so would lack durability in the long run.
Still a thicker walled material is likely available.

I think there are companies the do industrial diamond bonding.
If you had the coin that would be a fine tool.
I'm a bit concerned that temperature variation would change the aluminum straightness.
Its also a bit soft so would lack durability in the long run.
Still a thicker walled material is likely available.

I wonder how heavy an 18" diasharp would be? They are heavy enough in 8" lengths to hurt your wrists while sharpening knives. Definetly need to set them on a table for long sharpening jobs.

I didn't even know they made them that long. I thought I bought the biggest set at 3"x8". Oh well, hind sight, right?


I did just put a precision straight edge on all four of my Diasharp stones. They were DOB accurate.

Might be new. They advertise them as being intended for the sharpening of pointed tools and large knives.
I think I might have to order one up come the dawn.
I'm due for a new stone anyway.

Might be new. They advertise them as being intended for the sharpening of pointed tools and large knives.
I think I might have to order one up come the dawn.
I'm due for a new stone anyway.

Im sure 82$ is nothing to a man of your means, might as well grab the whole set.:mrgreen:

Im sure 82$ is nothing to a man of your means, might as well grab the whole set.:mrgreen:

Well I hate to disappoint, but I'll only be buying 1.
Honestly I use the dia sharp every day.
I got the one I use as soon as I became aware that they existed and have used it every day since. (its my job)
I'll be happy to pay 82 bucks for the 11.5 inch stone.
If its as flat as the 8's :grin:
If not:sad: its goin' back !
I would go a buck fifty for an 18" in a heartbeat.
Remember though the dia's don't really claim to be dead flat.
They look to be .002 or so out on the 8" units.
Likely the 11.5 are the same or more.
I'll check with my Starrett's , which I do have a set of BTW and if the 11.5 dia is at a similar tolerance I'ma' keep it.

Well I hate to disappoint, but I'll only be buying 1.
Honestly I use the dia sharp every day.
I got the one I use as soon as I became aware that they existed and have used it every day since. (its my job)
I'll be happy to pay 82 bucks for the 11.5 inch stone.
If its as flat as the 8's :grin:
If not:sad: its goin' back !
I would go a buck fifty for an 18" in a heartbeat.
Remember though the dia's don't really claim to be dead flat.
They look to be .002 or so out on the 8" units.
Likely the 11.5 are the same or more.
I'll check with my Starrett's , which I do have a set of BTW and if the 11.5 dia is at a similar tolerance I'ma' keep it.

Yeah it doesn't need to be 0.0001" flat to sharpen tools. 0.002 is flat enough for guitar work. I bet thats flatter than glued on sandpaper.

Yeah it doesn't need to be 0.0001" flat to sharpen tools. 0.002 is flat enough for guitar work. I bet thats flatter than glued on sandpaper.

I guess we've all noticed the slop in the glued on sand paper deal.
Pretty happy with the .002
I'm totally geeking out on the idea of a new stone actually.

I guess we've all noticed the slop in the glued on sand paper deal.


Uhh, no, we haven't ...

Uhh, no, we haven't ...

Yeah Man !
Nice little business you have there.
Congratulations.
How much for a beam with an industrial diamond coating ?
It would need to have a carbide steel surface for the beam to be coated.
Aluminum can not be diamond coated.
Rock on !

Yeah Man !
Nice little business you have there.
Congratulations.
How much for a beam with an industrial diamond coating ?
It would need to have a carbide steel surface for the beam to be coated.
Aluminum can not be diamond coated.
Rock on !

Thank you AL, business is ticking over nicely, but I have no plans to offer a diamond coated beam.

I find (and my customers find) that a high quality self-adhesive abrasive combined with a beam ground to the kind of accuracy to which I work, yields results which could not be surpassed by a diamond coated beam, leastways as far as accuracy is concerned.

As far as longevity is concerned, well, maybe, but you could buy a lot of replacement abrasive strips for what it would cost to buy a diamond coated steel beam !

I often stick black wet/dry abrasive to my 8" glass fret-leveler by wetting the abrasive with water and pressing it on good with a roller. And it's not dripping wet, just wet enough that the paper sticks.

Thank you AL, business is ticking over nicely, but I have no plans to offer a diamond coated beam.

I find (and my customers find) that a high quality self-adhesive abrasive combined with a beam ground to the kind of accuracy to which I work, yields results which could not be surpassed by a diamond coated beam, leastways as far as accuracy is concerned.

As far as longevity is concerned, well, maybe, but you could buy a lot of replacement abrasive strips for what it would cost to buy a diamond coated steel beam !

You can't coat the aluminum beam anyway.
But thats cool.
We've got steel beams for sale over here that can be bonded.
Its more costly true , but I like the tools I like.
I'm looking it over cost wise. Its an option for me.
I've been using coated stones and files for years and personally prefer them.
I think your offering a nice product and selection in your market area. Continued success.