Desperately seeking pickup advice.

Long time lurker, relatively short time member and first time poster. There's just so much information here, I found the answer to nearly all of my questions by making use of search function. However, there's one question now that I can't be answered that way, so here's my first post then.


Despite my user name, I'm not having fun at all with my Tele at all. I tried to, but now I'm THIS close to giving up on my Tele and any single coil pickups completely. The reason ? I can't seem to get a set of pickups that works for me. I tried asking at a different forum. But instead of real advice, it just turned into an endless list of random <insert pickup name here> posts by people who couldn't be arsed to actually read my post.
Though I don't gig any more and I'll be getting rid of most of my collection soon, it would be nice to have a complete and functional guitar in the attic instead of a pile of Telecaster bits. Beside regular procrastination, what's keeping me from putting it together is the lack of a decent sounding set of pickups.


First, I had a Seymour Duncan Vintage Broadcaster bridge and Seymour Duncan Vintage Rhythm neck. The bridge was really nice with the perfect amount of output to drive my amp. I'd like my next bridge pickup to be just as powerful. What I didn't like about it was that it seriously missed some "complexity" or "air" or whatever I should call it. It was a sound without a soul, without a feeling, without character or anything going on.
The neck was quite nice as well, but again, without that certain something. Also, it was quite weak compared to the strong bridge. Switching from bridge to neck resulted in a tremendous loss of volume and and the difference between both pickups on or just the bridge was rather small.

Next were Don Mare Pickups, I only had them in my guitar for a couple of moments with alligator leads. For the bridge, I got the (then) secret Black Crowes bridge: a souped up Super Sport that is now available as the EL Black Krowe. Though this pickup had all sorts of wonderful harmonic overtones going on that I was missing with the Duncans, they were kind of drab. As exciting as an equalizer pedal with everything in the middle but the output volume at minus five. Yes, it really was quite a weak sounding pickup compared to the force of the Broadcaster.
For the neck, Don recommended the S-Telly. A pickup that is supposed to mimic a Strat neck pickup. This also had the complexity I missed in the Duncans, but no distinctive voice, flat as a diet coke after an hour. The Balance between the two pickups was somewhat better, but still not ideal.

About five years ago, I got to play a Fender Custom Shop Telecaster Custom Classic. It had a "Classic Tele" in the bridge that I didn't really care for. Sure, it sounded like a nice Tele, but nothing out of the extraordinary. The neck pickup, however, was really neat ! It was called the "Twisted Tele." At the time, the Twisted Tele only came with the Custom Classic and the John 5 Signature Tele. I don't know if they changed anything about it when they moved the Twister out of the Custom shop and into the Baja Tele.
What's been keeping me from buying a used one on eBay is that I didn't like it when the amp was set to dirty. There were harsh, shrill, nasty and metallic overtones that I couldn't dial out on the guitar or on the amp.


So now that you know where I'm coming from and where I'd like to go, I'd really like to hear recommendations from people who have actual experience with any of the pickups mentioned above.
If you can't tell me how your recommendation compares to these pickups, it'll be another guess for me whether or not it will be the sound that I'm looking for. I've pissed away enough money like that...


Thank you for your help !

The answer is simple. You don't like Teles!

Seriously, you need to get out there and play some guitars. I don't know what you have in the way of stores where you live but, the only way to truly discover what you want is by hearing it.

You've listed some fine pickups by some of the best manufacturers and none of them gets you all the way there. The subtle nuances you're looking at can only be discovered by getting out there and hearing things for yourself.

The journey to discovery can be a lot of fun! Good luck!

What amp are you using?

Mostly Marshall Studio 15's.

What amp are you using?

That was going to be my first question. My second one : what type of music do you play and what musicians' tone would you like to emulate ?
You may not need some new pickups but maybe a new amp. :shock:
The Mare S-Telly in my experience is an amazing pickup and SD stuff is great too.

OK, here's advice:

You are looking for what you don't like rather than looking for what you *do* like. Until you flip that you will, by definition, be disappointed.

In the mean time, dust off the Don Mare pickups and actually bolt them in place and solder them into the circuit. Clip-leads are good for finding out if something will fire up, but horrid for tonal evaluation.

Also, look at the tone control cap and if it's a ceramic disc cap hit it carefully with a hammer and buy a different cap.

Slow down.

Enjoy!

...and if you still don't like your S-Telly, PM me and I will send you some cash to take it off your hands. :wink: I'm serious. :mrgreen:
I have a Twisted Tele, we can swap ... :grin:

What style of music do you play or whose sound do you like?

Maybe it is your amp.. have you tried other amps?

