Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender ?

"griole...........I've enjoyed reading these posts, but my position hasn't changed. Nor have, I will assume, any of those with opposing views been "converted". I think we should tip our hats to Fender for providing us with so many choices. "
Very well said Sir........I knew some "voice of reason" would finally make it to this thread.
WPO

I would not hesitate to gig my Squier CVC. I would bring another guitar for back-up even if I owned a Custom shop or other 'valuable' guitar. As far as being the standard.....NO! It is a great guitar when taking into consideration its value but it is not the BEST. Simple man making simple observations.....

Yeah, that was one of the most unfortunate & ludicrous generalizations I've ever read on this forum in many years. It was obviously motivated by a bunch of factors that have nothing to do with craftsmanship, which is fine, but it can't be taken the least bit seriously in terms of rating the build quality. In a blind playing test, most guys making these outlandish claims wouldn't have a clue where which guitar was made.

Japan, Korea, Mexico & China have all taken their lumps over the years... I'm sure there will be others in the future, too.

So you're with me or against me? ...not sure what you're saying...

So you're with me or against me? ...not sure what you're saying...


I'm with ya

Yeah, that was one of the most unfortunate & ludicrous generalizations I've ever read on this forum in many years. It was obviously motivated by a bunch of factors that have nothing to do with craftsmanship, which is fine, but it can't be taken the least bit seriously in terms of rating the build quality. In a blind playing test, most guys making these outlandish claims wouldn't have a clue where which guitar was made.

Japan, Korea, Mexico & China have all taken their lumps over the years... I'm sure there will be others in the future, too.



So you're with me, or against me? ...not sure what you're saying...:confused:

If you're saying that what I said was ludicrous and unfortunate, what in the WORLD are you talking about? ...what I said is just true FROM MY PERSONAL FRICKIN' EXPERIENCE, dude!!! ...the last part was just a joke--total sarcasm--the thing about the "Oh, the horror" and all... :rolleyes: I WAS JOKING!!! ...sheesh...lighten up!

Actually, people come up and say stuff like, "Whoa, you did a great job, man...and you're tone is fantastic..." People don't care about the Fender/Squier thing unless they are some snarky Fender-only dude...most people I know agree that Squiers are just fine...I never implied that they are better or on the same level as American Fenders (MIMs? probably)...

AND I would never say Squiers are the "Standard for Excellence!"
The name of this thread should've been something like...
"How do Squiers compare to American Fenders?" or something like that...
They're NOT AS GOOD...do you get me now?

...In my opinion, THEY NEED TO HAVE SOME MODS DONE TO THEM and then they are fine guitars (and I'm NOT talking about Bullets or Affinities, ok? I'm talking CVs and VMs, they are fine guitars in my experience)...did you read that? Hello?????

AFTER THEY HAVE SOME WORK DONE TO THEM, I LIKE THEM...
...me, personally, I like them.....and I have had success with them in my humble local band career, while no one knows the difference, and even other musicians are well pleased with what they hear...

The people who think Squiers suck, always will...
Oh well...
I'll just keep making people happy with my two VM Indian Beauties in my own little unfortunate and ludicrous world...:mrgreen:

btw...my two beauties were made in India....i doubt if many (OR ANY) people, would be able to tell that they are not "professional grade" from out in the audience...sound-wise OR looks...people have to walk right up and look closely to see (gasp) Squier instead of Fender on the headstock...and then it's like this.....
"Oh! the horror! all that guitar work you did...all that music that I just enjoyed...oh...please, give me a cutip..I must purge the memory of this sub-grade abomination from my beguiled and abused ears....":lol:

The last part WAS A JOKE...Hello? :lol:

unfortunate and ludicrous? There's no doubt I am both...but don't you GET what I'm really saying? Seriously, dude...lighten up!

...and I am definitely outlandish! :lol:

...and I am definitely outlandish! :lol:



Wow, dude.... I completely agreed with you so maybe you should re-read what I wrote with the understanding that my point about what I view as an "unfortunate & ludicrous" generalization was from a previous poster that claimed Squiers weren't professional grade because he has a problem with China or whatever.

Definitely time to stick a fork in this one.

I love my Squier.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k233/fungusyoung/Gear/IMG_0035.jpg

Wow, dude.... I completely agreed with you so maybe you should re-read what I wrote with the understanding that my point about what I view as an "unfortunate & ludicrous" generalization was from a previous poster that claimed Squiers weren't professional grade because he has a problem with China or whatever.

Definitely time to stick a fork in this one.

I love my Squier.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k233/fungusyoung/Gear/IMG_0035.jpg

I was hoping that might be the case...then I started ranting...and it got kinda fun! Getting it all out on the snarky ones...good to know you're not one of them. Yeah, glad you're a fellow Squier lover...:mrgreen:

Hey! Sweet Tele and amps!!!!!!!

My Avatar shows my Indian Teles ...my amp is just a Fender Blues Jr. and I use a Vox Tonelab pedal... and I go mic-ed into the system...:cool:

I have a Squier Bullet/Affinity hybrid,a Duo-Sonic CV,and a Gretsch Electromatic,largely bought new,because I wanted to see for myself what all the buzz was about.I'd played a fair number of Squiers when they first came out,concluding that yes,the technological advances incorporated in their manufacture DID make them better than the hobby/student/budget-level instruments they were designed to(and did) replace.But like the brands they replaced,they were hobby/student/budget-level instruments,as they were intended to be.Not bad,but like their predecessors,not robust,reliable,or toneful enough for hard professional use 5-sets-a-night-six-nights-a-week.
All of the dozen-plus pre-CBS,CBS,FMIC,and G&L guitars and basses I have owned (I still have most of them) and heavily gigged over 51 years were robust,reliable,and toneful enough to meet that standard.While some individual Squier-branded guitars MAY be useable without replacing components or correction of manufacturing defects,my experience has been that Fender-branded instruments built by the parent company in the parent company's home country WILL be useable as delivered,so I'm willing to pay the premium.YMMV.

I've been playing electric guitars for 46 years now.
I could care less what is written on the headstock.
If the guitar feels good in my hands...if it intonates correctly up and down the neck....if it stays in tune....if it sounds good amplified.....if it can take a little bit of a beating....well...then to me it is a good guitar and I don't really give a rats a$$ who made the damned thing. The guitar that I currently play all the time now happens to say Squire on the headstock. I didn't buy it because of internet hype. A friend bought a classic vibe series guitar and it impressed me. I found one (a CVC) in a store that blew me away.
The insinuation that many people have bought these guitars due to hype is laughable. I think most folks here are free thinkers and can judge a guitar on its merits, without the need of a support group to tell them what to think/buy.

+1 Red Square. Also been playing for 40-some years. Bought my first Tele 41 years ago. It was also a $200 guitar. It was heavy (still is), built like a tank, set-up great and sounded better than my bandmate's SG. That's what the CV I played in my local shop felt like. A bit heavy, set-up well and sounded great through a Fender amp (no surprise there). So, I took it home. I'm sure I won't be playing it 41 years from now, since I'll be 96, but it's a keeper, no matter what's on the peghead.

Nothing against Squier as I'm sure it's had a hard life.. but isn't he missing a tuner key?

Nothing wrong with those early MIJ squiers. I love mine.

Nothing wrong with those early MIJ squiers. I love mine.

+1 - 83 Squier and late 80s Fender, both MIJ, both wonderful. I like the Squier better because it has a beautiful neck.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4803601448_d3cac65162_b.jpg

Just had a "real" guitar player over tonight to lay down some tracks for me. He went straight for my CVC over my other guitars after a little comparison of feel & tone. Had him use the Carvin for some of the more heavy rock-lead stuff, but the CVC and my MIM tracked amazingly on some Springsteen-esque music. Great twang and shimmer, intonation and action pretty much still spot on even after going to 10's without touching a setup yet.

He's buying a CVC next week.

I contend the number 1 appeal of the Squire is price. Any other factors are secondary.
Just my observation.

Does not mean it is bad or good, simply a matter of economics.

I contend the number 1 appeal of the Squire is price. Any other factors are secondary.
Just my observation.

Does not mean it is bad or good, simply a matter of economics.

+1. My thinking on this is, if the CV50 cost $700 rather than $300, then we might be having a slightly different conversation.

That's not a slam on the quality or sound of the CV50...I still say my CV sounds better than any Fender I've owned.

BUT....part of the appeal, a major part of the appeal, is that these things are so freakin' good at such a ridiculously low price.

Would people own 2 or 3 of these if they went for $700? I don't think many people would. Would they buy these over the Classic 50's? That's up to the player, but I feel like if they both retailed at the same price, Fender would get the bulk of the customer base because of the brand.

Again, not a slam on Fender or the Classic 50's...it is a fine guitar. Fender is just more visible.

Raise the price even more to even it up with the American standard (which many people believe the CV50 matches for quality) and I bet you that 99.9% of customers would choose the MIA standard over the Squier. MIA is what people associate with greatness, and quality, and craftsmanship.

It comes back to price, though. The CV50 (well, the entire CV lineup) earns its reputation. However, it got that reputation by being owned by a lot of people who wanted backups/firsts/seconds/what have you, and those people reported back their (for the most part) extremely positive experiences. Yes, on this board it can come across as hype, but there are many of us who have owned and do own MIA Fenders that went for well more than $900 new, and many of us have grown to prefer the Squier.

When it comes down to it, though, I had a couple of bad experiences with expensive Teles and I wanted to try them out again...but not for the kind of cash I was throwing around before. I hear a little about this Classic Vibe series and how experienced, talented players are loving it, so I try one out. It saves the Telecaster for me. I might buy an MIA at some point again, but this gives me everything I wanted out of a Tele and it was the right price.

Squier = standard of excellent value.
Fender = THE standard of excellence.

I won't read through all 13 pages, so pardon me if it's already been said. But, Made in China, Made in USA....same thing. The USA is owned by China, so buying into the Squier guitars is simply a way of slowly paying off the national debt.

I won't read through all 13 pages, so pardon me if it's already been said. But, Made in China, Made in USA....same thing. The USA is owned by China, so buying into the Squier guitars is simply a way of slowly paying off the national debt.


Haha, awesome variation of perspective!

I contend the number 1 appeal of the Squire is price. Any other factors are secondary.
Just my observation.

Does not mean it is bad or good, simply a matter of economics.


For some this may be true but it was not a consideration in my purchase and never has been..not even when buying my SX Thinline. I bought the SX becasue I wanted a Thinline Ash that had a modern radius with a modern six box saddle period..Fender doesn't off such a guitar in this configuration.

My 1st and only Squier purchase ever that came last week, wasn't even planned :shock: I grabbed the JazzMaster off the wall at a quick glance thinking it looked cool and I would use it to try out the new Amp that I came to purhcase. The Squier VM JazzMaster sold itself to me..not because of Money or Forum Hype or any other fable :wink: Truth be known..I think a great Number of recent Squier Purchases have come from people who like Chud posted above, had some guitar player come over and tried out his axe and was made a believer of this product..just like me more or less :shock:

Whats even more of a surprise for me is this...the JazzMaster is the ONLY guitar I own, that I won't be changing out Pickups or putting locking Tuners on. I think alot of Players simply like the CV line because it offers a Classic with some modern appointments..just like the VM line..this is a Huge selling point for many of us players. It there were not certain Modern appointments to this JazzMaster..I would not have bought it. So again..I think cost is a small factor of overall consideration when buying the CV or VM product..it's more of the Cherry on top after everything else. The quality of the new Squiers is already here and people are starting to notice quickly. The only thing to look for now, is the Squier line to expand with New offerings such as the new Jag and JazzMaster :cool:

+1. My thinking on this is, if the CV50 cost $700 rather than $300, then we might be having a slightly different conversation.

That's not a slam on the quality or sound of the CV50...I still say my CV sounds better than any Fender I've owned.

BUT....part of the appeal, a major part of the appeal, is that these things are so freakin' good at such a ridiculously low price.


Good post. One thing I don't understand though are all the CV comparisons to American Standards. They're such different guitars that I have a tough time comparing the two... so many of the components/specs are so different.

Plus, I can't stand by the CV hardware components. They're pretty junky, but like CIJ Fenders they can easily & very, very inexpensively be upgraded to be at least as good or better than MIA quality. I have less than $450 total into my CV50, including a boutique pickup, a Fender Esquire guard, Switchraft jack, custom control plate + upgraded pots & switch. And, this is before selling any of the original parts I've replaced. The thing is, I'll never sell this guitar now. It's fabulous & it's been rock steady for nearly 3 years of heavy playing, including gigging. Some don't like the neck profile on these, which would be a deal-breaker for me, but I love it. The fret work is fabulous.

I think you really nailed it with your comment about Squier being the standard of excellent value. That's true especially with the CV series, but a lot of the other models they're making now seem to be much improved. Not that they didn't make some great MIJ guitars going back to the 80's, but they've long been viewed as the red-headed stepchild and I think it's pretty clear that's unfair at this juncture.

