Opinions on b-bender: Factory & after-market

Greetings All!

I've had several Telecasters over the past few years including an American Deluxe and a Classic Player Baja, but I've never been able to get that classic Nashville twang ala Marty Stuart or Kenny Vaughan. I've swapped-out guitars, I've tried changes in electronics (e.g., pickups, pots, etc.), I've tried everything! I just can't seem to get close to that textbook twang, and it doesn't seem to matter what amp is being used.

Enter the Clarence White and other B-Bender Tele's.

What can those of you who are experienced with these limited edition B-Bender guitars tell me about their overall tone? The Clarence White version (apparently equipped with Strat neck pickup) seems to sound truly awesome on YouTube videos, etc., but its my understanding that the Fender Custom Shop made only 200 of those guitars (making them virtually impossible to find or afford), and from what I can tell, the newer but lesser-valued Fender production-line B-Benders just don't compare.

This leaves me with only one other option (the 'after-market' option) of having an entire B-bender mechanism retro-fitted into a suitable Telecaster by the original developer of the B-bender apparatus (Gene Parsons at www.StringBender.com), but here again, there's no guarantee of that 'twangy' tone, only the B-bending capability.

Anybody have any meaningful views that they can share with me on this subject? I just can't seem to decide how best to move forward.

I've owned several versions of teles, and nothing has gotten me closer to the sound you're talking about than low output bright pickups and steel saddles. As far as the bender, aftermarket is the way to go IMHO. Forrest lee jr. put one in my tele, and I love it. The amount of weight added was approximately 4 oz. after carving out the back. It works flawlessly, and the work is high quality.

Thanks Tele-Meister!

Regarding saddles and the reference to Forrest Lee, Jr., thank you for sharing those references with me. I'm grateful. I've already replaced the factory (Fender) brass saddles on my Baja Tele with a 'Bakersfield Twang' set from Glendale Guitars (i.e., 2x-steel + 1x-aluminum), and I'll definitely check into your friend Forrest Lee and his services re: a B-Bender mechanism. Sounds very cool!

However, regarding pickups, could you give me an example of a specific make and model of pickup that you and others would consider to be "low output bright" for a Tele? I ask this because I swapped-out the relatively worthless Fender "Noiseless" pickups on my original American Deluxe some years ago for a set of Seymour Duncan's (Neck = Vintage Rhythm STL-1 @ 7.3k ohm/Bridge = STL-1B Vintage Broadcaster @ ~ 7.6k ohm), and it still wasn't anything near what I would call Nashville 'twangy'. I've looked at Wolfetone's and Lollar's and others, so any help at all on this would be greatly appreciated.

I've used Don mare's in my last two teles, one had a Graf airship live (6.6k), and the other had a hayride (6.4k) in the bridge. Both give tons of cluck and twang. The rest is dependent upon your technique. My nocaster has twang, but I have to really dig in to get what I do without much effort from my other guitars...

Last post! I promise! Forrest lee equipped bender tele.

Hwy145,

Thanks for the photos. Nice! Very nice indeed! I'll definitely have to look into Forrest Lee, Junior's work!

One last thing . . . what are your views on the need for other changes in the electronic besides pickups? In other words, if a guy's already got a 3-saddle tailpiece with proper steel saddles and a decent set of "low output bright" pickups like the one's you've mentioned here from Don Mare, etc., does he still need to look at other potential changes to the electronics (i.e., pots, caps, etc.)? Or are those components less important?

Probably not what you want to hear, but I've been doin this stuff for a very long time...If you can't get that Sound out of a Stock Baja Tele (Well Set-up)...it's either You or your Amp...A Bender will do nothing to capture the Sound you want...although they are Fun....:wink:

Hwy145,

Thanks for the photos. Nice! Very nice indeed! I'll definitely have to look into Forrest Lee, Junior's work!

One last thing . . . what are your views on the need for other changes in the electronic besides pickups? In other words, if a guy's already got a 3-saddle tailpiece with proper steel saddles and a decent set of "low output bright" pickups like the one's you've mentioned here from Don Mare, etc., does he still need to look at other potential changes to the electronics (i.e., pots, caps, etc.)? Or are those components less important?

I added a bright cap so as to not lose highs when rolling off volume.