I have a set of Nocasters in one guitar, and esquire with a SD Broadcaster and a 3rd with 3 P-90s. I like them all... the 3 P-90 and Nocaster equipped guitars are very versatile. I play mostly blues and blues based stuff. My current amp is a SF Princeton Reverb.

from my experience, using a Vox Pathfinder 15r:

- Custom Shop Twisted Tele (black/white/yellow wires) : bright, clear & nice details. kinda shrill when overdriven.
- Baja Twisted Tele (black/yellow/green wires) : not as bright & detailed as the CS, clear & has more low/bottom end, sounds more 'rounded' than the CS.
- Baja Broadcaster bridge : has more low/bottom end than the Duncan Broadcaster, handles overdrive/distortion better. not as detailed but has more "air"
- Seymour Duncan Vintage Broadcaster : complex but flat(?), I don't really like it when pushed harder on overdrive/distortion.
- Highway One set: not too detailed, less twangy, more "modern" sounding, sounds great when pushed into heavy distortion.

basically, all of the above are great. For now I stick with the Baja set because it has more low end than the other I tried.

hope that helps....

or maybe you need to plug the Tele to another amp....

or maybe your guitar is just a dud, no matter what pickups you put in there, it will always sound a dud.
so, by the way, what tele are you using??

I was thinking about using my Tele mostly for bluesy rock or perhaps some occasional contemporary guitar pop/rock. I'm not trying to emulate anybody, I'm really just looking for my own Tele tone. I know what I like and I know what I don't like about the pickups I have tried so far and I was that the buffs of this forum would know where to steer me.


Trust me when I say I wouldn't ask you good lads about pickups if I hadn't narrowed the problem down to them. It's either the pickups, or Telenator is right and I simply don't like Teles.

While the Studio 15's get the most use with the Tele, I have a wide variaty of amps at my disposal from my gear-hoarding days and I'm not happy with my Tele on any of them. The better amps in my collection include various Marshall JCM800's (all split channel versions) that aren't fond of single coils. Then there are a Handwired VOX AC15 and Mesa/Boogie F-30 that both might move to a new owner this weekend. The last traditional amp worth mentioning is a worn down Fender Hot Rod Deville.
I also have a couple of racks from my gigging days. One is build around the Marshall JMP-1 preamp, the other around Mesa/Boogie TriAxis preamp.

The Tele in question is a Warmoth with swamp ash body, maple neck and fretboard that I wouldn't call "dud" myself. As in most of my guitars, the caps are NOS Paper-in-oil from the Russian military and the pots are made by CTS for RS. The last time it was a complete and functional guitar, it was wired to have a master volume and a master tone.

http://members.home.nl/vincenteisen/Warmoth/body-oblique-1.jpg

Ron Ellis. Do a search for his stuff on this site.

You only tried the Don Mare set briefly with a jury-rigged installation. I suggest you install them properly and play them for a few weeks. Why not? You might just discover the things that they do best.

I have the Don Mare Supersport/Stelly pickups in my #1. My favorite set. Your Black Crowes bridge is the same pickup wound 100 ohms higher, a negligible difference IMO. For me, adjusting the heights gets them in balance close enough. Into my 5E3 clone, the sound is superb, precisely what I want. The bridge is bright enough to chop through when I want it to, gutty with the guitar tone rolled back a little. The neck is mellow but very clear and defined.

For all I know, I might feel the same way you do if I was using a Marshall Studio 15 and trying to play the same type of music you do.

I think Telenator had the best advice. Play a lot of guitars until you find one that does what you want. Nobody else is going to want what you want and hear what you hear. I can't possibly advise you. Our tastes are too different, and my amp makes everything sound great. To me.

no, your guitar is not a "dud"
and I believe your playing skill is far better then mine :)
maybe it just isn't for you?

I just wanted to add this: Don's pickups are extraordinary. His dedication to tone, and his skill make his pickups worth every penny you pay for them. They deserve a second chance in the guitar if you still have them. Wire 'em up for real (no alligator clips) and let them live in the guitar for a while. Mess with the pickups heights, play them for a while both on your own and in a live setting. If they don't work for you after putting some time into them, then I'd say a call to Ron Ellis is in order.:grin:

Hi, Its not the right pickups for you..

that was a big risk going from wire 43 to a overwound 42

and going for the Straty neck was also risky -

seemed like you were OK with the Seymour wire 43 and regular neck.

but just wanted something more intriguing..

you really just need my (0038) 10k wire 43 model and a 1955 neck with Nickle Silver cover..


since you never cut or soldered my leads send them back to me and lets get you into a set that will perk your ears up..

I wish you would have emailed me this problem instead of, seeing my pickups take a beating and a blame on a public forum when it was not their falut at all.. the same pickups you did not like - actually have received nothing but compliments for five years and not one negative!, so I'm pretty proud of that and also a bit protective if someones trying to unfairly blame them..

send them back - I will be very happy to see that (like most of us here) , you too will LOVE Teles soon!

address-info: is on my web site

please do not add anything on to the shipping that would demand a signature from me or my PO BOX - cause that automatically sends me to a different post office to sign for it, and Id have to stand in long line- for about one hour - we have long lines this time of year here - X-mas rush, and I cant stand at all really - cause my knee is blown out (awaiting surgery) and my other leg is shot from doing all the work - my limit on standing is about 5 min..

also add a note with package and on it: rewrite your address super clearly and that your trading for a 10K and 55 neck,ok

No beating here, pal. Most here know you make some of the best damn pickups around...and the fact that you'll take them back shows you're a true believer in tone. And customer service.:grin:

Way to step up, Don!

