Coil Tapping. How exactly is this done?

Firstly I'll state that I am clear on the difference between coil splitting and coil tapping. I'm not asking about splitting. I realize the two terms often get confused.

So how exactly is a coil tap accomplshed. I was always under the impression that you basically remove a bit of the insulation and solder (tap) into the coil wire at a predetermined point or points. Correct?

Some questions:

1. How do you remove the insulation? Heat? Scraping?

2. How do you reinsulate the join?

3. Is the same type/gauge of wire that's used for the tap wire the same as what's used for the coil wire?

4. How does the tap wire exit from inside the coil?

If anyone can include pictures or photos of the process that would be most excellent. I've always been curious about tapping and the actual mechanics of how it is done. Lots of detail would be appreciated.

From my brief reading on it (I have a tapped Zhangbucker tele pickup on the way) I don't think it's a mod you do on an existing pickup - I think it needs to be wound as tapped from the start. Saying that, you may be able to unwind some wire install a tap and then rewind...or perhaps you could install a tap at the end of an existing pickup and wind some extra wire on top of that.

From my brief reading on it (I have a tapped Zhangbucker tele pickup on the way) I don't think it's a mod you do on an existing pickup - I think it needs to be wound as tapped from the start. Saying that, you may be able to unwind some wire install a tap and then rewind...or perhaps you could install a tap at the end of an existing pickup and wind some extra wire on top of that.

Yes, I realize it's not a 'mod' so to speak.

This is not something I'm wanting to do to a pickup I've got. I just want to understand how it's done simply out of curiosity.

And I hope you enjoy your Tele pickup from David. I think he does great work. I've been wanting to buy some of his pickups for quite awhile now. Someday I'll make it happen.:mrgreen:

Ok in short, I am winding a pickup, I wind to a pre determined turns count or DCR, I take a lead wire, wrap the coil wire a few times on to it, solder it, tape lightly, and continue to wind to the finish or to the next tap depending on how you want to do it, so you could have one tap at say 6K then another at 8K then the full coil at say 10K. I have done a few like this and I think Don Mare has done some too. Well every winder has probably done some lol.:lol:

Keep in mind this is the short version, there is more to it than this but I didn't have time to write out the whole process.

Thanks Benny. That helps a lot.

I've done a pretty thorough internet search and I can't find anywhere that gives a really detailed description on tapping.

Is there a site that anyone knows of that would give some of the details that Ben didn't have time to cover? I'd sure appreciate it.

In order to maintain continuity, you would need individual winds for each "tap". You could probably have a common ground but you would need individual outputs. If you had 3 taps, you'd have 3 grounds soldered together and 3 hots coming out. That's the only way I can think to do this. You would probably also need to use very thin wire in order to put three individual coils on a single field.

In order to maintain continuity, you would need individual winds for each "tap". You could probably have a common ground but you would need individual outputs. If you had 3 taps, you'd have 3 grounds soldered together and 3 hots coming out. That's the only way I can think to do this. You would probably also need to use very thin wire in order to put three individual coils on a single field.

I don't think so.

Here's my understanding.
The term 'tap' is used because, as Ben described, you are 'tapping into' the coil wire. There is only one coil wire, just like in a typical pickup, but you are short circuiting it (tapping it) at various points along it's length. The short circuits (taps) are engaged or disengaged using selector switches.

I don't think so.

Here's my understanding.
The term 'tap' is used because, as Ben described, you are 'tapping into' the coil wire. There is only one coil wire, just like in a typical pickup, but you are short circuiting it (tapping it) at various points along it's length. The short circuits (taps) are engaged or disengaged using selector switches.

Yes this is exactly right. You will still have 1 continuous wind just adding a tap to the wind at various points.

Yes 1 ground and 3 other wires if you have 2 taps and a full output of the coil. Hope this helps.

I wish Don Mare or someone that knows how to do this would chime in. Pickup wire is so damn thin, how do you make the connections and re-insulate???

