starting from scratch again with neck HB

Hola-
Trying to deal with the classic humbucker neck/single coil issue. I've tried a few things and haven't really been successful.

What I've got:
Rio Grande Genuine Texas HB (neck)
Rio Grande Single Coil (bridge)
push-pull vol pot to split hb coils.

What I want to achieve:
I love the sound of these pickups individually, but I can't really get them to work as set. In other words, I need to eq the amp one way to sound good with the HB, and another way one for the bridge. Mid-song switches are basically impossible, and the HB dominates in all settings (full HB + bridge sounds virtually identical to just full HB). You know, common tele neck hb bs here.

I'm looking for a combination of pots, switches, whatevers, that will help me achieve balance with the pickups, but also give me the 4 pickup positions...would be willing to go concentric pots if that would work.

Is it just this combo of pups won't work? Should I ditch the push-pull pot and just get the coil tap via a new switch?

Need some education people- I have searched the other threads in the forum, but am hoping someone out there has experience with either of these pups and this problem that might offer some sagely advice.

Thanks!

LarryPlayfair, howdy!

Have you thought about having separate volume pots for the SC and HB? Or perhaps a blend pot?

Good luck

Peter

Whenever you combine such mismatched pickups, the final setup is going to be a set of compromises. You just have to figure out which sounds are most important to you.

On my neckbucker guitar, I found that the best compromise was achieved by lowering the humbucker a little to decrease the output, keeping the bridge pickup as close to the strings as would allow for a good sound, and using different tone caps for each pickup (circuit below).

I ultimately decided that I didn't want to compromise, and set each pickup for its best tone. I don't use the pickups in combination anymore. When I want bridge pickup twang I play the bridge. When I want crunchy humbucker I use the neck. I often use a Bad Bob or compressor to boost the output when using the bridge pickup, and have an OCD set for slight volume boost and extra crunch for the 'bucker. That works better for me than trying to get the volume balanced.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/eryque/guitar/Tele-new-wiring.jpg

KokoTele offers one viable solution to an age old problem.

I find that the pickup choices make a big difference as well. In a Hum/single set-up I always opt for a bright articulate humbucker that will more closely match the sound type and character of the single coil bridge pickup. The Hot Rod Teles with the mini-humbucker in the neck position sound really good to me. The output difference is quite manageable and the sound is very good.

I also really like humbuckers with rod magnets as opposed to standard bar magnets. Rod magnet pickups like a Seymour Duncan Stag Mag with have a brighter, more tightly focused sound, (like the bridge pickup), and will often be a good match without compromise.

Hmm.. A blend pot is an interesting concept, though I was hoping to avoid have more controls than a normal tele setup (1 pup switch, two knobs). Would there be a way to achieve having an master vol, master tone and a blend with out drilling a third hole (ie, a concentric or a push-pull?)

You could do it but the guitar would a pain in the butt to use for live performance. At least for me. Myself and everyone I've ever known to have done these blend/phase/split/odd pickup selection mods on their guitars have all put them back to stock. Maybe it's just because we're all getting older.:lol:

I know you don't want to add more controls but I solved this with a volume/tone/tone set up. I dial my amp to have the EQ that's right for the neck humbucker and then roll off some treble on the bridge pickup using its own tone control on the guitar.

For me this is the perfect set up - in addition I get some nice sounds by having both pickups on at once and blending the tone pots in various ways.

It just needs a simple route from the rear to add a tone pot near the control plate. Alternatively, I guess you could add an extra pot under the pickguard somewhere so it can be returned to stock if needed.

I know you don't want to add more controls but I solved this with a volume/tone/tone set up. I dial my amp to have the EQ that's right for the neck humbucker and then roll off some treble on the bridge pickup using its own tone control on the guitar.

For me this is the perfect set up - in addition I get some nice sounds by having both pickups on at once and blending the tone pots in various ways.

It just needs a simple route from the rear to add a tone pot near the control plate. Alternatively, I guess you could add an extra pot under the pickguard somewhere so it can be returned to stock if needed.

that's interesting too...wouldn't a concentric tone pot work here?

If you're mainly using the neck humbucker to cut noise and don't want the extra boost that a humbucker traditionally gives you, you could try wiring it in parallel instead of in series.

that's interesting too...wouldn't a concentric tone pot work here?

Totally. It's an option that's very easy to forget, but always a great way to add controls without drilling new holes in the plate.

If you're mainly using the neck humbucker to cut noise and don't want the extra boost that a humbucker traditionally gives you, you could try wiring it in parallel instead of in series.

Good point! I love the sound of parallel humbuckers... some people don't.

Parallel will also be brighter, so you won't need to adjust the tone as much.

Good point! I love the sound of parallel humbuckers... some people don't.

Parallel will also be brighter, so you won't need to adjust the tone as much.

hmm...that seems like something worth trying. How do go about doing that? I assume that can be done with a 4-conductor HB?

With Dimarzio wire colors...

Series:
Red = hot
Black & White = connected together, but not connected to anything else.
Green = ground
Bare = ground

Parallel:
Red & White connected = hot
Green & Black connected = ground
Bare = ground

hmm...that seems like something worth trying. How do go about doing that? I assume that can be done with a 4-conductor HB?

Right. You run both hot leads together to the switch and both ground leads together to the ground.

For example, using a Seymour Duncan bucker (in "backwards" mode to be in phase with a Fender bridge pup), you've got:

Coil 1: Green/Red
Coil 2: White/Black

Series (normal) wiring is done by going Green to output, Black (and shield) to ground, then Red to White, which creates this circuit:

Output -> Green -> Coil 1 -> Red -> White -> Coil 2 -> Black -> Ground.

Typically to split the coil, SD tells you to run the Red/White pair to ground. (Truthfully, it only matters that the RED wire goes to ground, as that shorts out the circuit and makes the connections of the other coil redundant.)

Output -> Green -> Coil 1 -> Red -> Ground.

To run in parallel instead of serial, you want both coils to be running separately, just like when you are in a "quack" position with single coils.

To do this, run both Green & White to your output terminal (either by twisting them together or having them share a switch position) and run both red and black to your ground. This gives you:

Output -> Green -> Coil 1 -> Red -> Ground.
Output -> White -> Coil 2 -> Black -> Ground.

Does that make enough sense that you can figure it out for whatever 4-wire HB you happen to be using?

Oh, one more thing:

If it sounds bright, thin and weak, you've got one coil out of phase with the other. Swap one pair of wires around.

If it sounds fine, but becomes bright, thin, and weak when paired with another pickup, the whole thing is out of phase. Swap BOTH pairs of wires around. (Although, generally speaking when I combine a humbucker with a single-coil, I like to split the HB and use the coil that's RWRP relative to the other pup, creating yet another parallel humbucking position.)

Thanks guys. This sounds like a nice project all in all. It's been a while since I've messed with the wiring, but seems fairly doable.

Question: will the push-pul vol pot I have on there still work once I've changed to parallel?