2010 TDPRI $210 Challenge - Roll the Dice

A bit late, but I’m in. I’m not completely sure which direction this build will go which is why there are a couple of different wood types shown. What is sure is that with my limited experience I will need plenty of help from the experts here, especially if I attempt a neck build (not sure about that yet). As a note on my prior experience…a year ago I barely knew which end of the screwdriver did what….really. With the help of all those posting on this forum I was able to complete one scratch build taking about 3 months.

Below are the required raw material pictures. At this point I believe the ash (3 middle boards) will be the ones used instead of the reclaimed pine on the right. The only thing sure to be incorporated in the build is the dice. Ebay listed some vintage bakelite dice confiscated from an illegal gambling joint on Jacksboro Hwy outside of Ft. Worth Texas in the ‘50’s (also posted were 3 magic beans). The dice pictured aren’t them…but I liked the story and the idea of using them as knobs.

I had many questions early on regarding the overall cost of tools used to complete a build. The tools used in this build along with the actual amount paid for them.

Here are the pictures:

Welcome on board! The lumber looks pretty, and when you got the knobs, you got the most important bits of a git-tar, right?
Right!

Thanks! At least having the knobs ensures on part of the build will be correct and functional.

Should be able to get started on the body this weekend and post more pictures as I go.....

Well, the most difficult part is over, deciding what direction to take the build. I’ve decided to use the ash lumber, stained with a medium walnut/tobacco stain. I will also use the same stain in the grain filler. I will leave the pickup cavities open using only a half pickguard and a neck p/up without the chrome cover. This along with the vintage dice should give this tele a somewhat “rustic” look (not reliced). Here are the first pictures. Cutting the ash into 3 pieces, costing $6.66 purchased enough for 3 bodies @ $19.99 from Ebay. Using the jointer to clean the edges for gluing and choosing the 3 (of 10) to be used in this project.

Here are some of the parts I will be using. The two sets of pickups shown probably will not be used unless the build has a cost overrun. The set with the chrome neck cover totals $ 10.00 purchased on Ebay some time ago. The other set is used GFS overwounds. I’ve ordered a set of Keystones and hope to use them if all other costs remain in line. The loaded control plate purchased from Ebay at $8.50, blank nut at $2.00, neck plate at $1.00, bridge at $14.00, ferrules at $6.00, output jack at $2.00, vintage dice $4.50, strap knobs at $2.00, Bakelite for the pickguard at $1.00. These, along with the ash and the Keystones for $57.00 equals $104.66.

As you can see this is not a McGiver build. More of a Radar O’Reily buy/swap/bargain build.

The final posting for the day, and possibly the week, as my job requires travel. The first picture is the 3 pieces of ash being glued. While that was drying I started roughing out the neck templates (including one for a strat).

I've only been able to get a little bit more done so far this week. In the prior clamping photo's you can see that I had two boards clamped to the top and bottom of the ash to keep it flat...you can see in the following photo this didn't happen. It seems the three peices of ash have shifted up and down requiring more planing than I had hoped for. The ash lumber before planing was 1.75 inches and after is 1.64. As I understand it, the standard size switch probably will not fit now.

Question...what is the best way to keep the wood from sliding when clamping and what are the best (and cheapest) shorter switches?

Here is the body after bandsawing. You can see where the 3 boards shifted. I also didn’t saw as close to the template lines as possible so I will use the spindle sander to get closer before using the router.

I used the spindle sander on the body to get closer to the lines....

And then used the router....but not before checking the handy dandy router instruction (directional) card.

After the routing I then went back to the spindle sander to remove some burns and tear outs. A note to those living "up north"; the leaves you see in the backround are what is left after bagging 85 large yard bags of leaves so far this spring. It's the only time of year I regret having 8 oak trees on my property.

looks good, keep it up!

It's the only time of year I regret having 8 oak trees on my property.

I love ours too. in a couple weeks it will be a great big hand casting a cool shadow over the entire yard. squirrels love them too. I bet there is a dozen that live there.

tootles - jb

Lookin good Jim! Keep it goin brother

I love ours too. in a couple weeks it will be a great big hand casting a cool shadow over the entire yard. squirrels love them too. I bet there is a dozen that live there.

tootles - jb

Dozenzzzzz! Becomes quite the feeding frenzy for the hawks around here.

