Is there any way to improve the tuning experience of the Hipshot B/G bending system?

I just got my Tele situated with both the B and G bender levers and all set up. I put on a brand new Hipshot bridge with it, and new Schaller locking tuners.

However, when I play it, and I'm absolutely just figuring out what I'm doing and am terrible at them, it seems like the tuning drifts a bit. Not just the bending strings but the others as well, which makes no sense to me. They are brand new strings, but they've been on a couple of weeks, so they should be fine.

Anyway, I thought I heard something here about how to make them hold tune better.

I'll try to get some pictures up... I may not have it set up quite right. When I use the B bender, it sounds clear and fine (well, considering I suck at it) and the cross bar that the apparatus is attached to doesn't move. The G bender lever does move the cross bar, not side to side, but forward and back facing the length of the neck. I think I have it on well, but who knows.

Anyone with any experience with these will be of great help!

Oh, and by the way, one thing Hipshot could make mention of is that you'll never be able to intonate your guitar easily, with the G Bender lever on there, there's no real way to access the screw. I bought an offset screwdriver, that barely made it possible, so now I have some screws that are Allen wrench adjustable coming my way, so I'll be taking the bridge apart again. Another reason why I'm soliciting advice now.

I plan to make the screws available to anyone here who wants them once I know they are the right kind, I had to order 100 of them, and while I'd just like to buy 16.6666667 more Telecasters, I probably won't be able to do that.

Anyway, thanks all.

Edit: Actually, one big thing somebody could do for me is just to verify that when the G bender is used, that their cross bar doesn't rock forward and back along with it. If it's not supposed to... and I don't think it is... then I'll figure out how to make it stop.

And I guess I should mention that I'm in for a penny and in for a pound, I'll have a couple of drop tuning levers in a while, which could make it more or less stable, as far as I can see. Thanks again!

from what you are describing it sounds to me like you need to check and make sure there is a stabilizing screw that runs from the Hipshot plate up to the center of the "fulcrum/cross" bar. if that screw is NOT there, you will go out of tune every time you use one of the benders....guaranteed.

also, did you place two "stabilizing" screws on either side of the endpin at the baseplate? some of my Hippy equipped teles don't need those screws; couple do.

one other thing to check...make SURE the base-plate is absolutely flush/flat against the top of your guitar before you drill and install the two stabilizing screws on the end of the baseplate.

i really can't think of anything else other than these three things that could be causing your problem, except possibly binding in the nut, but even that would NOT cause the fulcrum/cross bar to move; it would just cause your "bent" strings to come back sharp. the possibly "missing" stabilizing screw i mentioned first is really the only thing i can think of that could allow that bar to move.

good luck with it.....

from what you are describing it sounds to me like you need to check and make sure there is a stabilizing screw that runs from the Hipshot plate up to the center of the "fulcrum/cross" bar. if that screw is NOT there, you will go out of tune every time you use one of the benders....guaranteed.

also, did you place two "stabilizing" screws on either side of the endpin at the baseplate? some of my Hippy equipped teles don't need those screws; couple do.

one other thing to check...make SURE the base-plate is absolutely flush/flat against the top of your guitar before you drill and install the two stabilizing screws on the end of the baseplate.

i really can't think of anything else other than these three things that could be causing your problem, except possibly binding in the nut, but even that would NOT cause the fulcrum/cross bar to move; it would just cause your "bent" strings to come back sharp. the possibly "missing" stabilizing screw i mentioned first is really the only thing i can think of that could allow that bar to move.

good luck with it.....

Thanks for the reply, I didn't install the B-Bender and the main apparatus, all I've done was put the G-Bender lever on it. I don't know how old it is.

The entirety of the Hipshot plate is held on by four screws, as well as the strap button: there is the strap button, and two screws on either side of it, about 1/2" away and a little up. They are held down solid. There are two more screws holding it down on the face of the plate, close to the end of it, close to where the bridge begins. Also held down solidly.

