Calling neck setup gurus

I'm sitting at work drawing little pictures of what could cause fret buzz in different areas of the FB. Starting at the nut, I divided the neck into frets 1-4, 5-11 and 12 to end. Assuming it is a good neck, please let me if I'm on the right track.
Possible causes of fret buzz. (remember this is just the thinking of someone who doesn't have a clue)
Frets 1-4 bad frets, too much relief or a low nut.
Frets 5-11 bad frets, saddles too low, not enough relief or needs shim at rear of heel (away from pickups)
Frets 12-end bad frets, saddles too low, not enough relief, needs shim at rear of heel or need fret drop off in the higher frets.

Too much relief can cause buzzing in the middle and upper registers. The problem is that the widest point of vibration of the string is not at the widest point of the bow in the neck. You want the neck just about as straight as possible.

If the neck is straight, buzzing will be caused by either high frets or low saddles.

If there's buzzing when the string is not fretted, it's likely that the nut slot is too low.

Thanks Koko and "private message guy". I was setting up a new neck I got from Warmoth as best I could. Did a fret level and polish which came out well and then performed the rest of the steps which I culled from Ron Kirn and other places on this forum. A while ago I had found some measurements on the Gibson site for clearance at the 12th fret. It was .078 on the bass side and .042 on the treble side with steps for the rest of the strings. After trying these measurements on the Warmoth neck I had to raise the saddles a tiny bit to get rid of the buzzes around the 7th to 10th frets on the A, D and G strings but it is good now. Maybe the Gibson specs are a bit too low. Any hoo, I was just wondering if there is a clearcut "this section of the neck is affected by this" kinda thing. Some people try to make guitar set up look like Harry Potter stuff, but from what I read here for the most part it seems to be just patience and LOTS of practice. Oh and maybe a few oddball tools that have no other funtion on the planet.

One of the oft unseen factors is how YOU personally pick the string. Just because a site specifies a measurement for various strings, in no way is or can be "correct" for all guitarists.

first adjust the saddles so the strings are somewhere near the the height you wanna end with. Also check the clearance of each string at the 1st fret, this will help identify if the nut is cut correctly, there should be about .035 or about 1/32 ... but that may be too low for heavy pickers..

If you fret the G 3rd at the 1st fret and the 20th.... and there is about .020 +- clearance around the 7th - 10th frets... that much is correct.... FLAT and touching the frets... no good...

Once the neck's bow and the string slots in the nut are correct, you can start fooling around with the height of the saddles.., lower each until the string begins buzzing when you play it, then start backing off... about 1/2 turn per saddle screw at a time.... once you are able to play it without buzzing, give the screws another 1/2 turn.... do it to all of 'em and forget about measuring 'em. You're not gonna be playing a ruler. :wink:

Ron Kirn

One of the oft unseen factors is how YOU personally pick the string. Just because a site specifies a measurement for various strings, in no way is or can be "correct" for all guitarists.

first adjust the saddles so the strings are somewhere near the the height you wanna end with. Also check the clearance of each string at the 1st fret, this will help identify if the nut is cut correctly, there should be about .035 or about 1/32 ... but that may be too low for heavy pickers..

If you fret the G 3rd at the 1st fret and the 20th.... and there is about .020 +- clearance around the 7th - 10th frets... that much is correct.... FLAT and touching the frets... no good...

Once the neck's bow and the string slots in the nut are correct, you can start fooling around with the height of the saddles.., lower each until the string begins buzzing when you play it, then start backing off... about 1/2 turn per saddle screw at a time.... once you are able to play it without buzzing, give the screws another 1/2 turn.... do it to all of 'em and forget about measuring 'em. You're not gonna be playing a ruler. :wink:

Ron Kirn

This is pretty much how I do it.

Thanks for the post Mr. Kirn. One of the problems I have always had with wood working and now guitar stuff is I am too anal. 20 years working in aerospace where a really big tolerance is a human hair has probably caused the problem. I feel the need to have a measurement for everything. It's hard to let go. I'll never be much of a player but hope to be a good builder. And I bet I have some of the most accurate templates anywhere. :grin:

first adjust the saddles so the strings are somewhere near the the height you wanna end with. Also check the clearance of each string at the 1st fret, this will help identify if the nut is cut correctly, there should be about .035 or about 1/32 ... but that may be too low for heavy pickers..