Lookin good Jim! Keep it goin brother

Thanks Russmon and oramac

Well, it's time to move to the routing phase. As this was only the second body I've used a plunge router on I had my concerns about getting it right. On my first and only other scratch build I had several...shall we say mishaps (and I'm not counting the numerous templates that were ruined). Before routing I used the drill press to "hog" out a lot of the wood and then used the router.

It seem I tore a chunk out of the control cavity...again, I did this the last time too.

As I have mentioned my only other build a couple of times now, maybe I should post a couple of pictures. Although I didn't find this forum until April/May last year the contest threads were the catalyst that encouraged me to attempt one myself. Without the many helpful members most of us noobs would still be wondering which end of the screwdriver did what. Many thanks!

Wow! I'm very impressed! Your first effort you say? You sure you weren't a guitar builder in a former life?

Thanks! I'm very happy with it even though there were many errors made while building it....but learned a lot doing it. It even came in under $90 nitro finish and all.

The next step is the output jack hole

And then on to the string holes.

And now for the moment of truth. Does everything fit right????? I place a neck in the neck pocket and register the bridge through the string holes and hope it lines up.

A few pictures of the wiring channels to complete the routing portion of the build. Glad that's over...routing makes me nervous.

Going back and looking at the post it appears the ferrule holes and round over pictures were inadvertently forgotten. Here they are. As a note on the ferrule holes they are very uneven as you can see. I used the jig with the centering pin as described in this site and in Ron Kirns book and the drill press bit and the pin lined up perfectly before and after drilling, but the holes still came out crooked. The only thing I could think of is that the board used for the jig was slightly warped when I looked at it closely.

Only the roundover remains.

The next step for me is to sand the body. Before I post the pictures, let me say that when they announced the contest and that it would be over two months long I thought that to be an ample amount of time. I am finding it difficult to find the time to focus totally on the build (I’m sure this is true for you guys also). I’m going to have to hustle to get this done by May. Just thought I would throw that in there as the sanding seemed to take longer than any other step so far…

In the first pictures I think I found out what router chatter is. Thought that filling it with wood filler would do the trick, but after sanding it down some found it to be UGLY and decided to sand it completely out.

Began sanding with 100 grit, 150, 220 and then 320. Next I dampened the body to “whisker” it and lightly sanded with 320. I actually have made more progress the last couple of days but my wife has the camera and the pictures are still loaded in it (I hope).

Good call on not filling the chatter with wood filler.

You will find that wood filler shrinks over time, and will sink your finish in. Also, you will apply the filler, and when you sand it back smooth, the hairs of the chatter will grab the sand paper and work the filler out like a pry bar.

During this contest there has been some amazing things done with minimal tools, I even think I saw someone cutting a body out with a coping saw! I am much too lazy for that and certainly don’t have that much extra time. When first starting this hobby I wondered if it would be possible to obtain (enough) power tools to do the builds without breaking the bank, and searched the threads for ideas. Buying used (ebay etc.) seemed risky but buying new would require a couple thousand dollars minimum, which was not an option. Strangely enough, my wife turned me on to a reconditioned power tool store at an outlet mall. The following tools if bought new would have cost (from lowes, home depot) over $1500.00, but at the outlet store with a full year warranty was under $600.00. I don’t know if this is helpful but I highly recommend recon tools.

Not shown with these pictures but also purchased recon are a 2 hp plunge router and a couple of sanders.

With a year warranty it would be hard to go wrong, looks like you got a nice setup for a great price...

Love the grain on that body. Great work.

Love the grain on that body. Great work.


Thanks, I was able to stain the body and the grain really pops. The wife took the camera yesterday to Epcot to see Peter Noone aka Hermans Hermits (yes, she is a Noone-atic) so was unable to post those pictures. I should be able to post some more later today if I can wrestle the camera from her.

The wife took the camera yesterday to Epcot to see Peter Noone
Tell her to join the forum and post those pics! :grin:

Good call on not filling the chatter with wood filler.

