tele wiring

i know that for a good middle position sound you'll ned a dark/muddy neck pup, but then the neck on it's own sounds way to dark/muddy (duh). is there a way i can put in a keystone pickup set (maybe even an s telly neck), then put in a 4 way switch, and than wire the fourth position like this: the bridge just normally on but the neck pickup with the tone rolled or something to make the neck sound darker?

i am no expert in caps and resistors and stuff (i'm 13 :P) so can you guys please explain it really easy?

anybody?

What is it that you don't like about your current sound? Try setting up your rig so you have a decent neck pu tone.Then, if switching to the middle or bridge is too bright try adjusting with the guitar's tone knob.

I've been playing with guitars for many years and never heard the "need a dark/muddy neck pu to get a good middle position tone". Lots of people repeat things they hear without ever thinking about it. Believe me, you have a lot of years to play and you will hear many opinions on equipment, tone, etc. My advice is to not believe much of what you hear and try to verify it before you pass it on. Good luck!

What is it that you don't like about your current sound? Try setting up your rig so you have a decent neck pu tone.Then, if switching to the middle or bridge is too bright try adjusting with the guitar's tone knob.

I've been playing with guitars for many years and never heard the "need a dark/muddy neck pu to get a good middle position tone". Lots of people repeat things they hear without ever thinking about it. Believe me, you have a lot of years to play and you will hear many opinions on equipment, tone, etc. My advice is to not believe much of what you hear and try to verify it before you pass it on. Good luck!

that i'm 13 doesn't mean that i havent played different tele's. i once played a tele wich had a dark neck pup wich on its own sounded pretty dark and muddy but the middle position sounded super awesome. what i have now sounds like nothing

So, it sounds like you have established a theory based on the comparison between 2 guitars. That is not enough to go on. You need to consider what is in the tone circuit of each guitar, and what pickups and the type of magnet in the pickups. If you knew how that other guitar was wired you could copy it, but still might not get the same results if you have different pickups. I suggest you read all the threads here you can find on different wiring/pickup options, learn to solder, and start experimenting. There are some very inexpensive and simple mods you can do.

So, it sounds like you have established a theory based on the comparison between 2 guitars. That is not enough to go on. You need to consider what is in the tone circuit of each guitar, and what pickups and the type of magnet in the pickups. If you knew how that other guitar was wired you could copy it, but still might not get the same results if you have different pickups. I suggest you read all the threads here you can find on different wiring/pickup options, learn to solder, and start experimenting. There are some very inexpensive and simple mods you can do.

even if i did the same wiring i'd still have a ugly neck sound. and the guitar is somewhere i don't know :(

Most people complain that the neck pickup is TOO dark. For this I would suggest taking the neck pup out of the tone circuit. It seems that you might want to try the opposite, and take the bridge pup out of the tone circuit, so you can turn the tone knob way down to darken the neck pup, while the bridge pup will stay bright.

Remove the wire running between the outer lugs of the volume and tone pots. Replace it with a longer piece of wire running from the tone pot to the same lug on the switch that the lead from the neck pickup is attached to. The tone will then only be effective on the neck pup. When you switch to position 2, you will be using both pickups AND have tone control (effecting only the neck pup). The unaffected bridge pup will maintain definition in your tone.

I have to say,I disagree.No offense but once you activate both pickups at the same time I believe the tone control will affect both pickups.What I have always done is (and this IS a pain) mix and match pickups.I've tried hotter neck pickups(I didn't like) and weaker neck pickups.Its all about frequency response and your ears and that makes it tough to find the right match.I personally like the Fender "Original Vintage" neck pickup but I have to say they do vary slightly in sound,I've tried three of them in one guitar and there was one clear winner.

After thinking about it, I realize you are probably right. I am not at home where I can double-check. Can anyone else elaborate? And will it make a difference if the pups are wired in series or parallel?

Remove the wire running between the outer lugs of the volume and tone pots. Replace it with a longer piece of wire running from the tone pot to the same lug on the switch that the lead from the neck pickup is attached to. The tone will then only be effective on the neck pup. When you switch to position 2, you will be using both pickups AND have tone control (effecting only the neck pup). The unaffected bridge pup will maintain definition in your tone.

will that only have effect on the middle position

No. It will make it so the tone knob only works for the neck pickup. It's an easy modification, and costs nothing. You just need an extra piece of wire and a little solder. So you can try it, and if it doesn't work for you, change it back. Or run the wire from the bridge pickup lug on the switch, and see if you like that.

will it make a difference if the pups are wired in series or parallel?

One sounds thicker and has higher output. I'm blanking on which though:P school has fried my brain today. You can do the 4-way switch mod and have the added position for a series/ parallel option. If you so wish you could use a 5-way strat switch and wire a cap. into the circuit with the neck pup to darken the sound.

Well, in series gives you higher output. It combines the resistance of both pickups. Parallel gives you the average of the resistance of both pickups - neck @ 8k in parallel with bridge @ 9k equals 8.5k resistance.