There is some sort of foam padding underneath the plate, I'm able to get a feeler gauge under it at the rear of the guitar, but not at the front/ bridge area of the Hipshot plate. I can't get much in there, and no matter how hard I press on it, it doesn't move. It seems to be on the guitar as well as it should be.

The crossbar that the G and B bender are attached to is only connected to the plate on either end. There is no stabilizing screw and nowhere I can see to put one in. I can't even imagine what that stabilizing screw would look like, although I've heard about it. All I have is the screw and the little washer looking clamps that take the special wrench on there.

Can anybody show me what this stabilizing screw looks like? How do I add this?

I can't find any information on Hipshot's stuff... their website is pretty unhelpful. No pictures or information that's helpful of any kind.

Thanks again!

By the way, I now see that you've answered this question before a few times. Sorry to make you have to do it again.

I think it's clear I need the center stabilizer screw. What does it look like? Where can I get it?

I guess I could just take the crossbar out, and replace it with a bolt and a nut of some kind, but that probably wouldn't look all that good.

And, it would be another trip to Home Depot... and they already screwed up and I had to buy 100 of the wrong size screws to be able to intonate with an Allen wrench.

Thanks again brother!

... Not just the bending strings but the others as well, which makes no sense to me. They are brand new strings, but they've been on a couple of weeks, so they should be fine...

When tuning, ALWAYS tune up to the note. If it's sharp, tune it flat, then up to pitch. When you tune down to a note, there is slight slack in string past the nut and before the bridge that will pull out as you play, making the note flat later. When you tune up to the note, there's no slack left anywhere.

When tuning, ALWAYS tune up to the note. If it's sharp, tune it flat, then up to pitch. When you tune down to a note, there is slight slack in string past the nut and before the bridge that will pull out as you play, making the note flat later. When you tune up to the note, there's no slack left anywhere.

That's good advice, and I do know it... can't say that I didn't just do the easiest thing tonight, though. Thanks for refreshing a good idea.

By the way, I now see that you've answered this question before a few times. Sorry to make you have to do it again.

I think it's clear I need the center stabilizer screw. What does it look like? Where can I get it?

I guess I could just take the crossbar out, and replace it with a bolt and a nut of some kind, but that probably wouldn't look all that good.

And, it would be another trip to Home Depot... and they already screwed up and I had to buy 100 of the wrong size screws to be able to intonate with an Allen wrench.

Thanks again brother!

Why not just buy the right parts from hipshot? They are totally nice about replacement parts etc... you should call them tomorrow...

Absolutely... I don't know what parts to buy, though. My question is, do I have to send the plate back to them for drilling? And then do I have to drill another hole in the Tele? I don't care, I just want to know what I have to do.

And, honestly, I'm not having a lot of luck with Hipshot. I bought the replacement bridge to accommodate the G bender, and one of the adjustable saddle screws stripped out as soon as I tried to use it. The threading was bad, it's not like I was going crazy. I called, and asked them to send me one out- I'd cannibalized one from my previous bridge, but I want to use that someday. They said they would, it never came.

And their prices are insane on that site. $70 plus $15 shipping for the G-Bender lever? I'm just about out of this game. I wanted a Tele... the bender was secondary.

I mean, I'll call them... I'm not expecting much. The initial product isn't really working as advertised. No one told me about any screw. There was no instructions of any kind when it came out to me. None. And I had a terrible time putting it on, because what I could find on their website was awful.

And now I have to pay... how much? To make it work properly?

I'm not really investing a lot more with them. I'll get a proper Fender bender like I owned before, and just make this a stock Tele with some other glittering nonsense.

But, I'll call them tomorrow.

https://store.hipshotproducts.com/secure/images/products/10.jpg

is this the one you have? I have the one with the b and dropped d...

take a close look at the picture and see what is missing...

