Doubting Amp purchase

So I'm starting to doubt my amp purchase. I got a used fender supersonic 112 for a great price recently. It's a really loud booger. So I got an attenuator and took it down -12db. Decent house level now.

But I still fear that I got too big, too loud of an amp with the supersonic. Even though I got it for a great price and always loved the look and sound when I played one at GC but didn't take into account the house volume levels I'd have to be at. It doesn't like to be attenuated very much tho!

Also, I'm not happy with the JJ/Tesla re-tube the previous owner did and think it's biased too hot as well. I'm also not sure about the Celestion V30 speaker. So, I plugged my jensen C10R 10" from my super champ xd into my supersonic last night and really enjoyed the "fendery" tone I got. Just a little thin due to the 10" size I'm sure.

I have the opportunity to buy a Jensen Jet Electric Lightning 12" speaker for a good deal. What kind of tone do you think the Lightning will provide? Is it really a more "heavy metal" sound? I'm really wanting to get a more vintage sound out of my supersonic.

I've also thought about a re-tube to TAD 6L6 WGC, TungSol 12AX7, JAN Phillips 5751 for Input, PI, Drive, Reverb & and Mullards for the effects loop plus rebias to factory 32mv.


So all this led me to playing a Fender blues junior [EDIT: wrong about "with an upgraded jensen speaker", it's stock fender "special design"]. It really was the sound I was looking for. Bluesy, Jimi/SRV sound when cranked but touch sensitive. But I'm having trouble making the decision to pull the trigger on another amp until I'm sure about my current one. I found a LE Blonde/Oxblood version with an upgraded Jensen C10R speaker like the princeton has. Great sound without attenuation, clean and clear fender tone at reasonable levels, lots of nice gain too when pushed.

Although, I like to use pedals, tubescreamer for blues overdrive, delay, chorus, phase90, etc. and they are very sensitive to guitar volume, so I can't just crank the amp and then adjust with my onboard volume as if I was just going guitar to amp.*Plus I love the effects loop with the supersonic.

I do not have the opportunity to test both amps side by side, unfortunately.

What should I do? Is the SuperSonic an amp that will do it all (i use the vibrolux setting exclusively) and am I'm driving myself crazy thinking I need a smaller lower wattage amp when it is doing just fine? How do you make these decisions when you can't play them all for extended period with your own equipment?

I guess the question(s) is:
Would I be any happier with a blues junior as opposed to my supersonic with attenuator at house level?

Will it all be/sound same and I should leave well enough alone!?

Will a speaker change and re-tube to tungsol/mullard/JAN phillips/TAD 6L6, plus rebias to factory allow my Supersonic to sound the best it can and be the better deal in the long run?

Will a speaker change and re-tube to tungsol/mullard/JAN phillips/TAD 6L6, plus rebias to factory allow my Supersonic to sound the best it can and be the better deal in the long run?

I think it will help a lot.

Tubes are like one notch up or down on the tone controls. I doubt that they will make all that much difference. I will say, however, that the JJ 12AX7s have a harder, crisper sound than the reissue Mullards and such. A lower-gain tube like the 5751 in V1 will soften the punch somewhat, too. So will a 12AT7 in the phase inverter. I rather like the JJ output tubes.

For a classic Fender sound, you need a classic Fender speaker. The Jet is for metal, right? I'd go for one of the cleaner Eminence speakers if it were mine, or a Weber 12F150 to get a better Jensen than Jensen tone.

I'm not a fan of attenuators on the output, although it's one way to get the job done. You could put a volume box in the effects loop as an alternative.

Sure.Tweak the Supersonic to its optimum,and if you can get to where a big Fender amp is in its true element-the stage,then you can have some fun with all that horsepower.

For home applications IMO something like a Pod with headphone capability and no speaker(s) will probably liberate your inner rock star without annoying your loved ones.Or the neighbors.

Thanks all. I've asked the shop owner some questions about the speaker. He is a custom amp builder and installed it in an amp that sold but the buyer requested speaker change. The deal is 1/3rd the price of new but if it's not the right speaker for me, it's not! I may cancel the deal.

I'll check out the webers, never been a big fan of eminence tho. Tried the ragin cajun before in my superchamp and didn't like it. May keep the V30 and try a tube change/rebias...

of course, all this is crazy if just leaving it alone, selling it and buying the blues jr. will get me more of what I need.

ugh. I just don't know how to make this decision, which direction to go. I love the supersonic, it actually as it is, sounds great, but the chances of me doing stage volume is probably slim...but who knows what will happen and then i'll need the power.

Eminence makes a huge range of speakers that basically give you limitless options. Go to their website and listen to the sound samples, they did a good job and are fairly accurate IMO.

The V30 is a great speaker that can't deliver the sound you hear in your head-so-
+1 on the Jensen/J clone speaker because it appears you really like this amp. Less efficient old school alnicos could peel a tad off the volume on top as well.

