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Best Delay and Reverb Pedal for Rockabilly?

guitardedzen
March 20th, 2010, 06:28 PM
I'm new to effects pedals and frankly am coming back to electric guitar after a five year stint with bluegrass flatpicking. I'll have my kit blackguard esquire finished by sometime next week and am playing through a 1979 silverface fender champ (tube still). Most of my rockabilly playing will be coming from P-90's in my three pickup Epiphone Zephyr Blues Deluxe (think '49 Gibson ES-5 or see profile pic). I believe my dad has either a Boss or Ibanez pedal he uses as well as a Dano pedal that he uses for his gigs. The sounds I'm going for are mainly like Cliff Gallups from mid 50's Gene Vincent's Blue Caps and of course Scotty Moores sound. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

wangdangdoodle
March 20th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Are you sure you're not thining of a 'delay' pedal?

cactusrob
March 20th, 2010, 06:38 PM
That's what I was wondering, too WDD...a tight dose of delay and some reverb is what I would think you'd need but I'm no rockabilly expert.... There's a lot of very friendly, knowledgeable folks on here that I'm sure will have an informed answer for you.

imsilly
March 20th, 2010, 07:15 PM
It's definately delay and reverb you want. Though I guess some people used Chorus, I know for a fact that a lot of Tape Echo Machines incorporate Chorus as an additional affect. Think later Roland Space Echo machines.

There are two routes really an authentic analog tape delay and spring reverb one and a modern pedal one. Frankly both a good, just different and it's a personal preference which you choose. They both have pluses and minuses.

The biggest differences are in cost and reliability. If you are on a budget pedals might be your only course, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing because they are a lot more reliable. Though there are aspects of old analog effects they can't recreate.

I don't have much experience with the pedals side, the few pedals with these functions I had as backups to old analog effects so they didn't get much use. The EHX Holy Grail (Reverb) and Memory Man (Delay) pedals are classics and very popular. I don't particularly like their sounds as they come accross a little bright and tinny to me, but they sell by the bucket load so I guess they are pretty decent. The Malekko Spring Chicken (Reverb) and MXR Carbon Copy (Delay) are newer pedals and again both very popular. They are also pretty reasonably priced. I think they sound better then the EHX pedals. If I had to go for a pedal that was a little more expensive then those I'd probably choose a Vanamps Solemate (Reverb) and Maxon AD999 (Delay) because they sound probably the closest to the original spring and tape effects in a pedal.

If you want to head into vintage and boutique spring and tape territory you have to do your research and get lucky with what is available. I love my Roland Space Echo it is a combined Spring reverb and Tape echo unit, like much of the rockabilly revival artists used, including Setzer. They come in many variations and can be had for under $500 which is pretty close to the cost of a very good set of pedals. They also act as a preamp, adding compression, EQing ability, boosts and even a little of their own distortion. So you get a lot for the extra money. A lot of old reverb and echo machines colour your tone. They need annual servicing and replacement parts though. There are always Watkins (WEM) Copicats a cheaper alternative and very much like the tape echos inbuilt into those early rockabilly amps like the Echosonic. There are also godly and expensive options like the Binson Echo machines. There are oddball Echorec Echos like Beck liked to use. Echoplex's like Jimmy Page used for recordings. Fender's own outboard reverb is one of the best effects ever produced.

Anyway it's all down to buget, patience and tone.

Axis29
March 21st, 2010, 02:41 PM
I love my MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay. It does the slapback thing like magic. That and my Gretsch sound like Scotty Moore through my Deluxe Reverb amp.

I had a Danelectro Analog (it was the lavender one I think) Delay that sounded nice too, but went wonky on me...

Reverb? Dunno, I got it in both my amps already... the Fender Spring Reverb unit is an extremely nice unit that I've heard fantastic things about. But it's kinda pricey.