You will find that wood filler shrinks over time, and will sink your finish in. Also, you will apply the filler, and when you sand it back smooth, the hairs of the chatter will grab the sand paper and work the filler out like a pry bar.

Thanks, here are the pictures that show what it looked like after sanding the chatter out. As I planned to stain and not paint the body the wood filler just wouldn't cut it.

Tell her to join the forum and post those pics! :grin:

She probably would! But I was able to get the camera and here are some of the pictures from Flower Power.

I spy a......Telecaster

After tons of sanding it is time to stain. I used reranch dyes (dissolved in alcohol), dark walnut, tobacco and medium brown.

and then rubbed it down a couple of times with denatured alcohol to lighten it up some.

There are a couple of voids in the knots of this body. Should I fill them with super glue, grain filler or something else? What is the best way to handle this?

Time to start posting the neck work. This will be my first neck built from scratch. As such, it seems safer to have a plan b (and c). Plan B is this economy neck from GFS, just in case I am unable to complete my neck before the deadline.

Plan A is to complete a neck cut from this slab of maple. There is enough lumber to complete 4 necks. The plan for this neck is for it to be a one piece but minus the truss rod. I want to take it one step at a time...

If that goes well, and time permitting, I would like to try a second neck with the very rustic looking (heavy mineral stains) flamed maple using a non adjustable truss rod and fret board. There are three options on the fret board. Cocobolo, Bocote and a Rosewood board from stewmac. This would be the ideal option for the total rustic look that's planned.

There are a couple of voids in the knots of this body. Should I fill them with super glue, grain filler or something else? What is the best way to handle this?

Just leave 'em, it fits to the style and adds character! Also, you'll never get that stain sorted out if you put anything in there (unless your name is George Frank :wink:).

This is going to be one beautiful guitar! That wood is just plain nice!!! All of it!

Thanks CJ. I have to say that your build is beyond beautiful! Great work!

After looking over the rest of the wood scattered around the garage I found a piece of flamed maple that would make a nice neck. I am listing all options as working on several necks at a time seems like the right thing to do (given my propensity for screw ups). All options other than the first will utilize a non adjustable truss rod from stewmac and fretboard. I will document the first one piece maple neck that I'm using to learn on until (if/when) another option is chosen.

This is the one piece plain maple slab that will be my first neck. Here we go, baby steps...

Shaping the headstock.

*note to self - When using the bandsaw to thin the headstock remember to leave thick enough to sand down. After rough sanding, the headstock is thinner than any other headstock measured, although the finish still needs to be accounted for. In the future, the spindle sander may be the best option for this work from the start?

Roughing in the fret slots, spacing the position markers and installing the markers.

My 77 year old dad jumped in to hold the neck for me...can you tell he's a N.Y. Yankee fan? He is asked where ever he goes if he played for the Yankees (see the rings and watch), he answers they are World Series rings and he's in the hall of fame. What a joker.

Another note to self. Pay closer attention when drilling marker holes. Frets 17 and 19 are a little off, good thing this is a semi-practice neck. I say practice as the more mistakes made the more probable another option will be used.

During this contest there has been some amazing things done with minimal tools, I even think I saw someone cutting a body out with a coping saw! I am much too lazy for that and certainly don’t have that much extra time. When first starting this hobby I wondered if it would be possible to obtain (enough) power tools to do the builds without breaking the bank, and searched the threads for ideas. Buying used (ebay etc.) seemed risky but buying new would require a couple thousand dollars minimum, which was not an option. Strangely enough, my wife turned me on to a reconditioned power tool store at an outlet mall. The following tools if bought new would have cost (from lowes, home depot) over $1500.00, but at the outlet store with a full year warranty was under $600.00. I don’t know if this is helpful but I highly recommend recon tools.

I have lots of reconditioned tools and have never had a problem with them.

The very best way to fill those voids is with a two part epoxy. That way it won't add funky colors to your already stained body. It will simply fill them in with an almost clear liquid. So the character of the knots is still there, but it wont allow moisture to settle in there and expand the cracks.