The quality/value of Squier CV's now easily hold their own vs. Fenders in the same & at least slightly higher price range. And really, what's up with the notion that building in Mexico (in terms of craftsmanship, wages, working conditions, etc.) is really a significant upgrade from China? Bizarre.

What I don't agree with is the Fender = the standard of excellence. IMHO, they have killed themselves on the pricing front especially when I go to shops & notice a substantial number of QC issues with guitars in the $700- 1000 +/- range. Their price hikes in recent years don't make them excellent values or in some cases even excellent guitars. I've owned MIA's, MIM's & CIJ's & currently I only have one Fender CIJ (2004). Great guitar.

If I'm going to spend $1500- 2K on a guitar (and I have 3 times now), I'm never going to buy a new Fender. You can get a custom built guitar from so many different expert luthiers that it just doesn't make any sense to me to get an off the shelf Fender that I won't love everything about. It's much easier to have somebody build a guitar to your specifications, using quality parts & expert craftsmanship. That's not as much of a knock on Fender as it might sound, but they simply charge too much $ for what you get out of their guitars these days especially when compared to so many other options on the market. I'd argue that they think they're the standard of excellence, but instead to some extent rest on the laurels of the name on their headstocks.

Then again, I give them full credit for allowing Squier to come out with the CV line. That move made so much sense on so many levels at the time it was done. For me, it's hard to entirely separate FMIC from either Squier or Fender.

Good post. One thing I don't understand though are all the CV comparisons to American Standards. They're such different guitars that I have a tough time comparing the two... so many of the components/specs are so different.

Plus, I can't stand by the CV hardware components. They're pretty junky, but like CIJ Fenders they can easily & very, very inexpensively be upgraded to be at least as good or better than MIA quality. I have less than $450 total into my CV50, including a boutique pickup, a Fender Esquire guard, Switchraft jack, custom control plate + upgraded pots & switch. And, this is before selling any of the original parts I've replaced. The thing is, I'll never sell this guitar now. It's fabulous & it's been rock steady for nearly 3 years of heavy playing, including gigging. Some don't like the neck profile on these, which would be a deal-breaker for me, but I love it. The fret work is fabulous.

I think you really nailed it with your comment about Squier being the standard of excellent value. That's true especially with the CV series, but a lot of the other models they're making now seem to be much improved. Not that they didn't make some great MIJ guitars going back to the 80's, but they've long been viewed as the red-headed stepchild and I think it's pretty clear that's unfair at this juncture.

The quality/value of Squier CV's now easily hold their own vs. Fenders in the same & at least slightly higher price range. And really, what's up with the notion that building in Mexico (in terms of craftsmanship, wages, working conditions, etc.) is really a significant upgrade from China? Bizarre.

What I don't agree with is the Fender = the standard of excellence. IMHO, they have killed themselves on the pricing front especially when I go to shops & notice a substantial number of QC issues with guitars in the $700- 1000 +/- range. Their price hikes in recent years don't make them excellent values or in some cases even excellent guitars. I've owned MIA's, MIM's & CIJ's & currently I only have one Fender CIJ (2004). Great guitar.

If I'm going to spend $1500- 2K on a guitar (and I have 3 times now), I'm never going to buy a new Fender. You can get a custom built guitar from so many different expert luthiers that it just doesn't make any sense to me to get an off the shelf Fender that I won't love everything about. It's much easier to have somebody build a guitar to your specifications, using quality parts & expert craftsmanship. That's not as much of a knock on Fender as it might sound, but they simply charge too much $ for what you get out of their guitars these days especially when compared to so many other options on the market. I'd argue that they think they're the standard of excellence, but instead to some extent rest on the laurels of the name on their headstocks.

Then again, I give them full credit for allowing Squier to come out with the CV line. That move made so much sense on so many levels at the time it was done. For me, it's hard to entirely separate FMIC from either Squier or Fender.

Great Post :wink:

What I don't agree with is the Fender = the standard of excellence. IMHO, they have killed themselves on the pricing front especially when I go to shops & notice a substantial number of QC issues with guitars in the $700- 1000 +/- range. Their price hikes in recent years don't make them excellent values or in some cases even excellent guitars. I've owned MIA's, MIM's & CIJ's & currently I only have one Fender CIJ (2004). Great guitar.


I completely agree that Fender has got to get their act together. I'm pretty sure the OP said standard for FMIC, and in that case I'd still say MIA is still the standard. There are many more guitars out there that are better made, though.

I'm shopping MIA for my next guitar, since a part of me still wants an MIA after not owning one for a couple of years. I can''t find a Fender that really makes me feel comfortable with spending $1000, so I'll probably be looking into Logan or K-line or a different smaller luthier.

Of course, that could all go out the window if I find a Classic Player's Jazzmaster I really like :mrgreen: I, like many of the posters here, don't care at all if guitars are made in Mexico. I just really like Jazzys.

What I don't agree with is the Fender = the standard of excellence. IMHO, they have killed themselves on the pricing front especially when I go to shops & notice a substantial number of QC issues with guitars in the $700- 1000 +/- range.
That's what I found too. I looked at various (Fender) Strats up to $1000, and kept finding bad fretwork, dead spots on the neck, uneven sound quality from fret to fret, shrieky treble at a couple of frets on one or two strings, and so on. One of them had a pickguard that buzzed loudly on some notes!

The $230 Squier Standard Strat I eventually bought isn't perfect, but didn't have any of these problems to any detectable degree. I haven't even had to have it set up - I took it out of the box and found it eminently playable. Nice low action, no buzzes, everything felt right.

-Gnobuddy

That's what I found too. I looked at various (Fender) Strats up to $1000, and kept finding bad fretwork, dead spots on the neck, uneven sound quality from fret to fret, shrieky treble at a couple of frets on one or two strings, and so on. One of them had a pickguard that buzzed loudly on some notes!

The $230 Squier Standard Strat I eventually bought isn't perfect, but didn't have any of these problems to any detectable degree. I haven't even had to have it set up - I took it out of the box and found it eminently playable. Nice low action, no buzzes, everything felt right.

-Gnobuddy

What bull. Where? Where are all these bad US Fenders? I'm in guitar stores all the time. Fender (USA) has employees working on those guitars that have been working for Fender all the way back to the '50s.

You guys just look for the bad in the things you aren't ever going to buy anyway. There's no way you'd ever be so discerning with your Squiers.

Just unbelievable.

What bull. Where? Where are all these bad US Fenders? I'm in guitar stores all the time. Fender (USA) has employees working on those guitars that have been working for Fender all the way back to the '50s.

You guys just look for the bad in the things you aren't ever going to buy anyway. There's no way you'd ever be so discerning with your Squiers.

Just unbelievable.

its essentially beer goggles. reality gets distorted because people want to justify their choices as much as possible. like i'm really supposed to believe the majority of 'real' fenders have bad QC/fret issues/etc etc and somehow these CV's come out completely unscathed.

its essentially beer goggles. reality gets distorted because people want to justify their choices as much as possible. like i'm really supposed to believe the majority of 'real' fenders have bad QC/fret issues/etc etc and somehow these CV's come out completely unscathed.



Kinda sad that a somewhat civil debate comes down to this. Nobody said all Fenders suck, but I think they should be better for the $ they command now. Comparatively, they are not a very good value to a lot of other options out there.

Do I expect as much from a $300 Squier as I do a $1000/+ USA made Fender? Of course not... why the hell would I or anyone? I've already admitted I swap out all the cheap components in Squiers. They ain't perfect, but they're a damn good value in many cases.

I'm not trying convince anyone of anything here either, but why would anyone lie about the QC experiences I've seen in GC & dozens of smaller shops... to prop up Squier? I find that notion sad, but also laughable.

I don't expect everyone's choices to be the same as mine, but buying a Logan, K-Line, Kirn, Creston, Kelly, etc. T-style guitar over current production Fenders in the $1500- 2K range is a no brainer to me.

What bull. Where? Where are all these bad US Fenders? I'm in guitar stores all the time. Fender (USA) has employees working on those guitars that have been working for Fender all the way back to the '50s.

You guys just look for the bad in the things you aren't ever going to buy anyway. There's no way you'd ever be so discerning with your Squiers.

Just unbelievable.


There weren't as many bad fenders until the Internet came along.

The quality/value of Squier CV's now easily hold their own vs. Fenders in the same & at least slightly higher price range. And really, what's up with the notion that building in Mexico (in terms of craftsmanship, wages, working conditions, etc.) is really a significant upgrade from China? Bizarre.



It's not really that bizarre.. the Mexican factory is something like 150 miles from the American one, some of the MIM's use American parts and are simply assembled in Mexico, all of the MIM's share a lot of the same parts with the US models and the factory seems pretty closely supervised by Fender US. The Chinese manufacture is a totally different thing, using the local resources from halfway around the world, largely locally supervised and sometimes (if not often) subcontracted to other manufacturers.

I'm not saying the Chinese guitars are intrinsically inferior or anything, I'm not trying to get into a quality debate of which factories turn out better guitars (about as pointless an exercise as arguing politics imo).. just saying I can understand where people get their notions from regarding the geographic locations of these factories.

What bull. Where? Where are all these bad US Fenders? I'm in guitar stores all the time. Fender (USA) has employees working on those guitars that have been working for Fender all the way back to the '50s.You guys just look for the bad in the things you aren't ever going to buy anyway. There's no way you'd ever be so discerning with your Squiers.

Just unbelievable.



Good greif man...:rolleyes:

Lol if you were 20 in '55 you'd be around 76 now, let these guys retire already! :)

Good greif man...:rolleyes:

Abby Ybarra, Charlie Davis, Jose Serna, Roger Centeno, Herbie Gastelum...all senior Fender employees on the assembly line. Look it up.

There's people at Fender that have been there a very long time.

Lol if you were 20 in '55 you'd be around 76 now, let these guys retire already! :)

Looks like you guys have discovered the reason why Fender MIA has got more QC issues! And those tired old geezers are not longer able to build Guitars in speed they did into 70`s, so production has slowed down. To get same money, F have to raise prices for them drastically!!!:idea:

Just joking, i will gladly purchase MIAs, MIMs, MIJ/CIJs, MICs, CIIs etc. in future. But it depends solely of the actual guitars, not from the name on headstock. Which model, how is it to play, eventual modding possibilities and price will decide it for me in each case.:cool:

I've gotta agree with Oster. I too am in guitars stores all the time and have yet to find a bad MIA Fender. I have more guitars than I need so I'm not looking to purchase another unless it's something out of the ordinary, but if I do get another Fender, it will be a MIA.
I just can't see a product coming from where they produce inferior wallboard and mechanic tools, or toys painted with lead paint, producing a copy of a Fender guitar that sets the standard for quality.
All of my guitars get played at gigs and I don't need dead pickups or parts that have to be upgraded.

its essentially beer goggles. reality gets distorted because people want to justify their choices as much as possible. like i'm really supposed to believe the majority of 'real' fenders have bad QC/fret issues/etc etc and somehow these CV's come out completely unscathed.

+1

People (especially nowdays) appreciate good value for their money. And, for the Tele guys like us, a CV or CVC is a good Tele for the money. And, a better price/performance ratio than Fender has given us in a long time. But, it really has nothing to do with the US or Mex stuff, since they are in a different league - in materials and price. But, it's OK that Fender threw us some good stuff at a great price - that's as good for them as us. It builds brand loyalty at a time when there are hundreds of Tele variants out there now. They got better when they had to. And, we have some happy beneficiaries here.

There weren't as many bad fenders until the Internet came along.


Yeah, you're right, everyone still raves about the CBS era:roll:.

Some folks are getting pretty defensive based on some really exaggerated responses (nobody ever said the "majority" of Fenders have issues, but whatever) & other nonsense.

If you find that 10 out of 10 MIA's (by the way, are these the only "real Fenders"?) to be solid guitars & worthy buys, good for you. I don't begrudge anyone for getting what they want, but it's obvious some of our experiences vary or maybe we just like making up crap to ruffle your feathers.

Best example of a chaotic QC issues I noticed was with the Bajas. I played one when they first came out & loved it. Was gonna definitely get one when I had the $. Then the next half dozen I tried were horrible. Everything from missing/damaged hardware, terrible fretwork, very heavy weight (which isn't a big issue for me by itself), etc.

That's an $800 guitar now. There shouldn't be issues that consistently with them. The thing that sucks is that the good ones are really, really good. But, I was really turned off by how many bad ones I played.

You guys just look for the bad in the things you aren't ever going to buy anyway. There's no way you'd ever be so discerning with your Squiers.

Good to know you know what's really going on in everyone else's head, better than they know themselves. Thank heavens someone put you in charge of the universe!

-Gnobuddy

Why is it that facts, simple facts, seem to cause such dramatic responses?

Reality is that, as I mentioned earlier, the Squire is built to a price point.
With a few exceptions, this guitar is purchased because of the affordability.

The rare singular response that someone might be considering a top of the line
$2k Tele and decided on a Squire, because it was "better", has a different set of
criteria than most guitar buyers.