I think imsilly has hot most of the reverb pedals I've heard of.... and then some! LOL

twangjeff
March 21st, 2010, 05:03 PM
Aqua Puss. Period. Nails all of those slap back tones with ease!

gypsyseven
March 21st, 2010, 05:17 PM
Mxr Carbon Copy & EHX Holy Grail.

waters
March 21st, 2010, 07:07 PM
Mxr Carbon copy, Aqua Puss reissue, or a Cmatmods Deeelay along with a Hermida Reverb for some subtle spring like reverb. Look around and buy used and you could get the job done for 200 bucks or less. Yep, it"s as simple as that... :)

tele salivas
March 21st, 2010, 07:54 PM
Aqua Puss has the rockabilly slapback and then some other great classic sounds,,,I like the Electro Harmonix Holy Grail for reverb...mines lasted real well the last 5 years, just be sure to use the power supply it comes with if you decide on it, all others will mess it up. Also, if your amp doesn't have tremolo, for about $20-30 you can get a Dano Tuna Melt for some of that classic trem sound,,,that goes well with the rockabilly too...

castpolymer
March 21st, 2010, 11:13 PM
I love my MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay. It does the slapback thing like magic. That and my Gretsch sound like Scotty Moore through my Deluxe Reverb amp.

I had a Danelectro Analog (it was the lavender one I think) Delay that sounded nice too, but went wonky on me...

Reverb? Dunno, I got it in both my amps already... the Fender Spring Reverb unit is an extremely nice unit that I've heard fantastic things about. But it's kinda pricey.

I think imsilly has hot most of the reverb pedals I've heard of.... and then some! LOL
Hopefully going to land a MXR Carbon Copy tomorrow. CL trade. I am looking forward to playing thru it.

ghall
March 21st, 2010, 11:33 PM
I play a Gretsch 5120 through a Frontman 212 and when I want that Scotty Moore sound I step on (gently) my Danelectro BLT echo. I swear it sounds dead on. I say "gently" because you can buy this pedal for under $20 and it looks like if you step on it to hard it might crumble. That said, I have had mine for over a year with no troubles. Can't go wrong for under twenty.

ironweed
March 22nd, 2010, 09:54 AM
Look at the Danelectro Reel Echo. Not in the same league as a real tape Echoplex, but mimics the effect and the control layout. Gets a nice single or multi slapback.

LaExpatriot
March 22nd, 2010, 09:57 AM
I really like the SPace Echo for an all in 1 pedal.
As for reverb I use either the built in reverb on my DRRI or a Fender63 outboard reverb unit.
For Delay I have heard great things about the Carl Martin Red Repeat. I use a cheapy Dano Fab Echo for my Delay. Bought it for $9 used at local store. For the $ it is all I need.

nasonm
March 22nd, 2010, 09:57 AM
I'll throw a different one into the mix. For the money I like the new EH Memory Toy. It's a $70 analog delay. Simple, does what it needs to do.

dog fart
March 22nd, 2010, 11:45 AM
I'm looking for reverb myself, but for Rock-a-billy delay I suggest the Way Huge Aqua-Puss or the MXR Carbon Copy. They cost about the same on-line. Find a dealer with good return policy.
D F

Robsocal
March 22nd, 2010, 12:22 PM
The Lovepedal Echo Baby does slapback (and other echo settings) very well, and it doesn't take up much room on you board. I think Lovepedal makes their effects pretty solidly in general.

cactusrob
March 22nd, 2010, 12:27 PM
There's a lot of very friendly, knowledgeable folks on here that I'm sure will have an informed answer for you.

See what I mean? :grin:

Brian blaut
March 22nd, 2010, 01:41 PM
any analog Delay will get you there. That is first and foremost. the MXR carbon copy is a great pedal at a great price. There's also the Malekko 616 and Way Huge Aqua Puss and the BBE Two-Timer (all of which I haven't played) which interest me the most. I'm personally no fan of the 'modulation' on these pedals though. If they sounded just like tape warble, then it would be ok, but they don't. So I just find them annoying and distracting and adding muddiness to the tones.