Probably not what you want to hear, but I've been doin this stuff for a very long time...If you can't get that Sound out of a Stock Baja Tele (Well Set-up)...it's either You or your Amp...A Bender will do nothing to capture the Sound you want...although they are Fun....:wink:

Yup! Whether I want to hear it or not, this is precisely the kind of feedback that I've often wondered about, and frankly, somewhat feared. In other words, it stands to reason that a properly equipped Tele (which some say the Baja easily qualifies for with its 3-saddle tailpiece and cold-rolled steel saddles), should give me that classic, squawky, chicken-pickin', Nashville-like twang. However, it does not, period! And I have some of the finest amps known to man here from DRRI's to Princeton's to Magnatones to Twins to Tweed's. Something is missing, plain and simple. Perhaps its the higher-output pickups of the American Deluxe and Baja, I don't know, but its definitely not quite right, not yet at least.

As for the B-bender mechanism itself leading to such tone, that was never my assertion. What I was alluding to was whether the limited edition Custom Shop Clarence White B-Bender's were equipped with bridge pickups that were inherently more conducive to that Nashville sound than my current Baja's. That was the intended question.

I should also add that there are droves of people out there (here on TDPRI and elsewhere) who have referenced similar difficulties with this same tonal Tele quest. You'll see them talk (for example) about Brad Paisley and Marty Stuart and the critical need for compressors and this cap or that mod or whatevah! Thus, it isn't simply straight off-the-shelf stuff.

To me and many others, the Fender Original Vintage Pickup that comes in the 52 RI is sorta the Benchmark for that Basic Tele Bridge sound, you might swap out that Broadcaster in the Baja for one of those ?

Thanks, that's good to know!

As I understand it, one or both of the two pickups in the Baja edition are somewhat prized, unlike other factory (OEM) offerings which are essentially fish-weights, so I'll assume from what you've said here that it must be the neck pickup which would then (presumably) would be worth keeping?

Also, the fact that Don Mares and others offer bridge-only replacements for Tele's like his 6.4k ohm, staggered pole, A5 Hayride, would seem to support such a change. So the question becomes, are the Fender '52 RI bridge pickups even available on an after-market basis?

Thanks, that's good to know!

As I understand it, one or both of the two pickups in the Baja edition are somewhat prized, unlike other factory (OEM) offerings which are essentially fish-weights, so I'll assume from what you've said here that it must be the neck pickup which would then (presumably) would be worth keeping?

Also, the fact that Don Mares and others offer bridge-only replacements for Tele's like his 6.4k ohm, staggered pole, A5 Hayride, would seem to support such a change. So the question becomes, are the Fender '52 RI bridge pickups even available on an after-market basis?

I'm sure they are, as are the highly regarded nocaster pickups. Not sure if they are sold individually, but I'm sure you can probably find them on the used market.

Sure are: Right here
http://www.darrenriley.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1886

I have a set of OV's... I hated them... I love the Baja broadcaster pickup.. I'd swap you if'n yer interested.

Also, my P/W B-bender was installed by Brian Friend (BrianF). I am not sure if he's still doing bender installs. I tried contacting him in February by email with no response. At any rate, he does fantastic work. Many members here, including me, can vouch for his work and timeliness.

I have a set of OV's...

OV's??? Doh! OV = Original Vintage?!@#$%&*? (Got it!). And apparently OV means the same as '52RI?? Good Lord! Could this possibly GET any more confusing?

I'm sure they are, as are the highly regarded nocaster pickups. Not sure if they are sold individually, but I'm sure you can probably find them on the used market.

In researching this a bit, I see that the so-called '51 Nocaster set is indeed available directly from Fender Custom Shop but only as a set, and of course, they don't provide resistance readings for them like some of the aftermarket winders do, to help in their selection.

I'm going to start by checking the resistance values for my two current Baja pickups, but meanwhile, does anyone know what the approximate resistance values for these Custom Shop '51 Nocasters are likely to be? Also, can anyone tell me how these '51 Nocaster's might compare (both in terms of resistance readings and tonal properties) with the '52 AVRI's?

And lastly, I'll reiterate my earlier concern about other potential differences in the electronics besides pickups. A quick review of related threads here on TDPRI and elsewhere reveals a number of '52 AVRI owners who report a big difference in tone from a stock '51 Nocaster even after installing CS '51 Nocaster pickups in their '52 AVRI's. Needless to say, this strongly implies that pickups alone are not the entire story.

