4-way switch with buzzing???? help????

I just finished a build where I used fender 52RI pups and wired in a 4-way switch. All 4 positions work, and sound great...only problem is a buzz in all positions. Buzz goes away when I touch any metal...obviously a ground issue, but I've checked, double checked and triple checked everything. I followed the directions as stated, even lifted the ground to the cover and ran a separate ground. I've searched and searched for possible issues but have come up empty.

If it was a single bad ground connection I'd think that touching only the part missing ground would remove the buzz, but in this case literally touching any piece of metal on the guitar takes care of it.

Any ideas?

Are the leads reversed at the output jack?

Are the leads reversed at the output jack?

that's what I first thought, but when I switched them is was out of control buzzing...crazy loud.

If the hum goes away when you touch the strings or controls, then everything in your guitar is grounded exactly as it should be. In these cases I will usually look to the other end of the cable for the source of the buzz. How bad of a buzz are we talking about here in comparison to other guitars plugged in to the same setup?

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech/200754-ground-wire-issues.html

other tele I built is quiet as a church mouse at the same settings...even has a p90 in the neck of that one...

just doesn't add up...I'll check everything again tomorrow and hope I stumble across the culprit. It seems that when I touch the jack cup the buzz won't go away, if I touch the end of the cable it does, but not so much on the jack cup...odd...

No, you're right, that doesn't add up at all. I can't think of a case where the jack cup could easily avoid being connected to ground. That sounds very odd, and may suggest something going on that's not within easy view from this end, and nothing immediately comes to mind that would explain your issue with what's known so far. If you had a meter and could take some readings, it could make off-site diagnosis much simpler.

ok, I was mistaken about the jack cup. it also silences the buzz when touched. I reflowed all ground connections and checked resistance values between neck cover/bridge/control plate/jack cup/strings etc... and got anwhere from .8 to 2 ohms or so. I obviously have good connection everywhere in terms of ground.

I just don't get it. It goes dead silent when I touch anything metal. I suppose I can just run down the volume when I'm not playing...or forget the 4-way switch altogether and change out to a 3-way and be done with it. It has to be a 4-way switch issue.

If it only appeared in certain positions it would make more sense...but the buzz is ALWAYS there...

Is there a proper Right/Left handed side to the switch? That is the only thing I can think that maybe the orientation of the switch is backward...but that doesn't make any sense either...

Did you twist all the wires? Made a big dereference in mine. Mine was acting like an antenna also. But I still get some buzz in some positions single coils.

Did you twist all the wires? Made a big dereference in mine. Mine was acting like an antenna also. But I still get some buzz in some positions single coils.

yes, I twisted the pickup wires. I didn't twist the output jack wires...should do that too. It isn't 60Hz hum...it's buzz...you can hear the static snap/pop when you touch anything metal and then bam it's gone. I just haven't had this issue with my other home built tele at all, it's got a 3-way switch and I'm pretty close to changing out this one and seeing if that'll do it. I've not had the series position long enough to fall in love with it, so if it doesn't work it just doesn't work...

switched the 4-way direction, turned it 180 degrees...no change...

changed out 4-way to a 3-way I had here and same thing...buzz...

I may have to take this thing all the way apart an start over...I don't get it...makes no sense...

I give up...I guess I'll just roll off the volume whenever I take my hands off of it.

I'm not real sharp on the electrical stuff could it just be a bad pickup? To me they work or don’t. or a bad pot . You might try another wiring schematic seems there about ten ways to wire something to get the same results I no that helped me with one guitar. Other than that might just be the flux capacitor

The one thing I thought was odd was the capacitor connected from the middle lug of the tone to the ground. In normal diagrams I've seen the cap comes off of an outside lug on the tone to the ground... not sure what the story is on that... I don't think switching the cap placement is going to get me anywhere, but I suppose it's worth a shot.

Any other wiring diagrams I've seen for the 4-way switch look identical to the fender diagram...

On the plus side...the guitar sounds KILLER right now...just wish I could get rid of the buzz...

double post

From what's been said so far, it still sounds like everything is fine with the guitar itself, and the source of the noise is somewhere at the other end of the cable. If you get the most noise with the pickups in series, least with them both on in parallel, and somewhere in between when they are in neck or bridge position alone, this would seem to reinforce this.

Check the total resistance of the neck and bridge positions as it comes out the jack. Then put the switch on the bridge position and check the resistance of the neck pickup at the switch, and check the bridge pickup leads at the switch with the selector switched to the neck position. You should get readings slightly higher at the switch in this comparison than at the jack. If you get higher readings at the jack, this could be a sign of a bad volume pot that isn't completely reaching 10.