Another note to self. Pay closer attention when drilling marker holes. Frets 17 and 19 are a little off, good thing this is a semi-practice neck. I say practice as the more mistakes made the more probable another option will be used.

Don't worry. On my first build I put two side dots on the 10th fret instead of the 12th. Woops!

No one will ever mistake it for a real Fender. But it plays just fine.

The more mistakes the more you learn...

The very best way to fill those voids is with a two part epoxy. That way it won't add funky colors to your already stained body. It will simply fill them in with an almost clear liquid. So the character of the knots is still there, but it wont allow moisture to settle in there and expand the cracks.

Thanks for the info. I filled them today with the two part epoxy...probably should have filled them a second time before using the grain filler as they seen to have settled in. As 68thinline just said, "the more mistakes you make the more you learn".

Here are a couple of pictures of the grain filling process. I mixed the dyes directly into the grain filler instead of diluting them with alcohol first. The dyes used were, dark walnut, tobacco and orange.

I did this on a body bought on ebay and it turned out great.. I liked the way you could see the subtle hint of the colors used in the dyes (multiple browns, green, orange, and red). I mixed until about 99% of the granules dissolve in the filler then apply, followed by wiping down with a terry towel soaked in mineral spirits. This seems to dissipate and spread the remaining granules within the grain itself with a great effect. It’s visable to the naked eye but didn’t seem to come though in the photos

It seems to me the stain was absorbed unevenly across the body. The two pictures in post 41 and the picture below show it. The sides of the body also have a couple of "stripes" of lighter shading particularly around the contours. Does this indicate more sanding was needed?

Well back to working on the neck for a while. I started contouring the back of the neck using a 3/8th roundover bit. As this is the first neck build attempted it seemed appropriate to try multiple tools to see which felt and worked best for me. First up: the spindle sander, then the belt sander and then the random pattern sander (off and on). The rasp and files actually worked very well and were not nearly as time consuming as one might think. The majority of the shaping was accomplished using these tools. In fact, using the hand sander created a dip in the middle of the neck (I’m certain it was the sander and not the operator). The wood file proved the easiest way to level this error out.

The neck at the nut is .89" and at the 12th fret is .99 after this rough sanding. I used a 9.5 in radius block to radius the fret board.

A few months ago some on this forum posted this link to a neck build. It has been very useful.

Sorry. Here's the link.


http://ahandkerchiefsandwich.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/building-a-one-piece-stratocaster-neck-part-1/

Interesting. The guy building that one piece Stratocaster neck is using the same anchor I used in a one piece neck thread I started a few months before his blog. Maybe he reads this forum.............. or maybe he doesn't.

......http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jwells393/Neck%20Building/KnurledNut.jpg

However if building a one piece heel adjust neck, I think an anchor like this one on the Warmoth vintage style truss rod is a much better idea. It could be easily made by taking a short piece of 3/8 in. steel rod. Drill it ...... tap it and file notches in it.

......http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jwells393/Neck%20Building/WarmothVintageTrussRodAnchor.jpg

Interesting...my next neck build will definitely include an adjustable truss rod. Will be looking you up.

I was able to get some more done today. After applying several coats of true oil to the body I will let it sit for a few days before installing the electronics. Given the “rustic” look intended from the beginning I am very happy with the result so far. I still would like to know about the uneven staining for future builds without a rustic theme. I had sanded extensively (so I thought) or is it just the wood that absorbed the stain differently? Just curious.

Here you can see the neck has had the fret slots and nut slot cut in. The nut slot is way thick but the bone blanks I have are even thicker so no harm done. Now I’m ready (or not) to install the frets. I pre-cut, then hand radius the frets slightly and then lay them upon the neck.

Using the fret press caul to install the frets.

It seems to me the stain was absorbed unevenly across the body. The two pictures in post 41 and the picture below show it. The sides of the body also have a couple of "stripes" of lighter shading particularly around the contours. Does this indicate more sanding was needed?

Getting a pure uniform staining appearance is actually more of chore than most people assume. Varying grain patterns will absorb stain at different rates, and if you wipe it on a little heavy here or there will reflect on the final result. You can actually buy stain toners to put on the wood before staining which limits stains absorbtion and you get a much more uniform appearence.