Just out of curiousity, how would you describe the difference between my Supersport/Stelly set and the (0038) 10k wire 43 model and a 1955 neck with Nickle Silver cover you are recommending to the OP? This would be with a 5E3.

Right on Don!

I prefer something like a Fender Twin, but really, if you have a decent amp and a speaker that reproduces the frequency range with coloration you want (not always easy to discern), I wholeheartedly recommend turning up the mids all the way, while turning down the bass and treble from most people's settings. With Bill Lawrence's pickups (amazingly clear), it tends to work out to be bass on 2-4 and treble on 1-3 with most amps and guitars I've tried, but that will of course vary with other pickups (sometimes substantially). Also, particularly with the bridge position, I would turn down the tone pot to about halfway to take out the sharp quality to the resonance with many pickups. On Fender, Vox and Marshall amps, both the treble and bass are effectively boosts, while the mid control is a cut. If you want an even tone with a lot of body, it's helpful to experiment with a flatter voicing at the amp and adjust to taste depending on what the speaker cabinet needs. This avoids the mid scoop that can result in a lack of lower order harmonics on the higher strings (making them sound treble-heavy) and stealing tons of definition from lower strings, leading to terribly unbalanced chords and difficulty adjusting for even playing characteristics in general. Of course this approach works best with a very clear pickup to start with, but it will give you a strong impression of how to best resolve issues with others as well.

I'd take Don up on his offer before putting money into an additional set of pickups. Good luck!

my knee is blown out (awaiting surgery) and my other leg is shot from doing all the work - my limit on standing is about 5 min..


I don't know if you've ever had therapy for either, but I really recommend a book called Pain Free by Egoscue. I used to have a considerable physical problems that weren't resolved through physical therapy and I was pretty concerned I'd have to end up getting surgery, and this book really helped me out tremendously. Be well soon Don!

First, I had a Seymour Duncan Vintage Broadcaster bridge and Seymour Duncan Vintage Rhythm neck. The bridge was really nice with the perfect amount of output to drive my amp. I'd like my next bridge pickup to be just as powerful. What I didn't like about it was that it seriously missed some "complexity" or "air" or whatever I should call it. It was a sound without a soul, without a feeling, without character or anything going on.


From what you are describing here, I think a Fred Stuart Blackguard bridge pickup would be exactly what you are looking for.

From what you are describing here, I think a Fred Stuart Blackguard bridge pickup would be exactly what you are looking for.

I'm not so sure, cause that's almost an identical pickup to my El Black Crow its about 300 turns diff.. is all - I'm pretty sure its hotter and wire 42'
its the higher ohm 42 that's the culprit in this case, because the way hes running the rig if he was to use wire 42 - he'd need like a 6k - just to get thru that amp, but at 6k he would not have the power of a 43 Broadcaster type wind. his only hope is to stay with the 43 and the regular neck and get them to open up with air and organics, via the hand winding.. the overwound darker pickups are not translating thru his amp at all.. regardless of their build and hand wound pattern. :wink:

I had a feeling something like this might happen, saying you don't love Don's work on this forum is like swearing in church. I'll think about returning them for something else, all right ? In the meantime, let's ignore everything I said about the Mare's and focus on the other pickups that I like, but don't quite love enough to have them in my guitar.

The powerful output of the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster Bridge is perfect for me. I like the tone of the raunchy mids enough as well, but it just lacks the complex and harmonic overtones that give a good pickups soul and character.

Duncan's Vintage Rhythm Neck has a nice tone, but again no harmonic overtones that make the sound come alive. A bit like the difference between a real piano and a digital keyboard. Also, it's way too weak to work with the Broadcaster.

The Fender (Custom Shop) Twisted Tele is one of the coolest clean souds I have ever heard from a Tele neck. However, I couldn't stand the shrill, nasty and metallic overtones I got when using the Twisted Tele pickup on a dirty amp. An icepick to the ears !

I'd like to hear from people who actually have experience with these pickups and replaced them them for something else for the same reasons.

You sure don't sound like you're having any "fun" with your Tele ! :shock::lol:
A good attitude goes a long way, especially when asking for help... Don was super nice, I think he needs to be thanked, not chastized. Just my opinion. :neutral:

Sorta like swearing in church...

Don is a highly regarded maker one ANY forum. There are a limited number of people on the planet that know more about tele pups than him. Maybe u just don't like teles.