On the cheap, a DanEcho is just the thing. It doesn't have the headroom though and the repeats can distort in the effects loop, or if the pedal is fed with a boost. But for a digital pedal, it sounds pretty great with a clean or cleanish signal through the front of the amp. It has a tone knob which is great for dialing in a warmer or brighter delay.

I use a little spring reverb too, but it depends on the room. If you're playing rather quiet in a dead room, the reverb to grease up the tone is perfect. If you're playing loudly in a muddy room, all the reverb does is add to the muddiness. Too much reverb fills in the gaps in the delay, making the delay less noticeable. Sometimes I turn off the delay and just crank up the springs. sometimes I turn off the reverb and let the delay be more pronounced. If I had to choose one though, it would be the delay for sure.

There's not rules though. Scotty Moore uses a Boss digital delay and a Boss chorus pedal through a Peavey classic 30. -That settup would be laughed at by traditionalist rockabillies who are hell bent at coping Scotty's original sound. It'll be much more important to just play the music well, with the right spirit. -Which is the real trick. Faking Scotty's or Cliff's gear is rather easy. Playing like them is the hard part.

Spring reverb pedals are tricky. not room or hall reverbs, but truely, Plate reverbs would be the verb heard on any of the old 50's recordings. Still, I like the sound of springs (even faux springs). All will work just fine for a little bit of reverb, but if you want to surround the notes a little thicker, they start to fall apart. I sold the Holy Grail, Chicklet, passed on the Hardwire for various individual reasons -but each of these did great at light settings. I've got a Boss FRV-1 and Mr. Springgy on the way. It's possible I'll rebuy the Grail in the end as it's pro's just might turn out to outway it's cons... You can also get a used Fender Reissue Tanke for under $400 if you're really serious about your reverb.

But there's a whole mess of delay and reverb options out there. Any of them will fine, but they are all different in the details. It's a long road if you start getting picky.

have fun

davidge1
March 22nd, 2010, 02:00 PM
any analog Delay will get you there. That is first and foremost.

That's what I was going to say. That's all you need.

I don't think reverb is necessary or even desirable for rockabilly. They didn't have it back in in the 50s.

bo
March 22nd, 2010, 04:08 PM
I spent nine years playing lead in a RAB trio. First thing, skip the reverb for live playing. It will only wash out your guitar sound. Yeah, yeah, I know it sounds "like a record" when playing at home. There are several good delays out there but after trying several I highly suggest tracking down an old DOD FX90 analog delay. As a rule they're pretty cheap as they aren't especially sought after by the Gilmour-heads. You can often snag one off of Ebay for less than $100.00. They are not necessarily great general purpose delays, but are amazing for fat warm slapback. YMMV. Happy hunting.

charlie chitlin
March 22nd, 2010, 04:17 PM
On the cheap, a DanEcho is just the thing. It doesn't have the headroom though and the repeats can distort in the effects loop, or if the pedal is fed with a boost. But for a digital pedal, it sounds pretty great with a clean or cleanish signal through the front of the amp. It has a tone knob which is great for dialing in a warmer or brighter delay.



have fun

For my money...the DanEcho bets everything I've heard at imitating that degradation on the repeats that you get with tape.
It's not true bypass, though, and some notice that it affects your signal even when switched off.
And...I've been rocking a ZBD for awhile now. I love it.
Especially after I unwound the pickups from around 13ohms down to about 9. Sweeeeet!

JamesL
March 22nd, 2010, 04:21 PM
+1 on the Danelectro BLT echo.....it nails it in my opinion...I used to own one but I gave it to my son...but I liked it!!!