Also, my P/W B-bender was installed by Brian Friend (BrianF). I am not sure if he's still doing bender installs. I tried contacting him in February by email with no response. At any rate, he does fantastic work. Many members here, including me, can vouch for his work and timeliness.

Brian is still around as I talk to him nearly everyday and yes he does great work.

but I've never been able to get that classic Nashville twang ala Marty Stuart

You might want to study Clarence's original bender tele (that is the one that Marty currently possesses) as it was a one of a kind. Search this forum and the CWF (Clarence White Forum) as this subject has been discussed in volumes of print.

You might want to study Clarence's original bender tele (that is the one that Marty currently possesses) as it was a one of a kind. Search this forum and the CWF (Clarence White Forum) as this subject has been discussed in volumes of print.

Yup, I'm aware of the fact that Marty owns/plays Clarence's original, but thanks for the pointers on the Clarence White Forum! I'd never heard of it before.

OV's??? Doh! OV = Original Vintage?!@#$%&*? (Got it!). And apparently OV means the same as '52RI?? Good Lord! Could this possibly GET any more confusing?

Yes, OV = Original Vintage = 52RI pickups...

Nocasters are wound to nearly the same specs as OVs and they are the same magnets - 7.2Kish for the Bridge and 7Kish for the neck.. Nocasters are considered by some, to be darker than OVs. I do believe the have different wires though.

As far as I am concerned, neither will get you that Bakersfield sound. IMO, that sound can be had by A5s wound to about 6 to 6.5K for the bridge. Owen Duffy makes a mean Bakersfield sounding set... The underwound nature of those pickups will give you the rich harmonics and uber-twang.

The Baja set should be about 10K for the bridge which are A5s and about 5K for the neck which I believe are also A5s but they use the P bass magnets. There is a thread here where Alan Hamel, the orginator of the Twisted Tele neck, speaks of the construction. Your Broadcaster pickup should be very much like a Texas Special, only with flatpoles and plastic wires...

Any rate, good luck with your tone quest...

Also, my P/W B-bender was installed by Brian Friend (BrianF). I am not sure if he's still doing bender installs. I tried contacting him in February by email with no response. At any rate, he does fantastic work. Many members here, including me, can vouch for his work and timeliness.

Hi Moonshiner...I'm still around...sorry I messed your email in Feb... Brian

Hi Moonshiner...I'm still around...sorry I messed your email in Feb... Brian

Glad to hear it... No problems. Still love your work! Still my #1...

I gotta agree with Mellecaster. If you don't think those Seymour Duncan Broadcasters were Nashville/twangy enough, I can't make a suggestion.

Moonshiner,

Many thanx! This is precisely the kind of information or feedback that I've been seeking. If the Nocaster or OV sets will not get me there, and I need to look elsewhere (i.e., Duffy, Mares, etc.), then so be it. It means that I'm on the right track and that I'd be wise to slowdown and learn some more before I start pulling the trigger on replacements.

Moonshiner,

Many thanx! This is precisely the kind of information or feedback that I've been seeking. If the Nocaster or OV sets will not get me there, and I need to look elsewhere (i.e., Duffy, Mares, etc.), then so be it. It means that I'm on the right track and that I'd be wise to slowdown and learn some more before I start pulling the trigger on replacements.


OC Duff is one helluva pickup winder. I use his pickups in all my special projects.

I gotta agree with Mellecaster. If you don't think those Seymour Duncan Broadcasters were Nashville/twangy enough, I can't make a suggestion.

What "Seymour Duncan Broadcasters" are we talkin' about here? The only Seymour Duncan Broadcaster that I've ever personally evaluated was in an American Deluxe and it was grossly underwhelming (in terms of twang) when compared to the Baja Broadcaster. The Baja was a major step forward in that regard, but at 9.6k, it too still lacks what I'm hoping a 6.0-6.5k will provide.

What "Seymour Duncan Broadcasters" are we talkin' about here? The only Seymour Duncan Broadcaster that I've ever personally evaluated was in an American Deluxe and it was grossly underwhelming (in terms of twang) when compared to the Baja Broadcaster. The Baja was a major step forward in that regard, but at 9.6k, it too still lacks what I'm hoping a 6.0-6.5k will provide.

Ive installed 4 or 5 of the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster bridge pickups in my guitars, and they have all been super twangy. Very close to the Boutique pickups that cost 2-3 x as much.

One of the things I don't like about the American Deluxes are the super thin necks. I'll probably get flamed for this, but IMHO, bigger necks have better tone.