All the great Telecaster players of the past who's sound you admire probably just went down to the store and bought a Telecaster and played it. If you can't get a sound you like with what you have, it's not the guitar's fault. Make your playing sound good with what you have, and you'll realize there was nothing wrong with the guitar in the first place. Guitars and pickups don't play themselves.

I have Bill Lawrence "Keystone" PUPs and I think they are great! I have never heard Don Mare's PUPs but as a forum member for the last few years have never seen anything other than very positive reviews for his pick ups. There is not one instance that I can recall less than an excellant impression for his products. In addition, in review of this thread and others, he makes himself available in a personal and professional manner in the same way Bill and Becky Lawrence do, (if that's possible!).
I think I'd take him up on his offer and see what can be done with his pick ups before re-inventing the wheel and going on to something else. If you are still unsatisfied after his modifications and adjustments then you can go many different directions.
I'd also keep in mind that a professional set up on the guitar with adjustment of your pick up heights, neck, bridge, etc., can make a huge difference.
Good luck with your Tele tone quest!

PS- That is a frigging great looking Tele you have there!

try an sg

If you really want to take a whipping, say something bad about Ron Kirn. hehe

First and foremost, a pickup is a microphone: a transducer that picks up the sound of the strings. If the right vibrations are not there on the strings then the best pickup in the world won't do it. The acoustic sound of the guitar is merely an indication for selecting a good guitar: when you play it the whole guitar should vibrate.

Having selected a good guitar, it needs to be set up correctly. String selection is important: use your preferred set but never try to do a set up when they are brand new. From new the nut will always be too high. The action can be very low but fret buzz is never acceptable on an electric guitar, especially a tele, because it damps the strings and adds unharmonious vibrations.

Having got the good guitar set up right then adjust the pickups. Only then adjust their heights. The tele bridge pickup in particular usually has a sweet spot to be found: the neck pickup then needs to be adjusted to match the bridge pickup, this could be to the same output as the bridge, or louder/quieter to its sweet spot as you prefer.

The tele controls are very simple: the stock 250k pots with a single 47nF cap works well.

What I am saying is that if the guitar don't sound right, it's not always down to the pickups.

Rest assured that the guitar was set up perfectly. As I said earlier, I wouldn't ask you about pickups if I hadn't narrowed the problem down to them.

There's nothing I said in this thread about the Duncans and the Twisted Tele that I didn't say to Don. We also talked about him having the Broadcaster and the Five-Two in one of his guitars at some point and the work he performed on the Twisted Tele pickups that were send to him. That's what made me decide to go with him. A winder who has actually used a bridge pickup I almost loved and knew a way to improve the last few things about a neck pickup I almost loved ? Who could possibly understand better what I'm looking for than him !
I thought I would finally have the output, tone and harmonic complexity I was looking for and a proper balance in volume when flipping the pickup selector switch. Sadly, it didn't quite turn out as I expected.

Don sounds like an incredibly busy man and with his troubled legs and the holidays approaching, I'm sure he can think of better ways to spend his time than winding me another set.

Hi, despite my knee and being busy as always, ( I'm used to all that anyways - no problem)
Cause; Actually I ~really-really~want to wind you another set~ asap..
Because I know 100% it's actually going to solve this totally lame predicament your stuck in, with your Tele and amp and the old "hole in the wallet" getting deeper,,, and more importantly, I know the new set is going to be perfect, and make you really happy~~ so finally your " Having Fun with that Tele" Tele's RULE!
So there's no real reason at all we cant get yours kickin' up some mean dust!.:grin:.

I've used the pickups you've described above. If you don't want to take Don up on his offer, there's one more place to go: Ron Ellis.

people who have actual experience with any of the pickups mentioned above.
If you can't tell me how your recommendation compares to these pickups, it'll be another guess for me whether or not it will be the sound that I'm looking for. I've pissed away enough money like that...


Thank you for your help ![/QUOTE]

Check www.kinman.com

Best pickups ever, pricey too, but you can listen to soundclips before you buy them.
I have a set of kinmans in a strat, but opted for Keystones in a Tele. A bit more cost effective.

Good Luck, Mike

gZyXmksnW3w

Here's the amp of choice, and by chance the clip is featuring a Tele.. ( but pickups were not _named_)

All the above mentioned pickups would sound great thru a Clean Fender with Reverb, but this Marshall Studio 15 requires some considerations...

IMHO a 10k wire 43 and a taller chassis 43' neck ( not the 55' I previously suggested) would be the ideal pickup set to get the full potential..
that amp calls for powerful pickups but yet they should still be very clear ~ otherwise it will muddle up this cool (rare) little amp. :wink:

So did you ever actually solder the Don Mare pickups in place and play some music?

I notice your running a 2 volume 2 tone control setup on your Tele. A simpler signal path may be the way to go. Also check out Ritchie Kotzen on you-tube, his signature tele may be what you are lookiing for, it has a Dimarzio Chopper-T in the bridge. Even if you don't dig the pickups, he's a great player!