Great thread! - my knowledge of this is non - existent so please excuse my "noob -ness".

Is it usual to just tap humbuckers or do single coils get a look in. The only 'coil tap' I have had in a guitar is with my old Ibanez AS200 but I have a Lace Hemi that I was thinking of putting in the neck of a tele with the idea of using the tapping option(s).

Yes this is exactly right. You will still have 1 continuous wind just adding a tap to the wind at various points.

Yes 1 ground and 3 other wires if you have 2 taps and a full output of the coil. Hope this helps.

Yes this helps a lot Ben. Thank you.


I wish Don Mare or someone that knows how to do this would chime in. Pickup wire is so damn thin, how do you make the connections and re-insulate???

Benbo is a pickup maker and he has already responded twice in this thread. In his first post he basically answers the questions you have posed.

It would be nice to get Don's take on things as well though, I agree. If I recall correctly Don offers tapping options on his pickups so my guess is he has a great wealth of experience with it.

I wish Don Mare or someone that knows how to do this would chime in. Pickup wire is so damn thin, how do you make the connections and re-insulate???

Ok when I do it and Maybe Don has a different approach but, When I get to where I want the tap, I reel off enough wire to work with, I take some fine sandpaper, I like 300 Grit wet/dry and sand off a small spot on the wire, I take the small lead and take the coil wire I just sanded and wrap it around the lead wire I then solder the connection, I put a piece of tape on the windings already on the coil and place the tapped part on it and tape over that, I make a few wraps by hand with the coil wire around the bobbin to seat the tap in place and start winding again.. Oh, I tape down the lead wire and run it to an eyelet I have put in the bobbin for it. It can make the coil have a small bump in it but after you wind a lot more turns it isn't very noticeable.

This is just how I do it and I am up for ideas if Don has a better way to do it.
Hey Don, you out there?

cool ....hi Ben . i never tried adding a tap but it is certainly interesting what would be better i wonder adding a couple extra eyelets or using something like a tiny humbucker lead wire i would say eyes

It's really very simple and benbo has it pretty much on target. On thing I would add is that on a Fender style pickup, you need 3 eyelets instead of two.

Say you want a 9k pickup with a tap at 6k. You wind it up to 6k, wrap the wire a few times through the extra eyelet, then bring it back to the coil and keep on winding to the 9k spec. The end.

But no, you can't add a tap to an existing pickup -- unless you wanted to just add turns to an existing pickup. But you couldn't take a 9k pickup and install a 6k tap, unless you unwrap it to 6k and then wind on 3k worth of wire again.

It's really very simple and benbo has it pretty much on target. On thing I would add is that on a Fender style pickup, you need 3 eyelets instead of two.

Say you want a 9k pickup with a tap at 6k. You wind it up to 6k, wrap the wire a few times through the extra eyelet, then bring it back to the coil and keep on winding to the 9k spec. The end.

But no, you can't add a tap to an existing pickup -- unless you wanted to just add turns to an existing pickup. But you couldn't take a 9k pickup and install a 6k tap, unless you unwrap it to 6k and then wind on 3k worth of wire again.

Thanks Zhang, I knew it was a better way of doing it. I do add the extra eyelets though, so with 2 taps you would have 4 eyelets, 1 for ground/start, 1 for the first tap, 1 for the second and 1 for the finish.

It's really very simple and benbo has it pretty much on target. On thing I would add is that on a Fender style pickup, you need 3 eyelets instead of two.

Say you want a 9k pickup with a tap at 6k. You wind it up to 6k, wrap the wire a few times through the extra eyelet, then bring it back to the coil and keep on winding to the 9k spec. The end.