1955
April 10th, 2010, 01:04 PM
The ibanez ad9 does a good slap that's dark (filltered) on the repeat (you only want 1) & cheap $-wise. I've had a diamond memory lane & a good many boutique others but the AD9 even though it's not highly praised all the time is pretty decent imo and it's small. Haven't tried the carbon copy --- the newer EHX stuff I've heard doesn't sound right but I haven't heard the memory toy/boy. I even had a really cheap johnson echo that really colored the sound, but I kind of miss it.

The older D. MM's are good for your 60's echoplexy stuff but the choral mod is always there even when its all the way down so, used as a slap it's a little too colored on the repeat. But it does sound good as a slap anyway. I had Howard Davis mod mine and it sounds fantastic.

If you got the dough, the Fulltone TTE is the real deal and does sound exactly right.

My AD9 has lasted through about 500 gigs with no problems and there is more up-keep on the tape echo units.

With any pedals that gig a lot, you have to contact-clean the jacks every couple of weeks. The Dan echo adds a harshness to my ears but the main prob. I've had with the 3 or so I used was the unreliability of the jacks, which were plastic and unreliable if I'm remembering properly.

To me the "rockabilly" sound is a composite of whatever elements you like best (used in that style & early R&R over the years.) At first a lot of original players live were playing through a lot of tweed amps without any reverb or echo and the overall volume was pretty low. The original "That's allright Mama" Sun 78 didn't even have echo, which RCA added later. That being said, my favorite rockabilly guitar sound is Scotty Moore's (echosonic/gibson) solo on the studio version of "Shake, Rattle & Roll." I've never heard anybody get that sound exactly, but s Fulltone TTE gets really close.

If you are going for a happier medium (between most 50's/early 60's R&R, Sun & stuff like Gallop-style reverby with quick repeat,) a pre-cbs blackface AA763 circuit & an old DMMan covers most of the bases. For cheap $ and for reliabilty get a low-watt single-ended amp with a 6v6 or 6l6 & pretty much any rugged analog delay. I've not heard any reverb (digital) delay pedal that doesn't sound noticeably wrong in one way or another, I'd shy away from those until you have a chance to get tube driven reverb in an amp. Helps to have flatwounds too. Don't get fooled by the hype of some of the expensive boutique companies. Nothing sounds exactly right except for a tape echo, but stay away from digital pedals if you can.

guitardedzen
April 11th, 2010, 01:14 AM
1955, that was some sound and detailed advice and I thank you for it. Gonna be probably talking a bit further in depth with you about your suggestions as you seem to be a bit of a tona-phile. :)

Charlie Bernstein
April 11th, 2010, 02:31 PM
I use both of these. Nice prices, built to last, and they sound great - warm, quiet, theatrical. Check out the sound samples:

http://www.vendio.com/stores/HermidaAudio/item/effects-pedals/reverb/lid=2384688

http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=366&pmh=products/p_and_e

Charlie Bernstein
April 11th, 2010, 02:33 PM
....With any pedals that gig a lot, you have to contact-clean the jacks every couple of weeks....

If folks will forgive just a very quick hijack question, how do you contact-clean jacks?

Brian blaut
April 13th, 2010, 02:22 AM
If folks will forgive just a very quick hijack question, how do you contact-clean jacks?

I use this on my cables about once a year:

http://www.noteworthyaudio.co.uk/deoxit_d5.jpg

ruger9
April 13th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Tons of great delays that KILL for slap out there, from the cheapie Dano BLT (awesome, actually), to the best analog slap I've ever heard the Maxon AD-999 ($329 new?).

Anyway, I think that those OLD Sun recordings either had echo AND delay on them, OR the echo contraption they used also produced some delay as well, because what I hear on those old recordings is a slap followed by a small reverb tail. When I want to get that old Sun sound, I use a pedal for slap, then dial in a touch of reverb at the amp.

I ALL you want is SLAP, nothing any longer than that, the BLT has the perfect slap dialed in. Seriously, it's what I would use if all I wanted was slap.

