3 notes is enough, for chords?

I'm wondering if I'm starting to get in a bad habit, here. I'm finding it MUCH easier (not surprisingly) to finger and just play 3 note voicings of some chords.

For example, I find this chord change challenging (for me -- easy for others, I'm sure): slide into xx981010, then go right to a B7 7x787x.

But if I drop the bass note, and just finger it xxx81010 and xx787x, it's a ton easier, especially if I hybrid pick, and to my ear, it doesn't lose that much. I can move forward a lot more quickly in the song.

Is this the road to perdition, here? :(

IMO you can change the voicing of a chord as much as you please. It's not that important to play "the right thing". You know, in jazz, there are always tons of alternative chords, a simple A major chord can be cut in half and tritone substituted etc. etc. etc. until you have something entirely different. Music is personal expression, do whatever you want. You are always allowed to be lazy.

If you're in a band with a bass player, you can even do with just playing the third, and maybe the octave of what the bass player is playing. Then you can throw in all the fun notes, like the 7th and a b5 or whatever.

No problem with that. As ledet points out, jazz cats do that sort of thing all the time.

I'll go one further--I think it's preferable in many situations.

Nothing worse than seeing some band with two guitarists both bashing out six string barre chords. Screaming mud.


Note to self: Screaming Mud = awesome band name.

Nothing worse than seeing some band with two guitarists both bashing out six string barre chords. How about a band where the guitarists are trying to play the same chords and failing. 8-)

Note to self: Screaming Mud = awesome band name.This is true.

Thx all -- I'm not thinking so much in a band context, or with a bass player, but just playing alone, working on a transcribed piece. If I could negotiate the changes more quickly, I would play what's written, but it's so much easier to just play three notes. <sigh>

When I gig with either another guitar player or a keyboard player many times I only play two notes. I could probably do most of my gigs with just the D, G and B strings ... seriously.

What your asking is a good question. In many situations, as said above, it is preferrable to be able to play alternate versions of the chords, especially when playing with others.

If it makes it easier for you to "Get into" the music at this stage, go for it. You can always add to your knowledge base by doing this and when you are more comfortable with the guitar, work on the full versions of chords. You will find that knowing how to do both (and play the same chord at several places on the neck using barre and partial barre chords) is a good thing. My thoughts have always been to make practice more fun than work as you are more likely to stick with it. This is not a race to see who is best, but a journey we are all on to just keep getting better. :mrgreen:

I use 3 and even 2 note "chords" or voicings in almost everything I do. I think it's kinda fun to see what i can come up with that will still be in context with what is being played.

I do get a lot of "What the H-LL was THAT you just did???" from other guitarists I play/jam with, and I'll "break" it down and i enjoy the "Oh, Yeah!!" moment when they "get" it. And I enjoy getting the same thing from other guitarists.

I'm like a sponge, I'll ASK someone how they just did something that catches my ear and I'll haunt/pester/hound/annoy them till they show ME...it's how I learned what little I know.

A lot of times less is more. I'm a piano player that does this a lot. Many times especially in a blues or rock context with dominant 7th chords I will only play the 3 and the 7with the left hand. It adds a lot of color while not mudding things up. It also leaves plenty of toom for different melody ideas. This was an early jazz idea that carries over real well to other genres. ...... IMO

Thx all -- I'm not thinking so much in a band context, or with a bass player, but just playing alone, working on a transcribed piece. If I could negotiate the changes more quickly, I would play what's written, but it's so much easier to just play three notes. <sigh>

Perhaps think of getting the change in tempo (helps to practice with a metronome) Doing what you are doing now with 2-3 notes and between the "first and second strum/beat" work on getting the other notes fingered. If that makes sense. I for what ever reason seem to end up in bands that want to cover Interstate Love Song by S.T.P. Not my favorite tune but the verse, to me any way, is a bit of a finger twister so I usually end up making the chord changes via triads then getting the root fingered on the second beat. And as others have stated, playing just three notes of a chord can be really pleasing to the ear. Hope that makes sense.