If you gig/play louder than at-home practice level, then you may want to make sure you've put the V30 through its paces before shelling out for another speaker (sez the frugal Yankee).

Good luck!

I guess someone has to say this: If the BJ gets you more of what you want, sell the SS and buy a BJ. No sense in dumping more money, and time, into the SS if that's where you'll probably end up anyway.

The amp is a 2006, i feel pretty certain the V30 is opened up/broken in already and sounds better than the ones new at GC.

I think I'm going to hold off on the Jensen Jet. It seems that many here are right, it's a speaker made for loud and agressive and I'm looking for a vintage sound.

I've listened to samples on Jensentone.com and the Eminence site. It's just so hard to tell what's going to sound like what really.

I trust BillM about tubes not making that much difference tone wise but I would like to try using the JAN Phillips 5751s in input, drive channels to see if I can take a little volume out of the SS.

I guess the biggest concern of all is that I would regret not having the SuperSonic if I got rid of it and I can't own yet another amp right now. :(

Trade for a 22w version if you really like the tone you get.

I guess someone has to say this: If the BJ gets you more of what you want, sell the SS and buy a BJ. No sense in dumping more money, and time, into the SS if that's where you'll probably end up anyway.

Thanks, noted! As said in my last post, I guess my main concern is regret. I got the SS for a deal. I may just deal with it. Do little to it as it is, enjoy it and someday in the future pickup a BJ.

...Weber 12F150 to get a better Jensen than Jensen tone.

Billm,
is it okay to use this 50watt speaker with a 60watt amp?

I guess the biggest concern of all is that I would regret not having the SuperSonic if I got rid of it and I can't own yet another amp right now. :(

I have yet to play one, but I have heard from many that this is indeed a great amp. Many of us here have felt the hard regret of selling an amp or gear, and I don't wish that feeling upon anyone. If you are having serious reservations, then you should hold off. Buying a speaker, tubes, etc. is a whole lot less painful than kicking yourself over selling a good amp you wishyou had back. I'd give it some time, and make sure you really want that blues jr. before you sell it. Another thought is in this economy I have seen a TON of used blues jr's going for 300 or less...maybe you can save up and get it in addition! :cool: A man can never have too many amps.

I like your thinking Ruby!

if you got a good deal- then sell it and put the money into a deluxe reverb
sounds like you bought too much amp
trust me i have been there

I agree with brokenarrow5. You said you want a classic Fender tone. I don't own, nor have I ever played through a BJ but I would much prefer a Deluxe Reverb (silverface or reissue) for the classic Fender tone. I would not dump any money into your superSonic unless you are sure about keeping it. I would not be concerned about enough horsepower for stage volume since most amps are miked anyway. A Deluxe Reverb will put out enough stage volume. In fact, our sound guy keeps telling me mine is too loud and I barely have it set on 4 or 5. I'm going to try an attenuator.

That's true. A friend plays in country/rock band, uses his DRRI unmic'd and gets almost too much volume! I should have thougth about that too.

I admit, my vanity got in the way of my tone, dammit! I fell for the blonde/oxblood and those sexy kickback legs!! :)

I think after all this talk today and good advice all around, that I'm going to keep the SS, put in some new tubes, speaker and leave it for what it is. A great versatile LOUD LOUD LOUD amp. Then later, I'll save up to buy something else as well. Who knows what my future holds and what kind of gigs I may play someday.

The attenuator I use is called a powerplug by recycledsound.net It was only $80 and knocks down -12db, still sounds pretty good and allowed me to over triple my volume knob from .75 to over 3 now! The SS really starts "toning" up about 4 tho. When the wife and kids are away, I play there all the time and love this amp! Change the speaker and tubes (the JAN Phillips I hear in drive will smooth it out too!) and bob's your uncle, fanny's your aunt!

Volume-wise there's at most a 3db difference between the Supersonic 112/V30 and a Blues Jr: although the supersonic puts out about triple the wattage (doubtful, but say +4.5db) its speaker is less sensitive. The BJr has a master volume, but as Billm pointed out a volume box in the effects loop will do the same thing. Going with a lower-efficiency speaker would make the same difference in volume as changing amps, and have the most pronounced effect in shaping the tone.

Tube-wise I'd agree with the opinion that JJ's tubes tend to sound a little more hard-edged modern rock than vintage. That said I still think they're among the best of new tubes. If sticking with the Vibrolux mode I'd only try changing V2 and *maybe* play with V4 and V5. I'm a short-bottle fan so the TAD 6L6WGCs might also find their way in if I had the money to throw around.

I'd say stick with the Supersonic. $150 for a speaker, volume box and a couple preamp tubes (with shipping) is a lot cheaper and more reversible than selling/trading for another amp.