Ron, are you sure about that .035" at the first fret? That's more than twice as high as I set my nuts. Even the heaviest pickers or slide players don't need more than about .020"

I also set my first fret distance at .020". When a guitar guru says .035", I'm confused. That seems really high, even for an acoustic.

I set it there initially, then fine tune is after the neck settles a few days.... I should have mentioned I'm usually doing new necks so they must acclimate to the tensions encountered when tuned to pitch so I'm working on one end, and readjusting the other. A guitar that has "been around" will not need as much clearance.

r

Can one of you tell me if the SM "Nut Slotting Gauge" is a worthwile tool ?
For sixty bucks it seems like working with a dial indicator would be easier than fumbling with feeler gauges ?

Can one of you tell me if the SM "Nut Slotting Gauge" is a worthwile tool ?

If you're doing a lot of necks, yes... best money you can spend, for just a few, there is floating around somewhere a template image that works just as well.

60 bux?? check this... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Straightedges/String_Spacing_Rule.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=16704

Ron Kirn

Thanks Ron
Yeah I got one of those after having botched setting up string spacing on the bridge I replaced on my Spider bridge resonator last year.

The Dial indicator for string height at the nut when divided by the # of guitars I have works out pretty resonably, compared to tech fee's.

The way I'm starting to look at this, after building a couple guitars is taking ones total # of guitars times set up fee's for each = total amount for tools to learn to do this. Of course at the expense of learning and possibly botching my own guitars.
However that is less likely with the help of this forum and your priceless posts.:wink:

On another note, I stopped by a countertop shop a few weeks ago. Started talking to the sales person about a piece of scrap for a fret leveing tool. He went back to the shop kinda struck out then a light bulb went off and he walked me over to a closet. There were hundereds of smaller various sizes, let me pick out a size I was looking for and got a nice piece of quartz and would let me give him anything for it.:cool:

I don't know about you guys but I constantly think my guitars are playing harder or changing due to the weather. I realise that it's a OCD thing with me but that's why I measure my action. If the guitar seemed to be fighting me I get out the engineers ruler and realise that there's nothing wrong with it but my skill ( and arthritis) .

. If the guitar seemed to be fighting me I get out the engineers ruler and realise that there's nothing wrong with it but my skill ( and arthritis) .

Your engineer's rule must be a lot easier to read than my engineer's rule, gitold.

I can't get to much less than + or - .010" reading a rule.

Which is why I use other methods of measuring action ...

Thanks for the post Mr. Kirn. One of the problems I have always had with wood working and now guitar stuff is I am too anal. 20 years working in aerospace where a really big tolerance is a human hair has probably caused the problem. I feel the need to have a measurement for everything. It's hard to let go. I'll never be much of a player but hope to be a good builder. And I bet I have some of the most accurate templates anywhere. :grin:You will make your self go nutz like this!
An elder friend of mine had me put a roof on his new studio and was quite upset that my courses ran as much as 1/16" off over a 20' run.:shock:
I can guarantee you that there was more error than that simply due to tolerances in the asphalt shingles!:lol:
Asked him if he could see the error from the deck and he mellowed out:mrgreen:

Your guitar will move more that a couple thousandths just from temp and humidity throughout the seasons.

As Ron said, you are not playing a ruler, even if you might rule, Dude!:cool:

Can one of you tell me if the SM "Nut Slotting Gauge" is a worthwile tool ?
For sixty bucks it seems like working with a dial indicator would be easier than fumbling with feeler gauges ?

I use mine every day and wouldn't be without it. Another indispensable tool, as far as I'm concerned, is the Stewmac String Lifter ($4.79). Both tools make cutting nut slots a breeze. If you only do one or two setups a year, the dial gauge probably isn't worth the investment. Get the Stewmac String Action Gauge for $19.