IMO you can change the voicing of a chord as much as you please. It's not that important to play "the right thing". You know, in jazz, there are always tons of alternative chords, a simple A major chord can be cut in half and tritone substituted etc. etc. etc. until you have something entirely different. Music is personal expression, do whatever you want. You are always allowed to be lazy.

If you're in a band with a bass player, you can even do with just playing the third, and maybe the octave of what the bass player is playing. Then you can throw in all the fun notes, like the 7th and a b5 or whatever.

Just to clarify, in jazz, the 3rd and the 7th notes of the chord are the important ones. They define respectively whether you are playing major or minor, and major 7th or flat (or dominant) 7th. If I am needing to work out a voicing from first principles, I usually start with these two.

I tend to stay away from the 1st and the 5th as these are gnerally being played by the bass.

Re tritone subs for majors, tritone subs tend to work with dom 7ths rather than maj 7ths for a couple of reasons:


they work on the principle that the 3 and 7 in the starting chord become the 7 and 3 in the substitute chord
the other notes in the substitute chord become acceptable extensions (mostly) because you can pretty much add any note to a dom 7th chord except a major 7th note.


So for instance G7 is G B D F. The tritone sub C#7 is C# F G# B (simply taking the tritone of each note). Note what the B and F are doing. The C# and G# will sound as a b5 and b9 with respect to the original chord - could work fine if they fit with the melody - and will give you an altered, more modern sound.

Tritone subs with major 7ths don't really work because the 3-7 symmetry is not present and major 7ths are fussier about what notes can be added.

Cmaj7 is C E G B. If you simply take the tritone of each note, you get F#maj7 - F# A# C# F. There is no trace of the original chord and the notes have a strained relationship with the original chord:


the F# is say the sharp 4,
the A# is the b7 which is a note you do not want to play over a major 7


etc.

Stumbled upon this myself, and after my ear adjusted to the 'smaller' forms, I actually much prefer them to big block chords. I was working on "Monk's Dream" this past week and I found an added bonus in that, if I used a 2 or 3 note chord, I was in better hand position to grab an 'important' bass in the main theme. And, IMO, it's a great way to use different extensions (b5, 9, etc.) that can sometimes sound stale in a big chord.

I play jazz only as a hobby, but the same thing can be applied to blues and funk things.

It sounds counterintuitive, but smaller chord voicings tend to be more powerful sounding than big block chords.

It sounds counterintuitive, but smaller chord voicings tend to be more powerful sounding than big block chords.

This is very true. Doen't cloud the importance of the harmony. When you play six string barre chord versions of triads, you get those octaves, rubbing up on one another, everr-so-slightly out of tune as a guitar is not an even-tempered instrument--it dulls the edges, so to speak. It's all big and warm and fuzzy.

Too many strings with different notes (big six string chords harmonized to the seventh and beyond) and you often have too much info in too close a range. Best to stick to the "important stuff" and let it come thru loud and clear.

Even when you take the guitar completly out of the mix. Playing just the 3 and 7 with the left hand lets all the right hand stuff cut through really well and you lose no color and the bass player seems happier when you are staying off the root.

You can argue that note choice has as much play as overall tone in any of the many "X guitar + X amp doesn't cut through the mix" threads.

Don't get me started on that phrase, though!

I was working on "Monk's Dream" this past week

Coincidentally I've been messing with that tune too.
Very cool how many times the 'melody' note is the extension or the altered tone in the chord.
Monk (like the Beatles), always something new, innovative and interesting!

Amen. Having read and enjoyed (and learned) from your posts over the years, I am sure my work does not equal your work, but IMO I love how the A section sounds on guitar.

BTW, I started out on Little Rootie Tootie for the eleventeenth hundred time, but can't find a decent representation of Monk's cluster chords. I am still inspired by a version NRBQ did that is OOP.

Django made a career of three note chords. Partially his hand and partially because the Hot club always had and chunky Rhythm guitarist and the bass would do the roots.

I'll go one further--I think it's preferable in many situations.

Nothing worse than seeing some band with two guitarists both bashing out six string barre chords. Screaming mud.


Note to self: Screaming Mud = awesome band name.