Rest assured that the guitar was set up perfectly. As I said earlier, I wouldn't ask you about pickups if I hadn't narrowed the problem down to them.

As I said, even with the best setup, it's not always down to the pickupses.

Example: take my Epi jazzbox and my Artcore semi; the pickups sound bright in the jazzbox; the Artcore sounds brown; put the humbuckers from the jazzbox into the Artcore - it still sounds brown. Conclusion - not the pickupses then.

FYI the Epi had Epi Classic57 replaced with Tonerider Rocksong set; the Artcore has the usual Ibanez ACH-1/ACH-2 ceramics. The Toneriders actually went into the Artcore before fitting to the jazzbox. The Rocksongs (a "vintage" alnico "PAF" type) are a big improvement over the Classic57.

Another example: my stratoclone, a modified Aria STG3: nice looking bit of wood, well set up by me, Wilkinson vintage bridge, bone nut, Kent-Armstrong pickups, Twisted-Tele neck pickup, trick controls, etc etc yadda yadda.
Still sounds naif !
Conclusion - it's the wood.
Supporting evidence - the neck screws have now pulled out. I shall probably not bother to repair it but port the good parts onto a new body and neck.

You have tried a number of very good pickups. The problem could be down to the "wood": suggest try another tele.

The Fender (Custom Shop) Twisted Tele is one of the coolest clean souds I have ever heard from a Tele neck. However, I couldn't stand the shrill, nasty and metallic overtones I got when using the Twisted Tele pickup on a dirty amp. An icepick to the ears !

I'd like to hear from people who actually have experience with these pickups and replaced them them for something else for the same reasons.[/QUOTE]

can't say i've played the same pups, but long ago had the same problems. when i was young i played rock thru overdriven tube amps and teles...after a few other fender pups were tried, duncan claimed those icepicks and nasty shrills seemed to have come from alnico 5 pups...i installed the sd alnico II pro (which were new at the time) and problem no more...i also had a dimarzio pre-b 1 and it worked well,too (big mids)...maybe we sorta hear the same stuff

I replaced the Twisted Tele in the Baja with the one from the AmSer07. I found the Twisted one too nasal despite much screw fiddling.

It's said to be more like a strat pickup so it went to live in my stratoclone. I much prefer the cool jazz-like sound of the standard tele neck pickup, it makes an excellent foil to the brilliant Broadcaster. The "American Tele" (AmSer) neck pickup is considered one of the best.

The Alnico II are supposed to sound like really old and aged Alnico V, but the Alnico pickups they made >50y ago in the 50s could have been 2, 3, 4 or 5 - they were just magnets.

It really depends what the magnets have been gaussed up to. There are two magnetic factors, field strength and flux density. Alnico has a higher flux density than ceramic but a lower field strength. Unfortunately ceramic cannot be made small enough to fit as pole pieces so it has to be further away, so it has a weaker field, so it needs to be a bigger stronger magnet, slung under the coil, miles away from the strings. The higher flux density of Alnico gives it a finer dynamic range, more subtle nuances. You do not actually require a very powerful magnet for a pickup, it can be counter-productive, the field just has to be in the right place.

I notice your running a 2 volume 2 tone control setup on your Tele.A picture may be worth a thousand words, but might always tell the entire story.

The last time it was a complete and functional guitar, it was wired to have a master volume and a master tone.

As I said, even with the best setup, it's not always down to the pickupses.

Example: ...Yes, hank you for your examples, Jeff, also for the bit about magnets and such. But my Warmoth has a superb acoustic tone that's surprisingly loud and resonant. As you may have read, I thought the sound was great with the Duncans, it just didn't have any harmonic character. The same sensation as playing the a sampled piano in a digital keyboard. Nice, but something's missing. On top of that, the balance in volume between the bridge and neck was rubbish.
Harmonics in bucketloads with the Mares ! Just little output and I missed the raunchy mids of the Duncan Broadcaster. Also, the balance in volume between the bridge and neck wasn't any better than with the Duncans.

The hardware is good and will be even better once I get some new bits and put the guitar back together, the pots and caps are as fine as they come, the setup is flawless, the wood is toneful, my collection of amps is fine and covers a lot of ground. At the risk of sounding like a broken record: I wouldn't ask about pickups if I hadn't narrowed the problem down to them.


My perfect set:

A bridge with the output level and the raunchy mids of Duncan's Broadcaster and the complex harmonic overtones of the Mares.

A neck pickup with the sound of the Fender Custom Shop Twisted Tele (not to be mistaken with the one from the Baja Tele) with perhaps a tad more high end sparkle and without the nasty icepick when used dirty. Mare-like complexity and for, once a neck pickup that works well with the bridge. No more re-dialing in the amp when flipping the pickup selector switch.