The Squire is a compromise purchase. Not a bad purchase, and not a statement of
good or bad quality for any particular person or use. But, the Squire is simply not to as high a standard as is MIM or MIA or Artist Series or Custom.

Three basic elements go into the making of a product:
Design
Materials
Workmanship

Somewhere in that list compromises are made to offer a guitar for a quarter of the price of its higher standard unit.

I try not to compromise. I have gone years without a guitar until I could afford what I wanted... but that's me. I don't finance anything I can do without.

I think we could all pretty well exhaust ourselves by trying to convince people our side is right and the other side has no idea what they're talking about...heck, the posting in this thread sure has dwindled down in the last few days.

I appreciate this debate and I like hearing about people's experiences with different products. Of course we are all really partial to our guitars...we wouldn't have bought them if they were crap! All the "rah-rah USA" people wouldn't buy a crap USA guitar just because it is USA made! Likewise, all the Squier folks wouldn't have turned down a USA guitar regardless of quality just because it is a Fender USA product!

I think we can all agree: Telecasters are the bomb. I think we can also say that there are many of us here who play for a living/play professionally that won't buy just any Telecaster, but have to buy the one that fits them the best. For some, that means the modern bridge with AlNiCo V pickups and medium frets. For others, it's ashtray bridge and AlNiCo III all the way. Even the casual player wants a guitar that feels great and sounds great to them.

All the time I've spent reading, lurking, and posting on this forum has taught me a lot about the people who post here. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of us would turn down a fantastic playing, fantastic sounding Tele because of something on the front or back of the headstock. That's not meant as a put-down to the folks who have commented and said they will only buy MIA, I'm sure all of you love playing as much as I do and as much as many of us do. I think if that is important for whatever reason, then don't discount it...you won't be happy with your Tele unless you're happy with everything about it. All I'm saying is that many of us, when faced with the terrible beauty of a kick-ass Telecaster, wouldn't turn it down based on headstock alone.

That's one thing that I really love about this board that sets it apart from TGP and other forums. Cork-sniffing is frowned upon in our world of bolt-on utilitarian awesomeness. I've seen threads devoted to MIA, MIM, MIC, MII, and MIK Telecasters of various brands, and I haven't seen one Tele in the lot of them that gets trashed on.

I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a guitar store, played a wall of Teles, and walked out because all of them felt great and I couldn't decide which one I liked more. I think I own the perfect Tele, for me, for right now. Things might change, I might change my style, I might find that one Tele I've got to have and my CV50 might take a bit of a backseat like my Casino has...but for right now it is everything I want out of a Tele. I'm not missing any feature at all. I'm not missing any tone at all.

And it's a Telecaster. Win.

it will be interesting to see of the new squires are still as playable in 10-15 years. I haven't played one but if there are great guitarists out there like you fella's saying they are great, I believe you. the "Standard of excellence" but? might have to go sample a couple.
I have a mate who owns an 80's *** squire Strat, although I have never gigged it, its a very nice guitar.
now my nephew's Squire, now about 2 years old is garbage, neck is like spagetti, will not stay in tune so I blocked the trem & thats helped a lot. he has another one exactly the same as his other one which he won in a raffle (along with a 15w squire amp) and it "is" exactly the same, a piece of junk.

1 step further, another mate of mine had a 97 USA std tele and it was a piece of krud too, I have never struck a USA guitar like it. he was an acoustic player & bought it to look cool on stage as the night progressed thats how he didnt notice it was a dog in the shop but he was fooled by the "made in USA" sticker.

In saying all this, every time I buy a fender now, I am fooled by the made in USA sticker. I buy one & gig it, end of story, I don't have time to muck around changing this & that, I'm a muso, not a guitar builder. I don't want to buy something, be fine with it, get to a gig & find out it squeals like a banshee, then either spending more money to fix it and my time.
where I live I cant walk into a guitar shop & sample several guitars, even the MIM fenders they have locked away & you just about have to pay a deposit if you want to test drive them. at the most, I have seen 2 USA guitars in the music shops around here at any one time, thats 4 music shops in a 200klm radius. if I order a US std or buy one off ebay, dont like it, I know I can sell it & get the same money....
just my 2cents

Squiers were made by SO many different factories..they are really not that related much at all....SOME of the NEW ones are great---some of the OLD ones were horrible..apparently SOME of the Old ones are great...depends on the factory, the year, I have seen some in the past that were just toys---This thread suffered, I think from people on too many different topics, that SEEMED to be on topic, but that were really not talking about the same thing. A few :
1. THESE new squiers are good
2. All squiers are good
3. All Mia's are good
4. SOME Mia's are good
5. Yea, America!
6. BOO, China
7. Squiers are better than Mia's
8. Squiers are good for the buck
9. All guitars are built to a price point

I'm sure you all could add a few more...........It just suffered from Ambiguity....for one thing....
These are just few I could remember

Here's and idea, instead of cat fighting over opinions and attempting in vain to convert one faction to the other side, why don't we all just play and enjoy our guitars?

Kudos to me for stating the obvious.

The Squier line is clearly a "Standard" of different things for different players. And it also varies depending on the particular model.

I own an Affinity, CV, & CVC. These are the only Tele's I have ever owned. The CV's are my baseline for a guitar. So this is my Standard. I've picked up and noodled on a '70's vintage tele and numerous MIM Standards. The MIM's are probably the fairest comparison and all were less desirable in the areas of fit/finish and fretwork to the CV's.

I long for a Tele with "Fender" on the headstock. My last name is Fender and I love the history and mystique of the brand. But for my skill set I can't personally justify spending 2x's as much or more as the CV's for what I consider minor incremental advances. I was ready to make the leap to an AVRI which I think could be more reasonably considered the "Standard of Excellence" for a Tele but I just couldn't reconcile the cost. I opted for the CVC. It works for me. Some actually consider the CVC or CV50 comparable to the AVRI in various ways. Some dismiss this as a ludicrous comparison. Some consider the comparison ONLY if modifications are considered like PUPs, switches, pots, bridge, saddles, etc.

The CV's are my Standard of Excellence for a Sub-$400 Telecaster. I'm happy I can get this level of quality at this price point. It's cool to hear from MIA owners that say their CV's compare favorably to their other instruments. This makes me like the CV more but I don't translate this to mean that Squier is the Standard of Excellence for Fender instruments.

If I'm going to spend $1500- 2K on a guitar (and I have 3 times now), I'm never going to buy a new Fender. You can get a custom built guitar from so many different expert luthiers that it just doesn't make any sense to me to get an off the shelf Fender that I won't love everything about. It's much easier to have somebody build a guitar to your specifications, using quality parts & expert craftsmanship. That's not as much of a knock on Fender as it might sound, but they simply charge too much $ for what you get out of their guitars these days especially when compared to so many other options on the market.

Well put, and I agree completely.

Calling a Squire the standard of Fender excellence, to me, is like calling a minute steak fine cuisine. In my opnion, the ONLY way you're getting more value from your Squire than you are from a MIA Standard is if you mod the heck out of it once you take possession, at which point it ceases to be the same guitar you bought - it becomes a cheap shell with high-end components.

As was pointed out in the section I've quoted, the same can be said of MIA models - my recent Deluxe acquisition is a perfect example. I tried MIA Standards, HWay 1, Specials and Deluxes against Squires and MIM's - I wasn't sufficiently impressed by the sound, fit, finish, and feel of the MIM's, Asians, or Hway1 that I would be convinced to pay $500 for one and put 200 - 300 dollars of upgrades on it to have it match the Am Special or Standard. I tried some Standards that were nice, and two that were let slip into the abyss by the incompetence of store owners. At the end of the day, I went with a Deluxe that I knew I would be upgrading, but I basically got it for a trade of stuff I didn't use and $200. If I had to pay the full price - $1350 plus tax locally - for the Deluxe, I probably would have just had a Logan, Forrest Lee or a Barn-buster built with the components I wanted in the first place.

I hope that doesn't come across as snobbery - I will be adding MIM Tele's to the collection, and plan to buy a Squire for my sons as their first teles (unless I can find nice used deals on MIMs), but I don't consider them, for one second, to be the standard of excellence.

Calling a Squire the standard of Fender excellence, to me, is like calling a minute steak fine cuisine. In my opnion, the ONLY way you're getting more value from your Squire than you are from a MIA Standard is if you mod the heck out of it once you take possession, at which point it ceases to be the same guitar you bought - it becomes a cheap shell with high-end components. Quote}


You've jumped the gun here Brother...the post heading reads "Is Squire Becoming... the key word here "IS".. :grin:

bynapkinart;3124350]I think we could all pretty well exhaust ourselves by trying to convince people our side is right and the other side has no idea what they're talking about...heck, the posting in this thread sure has dwindled down in the last few days.

I appreciate this debate and I like hearing about people's experiences with different products. Of course we are all really partial to our guitars...we wouldn't have bought them if they were crap! All the "rah-rah USA" people wouldn't buy a crap USA guitar just because it is USA made! Likewise, all the Squier folks wouldn't have turned down a USA guitar regardless of quality just because it is a Fender USA product!

I think we can all agree: Telecasters are the bomb. I think we can also say that there are many of us here who play for a living/play professionally that won't buy just any Telecaster, but have to buy the one that fits them the best. For some, that means the modern bridge with AlNiCo V pickups and medium frets. For others, it's ashtray bridge and AlNiCo III all the way. Even the casual player wants a guitar that feels great and sounds great to them.

All the time I've spent reading, lurking, and posting on this forum has taught me a lot about the people who post here. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of us would turn down a fantastic playing, fantastic sounding Tele because of something on the front or back of the headstock. That's not meant as a put-down to the folks who have commented and said they will only buy MIA, I'm sure all of you love playing as much as I do and as much as many of us do. I think if that is important for whatever reason, then don't discount it...you won't be happy with your Tele unless you're happy with everything about it. All I'm saying is that many of us, when faced with the terrible beauty of a kick-ass Telecaster, wouldn't turn it down based on headstock alone.

That's one thing that I really love about this board that sets it apart from TGP and other forums. Cork-sniffing is frowned upon in our world of bolt-on utilitarian awesomeness. I've seen threads devoted to MIA, MIM, MIC, MII, and MIK Telecasters of various brands, and I haven't seen one Tele in the lot of them that gets trashed on.

I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a guitar store, played a wall of Teles, and walked out because all of them felt great and I couldn't decide which one I liked more. I think I own the perfect Tele, for me, for right now. Things might change, I might change my style, I might find that one Tele I've got to have and my CV50 might take a bit of a backseat like my Casino has...but for right now it is everything I want out of a Tele. I'm not missing any feature at all. I'm not missing any tone at all.

And it's a Telecaster. Win.[/B]

Great Post...This thread wasn't intended for trashing others gear..but just to look more closely at the Fender Squier line and see exactly how they have worked their way back into the spotlight with rave reviews from players to player magazines...and of course, recently making a believer out of me :shock:
What I have found interesting in all these post, is that so many take the stand point that we as Squier owners are raving about this product to simply justify are purchase of an inexpensive guitar by comparison to the other Fender line and we are trying to make ourselves FEEL Goode :lol:. Is it not possible, that these guitars have simply sold themselves on their own merits :?:

This is what I was trying to focus on..the merits of the Squier line itself and how far it has come along in recent years :wink:

[/B]

.....the merits of the Squier line itself and how far it has come along in recent years :wink:

The CV's are the only Squiers I see people raving about. Have the Bullets and Affinities improved in recent years?

(nobody ever said the "majority" of Fenders have issues, but whatever)

The OP did, several times.

You've jumped the gun here Brother...the post heading reads "Is Squire Becoming... the key word here "IS".. :grin:


It might have been posed as a question but this thread clearly demonstrates that what one was hoping for was an attempt to preach to the choir and the contrary responses were neither expected nor welcomed.

Is it not possible, that these guitars have simply sold themselves on their own merits :?:

Quite possible. Also quite possible that they were bought to meet the purchasers' budgetary requirements. Or to allow the purchaser to have two guitars instead of one (lot of accumulators around here). It's also possible (and I know I'm treading on dangerous territory) that some of the Squier fans lack the skills or talent -- or experience -- to recognize the virtues of the higher price point guitars.

This being the internet, everyone posts as an expert -- whether they've been playing for a week or half a century, whether they gig for a living or struggle with 3 chords in their bedroom, whether they've spent any considerable time (more than "I played one at GC yesterday") with the guitars in question or they're just parroting what they've read online (because, face it, there is such a thing as Internet hype), whether they're posting in good faith or just trolling.

When I bought my first Fender (a used bargain at the equivalent of about $900 2011 dollars -- American Fenders were never inexpensive), friends with Harmony Rockets and Kays with floating pickups were all over me about how their guitars were just as good. I guess they were -- for them.