But no, you can't add a tap to an existing pickup -- unless you wanted to just add turns to an existing pickup. But you couldn't take a 9k pickup and install a 6k tap, unless you unwrap it to 6k and then wind on 3k worth of wire again.

needless to say going from 6k to 9 k, would not be 42 gauge wire on a strat bobbin so have you ever tried 2 different size wire on 1 bobbin like 42 to 6k and then 43 or 44 to the 9k

needless to say going from 6k to 9 k, would not be 42 gauge wire on a strat bobbin so have you ever tried 2 different size wire on 1 bobbin like 42 to 6k and then 43 or 44 to the 9k

Great question. This is another thing I was wondering about, using 2 different wire gauges on the same wind.

42 would work for a tele for several taps but a strat its all about the glassy tone of 42 gauge wire and your only getting 8k or less on a bobbin

correct... u just can't reach into a finished pickup and add taps..
its only done as its being wound on the winder.

both methods that I know of were explained above.

DM

Thanks Don.

I'm not sure why there's been so many comments that tapping can't be done to a finished pickup because I was never confused about that to begin with.:lol: Nowhere in my OP did I even mention anything like this. I had to bring this up because I find it quite hilarious that this point has continued to be repeated by several people throughout this entire thread.:lol:

And ya wonder how rumours get started.

"Psssst.....hey did ya hear.....that boneyguy fella thought ya could tap a finished pickup.....whad a maroooon!!! Whad a nincompoop!!!" :lol:

But seriously folks, thanks to everyone who helped me get to the bottom of this coil tapping buisness. Much appreciated.

I re-read the OP and it was the _wording_ that caused one to think that u may have meant how to tap a finished pup is all.. if that many people thought u meant how to tap a finished pup... its the wording... "trust us":mrgreen:

Hi Don, How the heck are ya? Hows your health and life in general?

I re-read the OP and it was the _wording_ that caused one to think that u may have meant how to tap a finished pup is all.. if that many people thought u meant how to tap a finished pup... its the wording... "trust us":mrgreen:

Sure I trust ya Don.....sure I do.:mrgreen:

From inside my own brain I don't see it but then again there's lots of stuff in my brain that nobody should have to see. :lol:

Boneyguy, can I ask for what purpose you are wanting a tapped pup? I assume it's something like variability in bridge pickup "heat?" Are you doing this on a tele?

I figure since you brought it up I could ask.

dan

Boneyguy, can I ask for what purpose you are wanting a tapped pup? I assume it's something like variability in bridge pickup "heat?" Are you doing this on a tele?

I figure since you brought it up I could ask.

dan

I've got a 2 humbucker Tele which I love but I thought it might be nice to get more single coil-ish tones out of it.

I know I could simply split the humbuckers but I've never heard a split humbucker that sounds good to my ear. They always sound thin, brittle and wimpy.

So I was thinking about getting humbuckers with one of the coils tapped. Then I could get one full coil plus a bit of the second coil as well to beef up the tone.

For arguments sake let's say you had an 8k humbucker with each coil measuring 4k. If I had one coil tapped at the 2.5k point then when I flipped my selector switch I would have one full coil at 4k and one tapped coil at 2.5k for a total of 6.5k. It wouldn't sound entirely like a single coil of course but it would be much better than the wimpy 4k coil on it's own.

This is what I was thinking about.

needless to say going from 6k to 9 k, would not be 42 gauge wire on a strat bobbin so have you ever tried 2 different size wire on 1 bobbin like 42 to 6k and then 43 or 44 to the 9k

It's actually needful to say. You can make an all-42 gauge 9k Strat pu, especially if you use longer rod magnets that will give you more vertical space for the extra wire. (I've even made a few 11k monsters, one sitting in my own Strat.)

That said, I have made a few with 42 gauge up to +/-6.5k and take it the rest of way with 43.

That can easily be done and it works very well. I've made a few of those too. The bonus is that because the other coil is RWRP (obviously), it's less noisy than a standard coil split.

So I was thinking about getting humbuckers with one of the coils tapped. Then I could get one full coil plus a bit of the second coil as well to beef up the tone.