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with their support, that is a bummer!

they are cool once you get going on them.

getbent is telling you true...i've personally had great luck with Hipshot; they've even sent me stuff free of charge in the past on THEIR nickle (lock washers, star washers, teflon tubing, etc)

you say you bought the unit used; i would almost guarantee the "stabilizing" screw is not there and whoever sold it to you had removed it, not realizing it is crucial to the operation of the unit. THEY most likely thought the unit was defective and that is why they sold it on.

best i can describe the location of the screw is....it runs from underneath the plate UP directly to the absolute center of the fulcrum/cross bar at a 90 degree angle. you may have to "gouge" around in the green felt to "find" it if it is there; the hole for it WILL be there. trust me on this; if it is there, you'll find it....if NOT there, the unit will NEVER work.

if it ISN'T there, you will need to take the unit apart and determine the screw/thread size by process of elimination and replace it. i've had to do this on several units i've bought used..

again...good luck..

You abdo-lutely need the stabilizing screw. I took the felt pad off of mine. Why? Felt compresses.

There's a pad on this screw? I don't have anything like that. My model looks like the one in the picture, as far as I can tell, anyway. I can't get anything close up to see this screw and what it does.

So, just to be clear, this screw comes from the main plate and is pressed up against the crossbar/fulcrum by means of a felt pad? At an angle?

But does it screw into the plate or the guitar itself? I don't have any thread hole in the plate. And additional holes would have to be drilled into the plate.

I'm about to call them.

my friend, are you saying there is NO felt on the underside of the baseplate..???? if there is no felt on the underside, that would actually be a good thing, for as jmiles said above....FELT COMPRESSES....

if there is no felt then there should be a non-threaded hole directly under the fulcrum/cross bar; THAT is where the stabilizing screw will go straight UP into what SHOuld be a threaded hole to the side of the G lever. with all the "stuff" on there you aren't going to see it from the top. look from the BOTtom of the baseplate.

it already ain't working for you, so take the strings out and take the unit off the guitar and look for the screw or at least look for the hole the screw goes thru...

not at all trying to be sarcastic, but this really is not too hard to figure out...i see you are in ST. Louis; i am in Springfield, Mo. if you want to P.M. me we'll set up the possibility of you just sending the unit to ME and i'll check it over. i've literally installed dozens of these things on my own guitars and more than a few for other people.

i've been a member of this forum for years and i am NOT trying to set you up to get ripped off; i WILL try to help if you'll let me...

cheers.....bender-freak

Thanks, brother... there is felt under the plate. I don't see any sort of screw hole, but you tell me I won't see it.

I'm going to call Hipshot, and get this screw out. I'm waiting on the other screws, and I'll be switching out the screws on the bridge anyway, I'll pull the Hipshot off then.

If worst comes to worst, I'll send it to you... I don't think that'll be necessary. Once I know what I need to do, I'm sure I can do it. But it's hard to know that you need a screw if you don't have any idea a screw is needed.

Gotta love the internet. Thanks for all your help!

Okay, here's the deal: I spoke to Bill at Hipshot. He tells me that the units that they sell independently don't come with stabilizing screws, the ones that come from Hipshot themselves do. I can see his point, with only the B-Bender, the unit worked fine.

He says if I send it in they'll drill the plate out for the screw for free, which is good, since I don't want to drill it. I'll send it in in later this week.

Thanks again, everyone, I really appreciate your help. Mystery solved, and soon enough I'll have it all working properly.

that's cool..i have several of those units with just a B bender and those all have the screw holding the fulcrum/crossbar stationary...??!..maybe they've changed their design since i bought a new one, but even with just a B bender, excessive pressure on the "hip" bar would throw the unit "out of pitch" with the non-bent strings....

now I'M confused....LOL, but confusing me is easily accomplished...

glad it all seems to be sorting out for ya.....

Did you order them from Hipshot or a third party? Bill seemed to indicate that they don't use them on third party sold benders. I don't know. Maybe I'm confused. Maybe they just changed the design at some point.

Anyway, I'm fine with sending it to them. I've got the high and low E drop tuning levers as well as the A to G one being shipped out, and what I'll do is, return all that to Hipshot and let them assemble the thing properly once and for all.