Quite possible. Also quite possible that they were bought to meet the purchasers' budgetary requirements. Or to allow the purchaser to have two guitars instead of one (lot of accumulators around here). It's also possible (and I know I'm treading on dangerous territory) that some of the Squier fans lack the skills or talent -- or experience -- to recognize the virtues of the higher price point guitars.

:shock: Ouch. I'll take that one in stride, though, I kind of see where you're coming from...but it does annoy me to see that regardless of my extensive experience people are still quick to lump Squier players into the "oh he/she doesn't know any better" pile. I promise you I know what I'm talking about :mrgreen:

When I bought my first Fender (a used bargain at the equivalent of about $900 2011 dollars -- American Fenders were never inexpensive), friends with Harmony Rockets and Kays with floating pickups were all over me about how their guitars were just as good. I guess they were -- for them.

I dunno, seen Gibson recently? I guess its because I spend a lot of time around Gibson, Heritage, and PRS fans, but I always look at Fender as the bargain, low-cost alternative brand to many American brands. The MIA Fender standard stuff is only about $300 more expensive than the Hwy1 stuff...and still manages to be $800-$1000 cheaper than the Gibson and PRS standards in their lineups. Likewise the gap between Fender's standard stuff and cost-cutting product (at least in the MIA lineup) is significantly smaller than the gap between Gibson cheapo and Gibson standard.

no argument from me, although I have two 52 RI's and love them to death, ( 88 and 89 ) one being my go to axe I play 100% of the time


but

I do also have a CV Tele, it's great!

I also just purchased ( non fender talk here) a Breedlove made in Korea Acoustic..I am in awe of how nice it plays and sounds, the craftsmanship is I think ,2nd to nobody.

So, those overseas guitar plants have been set up quite nicely thank you very much...

I have a local friend who has a Custom Shop Sparkle Buck Tele, it rates, as far as my opinion goes, as being the absolute worst telecaster on the planet for playability. The neck is like a plank , I am thinking they never actually finished it !

Hello China and Korea I guess !

:shock: Ouch. I'll take that one in stride, though, I kind of see where you're coming from...but it does annoy me to see that regardless of my extensive experience people are still quick to lump Squier players into the "oh he/she doesn't know any better" pile. I promise you I know what I'm talking about :mrgreen:

"... some of the Squier fans..." is not "... all of the Squier fans..." Nor does it refer to anyone in particular. But it would be naive to think that everyone who loves their Squier (or their MIA) and has posted about it here has the hands or the ears or the experience (or even two of those three) to judge the "standard of excellence" of a guitar to any extent beyond how excellent they feel about it.


I dunno, seen Gibson recently? I guess its because I spend a lot of time around Gibson, Heritage, and PRS fans, but I always look at Fender as the bargain, low-cost alternative brand to many American brands. The MIA Fender standard stuff is only about $300 more expensive than the Hwy1 stuff...and still manages to be $800-$1000 cheaper than the Gibson and PRS standards in their lineups. Likewise the gap between Fender's standard stuff and cost-cutting product (at least in the MIA lineup) is significantly smaller than the gap between Gibson cheapo and Gibson standard.

I was more thinking of the people who seem to think that time stands still -- that because they picked up an American Tele brand new for $450 in 1989, $900 today is double/overpriced. Adjusted for inflation, American made Fenders appear to have hovered right around the same price point for 60 years.

Compared to Gibson carved tops, Fender was cheap. But this "everyman" character (who hovers in the background of every discussion of mass-produced bolt-ons) bought his electric guitars and amps at Sears and, for the most part (IIRC), considered them a great value -- even the Silvertone cabinets that melted when wet. :lol:.

Had Fender not ramped up Squier guitars in the 80's - esp in response to the lower cost, high quality MIJ imports - it would have had to do so eventually when, not just Korean and other Indonesian instruments were already becoming established as well made instruments, but especially when Made In China instruments began coming over.

Any of us can start a musical instrument company: SX, Xaviere, Dillion, Crafter, Jay Turser, Blueridge, etc. Well, Fender would not stand by and concede the low-cost instrument market to all comers and competitors. Fender has a rational plan for competing in that market: the synergy is impressive, too.

I believe that the quality of modern Squiers is mostly a function of the quality specs that Fender contracts for. That is to say, the instruments could be as good as they want them to be.

Rather than cannibalize their USA sales, they specify certain features, components and quality. If they're failing at all, it's in their marketing of their higher priced lines, whether they are MIM or USA: some posts in this long thread (and others) is evidence that many buyers can't discern the difference between a MIC and a Made in USA guitar. Maybe Fender doesn't want to beat home too much what the differences are because it might require emphasizing too much how they build the Squiers to lower spec's.

I am not a snob and like every Tele I try out in GC (I own a Squier) but I also check something about every one I pick up: I site down the neck (looking over the bridge) and I can tell how much labor went into the neck and its finishing. USA necks look like they were laser leveled (and are gorgeous), MIM look pretty good, too - most have noticeably more relief (could be intentional to help up-sell) - and the CV's look like every other import that doesn't have a PLEK in their factory: pretty lumpy.

Is a CV a great guitar? Sure. Do they require (for most players) upgrades and possible setups? Yes.

I think the MIM's (Fender Standards) might actually be the best value; the quality standard - in my opinion - is still a Made in USA Fender. And, I'm sure Fender knows this, too. But they leave it for you to decide.

Guitar building is not voodoo: it's applied engineering and quality manufacturing processes. To the degree that "art" is involved, I'm sure Fender has lots of talented people working there who know the art side as well.

I am glad that they provide Squiers and so many crazily-configured Tele's and Strat's for us - Squier or Fender labeled. And, like most of us, the unspoken understanding we have with Fender is: buy one of their lower-priced imports and upgrade it how you want. We all win.

Greg

Calling a Squire the standard of Fender excellence, to me, is like calling a minute steak fine cuisine. In my opnion, the ONLY way you're getting more value from your Squire than you are from a MIA Standard is if you mod the heck out of it once you take possession, at which point it ceases to be the same guitar you bought - it becomes a cheap shell with high-end components. Quote}


You've jumped the gun here Brother...the post heading reads "Is Squire Becoming... the key word here "IS".. :grin:

My bad.:cool:

Not having owned or played a Squire, I cannot give an opinion. However, I do have a USA made Tele, with some aftermarket upgrades that I purchased from an independant custom shop. It is beautiful, with some serious hardware upgrades and plays awesome. As far as anything made in China, I have a real problem there. I'll pay way more for a guitar or amp if it's made here at home. That's the way it is, and I make no apologies for it.

When I bought my James Burton Standard in 2006 - we also got a Squire Affinity for my step daughter. Both in Candy Apple Red - but different in almost every respect. The Squier has a terrible neck, the strings have worn through the (plastic?) nut (and it's not been played much at all), pick-ups are weak sounding and tinny. I'm no great expert, just some observations. I bought both sight unseen - the JB is an excellent guitar - bought for $1799 Australian dollars - the Squier was thrown in for $300 AUD - bringing it back into New Zealand I claimed a 15% rebate from the tax at the Australian border making the Squier basically a freebie. Can't really complain.

The CV's are the only Squiers I see people raving about. Have the Bullets and Affinities improved in recent years?

Musicmatty opened this thread by raving about a Vintage Modified Jazzmaster, which i too own. It feels & looks as good as any CV, of which i also own 2.
Nobody has meant to lift Bullets and Affinities up to standard of excellence, but my Standard Jazz Bass is as good as my MIM Precision, though after some modding. I owned a Antigua MIA 1976 Jazz Bass before, and this Squier JB is now as good as that was. I have full respect to MIAs too, naturally.
They are all Squiers. Asian guitars are improving.

I think this whole debate is stupid because whatever people buy, they are most likely to stick up for. I mean I'm sure there are bad guitars made everywhere but its just something we have to deal with.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think this whole debate is stupid because whatever people buy, they are most likely to stick up for. I mean I'm sure there are bad guitars made everywhere but its just something we have to deal with.

I wholeheartedly agree. People do stick up for the guitars they own. Human nature, I guess.
And although I own a CVC and love it, I've played some in different guitar shops that were complete dogs. And conversely, I've played some 52RI's the were just stellar and some which were horrible.
I think it is a crap shoot to a degree. No matter what is on the headstock, it is either a good example of the line, or it is a bad example, for whatever reason. The particular guitar either speaks to you or it doesn't. You bond with it or you don't.

This thread is wearing me out.

This thread should die peacefully. It's silly.

I'm sure you guys in the US had the same argument about cars..

mm? a Honda civic?..a Datsun 240Z?..good on gas reasonable price..
or a mustang 64..... or a cobra... a caddillac.. heavy on style ,heavy on gas?...

how's Detroit going these days?...

in Oz we grew up with "***" guitars 70's 80's... Squiers then were seen as cheap copies.... of real guitars... seems they are still trying to be "real" fenders,,
to hold a real US fender/Gibson back then was a holy grail moment... they were never shiny and new, more well played and sounded/felt AWESOME compared to what was coming out of asia...
it'd take a good squier to break that spell now, I guess..

I didn't get a real US Strat until nearly 2000.... a clapton era black/lace pu '89... landed in my lap . didn't go looking... I had it at home for 5 yrs before I even bought it... still played acoustics mainly..

I seriously doubt you'd find a squier off the rack that'd come near a good US strat/tele...
or even my '89...
and then I'd line up the "83's against any squire as well....

the last "new" Fender Tele I grabbed off the top row hook at the local music store to check out recently.... had india on the headstock... some were from indonesia....mmmmm?..
I carefully put it back for fear of dropping it .... and having a hassle with the salesman...

is that where fender is going? I thought... flood the market with cheap guitars in every emerging country.... (who couldn't afford to buy one).. and ship them off to those who could...

just like cars...

at least US fenders use the same amount of electricity as the eastern ones..
. so, it's not an ongoing fuel issue... unless you count the fuel miles your eastern guitar burned up in the cargo ships/planes, getting the materials across then getting it back to you.

. it's just the upfront cost..that's different.. and the new and shiny factor,,

with the amount of good US built guitars on the market in the US, new and used.(all brands). I couldn't imagine living there and not owning one with pride... and flashing the headstock at any occasion...

I wholeheartedly agree. People do stick up for the guitars they own. Human nature, I guess.
And although I own a CVC and love it, I've played some in different guitar shops that were complete dogs. And conversely, I've played some 52RI's the were just stellar and some which were horrible.
I think it is a crap shoot to a degree. No matter what is on the headstock, it is either a good example of the line, or it is a bad example, for whatever reason. The particular guitar either speaks to you or it doesn't. You bond with it or you don't.

This thread is wearing me out.

:rolleyes:

Squiers were made by SO many different factories..they are really not that related much at all....SOME of the NEW ones are great---some of the OLD ones were horrible..apparently SOME of the Old ones are great...depends on the factory, the year, I have seen some in the past that were just toys---This thread suffered, I think from people on too many different topics, that SEEMED to be on topic, but that were really not talking about the same thing. A few :
1. THESE new squiers are good
2. All squiers are good
3. All Mia's are good
4. SOME Mia's are good
5. Yea, America!
6. BOO, China
7. Squiers are better than Mia's
8. Squiers are good for the buck
9. All guitars are built to a price point

I'm sure you all could add a few more...........It just suffered from Ambiguity....for one thing....
These are just few I could remember

I'd add "Yea India!" my Vintage Modified Teles are sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!:mrgreen:

I'm with ya

Yeah...i some how missed this one back there...:oops:
I think it's cause this thread has so many pages!
I've been scanning through some of them today and came across this...
Wow...wish i would've seen your reply last week before i started ranting!!!
LOL!!!!:lol:

Thanks for understanding my silliness fungusyoung! :mrgreen:

I wholeheartedly agree. People do stick up for the guitars they own. Human nature, I guess.

Agreed!

And since there are more people owning "cheap" guitars than expensive ones, the answer to the OP's question is given.

And although I own a CVC and love it, I've played some in different guitar shops that were complete dogs. And conversely, I've played some 52RI's the were just stellar and some which were horrible.

There are lots of guitars hanging on the walls in shops that are set up poorly - if at all - we've all experienced that.

But I refuse to believe that there are a big difference in quality between different guitars of the same model. Telecasters are known to be very even in quality (as opposed to Les Pauls), and the quality today is more even than anytime before due to modern production methods.

And if all of us guys have the good examples, who's got all the bad ones?:wink:

Squier of the 90s had nowhere to go but up. Although I have a couple now, Squiers over the past decade or so, were dreadful - and I don't mean to insult anyone or their purchases, but that's just my opinion. Kudos Fender for (finally) straightening this division out. Long overdue.

its essentially beer goggles. reality gets distorted because people want to justify their choices as much as possible. like i'm really supposed to believe the majority of 'real' fenders have bad QC/fret issues/etc etc and somehow these CV's come out completely unscathed.