-Laird

Most 6L6 amps are loud and the BJ is fairly quiet for a 15W.

Personally I'd avoid TAD 6L6GC in favour of GE JAN 6L6WGB(5881) or Sovtek 6L6WXT+
The JJ ECC83S (not JJ ECC803S) is a good low noise Telefunken ECC803 clone for V1, as are most but not all Mullard clones for the rest. I recently tested some of these against genuine Mullards and found that with a little tweaking of controls I could get the same sounds.

Using a low gain valve can result in a very bland sound.

However I think your main problem is the nasty Vintage30, a very harsh speaker, try something less mean.

And do put a master volume in the FX loop.
It's the only way to achieve parlour level without destroying the tone. The output 6L6 do not clip much so dropping their input level just drops the volume whilst allowing the pre-amp to be up to produce whatever tone you want. An attenuator leaves the output valves running full on, you get that tone and that's it. With a master volume you can run the pre-amp right up at low volume, and get a greater range of sounds.

If you really like the variety of sounds you can get out of the amp right now, keep it. Rather than use an attenuator or a volume pedal in the effects loop, another option if you are looking for dirt tones at lower bedroom volumes is to just use a good O/D pedal.

If you are not getting good sounds out of the amp, I would be a bit leery of doing lots of speaker and tube upgrades. What was a really good deal starts to quickly get real expensive and may not work. Rather than risk $$ for an uncertain outcome, you might be better off shopping for a good used amp that you confirm gives you just what you want. Sell the amp you have to get the amp that you are 100% certain will make you happy.

I have learned this lesson the hard way after buying different amps and then throwing good money after bad chasing various upgrades but never quite finding what I was looking for. If you are not opposed to using pedals, in my experience it's not so hard to dial in your tone at a variety of volume levels and with a variety of amps with help from a good pedal (like Fulltone OCD, for example). If you are plugging straight into the amp, then it has to be just the right amp if you have any hope of getting the sound you want at the volume level you want-- exactly the right tone stack, and exactly the right power tubes and speaker.

If you really like the variety of sounds you can get out of the amp right now, keep it. Rather than use an attenuator or a volume pedal in the effects loop, another option if you are looking for dirt tones at lower bedroom volumes is to just use a good O/D pedal.

If you are not getting good sounds out of the amp, I would be a bit leery of doing lots of speaker and tube upgrades. What was a really good deal starts to quickly get real expensive and may not work. Rather than risk $$ for an uncertain outcome, you might be better off shopping for a good used amp that you confirm gives you just what you want. Sell the amp you have to get the amp that you are 100% certain will make you happy.

I have learned this lesson the hard way after buying different amps and then throwing good money after bad chasing various upgrades but never quite finding what I was looking for. If you are not opposed to using pedals, in my experience it's not so hard to dial in your tone at a variety of volume levels and with a variety of amps with help from a good pedal (like Fulltone OCD, for example). If you are plugging straight into the amp, then it has to be just the right amp if you have any hope of getting the sound you want at the volume level you want-- exactly the right tone stack, and exactly the right power tubes and speaker.

+1. As far as the bolded part goes, all those upgrades can make the amp harder to sell or trade because it's no longer stock. At the very least, a potential buyer isn't likely to want to pay for your upgrades.

If you have a smaller store around you, usually you can go in and try plugging your amp in to other cabinets to see what the other varieties sound like. You could do that at a big box store too, but most don't have a big selection of speaker cabinets with anything other than harsher Celestions.

Well, I really do like the sound of the amp, even attenuated it's not bad and it's a reasonable volume at that point. But man, when you turn the attenuator off, wow, that amp has such sparkle! even at .75 on the volume dial! Even better at 3+ on the dial. The amp actually doesn't get that much louder after 5, just overdriven. I tested it with a 20ft cable on the outside of the room one day! This thing is awesome at stage levels for sure!

I think, after testing with some TungSols last night in various positions, that they are a slight improvement in tone attenuated but I think the best upgrade I can do is a new speaker.

I'm keeping the SS!! I'll get another amp later. I played a BJ at GC last night as well. Eh... I'll tell you what I love about the SS is that it's clean clean clean for a long long time, until about 4-5 on un-attenuated volume without breaking up! So it's perfect for my pedalboard. I have and use a Tubescreamer type pedal, along with Fuzz, Distortion, Delay, etc.

Also, that BJ is a noisy little booger! Even unattenuated my SS is only a very slight hiss, no buzz, even at 4-5 unattenuated volume! It's only noisy on the burn channel at high volume.

I think for the deal on it I got, It's a keeper. I still have my SuperChamp XD and my wife has a VibroChamp as well. I'll just have to start playing those more when the family is home for practice. But after all that I've read and done in the past two days....

I'm keeping my SS!!

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR POSTS!