For arguments sake let's say you had an 8k humbucker with each coil measuring 4k. If I had one coil tapped at the 2.5k point then when I flipped my selector switch I would have one full coil at 4k and one tapped coil at 2.5k for a total of 6.5k. It wouldn't sound entirely like a single coil of course but it would be much better than the wimpy 4k coil on it's own.

This is what I was thinking about.

It's actually needful to say. You can make an all-42 gauge 9k Strat pu, especially if you use longer rod magnets that will give you more vertical space for the extra wire. (I've even made a few 11k monsters, one sitting in my own Strat.)

That said, I have made a few with 42 gauge up to +/-6.5k and take it the rest of way with 43.

it slipped my mind that i can make taller bobbins i have made some stack single coils as an experiment with some 1" a5 rods i should have looked for some shorter magnets ....thanks

I've got a 2 humbucker Tele which I love but I thought it might be nice to get more single coil-ish tones out of it.

I know I could simply split the humbuckers but I've never heard a split humbucker that sounds good to my ear. They always sound thin, brittle and wimpy.

So I was thinking about getting humbuckers with one of the coils tapped. Then I could get one full coil plus a bit of the second coil as well to beef up the tone.

For arguments sake let's say you had an 8k humbucker with each coil measuring 4k. If I had one coil tapped at the 2.5k point then when I flipped my selector switch I would have one full coil at 4k and one tapped coil at 2.5k for a total of 6.5k. It wouldn't sound entirely like a single coil of course but it would be much better than the wimpy 4k coil on it's own.

This is what I was thinking about.


I have never heard of humbuckers being tapped like this - thats GENIUS!!
and its sure to be stolen by the end of the week... I'm sure

hey it might make a good test for a PAF you could compare miss match coils vs match coils

I have never heard of humbuckers being tapped like this - thats GENIUS!!
and its sure to be stolen by the end of the week... I'm sure

It's sort of like having a Fralin Unbucker inside your humbucker. It works VERY well.

I have never heard of humbuckers being tapped like this - thats GENIUS!!
and its sure to be stolen by the end of the week... I'm sure

That's okay because if I were to be totally truthful (and I try to be) I got the idea from Zhangliqun (David Plummer). That's who I first heard it from a while back. Now where he got it from I don't know. Perhaps it's original to David.
So even though the idea itself may be pure genius I'm certainly not.

Instead of tapping one coil of a humbucker, you may get the same effect by splitting with a pot so you can dial in how much of the signal to shunt to ground. You can do that with existing pups.

Thanks to all that posted to this thread! I have only recently started to wind single coil pickups and you guys fingers are far more nimble than mine when it comes to mag wire manipulation. Thanks, Boneyguy for starting this thread too!

Instead of tapping one coil of a humbucker, you may get the same effect by splitting with a pot so you can dial in how much of the signal to shunt to ground. You can do that with existing pups.

Thanks to all that posted to this thread! I have only recently started to wind single coil pickups and you guys fingers are far more nimble than mine when it comes to mag wire manipulation. Thanks, Boneyguy for starting this thread too!

Hey Gary. Can you explain in more detail what you mean. I'm having trouble visualizing it.

When you split a humbucker, you use a switch to send the signal of one coil out to ground. That is part of the reason the signal becomes weak, some of it is being grounded out. Instead of using a switch, take the coil wires to the input of a pot and send the output to ground. You can dial how much of the signal is shunted and not lose the entire coil.
I've been meaning to try some caps to a switched split to see how that affects the tone.

When you split a humbucker, you use a switch to send the signal of one coil out to ground. That is part of the reason the signal becomes weak, some of it is being grounded out. Instead of using a switch, take the coil wires to the input of a pot and send the output to ground. You can dial how much of the signal is shunted and not lose the entire coil.
I've been meaning to try some caps to a switched split to see how that affects the tone.