You're not being fair. A lot of guys:

1) Don't have the money right now to buy a USA model new, and no matter how we tell them "buy USA or MIM used, cheap" some people just can't do it. They'd rather have another root canal than do serious horse trading because that is just not who they are;

2) Are caught up in the same excitement that AV52 owners and Baja owners and Road Worn owners engage in. Which starts off strong and wanes the longer the model is out there on the hooks. In time the honeymoon stuff will wear down but it has to start high, or why buy the guitar at all?

3) Have had a fine older USA stolen from them, or Mom gave it away while they were in Vietnam, or they had to pawn it for cash for bail money for their dumbas$ kid brother or something. Guitars presumably worth $$$$ today. These guys want a second bite of the apple; they want a dream of redemption;

4) Finally, not that long ago 80% of guitar guys laughed out loud when Squier was mentioned. This has been a steep uphill battle and a lot of guys have been bucking the percentages and picking the Squier Dark Horse and they are conditioned for tough resistance. They DO go overboard but I think they're entitled, for now, to go overboard. They have the burden of persuasion and so far they're still on the short end. I suspect FMIC is gonna always cut them off at the knees but that is business for ya.

Regardless of where any Fender guitar is made, they all need to share the same basic qualitys. Having excelent Fret work, straight necks and a proper cut nut for precise tuning. All these guitars should be able to be tuned properly and easily hold tune. They all don't need to share expensive finishes or have Pearl inlays or nice binding or any of the other added extras..but they do need to share the Bare essentials listed above when carrying the famed Fender Logo on the guitar.

Fender once again is showing their symbol of excelence in the Squier CV and VM line with excelent fret work and nuts that for a change..they are actually properly cut..this is one less trip back to the shop to have the damn thing filed down for proper tuning.

Im not saying every CV or VM guitar is going to be spot on..but what I am saying is this..straight necks..excelent fret work and properly cut nuts are getting the added attention on the assembly line, that seemed to be absent for a long long time. This is what myself and Im sure many other players expect from a Fender labled guitar..one that is vary playable and reliable regardless of where it's made for the economics involved that can make if affordable to put in most players hands. :cool:

You're not being fair. A lot of guys:

2) Are caught up in the same excitement that AV52 owners and Baja owners and Road Worn owners engage in. Which starts off strong and wanes the longer the model is out there on the hooks. In time the honeymoon stuff will wear down but it has to start high, or why buy the guitar at all?


I thought that might've been the case when I went for weeks without seeing a CV thread pop up here (because that was all the rage about a year ago), so I ran a poll (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/261467-still-like-your-cv-teles.html) and about 70% of people still enjoyed their CV a lot. Either that's one heck of a long honeymoon period (most of the responders had owned theirs for over a year) or they are actually legitimately great guitars.

Not everyone loved them, but 129 out of 183 owners who responded still thought they were great. I guess that's got to count for something.

And if all of us guys have the good examples, who's got all the bad ones?:wink:
Me, I've got loads of 'em. :sad:

Me, I've got loads of 'em. :sad:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

You're not being fair. A lot of guys:

1) Don't have the money right now to buy a USA model new, and no matter how we tell them "buy USA or MIM used, cheap" some people just can't do it. They'd rather have another root canal than do serious horse trading because that is just not who they are;

2) Are caught up in the same excitement that AV52 owners and Baja owners and Road Worn owners engage in. Which starts off strong and wanes the longer the model is out there on the hooks. In time the honeymoon stuff will wear down but it has to start high, or why buy the guitar at all?

3) Have had a fine older USA stolen from them, or Mom gave it away while they were in Vietnam, or they had to pawn it for cash for bail money for their dumbas$ kid brother or something. Guitars presumably worth $$$$ today. These guys want a second bite of the apple; they want a dream of redemption;

4) Finally, not that long ago 80% of guitar guys laughed out loud when Squier was mentioned. This has been a steep uphill battle and a lot of guys have been bucking the percentages and picking the Squier Dark Horse and they are conditioned for tough resistance. They DO go overboard but I think they're entitled, for now, to go overboard. They have the burden of persuasion and so far they're still on the short end. I suspect FMIC is gonna always cut them off at the knees but that is business for ya.

And at the end of the day...they ALL WORK .....I got 4 or 5 American guitars...and around the house I play my son's $20 thrift store SYNSONIC-it still sounds pretty good...where does it say you have to play THE BEST all the time.:lol:

I agree with the original post.
Look what happened to the British Motorcycle industry when the Japanese first introduced their cheaper and in most cases better replicas.

IIRC Japan did not introduce "replicas". They introduced sanitary, soulless units for "everyman". They started everytime, did not leak oil . They also did not handle worth a darn and rusted over night. Not that it is a bad thing.

I remember Yamaha YDS2 , Honda Scrambler and 305 and Dream and 750/4s and Suzuki Savages and Kawasaki Triples etc . The only replica I can recall was a British inspired 650cc pig from I believe Yamaha. Green and white as I recall and dangerous handling and braking.

The British motorcycle industry did not die because the Japanese built a "better" bike.. but because they built in cleanliness and marketed them with Hollywood stars and clean cut So Cal boy/girl next door , massive advertising. Marketing sold Japanese bikes.

The British just did not want to lower their quality (poor electrics and leaking oil was largely a myth as it was with Brit cars, but even if they did the looks, handling and braking were worth the minor inconvenience) and lose their character. They built bikes for bikers.

I have owned about 50 bikes, I believe 4 were Japanese and briefly owned.

Back to the Squire... price and marketing.

IIRC Japan did not introduce "replicas". They introduced sanitary, soulless units for "everyman". They started everytime, did not leak oil . They also did not handle worth a darn and rusted over night. Not that it is a bad thing.

I remember Yamaha YDS2 , Honda Scrambler and 305 and Dream and 750/4s and Suzuki Savages and Kawasaki Triples etc . The only replica I can recall was a British inspired 650cc pig from I believe Yamaha. Green and white as I recall and dangerous handling and braking.

The British motorcycle industry did not die because the Japanese built a "better" bike.. but because they built in cleanliness and marketed them with Hollywood stars and clean cut So Cal boy/girl next door , massive advertising. Marketing sold Japanese bikes.

The British just did not want to lower their quality (poor electrics and leaking oil was largely a myth as it was with Brit cars, but even if they did the looks, handling and braking were worth the minor inconvenience) and lose their character. They built bikes for bikers.

I have owned about 50 bikes, I believe 4 were Japanese and briefly owned.

Back to the Squire... price and marketing.


Man..thats a bunch of BS..either your in denial or just wanna pump some added gas into this thread :cool:

Man..thats a bunch of BS..either your in denial or just wanna pump some added gas into this thread :cool:

Yeah Jeff I identify with Matty on this one.
As my cousin Chris would say "If it's British it's ****tish."
MG's, Austin-Healey's, Nortons, Triumph you can have 'em all Jeff.
If somebody gave me one - I'd sell it immediately.
We've had enough misery in this Family with Jaguars alone to be totally turned off by the notion and yet we tried...and tried...and tried.

Japanese Bikes caught up and surpassed British Bikes in less than 20 years.

They may not ever be a Shovelhead but Japanese Bikes are reliable and if anyone denies that they're delusional.
Even I can't deny it and I'm delusional on a moment to moment basis depending on the subject at hand. :mrgreen:

At this point the Horse has gotten so beaten and has been dead for about oh 12 pages. Give the poor dead horse a chance to wither away peacefully..

I agree with the original post.
Look what happened to the British Motorcycle industry when the Japanese first introduced their cheaper and in most cases better replicas.

why is everyone comparing japanese production to chinese production? just because they're both asian??? utter ridiculousness. you're referring to two completely different cultures/technological skill levels and yet somehow are trying to use this argument like it would actually make sense to someone?

have you ever seen a chinese manufactured car before??? absolute pieces of garbage.

IIRC Japan did not introduce "replicas". They introduced sanitary, soulless units for "everyman". They started everytime, did not leak oil . They also did not handle worth a darn and rusted over night. Not that it is a bad thing.

I remember Yamaha YDS2 , Honda Scrambler and 305 and Dream and 750/4s and Suzuki Savages and Kawasaki Triples etc . The only replica I can recall was a British inspired 650cc pig from I believe Yamaha. Green and white as I recall and dangerous handling and braking.

The British motorcycle industry did not die because the Japanese built a "better" bike.. but because they built in cleanliness and marketed them with Hollywood stars and clean cut So Cal boy/girl next door , massive advertising. Marketing sold Japanese bikes.

The British just did not want to lower their quality (poor electrics and leaking oil was largely a myth as it was with Brit cars, but even if they did the looks, handling and braking were worth the minor inconvenience) and lose their character. They built bikes for bikers.

I have owned about 50 bikes, I believe 4 were Japanese and briefly owned.

Back to the Squire... price and marketing.
I agree with a lot of this but on British bikes poor electrics were a given and they leaked everywhere from showroom to grave .How do I know? I worked at a motorcycle shop in the middish 60's.The Japanese bikes were a breath of fresh air and well made with electrics that actually worked .They even started easily .Lucas electrics were standing joke .Hondas electrics were gems .The one thing the Japanese bikes didnt do was last long ,at least not the sporty versions .About 10.000 and out .Cams running in cylinder head with no bearings etc .Who cared ,the guys who bought them wanted to go fast and look good .They didnt want a bike to last long .life was too short.The British motorcycle industry was lazy ,complacent,and living on past glory .It made piles of **** and called them diamonds .I dunno where all these great craftsman were who purported to be making them .They were probably on strike as usual.:grin:

Couldnt agree more Martin broke my toe kickin my Bonnie cause it wouldnt start!

Lucas Electronics "The Prince of Darkness"....hahahahahahahha

Holly cow; 15 pages for Squire Vs. Fender?

Heck, in the end if anyone finds a guitar they like AND actually plays it- thats enough reason to celebrate! Who cares what name is printed on the headstock.

It ain't what you got, but how you use it.

Holly cow; 15 pages for Squire Vs. Fender?

It ain't what you got, but how you use it.


That's what SHE said.....

When I started playing Guitar in the mid 70s you had those bad Made in Japan guitars for low money. But look at those MIJ guitars 10 years later, really good guitars. Japan needs only 10 years to learn how to build really good guitars. Sometimes better than Fender & Co.
And now China starts the same story.
In 20 years everybody try to find some old Made in China Guitars at ebay and pay a lot of money for those guitars:lol:

And in the end Fender electrics were made to be a (affordable / cheap) everymans' guitar for the working guy, not the superstars of the day but working guitarists ad that's what they did. Squires are the 21st century version of that and they do it well. I we didn't know where they came from perhaps we'd be happier?

Gary

When I started playing Guitar in the mid 70s you had those bad Made in Japan guitars for low money. But look at those MIJ guitars 10 years later, really good guitars. Japan needs only 10 years to learn how to build really good guitars. Sometimes better than Fender & Co.
And now China starts the same story.
In 20 years everybody try to find some old Made in China Guitars at ebay and pay a lot of money for those guitars:lol:

"Pre-war Squiers?"

Might be kind of nice. Now if we could only get a Republican in office, they're good at starting wars for no reason! (I kid, I kid, it's a joke, don't kill me)

And in the end Fender electrics were made to be a (affordable / cheap) everymans' guitar for the working guy, not the superstars of the day but working guitarists ad that's what they did. Squires are the 21st century version of that and they do it well. I we didn't know where they came from perhaps we'd be happier?

Gary

I posted something like this earlier but...

The "everyman" guitar that Fender sold was a lot more expensive than a Squier and not at all "cheap."

A 1950 Esquire listed for $149.50. Adjusted for inflation, that's $1,366.11 today.

A Broadcaster was $189.50 -- $1,731.63 today.

This was before big-box/internet discounting.

Although they offered student/"low cost" models in the 60s, a '65 Mustang ran about $200 new -- more than 2011 $1000.

Today's $350 guitar would have sold for $39 in 1950, $50 in 1965. Fender left that market to Sears and Montgomery Ward -- the "everyman" retailers.

1950 Fender Price List (http://community-2.webtv.net/z56bela...ama/page2.html)

US Bureau of Labor Statistics Inflation Calculator (http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm)

And in the end Fender electrics were made to be a (affordable / cheap) everymans' guitar for the working guy, not the superstars of the day but working guitarists ad that's what they did. Squires are the 21st century version of that and they do it well. I we didn't know where they came from perhaps we'd be happier?

Gary


A lot of truth in this statement. It's very doubtful to me, that a seasoned player could pick up a CV or VM guitar and dismis it as junk and declare that this guitar is poorly crafted and most importantly, has a non playable neck and frets. Certainly it's possible to find some bad ones in the mix..but this is true all thru the Fender line.

The Great Debate rages on :eek:

I just got my 2nd CV 50 to mod with P90. Seller said it was just at 8lb, but feels more like 10 to me (I don't have a scale). I'm not keeping it and my stock of the CV line has gone down.

Short answer to the question, NO.

My other CV 50 is 7.5 and other than the pickup I thought it the cats meow!

Seems like Fender should have all their guitars made in China. They do it better and for much less.

