Calling all Luthiers.... I need help, please?

Okay, so my guitar teacher gives me an old neck of his to work on. It's a Warmoth, maple fingerboard, that he wants refretted with jumbo frets. He knows I'm getting into repair, so he thought it would be a good project for me. I accept the offer, get it refretted, and all is good...

...until I start working on the nut. There was no nut in the neck when he gave it to me. I don't know what nut was in it before, but the nut seat is wonky and not even square. Not to mention, it's down through the fretboard on the bass side, and almost through the fretboard on the treble side. I've taken measurements on the inside of the nut slot, and I don't even know how to go about making a nut for this thing. I don't think Warmoth would have let a neck out of the factory like this, so my thought is that someone (the owner or someone else) had previously installed a new nut.

The bottom of the seat on the treble side measures .0126", and the top of the nut seat measures 0.144"

The bass side measures 0.131 on the bottom of the seat, and 0.143 on the top.

A stock Strat type bone blank is a little too big for the bottom, but there's a gap at the top when it's flush against the fingerboard.

Is there any way I can fill the bottom of the nut seat with something, and then file it square?

I just don't know what to do. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I would take a file or scraper and flatten the bottom. Doesn't have to be level. Place a nut blank in the slot, draw lines for the sides, and use some feeler gauges to measure height of the nut. Then you mark the fret locations, and file.

Standard nut making procedure.

you can always start over by totally filling the nut slot. and then recut it properly .

Danielle

Thanks Colt! I'm going to have to get some bigger bone blanks. The Fender style blanks are too small and wobble in the slot.

Danielle, what would you fill it with?

Well I'm not a Luther, but I did play one on TV...
http://tagsgf.com/wp-content/uploads/Jerry-Van-Dyke.jpg



Oh, you said luthier... well I'm not one of those either but I've built a lot of guitars... :wink:

I would true up the bottom of the nut slot and make a new nut to fit.

I thought about using a bastard file, that only cuts on the sides so I can true up the back side. I don't really want to remove any more wood from the bottom of the slot.

I guess I'll see what kind of a nut I can cut with the measurements that I have.

I'd love to just fill it in and cut a new slot, or fill it halfway so the nut doesn't have to be so big. I don't think wood filler would be sufficient. The maple is too hard, and wood filler can be kind of crumbly. If anything I would think epoxy would be the best option.

...but all of the sounds like more work than it's worth.

Maybe it's just my OCD and wanting it to be perfect. Okay... off to do some nut sanding!

I..Then you mark the fret locations, ...

Standard nut making procedure.


Huh? did you mean string locations?

If pictures clarify it...

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/tele2000/140.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/tele2000/139.jpg

The slanted back side and the rounded bottom in the back just kills me. Not to mention the lack of fretboard on the bottom of the slot.

Please tell me if I'm worrying about nothing.

Holy Crap...someone went to town on the slot!

Huh? did you mean string locations?

Yeah string locations.

Yeah, that's why I don't really want to touch the bottom of the slot

If pictures clarify it...

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/tele2000/140.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/tele2000/139.jpg

The slanted back side and the rounded bottom in the back just kills me. Not to mention the lack of fretboard on the bottom of the slot.

Please tell me if I'm worrying about nothing.

Thats deeper than normal, but its not going to hurt anything being that deep. If you don't have any bone wide enough to go in there, corian makes a great nut as well.

I ordered some 3/16" bone blanks today, and I have some 3/16" micarta blanks, so I'm going to see what I can do with it, as is, for now.

You could go to the local meat counter and get a beef bone and boil it for ten minutes and then hacksaw a piece , then file and sand it to fit .Anyways thats what i did when i was stuck for time and could'nt wait for and order to come in. (You still need to square up the slot though).

I'm not worried about the time. I live in Ohio, so I always get parts/tools the very next day from Stew-Mac.

I just don't want to get into the actual neck. The thought of it makes me ill... that's why I had contemplated filling it all or partially so I wouldn't have to go that far just to true up the bottom.

Get a big enough piece of bone to fit the slot and go for it. No need to get into the actual neck. A piece of bone, a bench grinder, and some hobbyist files and your thoughtful labor will make a nut to fit. In fact, you can even make a nut to fit that uneven slot. Just takes a good eye, due care and test fitting as you go.

Thanks hackworth. I wanted to give the micarta a shot so I know "sort of" what I'm doing and the actual shape it needs.

Last night I made a "make shift" template by using a piece of aluminum foil, making sure it was flat in the bottom of the seat and the walls. I need the thicker foil for better results. I just wanted to get an idea of the basic shape since it's not exactly square.