Hi, despite my knee and being busy as always, ( I'm used to all that anyways - no problem)
Cause; Actually I ~really-really~want to wind you another set~ asap..
Because I know 100% it's actually going to solve this totally lame predicament your stuck in, with your Tele and amp and the old "hole in the wallet" getting deeper,,, and more importantly, I know the new set is going to be perfect, and make you really happy~~ so finally your " Having Fun with that Tele" Tele's RULE!
So there's no real reason at all we cant get yours kickin' up some mean dust!.:grin:.

Alright then, you win. :cool: I'll send them back to Long Beach in the new year. I'm in no rush as my Tele currenly only exists in a "pile of bits" state anyway and I'll have to order some more bits. For instance, the Jaguar bridge with threaded saddles is rubbish. I'll get a Warmoth Modified Mustang bridge to take care of the compound 10-16" radius.

But please forget everything you heard on that Studio 15 clip. It is not representative for that amp and if any of mine sounded that thin, I would throw them out. I see that for the whole clip, the master never goes past 3. When used right, You'd be surprised how much the Studio 15 can sound like a Fender with its dual 6V6 power amp. It sounds more like a seriously gained up Deluxe than the typical British roar. I may keep the TriAxis, which actually houses some better Fender sounds than the Hot Rod Deville.

Last thing worth mentioning is that the Studio 15's are the most responsive amps I have ever had. I don't even have to work the volume knobs on my Les Paul which was loaded with T-Tops (not very powerful at all as far as humbuckers go) and the Tele when it had Duncans. Just varying the way I'm digging in with the pick would give me nearly all the clean and dirty sounds I need.

Well, I've read through this for the first time, and I'm totally impressed with how helpful Don Mare is. I'd seriously consider his pickups next time I need something. :)

The powerful output of the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster Bridge is perfect for me. I like the tone of the raunchy mids enough as well, but it just lacks the complex and harmonic overtones that give a good pickups soul and character.

Duncan's Vintage Rhythm Neck has a nice tone, but again no harmonic overtones that make the sound come alive. A bit like the difference between a real piano and a digital keyboard. Also, it's way too weak to work with the Broadcaster.

The Fender (Custom Shop) Twisted Tele is one of the coolest clean souds I have ever heard from a Tele neck. However, I couldn't stand the shrill, nasty and metallic overtones I got when using the Twisted Tele pickup on a dirty amp. An icepick to the ears !

I don't believe your problem can be solved by pickups, you've already tried some of the best on the planet. You can keep chasing something elusive by going from one pickup maker to another, but your expectations are unrealistic.

Complex and harmonic overtones, soul and character, icepick. From the terms you use, it seem like you've been reading too many internet posts about the "magic" of this pickup or another. It doesn't exist. Keep expecting it and you'll likely keep being disappointed.

Maybe you need a different guitar.

I don't believe your problem can be solved by pickups, you've already tried some of the best on the planet. You can keep chasing something elusive by going from one pickup maker to another, but your expectations are unrealistic.

Complex and harmonic overtones, soul and character, icepick. From the terms you use, it seem like you've been reading too many internet posts about the "magic" of this pickup or another. It doesn't exist. Keep expecting it and you'll likely keep being disappointed.

Maybe you need a different guitar.

+1000 reality check

I'm interested as to what type of music are you playing that you're using your Tele on...
Maybe "Telenator" is right. (Did I just really say that?) :oops:

:cool:

What's now maybe my best parts guitar went through three necks and countless pickups before I dialed it in. It sounded great acoustically in all its configurations, but it varied wildly when amplified -- often sounding thin and uninspiring just as you describe. It sounds like Don has nailed your general preference. If his pickups don't get you the whole way there another set probably won't either. If that's the case, swap a neck or body from another guitar and see where that gets you.

It's crazy: we think of bodies as guitars, but more often than not a neck change has a more profound impact on the sound of a guitar. Take the collective knowledge of the board to heart. Those all are fine pickups, and if you insist it's not the amp or your ears, there's one variable left.

I'm scratching my head here, wondering where to go next.
You have a good guitar, you have tried some of what we consider to be the best pickups.

My stratoclone feels good and sounds good acoustically but something is missing when plugged it, it's been through a number of pickups too, the good ones hardly any improvement over the cheapo Aria ceramics.
My jazzbox and Artcore semi should sound similar because they have similar pickups, but don't - chalk and cheese.

I may have alluded to the Barden in my AmSer. Excellent pickup but can be clinical, too hifi, the Baja's Broadcaster scores here for raunch.

I believe you are using a boutique super champ clone of some sort, sounds nice but have you tried any other amps? How many fx pedals in the chain? - beware the tone sucker, ditch the lot? I'm thinking, like I've got a heavily modded EVJh, sounds nice too, but I've got five others that sound much better. Ok, it got a master and a tone added but it's 5W into a 8-in 60s Elac, so its reasonably champ-like imo, and, nah - it don't make the tele sing.

Interesting discussion.

Half the fun for me is trying new combinations of pick ups, caps, pots, necks, etc. and I also find my tonal preferences change from time-to-time.