If their American workers want to keep their jobs and move to China. They'll have to accept a $500 per month salary, which puts you in the middle-class there. I had a luxury furnished apartment in downtown Shanghai 3 years ago for $200 per month (in a smaller town in Anqing Province it was $50).

In fact, nothing at all should be made in the USA anymore. Not cost effective whatsoever. Imagine what the Chinese could do with top-notch parts?

I hope Fender wakes up and shifts all their operations to Asia.

Seems like Fender should have all their guitars made in China. They do it better and for much less.

If their American workers want to keep their jobs and move to China. They'll have to accept a $500 per month salary, which puts you in the middle-class there. I had a luxury furnished apartment in downtown Shanghai 3 years ago for $200 per month (in a smaller town in Anqing Province it was $50).

In fact, nothing at all should be made in the USA anymore. Not cost effective whatsoever. Imagine what the Chinese could do with top-notch parts?

I hope Fender wakes up and shifts all their operations to Asia.


I don't know if I would go so far to say that I hope we loose all our American jobs to the Chinese :shock::lol: Im sure theres a happy medium somewhere..perhaps the CS and Signature models could be Exlusive to American made and all others relegated elsewhere for economic reasons :idea:

Why did you buy a Fender? Some folks might walk into a shop and play all the guitars and just like the Fenders more, but most shoppers have at least heard the name and know of the reputation. We see our favorite rock heros playing them. We are aware of the Fender mystique.

But consider this (all numbers completely made up, but probably good estimates):

Total population: 100%
People who like music: 95%
People who go out and see live music: 60%
People who play a musical instrument: 30%
People who SERIOUSLY play a musical instrument: 10%
People who PROFESSIONALLY play a musical instrument: 1% (at most)

Now, of that ONE PERCENT, consider this:
People who play guitar: 50%
People who play electric guitar: 25%
People who play Fender style electrics: 15%
People who play Fender style electrics and know/care enough to customize the instrument: 5%

So companies like Fender, Glendale, All Parts, Seymour Duncan, and on and on, are all compete for the 0.05 percent of the total population that appreciates a customized instrument.

Where am I going with all of this? Well, Charmin toilet paper competes for 100% of the population. We are all daily consumers of their product. When was the last time you bought custom shop toilet paper?

It makes strong business sense for FMIC to make the Squier line phenomenal. The Custom Shop guitars SUPPORT THE MYSTIQUE THAT SELLS THE SQUIRE GUITARS. For every lawyer/doctor/rockstar that comes in and buys a Custom Shop, TEN weekend warriors buy a guitar they can afford and can use to make money. And for every one of those professionals, TEN MORE kids come in with their parents and buy a Squier to learn on.

So, from a business standpoint, the "standard of excellence" had better be with the lower cost instruments, because that's where the competition is. When you start paying automobile-type sums for a musical instrument, it's a given that the quality will be top notch, from any manufacturer. It's down there in the $100-$400 range that the heat is on and the money is made.

Excellent post. I agree 100%.

We all have our personal experiences and anecdotes...
I worked on British cars exclusively from '64-'72 professionally, as an amateur a few years before and after that date. I belive I have owned around 50 Brit cars.. 4 Years at a Rolls, Bentley, Jag, MG, Austin ,Aston, Morris etc dealership... 14 lines of cars 12 techs..
I was a tech for 1 1/2 years, Asst Serv Mgr 1 1/2 years and Parts Mgr 1 year...
and yes I left and went to a Japanese dealership then factory rep for a Japaense company for 6 years until I went with 2 well known German manufactures and one Swedish co.. as a factory field rep and management training manager...and still owned Brit cars...


Next door to our BMC dealership was a Norton Honda Dealership, later BMW,Ducati and Guzzi and some other stuff..
I was familiar with the staff and the products. I was riding a Norton in those days, plus an NSU SuperMax. The Japanese stuff was tidy clean and sterile. The Brit and Italian stuff had style and soul..the German stuff had a quiet elegance and solidity.

One of the BMC techs and I founded the Monterey Bay European Motorcycle Club in 1982-3. He is known for his photos in a famous repair manual on import cars.. he was the SU carb guru.. James H Brewer RIP. He rode a Trimuph for years, then a Ducati 900ss when we founded the club ,and at that time I had a few Morinis, BMW's and Guzzi LeMans , also a Benelli... too many to remember them all.


Your experiences may differ with mine. Brit stuff was considered bad by those who were unfamiliar with them or unfamiliar or incompetent but still insisted in working on them. We made our living off of cars worked on by others. Moreso than service or repair.

As to Brit vs Japanese bikes... totally different philosophy. I appreciate both but would still buy British over Japanese.


Back to Squires.... yes all guitars are built to a price point which equates to a level of quality.
Squires are built to a lower price point ergo lower quality is a given.

There is room for all bikes and all guitars.

As we used to say in the car bizz...
"there's an axx for every seat."

Yeah Jeff I identify with Matty on this one.
As my cousin Chris would say "If it's British it's ****tish."
MG's, Austin-Healey's, Nortons, Triumph you can have 'em all Jeff.
If somebody gave me one - I'd sell it immediately.
We've had enough misery in this Family with Jaguars alone to be totally turned off by the notion and yet we tried...and tried...and tried.

Japanese Bikes caught up and surpassed British Bikes in less than 20 years.

They may not ever be a Shovelhead but Japanese Bikes are reliable and if anyone denies that they're delusional.
Even I can't deny it and I'm delusional on a moment to moment basis depending on the subject at hand. :mrgreen:




...but i make myself guilty for more of it. My Honda CB350 i had back then in late 60s had personality.:razz: Most British i saw bikes leaked oil, ad we`re very noisy but i admit, they still had some archaic, brutal looks, mojo and style for them.:twisted:
Now many Squier look very much like Fender, and, guess what, feel like F`s to play, even tone is close to same class!!! History is repeating itself, maybe?:cool:

Seems like Fender should have all their guitars made in China. They do it better and for much less.

If their American workers want to keep their jobs and move to China. They'll have to accept a $500 per month salary, which puts you in the middle-class there. I had a luxury furnished apartment in downtown Shanghai 3 years ago for $200 per month (in a smaller town in Anqing Province it was $50).

In fact, nothing at all should be made in the USA anymore. Not cost effective whatsoever. Imagine what the Chinese could do with top-notch parts?

I hope Fender wakes up and shifts all their operations to Asia.

I worry about this too. MAybe part of the reason I went into IT was the thinking that they couldn't outsource that type of job. Yes that was awhile ago and I was young :).
These cheap imports will have a very high price to pay. The socio-economic price for our cheap imports will be staggering. I'm basically a libertarian conservative but there is no way we can have the society with its benefits and costs while having all the jobs for our products being made overseas. The trade defecit isnt disney dollars until we let it become that. Either way its the same dollars we have in our pockets.

This thread has some major potential to go politically postal! I have to disagree respectfully, of course, b/c I am trying to avoid as much made in China as possible. I have seen a number of CVs and the like & while they are quite nice "on the surface" I don't see them as ever competing with say an MIA Tele or even an MIM. I hope this does not offend anyone but I will avoid MIC at all costs if possible - amps or guitars. I have nothing against the Chinese people personally but I don't want to see all of our businesses go somewhere just because they will work cheaper - it's kinda sad really - sorry - just my opinion.

Didnt this thread die?

I won't buy a guitar that's made in China regardless of the quality or low price/perceived value. I'll gladly spend an extra $1000 or more for a guitar made in the U.S.A. If I could avoid other Chinese products I would, but that is getting almost impossible to do these days. At least when buying cars, motorcycles, guitars and amps I can still easily choose how I spend my money.

I'd love to buy made in US guitars, but I'm not rich. I can think of a bunch of ways to spend that extra $700...I love my CV 60s Strat!

Didnt this thread die?

Should have been left unborn.

Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender?

Apparently! :razz:

http://i53.tinypic.com/oivj1c.jpg

^^^^^^ The headstock says Fender not Squier...

Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender?

Apparently! :razz:

http://i53.tinypic.com/oivj1c.jpg

:razz:....."That right there is funny...I don't care who you are":lol:


BUahahahahaha!:lol:

^^^^^^ The headstock says Fender not Squier...

And your point is?

Why doesn't fender just merge the classic vibe series into its own? What I mean to say is, shouldn't they put a fender logo on the headstock and make their reputation on lower-end models better? The Squier logo on the headstock is becoming less and less of a shame thing.

I doubt that anyone would disagree with me that the cvc is loads better than an MIM standard tele, in fact many (not I) would say it's better than the am. standards.

The decision by squier to produce a classic vibe series is one of the best moves by a guitar manufacturer in recent memory. Fender needs to do something to prove they still wears the pants in the Fender-Squier relationship.

Is a squier skimmington comming?

I played a MIM Strat for the better part of eight years. It cost me $600 in 2001 (or thereabouts) when Musicians Friend was still brick and mortar. I'd played squier strats in high school that felt and sounded rather crappy. (This was the late 90's.)

But last year I got my hands on a Squier Tele name-too-long w/ P-90s, and fell in love.

The neck isn't as good as the MIM strat's, but that's it. It's a better guitar IMO in every way.

Frankly, in the hands of a talented player, a decent Squier will sound just as good as a USA model. And it's far easier to replace if damaged or stolen.

I love my Squier Bullet Strat. After I spent more than I paid for to mod it with PAFs, a black pickgaurd, 3 way switch, 2 full size pots, a new output jack, and a new bridge, I took all of that out and replaced it with the original stuff. I should have left it how it was when I bought it, the neck pickup sounds like Hendrix's Wind Cries Mary and has an amazing blues tone. I don't care for the bridge with much distortion, but I can get some cool 60s Who tones with it. And the original bridge wasn't really that bad, I just didn't know how to set it up right. I wanted to do Hendrix dives with it, and I thought that the stock one would only bend about 2 notes because that's how it came. I've never had to set up a Strat, so I didn't know how to. I do need to replace the neck though, it's very hard to play on and I hate rosewood fretboards.

I actually have come to love the squires over the years and I've had ones built in Japan, Mexico and China. All have been solid easy to play instruments. For the price, the quality is excellent and the experience and quality is consistent. Which is why I love Fender products.

I currently have one with a CV Neck on a Affinity body with upgraded Seymour Duncan pickups and its a great Tele.

That said, I still love my MIA Tele the best both for tone and feel. While I can appreciate the Squiers and really enjoy playing them they don't have the same lust factor for me that the MIAs do.

i cant speak of the newer squier guitars, but i have an 03 squier strat, the neck wasnt great and the pickups were a bit lackluster, so i swapped the neck and the pickups and now its great. i spent about 200 for the guitar and once you add the cost of the new parts, its was still cheaper than if i bought a new fender.

I have to say, maybe they might not be as good as a CS Fender, but then again what are those? $3 grand? To me, I'm not gonna gig with anything in that price point. It's STUPID to even think of doing so, because if I drop $3K on a guitar, I'm gonna freak if it gets dinged up. It won't leave the house, and for spending $3K on a guitar that never leaves the house, that's a damn waste of money in my book.

And in my opinion, a lot of the MIM Strats and Teles I've played have sucked, unless they're upwards of $700 or more. Even the Road Worn '72 Tele Deluxe I played last week had some rough fret edges. In honesty, I've played more MIM Fenders with poor fretwork than I have of any of the Squiers I've owned or played (and this includes my new $119 Bullet Tele).

I like lower-end guitars because for the price of a high-end American-made product, I can find 3 at least of an imported product of similar quality, and if they get banged up, so what? It doesn't break my heart. And if the electronics suck, it's easy enough to replace them and wind up with a damn good guitar that should cost about $800-900 for less than $400, sometimes, hell, even less than $300.

So, with that said, I'd pick a CV Tele or VM Tele, or, once my mods are done, even my Bullet Tele over a MIM Tele, just because of the feel and quality control.

i have a cv 50's and if it looks as good as a us tele and sounds as good .. how come a us is so much more expensive ..(dearer to make in us understood} are you paying for the name . or are the materials used far superior .. my cv sounds just the same as my mates us tele (if not better} and th cv looks gorgeous , with the flamed tinted neck and vintage tuners . it seems like three or four times the cost is an awful lot just to pay for the kudos of a us badge . in a blind test you'd be hard pressed . to spot the diffence . i reckon .

by the way yeah i had a mex and the cv wipes the floor with it , in every department.

When they stop with the hideous plastic truss rod insert and do the neck right I'll consider it.

No offense.

I can't stand those plastic bushings.

i have a cv 50's and if it looks as good as a us tele and sounds as good .. how come a us is so much more expensive ..(dearer to make in us understood} are you paying for the name . or are the materials used far superior .. my cv sounds just the same as my mates us tele (if not better} and th cv looks gorgeous , with the flamed tinted neck and vintage tuners . it seems like three or four times the cost is an awful lot just to pay for the kudos of a us badge . in a blind test you'd be hard pressed . to spot the diffence . i reckon .

I think wages are soaring in China to about $40 a week, up from .57 cents per hour 10 years ago.