So if I understand you correctly it seems to me that what you would be doing is simply having seperate control of the volume of each coil. Essentially you would have two single coils side by side each wired to it's own control. Correct?

My guess is that would give a very different result than tapping one coil because in your design you're still using both full coils but you're simply sending some of that signal from one coil (or both) to ground.

Have you done this before and if so what was the result?

You still have a master volume but I guess essentially you are creating a volume knob. I knew I'd seen this before and found this link:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1h_1v_1sas

I have done this to prove it could be done but didn't make it a part of the guitar. I ran it out the back of the control panel. I do plan on trying this with a slider switch instead of a pot.

thanks guys this is a very interesting thread a+++

Instead of tapping one coil of a humbucker, you may get the same effect by splitting with a pot so you can dial in how much of the signal to shunt to ground. You can do that with existing pups.

If I remember right, Peavy used this on some of their guitars.

I wish Don Mare or someone that knows how to do this would chime in. Pickup wire is so damn thin, how do you make the connections and re-insulate???

Someone who knows how to do this just explained it to you.

Don is a great guy who is very knowledgeable and helpful. But, why not show just a little respect and appreciation for the other knowledgeable people who have taken the time to explain things for you.

Instead of tapping one coil of a humbucker, you may get the same effect by splitting with a pot so you can dial in how much of the signal to shunt to ground. You can do that with existing pups.

This is called Spin-A-Split, which is a great idea and I think it was Duncan that came up with it. Or at least at his site wiring diagrams is the first place I ever heard of it. The only down side is you have to give up one pot for it, which I think is the reason the idea isn't a lot more popular than it is.

I like to think I came up with the "splat" (part split, part tap) idea on my own, and technically I sort of did because I didn't get it from anyone else. But that's not the same as saying no-one else thought of it before me, and I think somebody did, probably more than one but I didn't find that out til later. It's really not such an out-there idea that a bunch of people haven't considered it over the years -- I'm not that smart.

-- I'm not that smart.

Or are you!?

:mrgreen:

This is called Spin-A-Split, which is a great idea and I think it was Duncan that came up with it. Or at least at his site wiring diagrams is the first place I ever heard of it. The only down side is you have to give up one pot for it, which I think is the reason the idea isn't a lot more popular than it is.


My plan for using this is to employ a slider and a push-pull. I think once you have it adjusted to the level that produces the best single coil sound you won't need to tweak it. BoneyGuy pointed out that this is like adding another volume. I only remember getting a more convincing single coil sound than what I was getting with the push-pull alone.

I have never heard of humbuckers being tapped like this - thats GENIUS!!
and its sure to be stolen by the end of the week... I'm sure

Any idea who would steal this Don? :wink:

Someone who knows how to do this just explained it to you.

Don is a great guy who is very knowledgeable and helpful. But, why not show just a little respect and appreciation for the other knowledgeable people who have taken the time to explain things for you.

Sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intension.

So, if you were to tap one of the coils in a humbucker (as described) which coil would be the best to tap, the screw or the slug? And why?

So, if you were to tap one of the coils in a humbucker (as described) which coil would be the best to tap, the screw or the slug? And why?

that depends on which position . for bridge tap the slug side for the neck tap the screw side

that depends on which position . for bridge tap the slug side for the neck tap the screw side

I was thinking about the pickups in the 'classic' orientation with the screw coils on the outside, farthest apart from each other.

Like this..

http://www.hagstromguitars.com/images/humbuckers.jpg

If this is the orientation you were thinking of as well, then why would you tap them the way you have described?

i have been experimenting with mismatched coils lately & this is a common topic lately
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/52090-matched-vs-miss-matched.html
try the SD FORUM AS WELL
I WAS referring to the hottest coils to be tapped

i have been experimenting with mismatched coils lately & this is a common topic lately
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/52090-matched-vs-miss-matched.html
try the SD FORUM AS WELL
I WAS referring to the hottest coils to be tapped

Mismatched coils are my preference. I have 2 sets of humbuckers wound by a local maker (A2 and A5) that have mismatched coils and are unpotted and they sound fantastic. They are much more 'lively' and open sounding. I could throw around more adjectives but that would likely not mean much. The bottom line for me is that I believe that mismatching coils and not potting them does make an important and noticeable difference.