It also depends on the amp, how loud I can play and what I'm playing.

I recently discovered that my ideal tone existed in one of my guitars. Read about it here (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pickups/248763-lawrence-keystones-uk-shipping-price-hike-good-similar-sounding-alternative.html#post2951405).

I hadn't played that guitar for sometime because of installation problems but when I did - at gig volumes - I was blown away.

Reading through the thread, I believe it's your amp. All the pick ups you've mentioned should do the job, but only your ears can decide.

Keep us up to date with developments.

:smile: Peter

I don't believe your problem can be solved by pickups, you've already tried some of the best on the planet.By that theory, I should stay away from Peavey completely then. I don't like their 5150, so everything else must be rubbish as well ? I never liked the amplifiers of the VOX Ac50 Classic Plus series, then I must hate my hand wired AC15 ?
Don winds many different sets and just one of those sets didn't work for me. That shouldn't mean everything the good man does is wrong for me.


From the terms you use, it seem like you've been reading too many internet posts about the "magic" of this pickup or another.Only trying to find words to describe a tone and feeling. That's hard enough as it is already and then I have to do it in English as well, which is only my third language.


your expectations are unrealistic.Is it really unrealistic for a bridge pickups to have a decent output, ample mids and nice bit of harmonic content ? Is it really impossible to have a set where I don't have to lower the bridge pickup way down below the sweet spot and the neck pickup raised way above the sweet spot to get the difference in volume between the two as small as possible ? (and still not ideal)





I'm interested as to what type of music are you playing that you're using your Tele on...This...I was thinking about using my Tele mostly for bluesy rock or perhaps some occasional contemporary guitar pop/rock.





What's now maybe my best parts guitar went through three necks and countless pickups before I dialed it in. It sounded great acoustically in all its configurations, but it varied wildly when amplified -- often sounding thin and uninspiring just as you describe. It sounds like Don has nailed your general preference. If his pickups don't get you the whole way there another set probably won't either. If that's the case, swap a neck or body from another guitar and see where that gets you.

It's crazy: we think of bodies as guitars, but more often than not a neck change has a more profound impact on the sound of a guitar. Take the collective knowledge of the board to heart. Those all are fine pickups, and if you insist it's not the amp or your ears, there's one variable left.Interesting theory. But if my Tele was a dead sounding sorry excuse for a guitar, then I wouldn't have all these wonderful harmonics leaping off the fingerboard with the Mares. I got to hand Don that, these are some of the most harmonically rich pickups I have ever played. Sadly, the output, the tone and the balance in volume between the two pickups were not quite what I was looking for. Maybe I'll have better luck with his next recommendations.





I believe you are using a boutique super champ clone of some sort, sounds nice but have you tried any other amps?Personally, I wouldn't want to compare the Studio 15 to a Fender Super Champ at all.While the Studio 15's get the most use with the Tele, I have a wide variaty of amps at my disposal from my gear-hoarding days and I'm not happy with my Tele on any of them. The better amps in my collection include various Marshall JCM800's (all split channel versions) that aren't fond of single coils. Then there are a Handwired VOX AC15 and Mesa/Boogie F-30 that both might move to a new owner this weekend. The last traditional amp worth mentioning is a worn down Fender Hot Rod Deville.
I also have a couple of racks from my gigging days. One is build around the Marshall JMP-1 preamp, the other around Mesa/Boogie TriAxis preamp.


How many fx pedals in the chain? - beware the tone sucker, ditch the lot?I usually don't use any pedals at all with the Studio 15s. If I need more volume, I grab a Lehle A/B/Y and use it on Y-mode so I can use both of them. If I have to play solos, I sometimes use a bit of a clean boost coming from a either a booster that a buddy made for me or slightly modified clone of a Klon Centaur. I opted for germanium diodes with a much lower forward voltage drop than was specified on the schematic of a reverse engineered pedal that I used to build my clone. Not much of a big deal, since I don't use it as a dirt box anyway. Before you ask about my cables, I use Klotz.


I'm scratching my head here, wondering where to go next.Well, there is a reason why I asked for pickup advice in the "Just Pickups" section. ;)





Reading through the thread, I believe it's your amp.Thank you, Peter, but I think you may have missed the bits where I mentioned a part of my collection of amplifiers. Since the problems persist on all of those amplifiers, I scratched those from the list of possible culprits.

I would like to thank each and every one of you very much for your replies !

Some more bits and pieces will be on their way to me soon so I can put my Tele back together.
In 2011, I will fire it up with a fresh set of Mares. I'll return then and post all about it.

Goodbye for now, have a great holiday season and a toneful 2011 !


http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/santa_with_tele.jpg

By that theory, I should stay away from Peavey completely then. I don't like their 5150, so everything else must be rubbish as well ? I never liked the amplifiers of the VOX Ac50 Classic Plus series, then I must hate my hand wired AC15 ?
Don winds many different sets and just one of those sets didn't work for me. That shouldn't mean everything the good man does is wrong for me.