And then, I'll learn how to use the things. This isn't my first bender, I had a Parsons/Green, but I didn't have it for long and never got good at it. I'm not good at them still, but I play guitar well, I'm sure I'll come up with something I like.

I'm looking forward to the levers. I like the thought of being in open G with just the flick of a few levers.

This should all be a lot of fun once I've got it sorted out.

Thanks again for all the help! Does anyone know if I can mark this question as having been answered on this site?

i've ordered them from the Hipsters themselves, i've bought them off EvilBay, i've bought them from individuals, i've had some given to me by pickin' buddies that couldn't "get on" with them. i've been using Hipshots since back in the 80's, and ALL the ones i've ever had and ones i still have utilize the stabilizing screw in them. some are just B benders, some are B/G benders, i have one that is B/G/ and A benders, i have some that are B/G with all the toggle levers (i call those "fully-loaded"). i have one that is a triple bender and i altered it and am using it on a Nashville along with the factory internal P/G B bender that i bought new when they first hit the market (96??). they all have/had the D-tuner on the big E string.

one thing they all have in common is the stabilizing screw. some i had to replace the screw because the previous owner removed it for whatever unknown reason. but the "hole" in the baseplate and the "threaded" hole in the fulcrum are/have been there on all of them.

now i guess i'm gonna have to get a new one that i don't really need just to see if they DO put one out that doesn't have the stabilizer....:lol::shock:

Yeah, maybe I got the only one. Bill seemed to say that there were some they didn't do it on... anyway, no harm done. I guess I'll have one that's "fully loaded" soon enough and working strong.

I was serious about the screws, by the way. Not sure what you've been using- and you must have something working for you- but I couldn't find an easy way of doing the intonation of the thing with that levers in the way. I mean, I sort of could with an offset screwdriver, but it was slow. The guy before me had similar problems, some of the screws on the old bridge were stripped out.

So, I bought 100 4-40 3/4" screws, flat head screws that have an Allen wrench adjustable head. I only need twelve or so of them, they didn't cost anything, so if you want me to send some your way I'd be happy to. Just let me verify that they aren't wrong somehow, and I'll mail them to you, if you like. They'll be here Friday.

Thanks again!

larry, what i use for intonation is a lllooooonnnggggg skinny screwdriver (about 12" long) that i got from the hardware store; have one in phillips and one in common and they work a real treat.....don't have any trouble stripping the "slots" out....thanks for the offer, tho....

glad Bill is helping you out; they have always been good to me...

Just as interest, I purchased a Hipshot with B bender only, on ebay about four or five years ago. It was an older unit, and has no screw from the baseplate to the crossbar. There is no hole in the baseplate, or threaded hole in the crossbar. It's always worked fine for me, although I use my Asat with the Evans Pull String 90% of the time these days.

Hey, there you go. I sort of get the idea that the original Hipshot design was basically the B bender and only that, and they only needed to add the extra stability due to the higher demands of the G bending unit. I imagine the drop tuners can add a need for stability as well.

This unit seemed to work fine with just the B bender, it's new to me, but I didn't notice any problems. The G bender made it all go to hell.

Hey, there you go. I sort of get the idea that the original Hipshot design was basically the B bender and only that, and they only needed to add the extra stability due to the higher demands of the G bending unit. I imagine the drop tuners can add a need for stability as well.

This unit seemed to work fine with just the B bender, it's new to me, but I didn't notice any problems. The G bender made it all go to hell.

Larry, I think you are correct. I remember the first ones back in the early 80's (maybe even before that) they had one at McCabe's and I lusted mightily after it... they were pretty simple..

I got one of mine from a third party, beat to hell (but I got it for 20.00) I ended up sending it to hipshot to get refurbbed (70 and shipping which I was happy with) when it came back it had the holes drilled and the felt etc... it has been great... I don't have the G but i have the B and D and it has been super stable...