What I was wondering is, with my wiring idea, would it make a difference how much effect the tone circuit would have on the pickup that is not wired directly into the tone circuit.

I'm wondering if the OP's pickups are wired out of phase. That would produce a thin nasally sound.

>>
I've been playing with guitars for many years and never heard the "need a dark/muddy neck pu to get a good middle position tone". Lots of people repeat things they hear without ever thinking about it.
>>



I'm the one who said, this time at least, that I've heard more than once about a great, special, magic mid position sound in cases where the neck pu was pretty dark or muddy.
I myself can believe that because of my own experience with Tele pups searching for a "special" mid position sound.
The balance between the pups in terms of individual strength in the mix is very important too (inherent volume of a given pu and/or it's height, position, etc)

In my current main Tele were I have a set of Nocaster pups, I have the neck pu at a height that produces a nice mid pos timbre with the bridge pu on it's own sounding good at it's height. So I sacrifice the tone of the neck pu towards a more interesting mid and bridge position sounds. In this case I use the tone control to make a nicer neck pu sound.
But I can perfectly imagine a case in which the neck pu is dark and the mid position very nice.
IIRC, the MIM Classic 60s Tele has a very special mid position and maybe a darky neck pu?

So in this case I was not repeating something, I'm a location sound recordist for almost 20 years and just pay a lot of attention to timbre and in the case of electric guitars, how to obtain certain timbres that I find specially apealing and satisfying.


Just to clarify, I don't feel offended at all, just explaining my comment because for me the search of a special mid pos sound is one of my "obsesions" as a Tele-addict :P

Remove the wire running between the outer lugs of the volume and tone pots. Replace it with a longer piece of wire running from the tone pot to the same lug on the switch that the lead from the neck pickup is attached to. The tone will then only be effective on the neck pup. When you switch to position 2, you will be using both pickups AND have tone control (effecting only the neck pup). The unaffected bridge pup will maintain definition in your tone.

This mod, which I think is a common circuit in Gibson guitars, affects whatever is selected (n, n+b, b). It's effect is a different high freqs roll-off curve when you turn the volume down.

The Keystone pups are great and you won't regret.

But focusing on a pu set that has a specially nice mid pos sound and good sound on both pups alone too: the pickups of the Fender MIM 60s (the neck pu is the same of the MIM 50s but the bridge pu is different, staggered and clearer) Many agree that it's a stock set of pickups that will stay in their guitars. That's what I recall.

Another option you have is be happy with what you have and play it!
Then you could use a push-pull pot (the tone pot for instance) to get rid of the tone cap to ground (in any selector position, but you want it to get the mud out of that neck pu) - when you pull the knob you "eliminate" the tone control which is sending some high freq content (brightness) to ground.
Also, remember that a new set of strings and trying different amps may reveal to you a nice neck pu where you now just perceive it as a plain dark pu.

This mod, which I think is a common circuit in Gibson guitars, affects whatever is selected (n, n+b, b). It's effect is a different high freqs roll-off curve when you turn the volume down.

The Keystone pups are great and you won't regret.

But focusing on a pu set that has a specially nice mid pos sound and good sound on both pups alone too: the pickups of the Fender MIM 60s (the neck pu is the same of the MIM 50s but the bridge pu is different, staggered and clearer) Many agree that it's a stock set of pickups that will stay in their guitars. That's what I recall.

Another option you have is be happy with what you have and play it!
Then you could use a push-pull pot (the tone pot for instance) to get rid of the tone cap to ground (in any selector position, but you want it to get the mud out of that neck pu) - when you pull the knob you "eliminate" the tone control which is sending some high freq content (brightness) to ground.
Also, remember that a new set of strings and trying different amps may reveal to you a nice neck pu where you now just perceive it as a plain dark pu.

I think you did not correctly read what I posted, but it doesn't really matter.

The mod I suggest connects one pickup directly to the tone pot. When both pickups are selected, the tone knob will affect both pickups, since everything is then included in the circuit, but when the other pickup is selected the tone control is omitted.

It was a common Tele mod at one time, with the neck pup being omitted from the tone circuit in an attempt to balance out the tone between the darker, lower output neck pickup and the bright, in-your-face tone of the bridge pup.

I think you did not correctly read what I posted, but it doesn't really matter.

The mod I suggest connects one pickup directly to the tone pot. When both pickups are selected, the tone knob will affect both pickups, since everything is then included in the circuit, but when the other pickup is selected the tone control is omitted.

It was a common Tele mod at one time, with the neck pup being omitted from the tone circuit in an attempt to balance out the tone between the darker, lower output neck pickup and the bright, in-your-face tone of the bridge pup.

oops! silly me! yes I didn't get that (since I didn't check the circuit carefully trying to see waht was really doing and assumed it was another circuit!)
Happy to learn. Nice circuit then, thank you!

And most importantly, great for the original poster! Problem solved!



--> EDIT: wait, now that I check the circuit again I can't see how it can use the tone for two of the three selections... it is at the output affecting any selection... no selection seem to be free of the capacitor to ground...
???