The CV50 is a great guitar. My only quibble is thick finish. If they could a satin finish on the back of the neck, it would be perfect.

I have a CV and one of the new Modern Player Teles (OK let's face it, a Squier with a Fender decal) The CV is SWEET - only cost £39 less than the "Fender" (which I also love). Boundaries seem to be disappearing. Off the subject slightly, I have a Washburn 12 string acoustic. "Made in China" proudly displayed in the sound hole. This guitar plays and sounds so beautifully I will never part with it. It cost (new) £220 (about $320 dollars?)

"Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender?"

No, the Custom Shop is the standard of excellence within Fender.

"Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender?"

No, the Custom Shop is the standard of excellence within Fender.


No, Fender Japan is the best. At least when it comes to build quality.
Hardware can be replaced, if needed.:mrgreen:

My Squier Tele Custom II P90 is just as fun to play as Old Growth Redwood 60th Anniversary Tele-bration Tele.:mrgreen:
Prices? About 250 and 17.500 in USA. I am not, and will not be a logo snob.:cool:

Edit: 2 pics, Squier J Mascis Jazzmaster has been my favorite since i got it 7 weeks ago.

I'll say again. The Custom Shop is the standard of excellence within Fender.

The Squier range is cheaper because they use cheaper wood and cheaper hardware, so no matter how you dress it up a Squier will never be in the same league as anything out of the CS.

If you were to say a Mexican Standard is hard to tell apart from an American Standard I would tend to agree

I love guitarists' inability in general to be able to say;

"Wow, this is a very nice instrument for the price I paid for it."

That simply is not enough, no! We have to strut around waving our mighty axe around like some giant, six stringed phallus, proclaiming it better than a master built model or something else that is massively more expensive!

Skintight Jesus, i get a feeling you have religious attitude toward guitar brands...a logo in the headstock guarantees absolutely nothing. Excellent craftmanship is found around the whole world.

Skintight Jesus, i get a feeling you have religious attitude toward guitar brands...a logo in the headstock guarantees absolutely nothing. Excellent craftmanship is found around the whole world.

Well that's a pretty big judgement call to make, considering you've known me for all of about 5 posts.

I agree that a name on a headstock guarantees nothing. Which is why musicians the world over spend so much time trying out hundreds of different guitars out before they find 'the special one'.

I have not once made a derisory comment regarding the craftsmanship that goes into Squier, but the simple fact of the matter is they use cheaper wood and cheaper hardware, leading to a cheaper instrument in general.

I had some time to kill the other day, and wandered in to my local G.C.

They had one of those new Squire Jaguars....I had been thinking that I might look into one of those to add to the collection, someday....so I picked it up.

Darn thing was unplayable. The action was about 1/2" high at the 14th fret....it felt light and generally cheap. (My comments do not come from a China bashing perspective...I own a Hagstrom, made in China, that plays and sounds wonderful).

I won't be getting one of those Squire Jaguars.

If that is the new standard of excellence...then I am really, really happy that I am fortunate enough to own a Fender American Strat from about 2008....which is a really GREAT guitar....as well as several others which will go un-mentioned for the purpose of this quote.

Oh...and, I am not a gear snob....the amp I use most of the time is my Mustang III solid state modeler.....(and, I have choices, there, too.) I like it for its ease of use and versatility.

I had some time to kill the other day, and wandered in to my local G.C.

They had one of those new Squire Jaguars....I had been thinking that I might look into one of those to add to the collection, someday....so I picked it up.

Darn thing was unplayable. The action was about 1/2" high at the 14th fret....it felt light and generally cheap. (My comments do not come from a China bashing perspective...I own a Hagstrom, made in China, that plays and sounds wonderful).

I won't be getting one of those Squire Jaguars.

If that is the new standard of excellence...then I am really, really happy that I am fortunate enough to own a Fender American Strat from about 2008....which is a really GREAT guitar....as well as several others which will go un-mentioned for the purpose of this quote.

Oh...and, I am not a gear snob....the amp I use most of the time is my Mustang III solid state modeler.....(and, I have choices, there, too.) I like it for its ease of use and versatility.


Ever heard of a thing called setup? I can inform you that guitar strings can be lowered, truss rod adjusted, nut can be cut to right string height, pickups raised or lowered after need....that kind of things.:mrgreen:
With good setup, i am sure that a Squier Jaguar is a delight to play!:cool:

Of course, your comment can very well be trolling...
Btw, you like heavy guitars? Then you should never get any real 50`s Strat or Tele.:mrgreen:

Of course, your comment can very well be trolling...

I love how someone who posts a viewpoint contrary to your own is automatically suspected of trolling.

If Squire is the new standard, then I am glad I discovered G&L.

I love how someone who posts a viewpoint contrary to your own is automatically suspected of trolling.


Enough with this kind of discussion, it`s meaningless. Let`s be friends again, OK?

Enough with this kind of discussion, it`s meaningless. Let`s be friends again, OK?

Okay. OGR BFF's!

Ever heard of a thing called setup? ...blah...blah...

REALLY? "setup".....nope....never heard of it :rolleyes:

But, the term "standard of excellence", to me, would mean that at least a minimum amount of effort was put into it, at the factory, to assure at least a resemblance of "playability".

I like all kinds of guitars...some are heavy, some are light. That Jaguar, from Squire, just felt "cheap"...beyond its low price level.

I've got no problem with Squire....one of my favorite artists, Chuck Prophet, plays one...his has probably been "setup" tho (whatever that is...:rolleyes:)

And...'cmon...."troll"....is that the "best" you've got? When you have no real argument...call me a "troll"....Gee....I'm going to go over and sit in the corner and pout, now. :lol:

I may have done some of that setup stuff, when I built this:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc467/kctoddfan/Partscaster/2422489190074750541lMKltV_fs.jpg

:shock:

And I did a WAY better job than the "new standard of excellence" from that Squire Jaguar.

I may have done some of that setup stuff, when I built this:

:shock:

And I did a WAY better job than the "new standard of excellence" from that Squire Jaguar.

****! That looks awesome! Quite a high action, I bet it's awesome for slide guitar/delta blues!?

zzzzzzzz..........

****! That looks awesome! Quite a high action, I bet it's awesome for slide guitar/delta blues!?

Good eye....those pics were taken immediately upon completion. The action WAS high...very high. I had to take the neck back off, do a bit of sanding to get things to sit well in the pocket,...bought a fret leveling tool, read Mr. Kirn's instructions on leveling. Bought a fret crowning file and brought her in at better than Fender spec for string height. Also, had to set pickup height, starting with instructions from Bill Lawrence, on how to adjust his pickups.

Is that the stuff they call "setup"? :confused:

Let's see YOUR build......:?:

I built a house made of Lego once, that's about it.... Though it was probably put together better than anything from Squier.

I built a house made of Lego once, that's about it.... Though it was probably put together better than anything from Squier.
:mrgreen:

I know you were just kidding around, but on this thread, that is exactly the sort of comment that fans the flames and provokes another fifty indignant posts.

I have come across Squire branded instruments that felt and played and sounded cheap.

I've also come across Squire instruments that felt great and played and sounded great.

And yes, I have come across some $230 Squire 'Strats that played and sounded better than some $500 and $1000 Fender 'Strats.

And I have little doubt that there are some Fender instruments that at least look better than anything with a Squire label - FMIC has to do *something* to get people to pay that much more for a guitar, and usually looks are the thing that will reel a person in. As an example, early sunburst Les Paul guitars were made with exactly the same woods as the gold top versions, but because figured maple under a translucent sunburst finish looks much better than opaque gold paint, the sunburst versions are worth much more than the functionally identical gold tops. If it looks better, people will pay more for it.

Traditionally, FMIC has made Squires with thinner bodies and narrower necks than Fenders. This is done deliberately to make them feel cheaper and less comfortable in the hands of normal sized adults. That's how FMIC encourages people to spend more money for instruments with "Fender" on the headstock instead of "Squier". It's the same approach used by auto companies, who often intentionally make their smaller cars louder, less attractive, and less comfortable than the bigger models with higher profit margins.

There are exceptions to that rule about thin and skinny Squire guitars, though, and there are some Squires that have the same body and neck dimensions as Fenders. Why, I don't know. Perhaps they were designed to be sold as Fenders, and FMIC changed their minds after the design had been frozen, and sold them as Squire's instead.

Personally, I'm quite happy with my $230 cherry sunburst "Squire Standard Stratocaster" (not the Affinity Series Standard Stratocaster, which I did not like at all). I'm also quite happy with my similarly priced Squire Deluxe Active Jazz Bass V (bass guitar). Both instruments are very playable with very nice necks, and both have great tone.

The Squire Standard Stratocaster model I own is one of those exceptions I mentioned above, with a nice thick body and a 1 11/16" nut width, instead of the 1 5/8" nut width that a lot of Squiers have. As far as size and weight go, it feels exactly like a good Fender-branded 'Strat.

I have never touched a Fender-branded 5 string Jazz Bass, so I don't know if it has exactly the same dimensions as my Squire branded version. But I can say that the Squire has generous neck width and body size, and does not feel small or light at all. Rather the reverse - like most 5-string bass guitars, it feels massive and heavy.

If Fender ever makes a six-string guitar with at least a 1 3/4" nut width, I might consider ponying up the cash for the "F" label. As it is, my Squire 'Strat has the same skinny and uncomfortable little 1 11/16" nut width as all the Fender guitars, so there is no point in paying more for an F-branded guitar. I might as well be uncomfortable with a less expensive Squier. :mrgreen:

-Gnobuddy

I'll tell you a secret. Many people argue on Indonesia or china. The key is not the place, it's the Serial Number. Look carefully, it starts with Either S or C. This means two factories, and different quality control. S stands for Samick, C stands for Cort. Corts are well made and stable, even the affinity series, usually feature a 3-4 piece body, (3 on my affinity bass) Samick is a POS to be pollite. If you'd ever seen a Samick and a Cort, you'll see the difference anyway. Cort has a good quality control (over all) And only god knows about Samicks. Loose frets (even on standard models) bad wiring, etc. Ope your eyes and spread the word! BTW, this is the key of wide levels of satisfaction or Unsatisfaction!

I have a Grandson. He is almost two. When he comes over he has to checkout "Papa's" Guitars. The one he seems to like the most is an early 80's USA Strat. So I bought him a Squier (FYI that is the way it is spelled). His Squier is identical in looks to mine in everyway. He will not go near the Squier. He goes right for the MIA one everytime. I don't understand how he knows but he knows the difference. When people on this thread say the new Squier's rival the USA and MIJ Guitars I say bull.
Just ask any two year old.

I have come across Squire branded instruments that felt and played and sounded cheap.

I've also come across Squire instruments that felt great and played and sounded great.

And yes, I have come across some $230 Squire 'Strats that played and sounded better than some $500 and $1000 Fender 'Strats.


I respect views that are presented this way. They resonate with me; based on my experience I can easily see another player coming away with this set of experiences.

What make the initial Thread Title preposterous is the Squier should be the Standard of anything. They're not standard. The range of quality from one contractor to the next is obvious and it is great. Variation, radical variation is their mantle.

Saying Squier is more consistent than Fender is bizarre. Saying Squier is the Standard of Excellence at FMIC (when these plants are not even a permanent part of FMIC) is like saying Tim Tebow is the Standard of Excellence in the NFL. If he's so excellent, how did the struggling Buffalo Bills manage to lay such a thumping on him?

If you want to be the Standard, first you genuinely have to have some permanent connection to the tribe. Then, then you must be consistently great. Not just this model here, maybe that one over there.

If FMIC, and the plant where the CVs are made, agree to disagree and parts ways some day soon, then what level of Quality will Squier have? Goodness Sakes, it is just a label they put on a guitar made by contractors. How do you bank on this?

No, Fender Japan is the best. At least when it comes to build quality.
Hardware can be replaced, if needed.:mrgreen:

My Squier Tele Custom II P90 is just as fun to play as Old Growth Redwood 60th Anniversary Tele-bration Tele.:mrgreen:
Prices? About 250 and 1.750 in USA. I am not, and will not be a logo snob.:cool:

Edit: 2 pics, Squier J Mascis Jazzmaster has been my favorite since i got it 7 weeks ago.


Sorry, i had one zero too much for OG Tele`s price!:oops:

............

What make the initial Thread Title preposterous is the Squier should be the Standard of anything. They're not standard. The range of quality from one contractor to the next is obvious and it is great. ........

Yep, Squier has been made in pretty much every far-east country and the quality variations has been all over the map.

One Series from one sub-contractor does not make the line excellent.

bad bridge pickup...dead. rest of tele is perfect...nice neck and fretwork...sending it back

"bad bridge pickup...dead. rest of tele is perfect...nice neck and fretwork...sending it back"

You are sending back an otherwise perfect guitar because of a bad pickup? To my mind the electronics of a guitar is only about 20% of it's value. It's the wood and assembly that defines the tone. You can always change pickups you can't change the wood. It would probably cost less to fix a nearly "perfect" instrument than to ship it.
Maybe that is why manufacturers have to go to china for cheap labor. If everyone sends back instruments for relatively minor problems yeah then they have to make up costs elsewhere.
BTW until everyone does doubleblind instrument comparisons judging only by feel and sound all opinions are inherently biased beyond any reasonable hint of objectivity.