I'm getting steadily better with it over the years... lots of listening to Bob Warford, early Eagles and the master.. Clarence White... I have some good nights where I just get it and nights when I'm just kind of adding it on...

glad you got a solution! have fun with it!

hhhmmmmm...i've still got my first one i ever got about 82 or 83, i think....it was a fully loaded one with B/G benders, toggles on both E's and A strings...it has the screw....

i still have the next one i got about 85 (actually given to me), a B bender only with toggle on big E, it has the screw..!!?

maybe other than the ones i've gotten that were used that had the screw removed by the previous owner; i've just been lucky.???

but anyway...all of mine (even ones i ended up with that had the screw missing) that i have ever owned and still own, have had the hole in the baseplate and the threaded hole in the fulcrum.:confused: i dunno...????!

As far as intonation is concerned;
My Tele was intonated way before I got my "Fully-Loaded" Hipshot. I installed it, and did not have to re-intonate the guitar.

Well, sure, but that won't last forever, though.

Well, sure, but that won't last forever, though.

just picked up a nifty little ratchet/combination multi screwdriver thingie from O'reilly Automotive this evening with a "flex" extention on it that works just perfect for "getting in there" to intonate after the Hippy is installed. it also has 33 different little allen screw driver and smaller phillips and common screwdriver attachments. there is a "tool" that will fit absolutely everything on the tele bridges for adjusting height/intonation and such; 33 pieces in all in a small compact hard case that will fit in anyone's guitar case/gig bag.. cost was 7.99, and i've already used the crap out of it. camera is gone with my son right now so can't post pics, but the tool is great for getting into those "places" that are stubborn...

About the intonation screws... is there a philips head screw drivers that would have a 90 degree bend on them, like an allen wrench do?

"Well, sure, but that won't last forever, though."

Well, sure, "forever" is a long time, but I haven't had to adjust the intonation on my main Tele in over 20 years. It's still dead on. I always use the same string sets.

Wow, twenty years is a long time! Might as well be forever as far as intonation goes. Mine never last me that long, or maybe I just adjust them anyway. It always seems that once I need to get the neck adjusted and everything else done, I might as well just make sure the intonation is perfect as well.

And yes, there is a Phillips head screwdriver with a ninety degree angle, however, the one I have is too bulky to fit in there regardless. I think that Bender Freak's long and skinny screwdriver would be a better choice, or the automotive tool that he's mentioning would be better as well.

Maybe he'll post a link to it?

Larry,
I haven't had to do any neck adjustments either. If you have, I can see the need for at least checking the intonation. But I would think that once you got the neck back to where it's supposed to be, the intonation should be correct????

Yeah, in theory, I guess it would, but I'd think that in practice, you'd never get the neck back in the exact same place it had been before. I would think that even a very small difference in the straightness of the neck, while undetectable to the hand or the eye, would still change where the intonation is supposed to be, at least a very little.

And in all honesty, my only electric guitar for the last five years or so has been a Jazzmaster, and while I love it, they go out of whack all the time. I've been messing with the bridge on that thing, and paying people to do it from time to time, so much that constant adjustment seems normal, I guess.

So, I have no idea what to expect out of my new crop of guitars, in addition to the Tele, I have a Les Paul Studio and a Gibson Firebird coming my way. I have owned a lot of other electrics in the past, but that was when I didn't do any adjusting of my own guitars. I'm still learning how to do it well, actually.

And also, I was planning on "retiring" the Jazzmaster in light of all the new guitars, but I just could not bring myself to do it, so I gutted it and had all new pickups and electronics sent out, and I shielded it and put it all back together. I also put on new tuners and replaced the old terrible bridge with one of these:

http://www.masterybridge.com/home.html

There is a learning curve with that bridge, but maybe I can get twenty years of intonation out of it now!

But I had it professionally setup, it needed a truss rod adjustment and some fret work. The next time I need a truss rod setup, I'm jumping on in, but this last time I just had the shop do it. I guess I didn't have the guts. So they did the new bridge while they were at it.