One of the things I don't like about the American Deluxes are the super thin necks. I'll probably get flamed for this, but IMHO, bigger necks have better tone.

Yup, that's precisely why I'd like to make this simple mod (change of pups) to my Baja rather than buy another Tele altogether, because I'm extremely happy with the Baja in nearly every other way including the great V-neck.

Yup, that's precisely why I'd like to make this simple mod (change of pups) to my Baja rather than buy another Tele altogether, because I'm extremely happy with the Baja in nearly every other way including the great V-neck.

If it were me, and remember, its me not you:

1. Bone Nut
2. Gut out the BAJA wiring and put in more traditional tele wiring.
3. Glendale or Marc Rutters Brass saddles
4. New pickups. I'd consider a Seymour Duncan Jerry Donahue or boutique.

I know you mentioned Marty Stuart and Kenny Vaughn as tonal examples. Those guys are really classic examples of tone is in the fingers guys because I see them with different teles (especially Kenny) and amps ranging from Vox to Fender twins, and even smaller amps. I watched a recent interview with Marty Stuart saying that he and Kenny are using a lot of smaller amps to record and play live with, mostly Princetons.

If it were me, and remember, its me not you:

1. Bone Nut
2. Gut out the BAJA wiring and put in more traditional tele wiring.
3. Glendale or Marc Rutters Brass saddles
4. New pickups. I'd consider a Seymour Duncan Jerry Donahue or boutique.

Got rid of the American Deluxe with Seymour Duncan's! Got rid of the brass saddles that came stock on the Baja! They didn't cut it! So why do I now get this ominous feeling that I'm starting all over again here?

There's simply gotta be a way to get there short of constructing an entirely new custom build. There's gotta be!

Moonshiner,

Many thanx! This is precisely the kind of information or feedback that I've been seeking. If the Nocaster or OV sets will not get me there, and I need to look elsewhere (i.e., Duffy, Mares, etc.), then so be it. It means that I'm on the right track and that I'd be wise to slowdown and learn some more before I start pulling the trigger on replacements.

You are most welcome. Remeber, this is my opinion.. And you know what they say about opinions? The OVs and Nocasters both twang.. But they are not Bakersfield twangy... To me.. YMMV...

I am of the same opinion as you about Duncan pickups. Never been a fan. To me, they lack life.. Sounded good.. just sterile.

If you are going in the direction of boutique winders, check out Aaron Campbell at Rumpelstiltskin or Uncle Fezz at Fezzter. Both have good reputations as well and neither are as pricey as Don. Aaron wound me some great pickups...

I am of the same opinion as you about Duncan pickups. Never been a fan. To me, they lack life.. Sounded good.. just sterile.


Yup, precisely. They sounded nice and clean and all the other superlative adjectives, but they lacked character, and if there's anything a Tele has or should have (IMO), its character.

and from what I can tell, the newer but lesser-valued Fender production-line B-Benders just don't compare.

Don't knock em unless you've tried em. I have a couple fender nashville benders and like them just fine. :wink:


As to getting the twang......it's something that lives more in your picking hand than in the gear that you're using. If you're still flat pickin everything, start working on some 'hybrid' pickin instead.

Cheers!
:cool:

Don't knock the Fender Nashville Tele - I got great use out of it and it sounded wonderful. It is a '99 so I don't know if that is considered old or not...certainly not by acoustic guitar standards. I am getting it ready for sale this week as I did buy a double-bender from Forrest. Forrest, Brian - there are some talented people here who do work - what i will say about Parson is that you are gonna pay a lot for the name! There is like, uh, zero difference between the Caddilac Escalade and the Chevy/GM version. But that shiny medallion on the front of the Caddilac is gonna cost you about $12,000.

I found a 2000 sun burst USA nashville bender on e bay with out the bender I bid 550.00 it went for 515.00 I bought a new pg bender for 300.00 and it fit perfectly. It is not perfect couple of dings. But sound and intonation is near perfect. I just ordered a brand new nashville in black 1500.00 I will have it this week 6/2/11. Along with a new mustang 4 amp. Fender USA benders are the way to go. I install PG benders and have cut in several in China teles that cost under 175.00 to new American standards. I have 30 years of cabinet making so for me it is only a couple hour job. I am twice the carpenter that I am guitar player. Dont get me wrong forest is good and all the others.