....<<edit>> If everyone sends back instruments for relatively minor problems yeah then they have to make up costs elsewhere.

WOW...what ever happened to "manufacture a quality product" ???

As a consumer, you can bet that if I buy something that has a problem, I am going to want the manufacturer to TAKE CARE OF IT. It was a decision made by the manufacturer to NOT have a local service center that could take care of these "minor" problems and instead, require the instrument be shipped somewhere for repair....NOT the consumer. Since we are specifically discussing SQUIER... there are hundreds of other instruments available to replace the defective instrument....and I bet many of those have wood of a quality equal to the one that passed thru "quality control" with a dead pickup.

You got Chinese Fenders now and Squiers been made in Japan, Mexico, Indonesia, and China, so why expect any kind of continuity?

But then again, I got a mutt and he's a pretty good dog...

That's the real beauty of a Fender, they bolt together. You can work on them, replace crap with better quality crap... get good enough at it and build yourself a NICE one... I never leave nothin' alone. Squier is a springboard not a bastion of excellence.

My sons squire strat is fine. I play it occasionally but it's not to the standard of my USA telecasters with rough fret edges etc, still ok to play. Much better than no guitar

I am sure this has already been said...ummm thats malarky..end of story..I am out and will not reply any further..as a respnse to the op

What I don't get about the CV series of Squiers is that how a Tele made of Pine can weigh over 9 lbs.? Is it 7 lbs. of Wood and 2 plus pounds of Poly?

most of you know,and respect Ron Kirn.Why don't you all ask him for his take on CS guitars
you might just be surprised!

No.

My Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster= a Mercedes E Class
My Fender Standard Telecaster= a Mercedes C class
A Squire guitar=A Hyundai.

There are some good Hyundais out there. But, no matter what it will still be a Hyundai.
There are some great Squires out there. But, again it will still be a Squire.

My Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster= a Mercedes E Class
My Fender Standard Telecaster= a Mercedes C class
A Squire guitar=A Hyundai.

There are some good Hyundais out there. But, no matter what it will still be a Hyundai.
There are some great Squires out there. But, again it will still be a Squire.

Likening a Fender to a Mercedes is an insult to Fender's.
Likening a Fender to a Squier is pretty fair. (a Squire was a Knight's shield and armour bearer).

My Am Spec Tele is no better finished (or better sounding) than my CV50.

My new AVRI '57 Strat was poorly finished (chipped paint around screw holes on back plate, loose tone knob and wood work under the pickguard that must have been cut out with an axe). It sounded great though.

By contrast my Squier CV50 Tele is perfection in terms of finish with all internal areas smooth and no faults anywhere else (and believe me i've looked). The sound is also great (but different).

I notice it was "My Fender, My Fender, A Squier..." so are you talking from experience or just joining the ranks of the ignorant dissenters who have paid too much for hardly anything extra?

so are you talking from experience or just joining the ranks of the ignorant dissenters who have paid too much for hardly anything extra?

Haha.

"one must light the fuse and STAND WELL CLEAR!"

:lol:

We've all seen the guitars damaged by airlines on the news lately so I bought my Squire cvc because it played well and was inexpensive, and I could change the things I thought could be improved without much difficulty. I could play this one without worrying about damage to my real 62 custom. The first stop was to a quality Luther for fret level and pro setup.. it surprised the luthier that he didn't have too much work to do to it right out of the box which attests to some quality that even he didn't expect. Secondly, the pickups and the cheap pots and switches came out and new quality electronics went in. I put Fralin Blues Special hybrids in their...not what most people would spend on a Chinese guitar...but hey it fills my needs. Now this guitar is no American made Fender, but the guy sitting on the front row doesn't give a crap...he wants a good show. I have 379 in the guitar, 120 in fret work and setup, 60 in the pots and oak switch and wiring,and 180 in the pickups now that's about 740 as far as I can figure...I could have gotten a good American tele for that...but this one is mine and it plays the way I like it now....it is my custom setup the way I like it and I hadn't found an American that fit me right without just as much tweaking so the way I see it I save some dough by starting with the cvc and if it gets caught in a baggage door belonging to Delta airlines, I'll be upset but I will be happy with the fact that it wasn't my original 62.....and I an transplant the pickups into another donor and go again. These guitars fill a huge market in one way or another and get people playing..are they CS QUALITY? NO
but they are a great platform for me to become my own CS

I live in Canada, my main guitar is a Godin Solidac though not exactly shaped like the tele, it's easy to see when played that this guitar was inspired by the teles from the fifties. Though IMHO my solidac is so much more than any tele or strat! It has active picups and can be set to deliver sounds from any genre or style.

I did though, want a MIA tele so bad at times I could taste it but would have needed to wait till I could afford one. I thought, for now, I will be making due with a CV. Is that good enough? The CV I mean? WQell after playing it, and having to confess that it is perfectly on par with it's MIA original... YESSS!!! SO MUCH SO THAT after playing the knock off, I might not even bother purchasing another one MIA.

It all sums up for me in that for musch much MUCH less moola, I get a rig that lets me deliver every bit of the snap twang and tone I discovered while learning to play country licks I saw other guys playing on You-tube with a fender tele, the CV does this as well as any MIA built I've ever picked up.

So If i ever do buy one (i payed 80 bucks for my 2010 CV) and put out the 800-1100 or 1700 bucks for one, it will be because I love American Made product too and will have enough cash on hand to warrant buying this for myself, spoiling me, and oh yeah I'll probably have struck it rich or received a hefty inheritance!

I live in Canada, my main guitar is a Godin Solidac though not exactly shaped like the tele, it's easy to see when played that this guitar was inspired by the teles from the fifties. Though IMHO my solidac is so much more than any tele or strat! It has active picups and can be set to deliver sounds from any genre or style.

I did though, want a MIA tele so bad at times I could taste it but would have needed to wait till I could afford one. I thought, for now, I will be making due with a CV. Is that good enough? The CV I mean? WQell after playing it, and having to confess that it is perfectly on par with it's MIA original... YESSS!!! SO MUCH SO THAT after playing the knock off, I might not even bother purchasing another one MIA.

It all sums up for me in that for musch much MUCH less moola, I get a rig that lets me deliver every bit of the snap twang and tone I discovered while learning to play country licks I saw other guys playing on You-tube with a fender tele, the CV does this as well as any MIA built I've ever picked up.

So If i ever do buy one (i payed 80 bucks for my 2010 CV) and put out the 800-1100 or 1700 bucks for one, it will be because I love American Made product too and will have enough cash on hand to warrant buying this for myself, spoiling me, and oh yeah I'll probably have struck it rich or received a hefty inheritance!

We've all seen the guitars damaged by airlines on the news lately so I bought my Squire cvc because it played well and was inexpensive, and I could change the things I thought could be improved without much difficulty. I could play this one without worrying about damage to my real 62 custom. The first stop was to a quality Luther for fret level and pro setup.. it surprised the luthier that he didn't have too much work to do to it right out of the box which attests to some quality that even he didn't expect. Secondly, the pickups and the cheap pots and switches came out and new quality electronics went in. I put Fralin Blues Special hybrids in their...not what most people would spend on a Chinese guitar...but hey it fills my needs. Now this guitar is no American made Fender, but the guy sitting on the front row doesn't give a crap...he wants a good show. I have 379 in the guitar, 120 in fret work and setup, 60 in the pots and oak switch and wiring,and 180 in the pickups now that's about 740 as far as I can figure...I could have gotten a good American tele for that...but this one is mine and it plays the way I like it now....it is my custom setup the way I like it and I hadn't found an American that fit me right without just as much tweaking so the way I see it I save some dough by starting with the cvc and if it gets caught in a baggage door belonging to Delta airlines, I'll be upset but I will be happy with the fact that it wasn't my original 62.....and I an transplant the pickups into another donor and go again. These guitars fill a huge market in one way or another and get people playing..are they CS QUALITY? NO
but they are a great platform for me to become my own CS


Why swap the Tonerider type pickups at all?:shock: Did you heard them through before swap? I think they are excellent!:mrgreen:
I have a Old Growth and Baja to compare with. Generally, CVC stock pups have tone in that level! But you must have a good amp with some bass response to hear CVC right, i have that.:cool:
But i have not heard & played Fralins, so i am maybe wrong.:wink:

As for topic, Squier CV`s and VM`s are very good guitars. There is no need to argue if they are better than MIA - MIJ - MIM Fenders, they are worthwhile choices in their own right!:cool:

most of you know,and respect Ron Kirn.Why don't you all ask him for his take on CS guitars
you might just be surprised!

Not to say I agree or disagree with any or all of Ron's opinions, but I will point out Ron is a direct competitor to Fender's Custom Shop.

..... ignorant dissenters who have paid too much for hardly anything extra?

So anyone who doesn't agree CV's are nearly as good as anything made is ignorant?

The last time I compared Teles in the store.

'52 Reissue.....$1600
.
.
MIM Guitar Center FSR BSB.......$499
.
.
.
.
.
CVC Squier.......$379


The MIM FSR was closer to the 52 than the Squier was to the MIM. From what I played the extra $120 got a lot more than "hardly anything extra".

Squier CVs are what they are and that's a well built and finished good sounding and playing guitar. I own three of them including both my basses. Do I prefer them to Fenders? Yeah I do prefer paying a few hundred to a thousand dollars less for an instrument that can be very easily and inexpensively modified to meet MY needs and is very close to the same quality of the more expensive Fender and better than some of the others.

I've owned a dozen or more MIA Fender guitars and basses over the years and frankly I can't find much if any difference in those over the current Squier CVs and in some instances the Squiers are somewhat better. They may not be everyone's cup of tea but they're still a quality instrument and very much worth what they sell for.

What I find most amusing is that most of the knocks or put downs about them around here come from guys who don't own one just like the fellow who posted above about HIS "Mercedes" Fenders versus ANY "Hyundai" Squier. Some say they wouldn't be caught dead with one yet thousands of us buy them and play them professionally. So who really has the better story to tell and more credibility hmmm! :roll:

Just sayin'.

Squier CVs are what they are and that's a well built and finished good sounding and playing guitar............................................ .................................................. ......they're still a quality instrument and very much worth what they sell for.

What I find most amusing is that most of the knocks or put downs about them around here come from guys who don't own one ........ So who really has the better story to tell and more credibility hmmm! :roll:

Just sayin'.

Someone who played the guitar and bought it has no more credibility than someone who played it and didn't buy it.


Look at the title of this thread "Is Squier becoming the Standard of Excelence within Fender".

WHAT COMPANY IN THE WORLD WOULD SELL PRODUCTS WHERE THE LOWEST PRICED MODELS ARE THE BEST?????????????????

WHAT COMPANY IN THE WORLD WOULD SELL PRODUCTS WHERE THE LOWEST PRICED MODELS ARE THE BEST?????????????????

Gibson? :)

...squier and cv..bang for the buck...

China factory workers make about $1 per hour...that translates into great deals for us.

About a year ago I decided that I really wanted a Tele. I was at one time a regular gigging musician but these days I have a decent day job and mostly I do home recording and only occasional jamming and gigging with friends. I have a 1989 MIA strat reissue, a couple of PRS, a vintage Guild semi hollow body, a resonator and a boutique acoustic guitar. I was prepared to spend four figures on a Tele and tried all of the models I could get my hands on. But I ended up buying a Squier CV thinline because it worked for me on several levels (the bridge tones on a lot of them were too ice-pick, and the U-necks on the '69 and '72 thinlines were too bulky for my hands). I am still kind of getting over hanging a Squier on my wall with those other high end guitars, but the truth is that it plays, sounds, and looks great, and it is light as a feather. I wouldn't say that Squier overall has passed all Fender makes in quality...I thought the Squier was certainly better than the Blacktops and the Modern Players. But then again, I had the wherewithal to buy anything right up close to a CS Tele and in the end I chose the Squier. They are making dang good guitars and they are a great value.

China factory workers make about $1 per hour...that translates into great deals for us.

Here in lies the problem. Lotsa Love for your fellow Man. I don't understand how anyone could even make a statement like that...

Here in lies the problem. Lotsa Love for your fellow Man. I don't understand how anyone could even make a statement like that...

Because to say it any other way would violate the rules of the board and be considered "political". Draw your own conclusions. The disparity in labor rates are the reason Squiers are so cheap for the quality. However, one U.S. dollar MAY be worth $10 of "buying power" in China.....I was just stating the facts, and not making a value judgement.

I'm gonna go with the old adage... "You get what you pay for". Squier is great for what it is. But its not intended to be top of the line... Thats why fender puts their name directly on their products and only in the fine print on Squiers