Hi Boneguy, I never pot my pickups if I can help it. I do for high gain situations for sure and maybe a little for guys who use a little heavier OD but clean players get them unpotted. To me potting kills some of the magic you wound into the coil to start with..

And I do mismatched coils as well. You are right, it opens it up and gives it a little more sparkle a definition. You can go too far on this and get some really nasty frequency spikes.:shock:

Hi Boneguy, I never pot my pickups if I can help it. I do for high gain situations for sure and maybe a little for guys who use a little heavier OD but clean players get them unpotted. To me potting kills some of the magic you wound into the coil to start with..

And I do mismatched coils as well. You are right, it opens it up and gives it a little more sparkle a definition. You can go too far on this and get some really nasty frequency spikes.:shock:

Hi Ben. I can definitely hear the difference. I've not run into any problems with unpotted pickups feeding back and I do like to pump up the volume but I don't dial in lots of overdrive. I prefer, as Keefer says, to have "a little hair" around the note but that's all and in my experience that's what makes the difference. I think you can play loud with unpotted pickups without too much concern for feedback but as soon as you play loud and dial up a lot of distortion than you've got problems.

I find as well that the uneven coils give a nice character to the sound. A shimmery sparkle on the top and woody clarity on the bottom. Of course it's important to get the right pickups in the right guitar for that to happen.

In my experience when you hear a really well designed humbucker you will conclude that there is not such a great difference between humbuckers and single coils as most people believe. Most people it seems have only experienced muddy sounding, poorly designed and poorly constructed humbuckers.

The 2 pair that I have that my buddy wound me actually remind me very much in many regards of a P90 sound when I've got them dialed in properly. They have that slightly rude shimmer on top and a grunt to them that makes you smile on the inside. :lol: And no mud.

Here's one of my favourite examples.

o9Ujm4HEXGc

I have not attempted a humbucker yet. When speaking of them being mismatched, how much variance does one use?

The usual variations when you don´t want the full humbucker sound and have a pickup with four wires plus ground is to either split it by grounding the connection between the two coils or connecting the coils in parallel.It doesn´t sound wimpy and the pickup is still humbucking.I don´t know which wire gauge Duncan uses on his single-coil Quarter-Pound but he manages to get a resistance of 17.38 kohm in full mode and 8 kohm tapped.

I have not attempted a humbucker yet. When speaking of them being mismatched, how much variance does one use?

Sorry, but off the top of my head I can't recall what the difference is between the coils on the pickups I've got. It's not a huge difference though. I've left a message for my winder friend to call me and tell me what he wound them at and then I can post that info.

Just heard back from my friend.

Here's what he says "In the bridge the coils were 5200 winds on the slugs and 5400 winds on the screws.

I'm not a winder myself but that doesn't seem like a huge difference but it's enough of a difference that you can hear the result.

that depends on which position . for bridge tap the slug side for the neck tap the screw side

I say the opposite. I want all of that slug coil in the bridge and just a little of the screw coil for some decent grunt. Doing it the other way makes for a slicey tone.

I say the opposite. I want all of that slug coil in the bridge and just a little of the screw coil for some decent grunt. Doing it the other way makes for a slicey tone.

That makes sense to me.

And would you say the same for the neck? Tap the screw coil side and keep all of the slug coil?

I say the opposite. I want all of that slug coil in the bridge and just a little of the screw coil for some decent grunt. Doing it the other way makes for a slicey tone.

i was just thinking the hotter coil would be tapped but it dont matter as long as ther can get miss matched with the correct coil
so i was thinking in the bridge the slug coil should be hotter & in the neck the screw coil should be hotter anybody agree with this?