Even there however, though this may explain why this guitar is noisier than the other, the source of the noise would still be the amp / outlet. Basically, any noise that goes away when you touch the strings is caused by bad grounding at the amp or outlet. This noise will be more apparent on higher impedance pickups (or if your volume is stopping short of 10, leaving the guitar at a higher impedance), but the source of the noise is not in the guitar. Does this other quieter guitar have similar impedance pickups? Have you plugged the noisy one in to other rigs in other places yet?

I'll have to do some resistance measurements and report back. these are 52RI pups in this buzz box, so were talking in the 7k range.

The other guitar has a 10k overwound bridge and a P90 thats over 8k. I'd think I'd get more buzz out of that than these tame "vintage" spec pickups.

The noise happens with or without my pedal board, with both of my amps, in the house and in the barn...everywhere it is exactly the same. And everywhere the other guitar, with overwound pups, is completely silent.

I really have a hard time believing the amp/outlet is causing this buzz. It is the same in all positions...only a slight increase with the bridge because the highs are more pronounced anyway. When I roll the tone off, buzz goes away of course...but who wants to sound like they have a pillow over the amp:cry:

I think there must be a bad component somewhere in the chain causing this. I just don't see any other way to make sense of it.

That is indeed curious...

Thing is, when you touch the strings or any grounded metal component on the guitar, the only thing you are changing is that you are providing a truly neutral ground to the system as a whole - amp, guitar, pedals. Nothing else changes when you touch the strings, which is why the rule of "if it goes away when you touch it, it must not be perfectly grounded at the other end of the cable" is pretty hard to get around. Apply a perfect ground with your body, noise goes away. Remove contact from known perfect ground, noise returns. No changes in shielding, wiring, components - it all points in one pretty specific direction.

Now I don't doubt your observations, and I've learned better than to try and claim absolute certainty in a system I have not been able to test or observe first hand. Still, I'm honestly at a loss as to what else it could be. Perhaps there's a point I've overlooked that others may be able to chime in to help with. It is indeed curious as to why your higher impedance P-90 guitar performs more quietly in this case than the 52RI pickups. That, I can't really explain.

One last salt test. If you have a copper water pipe near by (doesn't apply if you have a newer house with PVC plumbing), try tying a wire from it to a ground on your amp, or the housing of your cable's jack should be fine. Assuming your amps uses a 3-prong plug this should be safe - if it's a 2-prong, I'd be careful in deciding to try this. If the noise no longer changes when you touch a ground on the guitar, this would verify my original suggestion (though I'll still be scratching my head over why the P-90s are quieter). If it still exhibits the same problems, I guess it's back to square one.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

David, Thanks for all your input so far...I've still got to get the mutlimeter out and check some resistance values tonight, but I did a little experiment just for giggles.

Our lead guitarist leaves an old solid state VOX DA15 in the barn for rehearsals so I plugged into it just to see what it sounded like. There was still a bit of buzz, but no where close to my tube amps.

I've got a palmomino V16 by crate(15watt all tube) and a peavey classic 30. Is there something inherent to tube amps that is making the situation worse? I still don't get why this is the only one of my guitars that has done this...but like I said, I'll check some numbers tonight and try to eliminate some possible problems from the chain.

I want to fix this so bad now I'm wondering if I just need to find a small solid state amp I can use with this guitar alone...that ain't right...I don't need another amp...

I have to admit that though I am aware of how different systems can combine differently to diminish or exaggerate certain problems, the exact means or reasons of these changes is somewhat beyond me. Could be the input impedance of the amps, could be something else peculiar about their circuitry? I don't really know, but sometimes you can just end up with a caustic mixture of components.

It'll drive you nuts, eh? Hopefully there are some amp techs who know more of the intricate little interactions that can pile up and let problems slip through more than others. I only work on the guitar end of the cable, and solving problems like this can benefit from a better understanding of the system as a whole, which I admit is beyond my area of expertise. :rolleyes:

Had the same problems with my MIM Tele some years ago. Changed the pickups to Fender Vintage Noiseless and to a four-way switch. Terrible noise in all positions, and if I remember correctly the noise dissappeared when I touched the strings or whatever metal that was grounded. I also noticed that the noise got worse when I got closer to the guitar without actually grounding it, suggesting I was acting as an antenna.
I managed to solve the problem after many(!) frustrating hours by simply ripping the thing apart and shield the guitar. I used some conductive spray paint for the cavities and changed all the original cables to something that was a little easier to work with (this also made it easier to "tidy up" the layout which, at least on my guitar, was all over the place). I also changed the pickup cables to shielded cables (two-conductor wire; for the neck pickup with the shield going to the cover and the leads going to the coil; for the bridge pickup I connected the actual bridge to the shield and the other leads to the coil effectively using the shield as the ground wire for the bridge). I also implemented star grounding, connecting the wire shields, the ground from the output jack and the ground wires from the cavities on the same pot, which - if I remember correctly - was not done on the wiring diagram from Fender. I also made sure that the cables lengths were kept at a minimum.