Also, for anyone who's interested, there's a REVERB pedal out there that seems to have a built-in slap, and sounds ALOT like those old Sun records, all by itself. The slap element isn't strong, but it's definitely there. Sounds like one of the old "oil can" echo/reverbs. It's the Neunaber WET reverb. Nails the Sun thing.

One of our TDPRI members with an Oil Can ReverbEcho:
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1955
April 13th, 2010, 08:40 AM
Hi everyone again, I am brand new here and have really benefited from all of the advice in this forum. Thank you for solving so many problems for me and figured I'd do a couple posts with my 2 cents if it may help somebody too! I don't know that much, but I've learned a lot out of trial & error through many gigs and always appreciate it when somebody explains something from their own experience so that I don't have to find out the hard way if something is bogus or over-hyped or undependable.


The way I usually clean my jacks and all of my cords/mics, etc. is with something like CRC QD electronic cleaner No. 05103 which you can get at Wally World, Lowes (I think) or your local hardware store .

I spray a quick squirt into the jack, then I take a few cotton swabs bunched in one hand and spray them pretty good for a second on one side at a time (watch getting it on your skin) or so over my little trash can under the coffee table. (And if you have room under your sofa/fouton, that's a great place to put shoe-boxes for all of your guitar tools and stuff so that you can change strings on the sofa while watching the tube and such.) Then I just go inside of the jacks and work around with one or two swabs per jack.

Sometimes I'll quickly blow a little in there too. I try to be carefull not to get any cotton leftovers in the jacks. I also tighten the nuts if they are really loose being carefull not to overtighten. This might not be the right method and someone with more technical know-how than me might know a better way. This was just something I learned the hard way.

When there is moisture like sweat or rain, hot/cold, bars, etc., all of your quarter inch plugs, guitar input jacks, mics, xlr cables, mixer/amp inputs can and do get oxidized or just dirty and things will start shorting out on you when you're in the middle of a gig. I have to be really vigilant myself, but others in less humid enviroments or those who keep their gear in a clean dry place most of the time don't have to worry about this nearly as much. I got turned onto using the contact cleaner by a guitar tech and maybe there is something better out there to use, all I know is it works for me.

To get back to the original post, I'd like to also state that everybody should use whatever works for them. I am not a very good player and the reliabilty of gear is paramount to whether it is analog/expensive, etc.

Danny Gatton sometimes (I've heard) played through a Chandler digital echo but I know he also used delay pedals (don't know exactly which one/s.) A player like that could blow most of us away with a mute pedal. I like his rockabilly sound probably better than anybody I've had the pleasure of seeing live. He dialed his delay really Gallup-quick with one repeat and had a very high mix of delay-to-clean. Plus sometimes he played with reverb and sometimes used a leslie, echolplex, etc., which with a blackface amp during certain periods gave his overall sound a more early-to-mid-60's quality in my opinion.

I think the main thing to remember about all of these gizmos is that the original guys in rockabilly really didn't use much of this stuff live. Scotty Moore used the echosonic on only 1 or 2 songs like "Mystery Train" at Sun, and then on the later RCA stuff if I remember correctly, but only right at the end of the Sun stuff. The new building's studio had a totally dfifferent sound and had overdubbing, reverb, you name it.

We have listened to all these records and want to create this sound, but the sound we are thinking of is based on so many variables like studio room size, reverb chambers, Bigsby's etc.

The first Sun studio room had very nice acoustics that definitely colored the overall sound as far as ambience and Sam Phillip's tape delay method just emphasized this. I'm pretty sure they didn't have an emt plate or chamber. But when Sun turned over the masters to RCA, they really changed the heck out of the dubs before they re-released them by adding their own echo and/or reverb. They really didn't know how to get the Sun sound and that's why songs like "Heartbreak H," were recorded using a stairwell or hall, etc. Songs that did have a prominent Phillip's delay like "Blue Moon of Kentucky" got slapped with even more junk at RCA, so until just a couple of years ago some of the early Presley sides sounded really drenched. If I listen to an Blue Caps record, it is almost miles away from the early Sun rockabilly and yet it's still rockabilly.