Boneguy is right, A humbucker really should sound like a single coil somewhat. When I first started winding my best friend told me, if you can wind me a humbucker that sounds like a single coil you'll have it. He was right.

Just heard back from my friend.

Here's what he says "In the bridge the coils were 5200 winds on the slugs and 5400 winds on the screws.

I'm not a winder myself but that doesn't seem like a huge difference but it's enough of a difference that you can hear the result.

That would be about a 3% difference. Lindy Fralin considers 5% on a single coil as over wound. Thanks for the info!

i was just thinking the hotter coil would be tapped but it dont matter as long as ther can get miss matched with the correct coil
so i was thinking in the bridge the slug coil should be hotter & in the neck the screw coil should be hotter anybody agree with this?

I like the slug coil hotter too. That's part of why you don't want to tap it. You want all of that beefy slug (beefy because it's wound hotter and because it sits under a beefier sounding section of the string) and just add a little screw coil to it.

nice . im on the right track ..thanks Zhangligun

nice . im on the right track ..thanks Zhangligun

I think David is saying that he prefers the slug coil on both neck and bridge to be the untapped, hotter coil although his response to your previous post is not entirely clear about that.

boneyguy i was asking because i was more concerned with which coil should be the offset coil or the HOT coil. not really what coil to tap

boneyguy i was asking because i was more concerned with which coil should be the offset coil or the HOT coil. not really what coil to tap

Okay, I see.

This is all great information to be getting from these experienced people. Thanks for all the responses, it's been a great help.

I was thinking about the pickups in the 'classic' orientation with the screw coils on the outside, farthest apart from each other.

Like this..

http://www.hagstromguitars.com/images/humbuckers.jpg

If this is the orientation you were thinking of as well, then why would you tap them the way you have described?

Because the coils that are farther from the bridge have the better stand-alone tone.

That makes sense to me.

And would you say the same for the neck? Tap the screw coil side and keep all of the slug coil?

No, opposite there. The neck screw coil has the sweeter part of the string so tap the slug on the neck.

Because the coils that are farther from the bridge have the better stand-alone tone.

No, opposite there. The neck screw coil has the sweeter part of the string so tap the slug on the neck.

Thanks David. I really appreciate your input on this.


In general, does the slug coil have a bit more oomph to it in contrast to the screw coil?

Do the slugs tend transmit more magnetic charge and therefore have more output or at least a fuller sound? I'm thinking it would because it's a single,solid piece whereas the screws are not.

I'm wondering this because if they do would it make sense to simple turn the neck pickup around and then tap the screw coil. That way you've got the slug coil which has more oomph to it (if in fact it does) at the sweet spot under the string.

I'm I making any sense here?

Hi Boneguy, turning the neck pickup will give you a different tone true, but you will put the pickups magnetically out of phase with each other. You could do a simple magnet flip and fix the problem.

Hi Boneguy, turning the neck pickup will give you a different tone true, but you will put the pickups magnetically out of phase with each other. You could do a simple magnet flip and fix the problem.

Turning the pickup around does not change the phase. Flipping the pickup upside down would change the phase, but that is a lot more work. :smile:

Instead you can change the phase by rotating the magnet.

Hi Boneguy, turning the neck pickup will give you a different tone true, but you will put the pickups magnetically out of phase with each other. You could do a simple magnet flip and fix the problem.

Thanks Ben. Good point. Probably not a problem for me though because I only ever play the neck or the bridge by themselves, never both together. In fact on a few of my guitars I've put in a 2 way switch. I've just never found a 'both pickups on' sound that I like on any guitar I've owned. All the tight, focused sound that I can get from either the bridge or neck disappears and it gets too thin and 'pretty' sounding for my tastes. I've tried wiring in series but it still doesn't do it for me.