Those 2x12 6L6 amps are loud (my Epi BC30 is a similar amp), they will go clean from 0 to 11. But the drive channel lacks grit unless you raise the volume. Gigging, we have to keep it reined in or it will drown the entire band, even though they also have serious amps too. That's why I added a master volume before the PI (the BC30 lacks an FX loop), without which it was unusable at home. With that added it becomes apparent that even the clean channel has regions where it comes on song better then squeaking along at 0.25. The tone is all in the pre-amp stages, the tone change variation with volume of the output stage doesn't become apparent until you get it cranked right up high.

Have you checked out the new SuperSonic 22? It might be what you're after, though it may also be hard to find one used at this point.

Here's a fairly lengthy demo by Jack Black's doppleganger:

MQcVYgu2UOo

So, I will doubt no more! I just bought a Weber C12B from a fellow TDPRI'r. I think the British component of that build will help to tame the SS's penchant for treble and the rest of the C12N experience will get me the sound I crave!

Next will be a few new tubes. I'll leave a few of the JJs for now and just play with PI, drive and input.

Went to a jam session the other day tho, and it performed admirably, so much so that each of the guys were asking me about it and complimenting me on how good it sounded with each style I played!

"Went to a jam session the other day tho, and it performed admirably, so much so that each of the guys were asking me about it and complimenting me on how good it sounded with each style I played!"

I think you are starting to remember why you got the SS in the first place...versatility achieved with great sounds is the core of this design, and this amp is enabling you to fill those shoes. Enjoy!

Didn't read all the post's so maybe it's been said already but the V30 is NOT the speaker you want for home volume playing.
That speaker needs to be pushed into submission to sound it's best.
That is why alot of "pro's" use it for giging. That and it cuts great in the mix.

If your looking to get that fender chime at bedroom volumes you might want to checkout Weber's sig series.

Tele Salivas: Thanks, I'm hoping to really enjoy it and will enjoy the process of slowly adding to it to make it all that it can be!

Bruce123: Well, I was definitely impressed by the Weber Chicago 12 but I'm saving $80 buying a used Weber C12B Blue Bulldog. It's broken in and sounds like it will be a great sound for me. We'll see, hope to have it in next week.

Just some thoughts on the Jensen Electric Lightning. I won one of these at an amp show here in LA last year. Saying it is for metal music only is a little misleading. I actually put this one in a Blues Junior and it sounded amazing. Nice tight bottom end a small amount of edge tone around 2k. But overall a very nice improvement. I then put it in a Deluxe reverb and was amazed that it sounded different i.e. more rounded in the mids and less edge. Overall it has a nice clarity across the spectrum and is very clean sounding, accentuating the string sound of a tele on the lower strings. I think it is a nice replacement for a standard Jensen with slightly more upper midrange and less of a woolly low end.

Middleman: Thanks for that. I've already bought the Weber now but if I'd known this saturday I would have picked up the barely used Jensen Electric Lightning for $60! The guy that has it is recycledsound.net. I believe he still has it!

Got the Weber C12B speaker in last night. Whew! finally this amp is starting to sound the way I want. It's still loud but WOW what a difference. I can see the V30 being a great speaker for this amp if you could keep the volume up at 5 and up for stage use, you'd need those heavy mids to balance the sound out, but at my levels, the Weber is perfect. Gorgeous lows, scooped mids, tamed treble. My amp growls just right now.

Next up, tubes!

I think you are on the right track.
I think you feel it too, based on your sequence of posts.

Lots of mulling over the details is always good.
It feels like (it felt to me) like naivety and "being in the dark", but you're considering and working thru the details

1) Tweaking the details of an amp you own always enlightens you.
(If it doesn't work out, you've proven to yourself that the amp is not for you. And maybe you can transfer tweak mat'ls (tubes, speakers) to another amp)

(but there's also a point to: "if you're sure the amp isn't for you then leverage the good deal by selling and moving closer to your target")

2) Tweaking and firmly establishing your preferences can cost money, but you can offset that by trying out stuff AMAP (Guit stores, guit shows, friends).
So..crank a DRRi (or whatever) if you get the chance..just to see.

3) Realize that the BJr comes with its own set of limitations. (can be offset by BillM mods, spkr changes, tubes, ext. cab...etc)

4) Don't just stick with new offerings either....there are still 60s & 70s Fender
amp deals (how 'bout a Bandmaster head? got a spkr cab.?) (all of them are very repairable and, when in good shape, very reliable) (saw a '66 BM go for $350 the other day)
'nuther example : not for you but, I need to sell a late 70's Super Six Reverb that was put into a head cab. It's the same circuit as a twin...100 watts..untra linear clean. I'd be extremely lucky to get more than 4 bills for it. gonna be a good deal.


blah, blah, blah.....you're on the right track

Thanks BluesOwl! Quite right!

And curse you for now giving me ideas of GAS! Vintage amp buying for fun! :) ha ha !