Only trying to find words to describe a tone and feeling. That's hard enough as it is already and then I have to do it in English as well, which is only my third language.


Is it really unrealistic for a bridge pickups to have a decent output, ample mids and nice bit of harmonic content ? Is it really impossible to have a set where I don't have to lower the bridge pickup way down below the sweet spot and the neck pickup raised way above the sweet spot to get the difference in volume between the two as small as possible ? (and still not ideal)





This...





Interesting theory. But if my Tele was a dead sounding sorry excuse for a guitar, then I wouldn't have all these wonderful harmonics leaping off the fingerboard with the Mares. I got to hand Don that, these are some of the most harmonically rich pickups I have ever played. Sadly, the output, the tone and the balance in volume between the two pickups were not quite what I was looking for. Maybe I'll have better luck with his next recommendations.





Personally, I wouldn't want to compare the Studio 15 to a Fender Super Champ at all.


I usually don't use any pedals at all with the Studio 15s. If I need more volume, I grab a Lehle A/B/Y and use it on Y-mode so I can use both of them. If I have to play solos, I sometimes use a bit of a clean boost coming from a either a booster that a buddy made for me or slightly modified clone of a Klon Centaur. I opted for germanium diodes with a much lower forward voltage drop than was specified on the schematic of a reverse engineered pedal that I used to build my clone. Not much of a big deal, since I don't use it as a dirt box anyway. Before you ask about my cables, I use Klotz.


Well, there is a reason why I asked for pickup advice in the "Just Pickups" section. ;)





Thank you, Peter, but I think you may have missed the bits where I mentioned a part of my collection of amplifiers. Since the problems persist on all of those amplifiers, I scratched those from the list of possible culprits.
Well, it would appear that you already know everything, and that any suggestions any of us offer would be of no use whatsoever. Sorry that none of us could help you. Good luck.

What I'd do now is take your guitar to a good shop and try out all their teles (in a practice room if possible) with an amp like any of yours (even take your own amp).

Do this because all teles are not alike.

I'm thinking your problem is now down to the timber, sometimes it looks good and feels good but it just don't sound good. Sometimes the acoustic sound is a good indicator, other times not. For me, when you stroke the strings on a tele, the whole lot should vibrate like a purring cat, neck and body.

Random thought: have you tried the neck heel fitting trick - slacken the neck screws (strings at concert) and drop the tele bottom first into the carpet (a solid thump), re-tighten screws firm* to ensure a solidly fitted neck.

* tight but not too tight.

Thank you, Peter, but I think you may have missed the bits where I mentioned a part of my collection of amplifiers. Since the problems persist on all of those amplifiers, I scratched those from the list of possible culprits.

You're right. I was under the impression that you were only using a Marshall Studio 15.

One final thought. Why not try a short scale neck? Then if it doesn't work out the whole thing will fit in the bin better!

Only teasing. :lol:

Your ears will tell you when you've found the right tone / pick ups.

:smile: Peter

I think the real problem is in your attitude... I mean you ask for advice, then when you get the best advice you could get from the people here including Don himself, you act like we are wrong.. If you dont like the answers dont ask the question. I think you are looking for the elusive holy grail pickup that does not exist. Anytime you get pickups you get good and bad things about them, when the GOOD way exceed the bad you know you have found the right one. Also when people are just trying to help and give you a suggestion of something else it could be dont give the better then you response of, I know its not that I wouldnt b asking this question if I didnt KNOW its the pickups. Maybe next time just listen and dont b soooo quick to quote everyone with a kinda bad attitude. I think it comes down to a little bit of tryin to get a tele to sound not like a tele. Go back to your Les Paul and leave the teles and the Mares to us...

gZyXmksnW3w

Here's the amp of choice, and by chance the clip is featuring a Tele.. ( but pickups were not _named_)

All the above mentioned pickups would sound great thru a Clean Fender with Reverb, but this Marshall Studio 15 requires some considerations...

IMHO a 10k wire 43 and a taller chassis 43' neck ( not the 55' I previously suggested) would be the ideal pickup set to get the full potential..
that amp calls for powerful pickups but yet they should still be very clear ~ otherwise it will muddle up this cool (rare) little amp. :wink:

I couldn't help thinking while reading those considerations are purely subjective

My main set includes a custom shop tele maple fretboard with DOn's S-telly neck and an Abygael Ybarra handwound broadcaster pickup for the bridge into a Marshall studio 15 almost stock (no treble cap) with NOS tubes (mullard, telefunken and a couple of sylvania)

The sound I get from this is amazing ! I cannot thank Don enough for the S-telly, tremendous work !
but as we say ; whatever floats your boat ...

Hello folks. My first post in years... This forum is priceless. Having been a long time tinkerer i would like to share this with you: learning to be happy with what you´ve got is also part of the fun.
And I´m aware this is the Just pickups forum.