Who here has heard of Steve Cropper?
I have learned some chord changes on the higher strings that require very little movement and compliment what the other guys are playing. They think I am cool and experienced. Actually I'm lazy...:wink:

I started out on Little Rootie Tootie for the eleventeenth hundred time, but can't find a decent representation of Monk's cluster chords. I am still inspired by a version NRBQ did that is OOP.

Some of the monk voicings are nearly if not totally impossible on one guitar.
What NRBQ record?

Three-note chords can be a great tool to use, but it can also cause problems. When I play with other guitars, I try to play in a different position on the neck; it spreads the chords out and can make them "bigger" in a way.

I also play in a jazz big band, which is way fun, but also has it's areas to watch out for. We have more another guitar player, and while we both play in rehearsal, only one of us plays at a time in a concert or at a gig.

Anyway, the other guitarist plays almost exclusively three-note chords in the low register across a single octave. This can really stomp on the bass player. I try play 4 notes and try to keep things on the upper 4 strings when I can, because there are others in the low registers. For example, I often will only play straight half-notes for accompaniment chords during trombone features; it keeps me out of their way sonically and rhythmically so that I don't "compete" with what they're doing.

The goal is to not be a one-trick pony, and to be able to adapt to what's needed for the specific musical context.

Some of the monk voicings are nearly if not totally impossible on one guitar.
What NRBQ record?

It was on "That's The Way I Feel Now" which was the first Hal Wilner project. Peter Framptom/Chris Spedding did "Working", Joe Jackson and big band did "...Midnight", John Zorn did John Zorn, Steve Khan, Mark Bingham; it was a guitar heavy collection.

Unfortunately NRBQ did not make the cut when it went to CD:
http://www.amazon.com/Thats-Way-I-Feel-Now/dp/B00000DNCH

Most of the answers on this thread are about playing with a band, which the OP made clear is not what he is asking about.

My answer to your question is simply, it depends on which three notes! Sometimes one note will do, sometimes more, it just depends on the context. In your example you talk about leaving off the low note. Depending on the trascription, does that note go with the notes before and after to form a continuos line? Then you maybe need it, but if not maybe you don't. What matters is how the tune flows. Play it over and let your ear decide. Maybe try just playing that low note and leave off the others rather than the other, to see how it fits into the song.

Just consider that if it's difficult to play it the way it's written, overcoming that and learning to play it will make you a better player. Though you still might find that a particular song sounds better with less notes in a chord.

I play solo gigs often, and the advice is the same.

Three note clusters plus a bass note--most of the time. Otherwise, the bottom falls out if I want to take a single note line. Big chords are for exclamation points.

Five and six string chords are like playing with your amp on ten. All the way up, all the way up. Where can you go from there? When I need that little push over the edge...

My answer to your question is simply, it depends on which three notes! [...]

Just consider that if it's difficult to play it the way it's written, overcoming that and learning to play it will make you a better player. Though you still might find that a particular song sounds better with less notes in a chord.

In the example I cited, I think the song sounds best with the 'proper' chord formation. But it's a trade-off between spending some time getting the change to work smoothly, and sounding *slightly* more harmonically complex, vs., quickly nailing the change, and learning the rest of the song.

So it's laziness, but I also like simple, and it's a ton easier for me to visualize shapes with '3' points, if this makes sense. And while I don't understand the theory behind why I can have a dominant 7th sound, for example, with only 3 notes, instead of 1,3,5,b7 knowing these little shapes has really been accelerating my practice.

I'm not making sense, probably, but y'all have been very helpful, as I think about this, for sure.

You only need 2 notes to get a 'dominant 7th' sound - 3rd and 7th.

Why? you ask.

The 3rd will determine major or minor (chord quality).
The b7 expresses what we refer to as dominant - leading back to a I chord (generally).

The b7 of a dominant or V7 chord is one 1/2 step above the 3rd of the I chord.
The 3rd of the V7 chord is one 1/2 step below the root of the I chord.

In 'legit' parlance, a dom.7th V chord resolving to I - "3rd up / 7th down".

Ex: E7 to A (V7 to I)
G# and D resolve to A and C#.
That's the meat of both those chords.