Hmmm... a bench grinder. I was looking at belt/disc sanders. Sanding it all by hand hurts after a while :)

I had this problem before on a used Strat neck. Someone made a home-made brass nut ala Malmsteen and didn't want to fit the material to existing nut slot. So they made the slot fit the brass. Crazy! Looks almost like your problem.

I fixed it by a trip to the local WoodCraft store and I scored a small pice of Sugar Maple / Rock Maple. I went though their bin of small scraps until I saw a pice of Rock Maple that was close in color and had the grain going in the right direction.

I measured and cut a filler (making sure the grain was going the correct direction) for the over sized nut slot so that it was snug but wasn't too tight. I used a water activated epoxy (Gorilla Glue) to set the filler pice in. The new filler I made out of the Rock Maple extend above the fret board and slightly past the neck on the sides. After the epoxy cured and was fully dry, I used a razor blade to scrap off the foam out from the glue (do this after it dries). Then I filed down the filler close to the fret board radius and used my Stew Mac radius sanding block to finish it. Sanded the sides by hand.

Lastly I measured and cut the new nut slot (now at proper width & depth) using my nut slot file and made a new nut to Fender spec. I had to refinish the neck any way so the Rock Maple filler repair blended to the original neck just fine. I dyed the neck before I lacquered it. Almost an invisible repair and it's strong. The advantage now is that should the neck ever need a new nut it will be an easy fix.

Mike R

The slot's already that deep (like Bill Murray said to John Candy in Stripes, "You're already dirty.") so it's not a crime at this point to true it up. You could carefully use a 1/8" chisel if you have one or a file. Sure, be careful not to take anything from the front wall on fretboard side, since that determines your intonation, but you can square up the back edge. That will make it easier to shape a new nut to fit. The goal is to have a solid seating for the nut in the neck wood, and I wouldn't use any filler unless you carefully fill and recut with the same type of wood (the damage doesn't seem bad enough to warrant that, though). I use a stationary belt sander on the nut blank until I get close, then I use a piece of sandpaper against a scrap of flat granite. That helps me to sand off too much in a lot less time than it used to. BTW Tusq nut blanks won't be fat enough here.

Wow, thanks Mike! That sounds like something I'd be interested in doing. I'd feel a lot better about it. There's a Woodcraft here in my town. I'll have to take the trip over there and see what they have. I have a piece of scrap maple, but the grain doesn't quite match.

How long did that process take?

That's definitely a story I wanted to hear!!

Bench grinders are very inexpensive these days. IMHO, a bench grinder is best for thinning a bone nut. I take the safety covers off and hold the nut with pliers and press it against the broad side of the wheel. I also use my fingers. When the bone gets too hot to hold, I quit for a few seconds.

After thinning to fit the slot, I cut the height on a bandsaw. Then I shape it on the grinder. I leave it long so it hangs over the sides of the fret board. That gives more material to grip when I hand cut the slots with files. Once I get it close, I install it temporarily and cut the overhang off with a dremel abrasive cutting wheel. I slide the nut toward me so I don't get to close to the neck with my dremel Cutter. When its within a 16th of an inch, I use the broad face of the Dremel cutting wheel to smooth it to fit tight to the sides of the neck.

These guys in Ohio can get you a nut blank that will work. I bought about ten nut blanks and they are hard bone and excellent quality. http://www.guitarpartsandmore.com/

It took about an hour of trial and error fitting of the filler pice. I did have to square the old slot some so that I was dealing with true dimensions. Since it seems that you are measuring with a dial caliper this will allow for the snuggest fit. The Gorilla Glue is a water activated epoxy. I think TightBond would be OK too. I don't recommend CA here. Just remember that you want it snug but not tight if you are using something like Gorilla Glue. With Gorilla Glue, you wet both the slot and the filler pice. Then apply a light coat of glue to the slot and tap the filler in until it's seated. The reason why you don't want a tight dry fit is that the wood will swell slightly from the water used to activate the glue.

This is good and bad. It's good that from the swelling, the wood fibers will open slightly and wick in the glue. Also the Gorilla Glue will foam and expand. Only use a light coat or you will have more foam out to clean off. The bad is that if you made your filler to tight then it will be extremely tough to get it in. You shouldn't have to beat it in place.

If you use TightBond instead, then the filler can be a tighter fit. The idea here when it's all said and done is you want the repair to be strong and match the rest of the neck. Then you can sand and shape the repair till it's smooth and matches the radius and shape of the neck.

The rest of the work is just a normal nut instal. It's up to you. It is easier just to make an oversized nut also. The repair I did was for a paying customer. They wanted the old home made brass nut gone and it back to "stock". It's your call.

Mike R

Thanks for all of the info Mike and hackworth...

I'm weighing my options. I'm heading out tonight to get a belt/disc sander to make my life easier through this process. I have the bone blanks and the maple scrap, so I can try to cut both and see which way seems the best.