Players as different as Eddie Bush or Brian Setzer both share some things in common, but the main point is that rockabilly players today are trying to get a sound or part of a sound that is a composite of all kinds of different studio and live recordings. But we are using gadgets that weren't invented until years after the first rockabilly records were made. Also there are great players everywhere that use all kinds of stuff from digital to oil cans and such and they usually sound good no matter what amp or pedals they are using.

That's why there are no strict rules on the sound. Everybody who likes rockabilly usually likes R&R or R&B, early country, western swing, etc. It really doesn't matter what you play through, at least from the audience's perspective (unless there are a lot of guitarists in the audience.) It's whether you capture aspects of that basic spirit in your overall effect. I play a lot of rockabilly songs, I wouldn't say I have a specific sound because 1 I'm not that good and 2 I like all kinds of R&R/music.

Having pedals fail on me or trick me with their hype has made me a little more selective with what I personally use, and I've used everything from Tape echos to Carl Martin, Boss gigadelay, 80's & 90's analog, Fulltone, Digitech, Boss, Keeley, old Fender units, etc. The old deluxe MM is a huge pedal. But it is still on my board. Most of the other pedals I got rid of and there are lots of reasons.

Reliabilty is the most important issue hands down. Then you get into sound, price, etc. I 've used the BLT and I've used the TTE. They are both great if they sound good to your ears but more importantly that they don't break on you in the middle of a gig. I have to epoxy and electric-tape George L's because they will short out on you if you gig a lot or are rough on them. (And no, it's not because I didn't put them together right.) On the other hand I've only broken 1 Monster cable. I use both here and there but I have become paranoid with the George L's, reissue Fender amps, etc. That does affect your ability to be relaxed while you are playing. If something like a Digitech has some crazy amount of digital noise or hiss, what good is it? The Peterson strobostomp busted on me in 2 weeks. Because it had plastic jacks. I now use the TU2 which worked fine before and works fine still.

So that's my opinion and hope it helps somebody, if even a little, to not spend a ton on stuff they are going to be trading back in at a huge loss within a year or two because it doesn't do what companies or people say it does.

The main focus I think is to play as much as you can, and then get reliable gear that you can afford that's close enough to what you want to do. No toy is going to make or break you unless it breaks!

SirJackdeFuzz
April 13th, 2010, 01:31 PM
FULLTONE TUBE TAPE ECHO


thank me later

guitardedzen
April 13th, 2010, 02:29 PM
FULLTONE TUBE TAPE ECHO


thank me later

For the price of a new tele it can be yours! :lol: although I'm sure it's legit and the real deal. Would love to have one, and I will thank you later after you loan out that $1200.00 that it'll take to have one of those parked next to my amp :)

With that being said....and the drool mopped up from the keypad. Yeah I want one of those. Do you have one and if so give us a review.

SirJackdeFuzz
April 13th, 2010, 04:55 PM
For the price of a new tele it can be yours! :lol: although I'm sure it's legit and the real deal. Would love to have one, and I will thank you later after you loan out that $1200.00 that it'll take to have one of those parked next to my amp :)

With that being said....and the drool mopped up from the keypad. Yeah I want one of those. Do you have one and if so give us a review.


Sadly, just like you, i too want one . . . but ther are too many things i need first :cry:

Uma Floresta
April 13th, 2010, 05:17 PM
http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/nov07/images/BossRE-20.jpg

http://www.k-audio.eu/obrazky/boss/frv_1.jpg

SirJackdeFuzz
April 14th, 2010, 06:56 AM
Thinking about the price of the Fulltone TTE . . .

. . . another all-in-one alternative will be the EHX DMM.


http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/9/l_d5931c8041e64c5aa3c2459746d6b82a.jpg

GREAT unit for some seriouslly tasty slap back.