Hope this helps. Good luck!!

Had the same problems with my MIM Tele some years ago. Changed the pickups to Fender Vintage Noiseless and to a four-way switch. Terrible noise in all positions, and if I remember correctly the noise dissappeared when I touched the strings or whatever metal that was grounded. I also noticed that the noise got worse when I got closer to the guitar without actually grounding it, suggesting I was acting as an antenna.
I managed to solve the problem after many(!) frustrating hours by simply ripping the thing apart and shield the guitar. I used some conductive spray paint for the cavities and changed all the original cables to something that was a little easier to work with (this also made it easier to "tidy up" the layout which, at least on my guitar, was all over the place). I also changed the pickup cables to shielded cables (two-conductor wire; for the neck pickup with the shield going to the cover and the leads going to the coil; for the bridge pickup I connected the actual bridge to the shield and the other leads to the coil effectively using the shield as the ground wire for the bridge). I also implemented star grounding, connecting the wire shields, the ground from the output jack and the ground wires from the cavities on the same pot, which - if I remember correctly - was not done on the wiring diagram from Fender. I also made sure that the cables lengths were kept at a minimum.

Hope this helps. Good luck!!


I was going to actually shield it this week after reading a thread about my own body being the antenna that was causing the issue. I bought copper tape when I got all the parts ordered for this guitar but went ahead and assembled without it...I guess the easy road is never the best one...

Thanks for the input. I'm still going to take some readings tonight as David suggested, but it looks like I'll be takin' it apart and taping it up as well. It's gotta help...I hope

Ok, I checked all resistance values at the output jack...

bridge around 7k
both in parallel around 3.47K
neck alone 6.8k
both in series around 13.6k

neck pickup at switch with switch in bridge position 7.21k

bridge pickup at switch with switch in neck position 7.42k

which is what I expected...

I took it apart so I could shield it with copper tape... it seems to have helped a touch...not much I don't think really. I still don't get it, but I suppose I'll just have to deal with it.

I even plugged in my old 1963 Gibson Falcon GA19RVT since I have a known chassis ground I put on it and still got the buzz... go figure...must be a "vintage" thing:roll:

I thinking already to get a set of texas specials for this guitar...at least something to get me hum free in a position or two...oh well, maybe the next one:cool:

Dilbone, finally came up with a reasonable theory as to why the buzz is more prominent on your Tele than others. One of those things I'm surprised hadn't occurred to me before.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/206856-highway-one-texas-tele-grounding-problem.html

Proximity of non-hum-canceling coils to any grounded surface (covers, plates, strings), I speculate should be directly proportional to how much hum you'll get between different guitars through the same rig if your problem is in the electrical ground. Humbuckers would deliver the least noise. Single coils like a strat without metal covers or base plates (or not surrounded by a metal tele bridge plate) would be second least. Single coils with metal base plates (P-90's) that are somewhat distanced from the coils may have a bit more noise than Strat pickups, though the plates are far enough from the coils that they are probably less influential. Noise from both Strat pickups and P-90's may increase slightly in noise the closer you bring them to the strings. Tele pickups with the metal neck cover, brass bridge pickup plate, and bridge base plate would naturally deliver the most noise from a bad electrical ground, as the coils are directly surrounded by ground plates which would be carrying the noise (until you touch the strings and bleed off the ground noise to your body).

Makes sense to me now, kind of seems like a "duh" moment that I hadn't made this association before.

that does make sense, but the two teles I'm comparing both have metal base plates on the bridge pups...the one has a P90 in the neck and the other a traditional nickel covered neck pup.

The only other thing I can think is the fact that the one has overwound/higher output pups so maybe the output to noise ratio is smaller than the lower output vintage pups.

I even took this new build into GC today to check it out through a few different amps. Depending on the amp I got different levels of buzz...that just doesn't seem right. Oh, well...at least I know I'm normal...:wink:

that does make sense, but the two teles I'm comparing both have metal base plates on the bridge pups...the one has a P90 in the neck and the other a traditional nickel covered neck pup.

The only other thing I can think is the fact that the one has overwound/higher output pups so maybe the output to noise ratio is smaller than the lower output vintage pups.

I even took this new build into GC today to check it out through a few different amps. Depending on the amp I got different levels of buzz...that just doesn't seem right. Oh, well...at least I know I'm normal...:wink:

i have the same problem on ALL my guitars. Sheilded or not, hum canceling positions or not. there always that small amount of buzz that comes when i dont touch something metal on the guitar or chords/pedals.

Im almost positive it has nothing to do with bad pickups/pots/wires in the guitar, since all my guitars do this, even my G&L which was like that straight from the factory. I added sheilding to all my guitars which, as expected reduced 60 cycle hum and other outside noise. but the string touch buzzing still goes on.