Turning the pickup around does not change the phase. Flipping the pickup upside down would change the phase, but that is a lot more work. :smile:

Instead you can change the phase by rotating the magnet.

EDIT: Okay, now I"m just confused.

It seems we're maybe arguing about which are the appropriate verbs to use. 'Flip' 'Rotate' 'turning around'. I think you and Ben may be saying the exact same thing? Maybe?

I think so Bone. What I meant is if you turn the pickup in the neck around, "screw side towards bridge, it will be magnetically out of phase with the bridge pickup when you play in the middle position. A lot of people like this tone, me not too much. So coming from the neck you would have the magnet line up like this: N/S neck and N/S Bridge PU. NSNS instead of the normal way which is
SNNS

EDIT: Okay, now I"m just confused.

It seems we're maybe arguing about which are the appropriate verbs to use. 'Flip' 'Rotate' 'turning around'. I think you and Ben may be saying the exact same thing? Maybe?


No, we aren't.

I am saying that the only way you can "turn the neck pickup" to make it out of phase is if you put it in upside down. Phase is determined by the relationship between the magnet's field and the direction the coils are wound. Unless you take the pickup apart those phase relationships are unchanged.

Turning the pickup around just puts the adjustable poles closer to the bridge. Moving a pickup does change its relationship to the other pickup, but does not make it "out of phase." It is a different sound. But not electrically out of phase.

If you open the pickup and rotate the magnet 180 about its long axis you will now have an out of phase pickup. Whether it is turned around in the ring or not.

In general, does the slug coil have a bit more oomph to it in contrast to the screw coil?

It has more punch, partly because the slugs are thicker, but also because unlike the slugs, the screws drag some of the magnetic field down below the baseplate, so the tone is a bit more sweet/mellow. You can prove this by cutting about 1/4" off the screws so they no longer extend below the baseplate. The screw coil would then sound more like a slug coil under the same part of the string, more upper mid punch and and bite.

I'm wondering this because if they do would it make sense to simple turn the neck pickup around and then tap the screw coil. That way you've got the slug coil which has more oomph to it (if in fact it does) at the sweet spot under the string. I'm I making any sense here?

It's not a huge difference, and what difference there is is significantly reduced as you raise the screws toward the strings.

On the bridge pickup, you can get a lot more midrange by spinning it so the slug coil faces the bridge and raising the screws to your taste.

It has more punch, partly because the slugs are thicker, but also because unlike the slugs, the screws drag some of the magnetic field down below the baseplate, so the tone is a bit more sweet/mellow. You can prove this by cutting about 1/4" off the screws so they no longer extend below the baseplate. The screw coil would then sound more like a slug coil under the same part of the string, more upper mid punch and and bite.



It's not a huge difference, and what difference there is is significantly reduced as you raise the screws toward the strings.

On the bridge pickup, you can get a lot more midrange by spinning it so the slug coil faces the bridge and raising the screws to your taste.

Thanks again David. As always you've given us some really great information. I appreciate it.

I have a short question that refers to tapping a single coil. Several pickup manufacturers offer PUs with one or more coil taps. Imagine for instance a PU that is 9k total resistance with a tap at 6k. The recommended standard way to wire this would be to hook a SPDT switch to the signal wire that switches between the 6k and 9k taps. When switched to 6k there is always an unused section of the coil (of 3k in this example) connected to the signal wire. This bothers me since I do not know what several hundred yards of loose magnet wire does to the signal. I put this in the attached drawing 1.

When I swap the ground and the signal connection to the PU this would give me another way of connecting it, operating the pickup "in reverse" (drawing 2). The advantage would be that in the 6k mode there would be no unused coil section connected to the signal. Has anyone experimented with these two ways to wire a PU with coil tap? Phase issues aside, wouldn't the second way of wiring give me a different/better sound as I would expect?

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/coil_tap2.jpg

Thanks!

If the extra wire has any effect at all, it might be to add a little noise. Shouldn't affect the actual tone at all though.