Jack I bought those same brass anchors to make single action truss rods because that is simply what I could find at Lowes parts bin box. Then I read your thread and saw you suggested those warmoth deals instead. I have been doing as you suggest, tapping and filing a rod to create a similiar rod anchor.

My wife put her considerable bargain hunting skills to good use this week. Our neighbor down the street is remodeling what appears to be his fireplace (a lot of bricks) and placed out by the road a 4”x 9”x 7’ mantle/beam. My wife insisted we pick it up immediately because it would “make a lot of bodies”. I think she’s right…it wound up being about 18 board feet of what might be pine. Gotta love it when the wife approves of the hobbies.

Put this free wood with the hardware and pickups retained after selling the neck and body of a MIM Tele. Bought the Tele at the local music store a few weeks back, sold the neck and body for $10 profit and kept the hardware and pickups. These two “acqusitions” make the next build virtually cost free.

Getting a pure uniform staining appearance is actually more of chore than most people assume. Varying grain patterns will absorb stain at different rates, and if you wipe it on a little heavy here or there will reflect on the final result. You can actually buy stain toners to put on the wood before staining which limits stains absorbtion and you get a much more uniform appearence.

Many Thanks! This is a great help. Jim

A few more pictures to keep things moving. Time to drill the dice and attach them to the control plate. Nothing special here... just hold the dice with channel locks and mark the drill bit with tape to keep from drilling all the way through. I am using a control plate "as is" that was bought off ebay. This plate has the dime size pots (these will be changed at a later date) and the dice/knobs were drilled accordingly. Looks like a "natural".

Next up, the pickguard. I traced the body/pickup routed areas and then outlined the desired (half) pickguard shape. trimmed the outline from the paper and laid the rough cut on the guitar body to size it up. Glued it to 1/2" mdf preparing it for the bandsaw.

Next cut the mdf shape on the bandsaw and sanded the perimeter smooth. Attached the "bakelite" material to the mdf template and shaped it on the router, followed by using a 1/8" roundover bit

Look what just arrived. The Bill and Becky Keystones.

Lookin' good NICE pups!

Lookin' good NICE pups!

Thanks, didn't think they would get here in time so I was excited when I found them in the mailbox.

Now I just had to lay them out to see what the finished product might look like. Keeping in mind that the neck is unstained and unfinished and might not even be used if the other one (with fretboard) is completed in time. Couldn't be happier with the neck pocket fit!

Brought my wife out to look at it and her first statement was "it's beautiful", but added shortly after, "but how will it sound?" Seems everybody is a critic!

Very nice, that grain was pretty amazing before the dye. Have to agree with your wife, beautiful!

Got little more done on the neck last night, hope to get more done tonight. Tried a couple of different tints on some of the maple neck cut offs. The reranch aerosol neck tint looked a little too yellow for my tastes but the powder amber mixed with denatured alcohol looked pretty good (after several mixture tries). Found out once again that more sanding was needed after applying the tint. Guess I should have rubbed the neck with mineral spirits before tinting to identify the uneven sanding areas.

I will finish the current neck (the so called practice neck) but once completed will try to finish this flamed maple neck with a Cocobolo fret board. Time is running out!

Put 4 coats of tru oil on the neck and looks pretty good (if you don't count the blotchy areas :lol:) Also sprayed several coats of lacquer on the pickguard. Good time to spray lacquer in central Florida with the humidity around 50% the last couple of days. Seems like we only get about 4 days a year under 95%.

Invited to a friends house this evening for dinner. They have another friend visiting from out of town who builds mandolins (and acoustic guitars) for a living. When they mentioned what I'm doing, he suggested I bring my build with me and he would critique it. I had to look him up on line.....

http://www.altmanguitars.net/instruments.html

Guess he knows what he's doing at $9,950.00 a pop with 10 to 12 month wait. I'll be taking a lot of notes tonight!

Got a little more done on the second neck. The first one piece is complete and can be used if this one isn't completed on time. Marked the fret slots then lined up the center lines of both pieces and drilled the holes to for the pins to keep the fret board from swimming when being glued.

Cut the fret and nut slots then used the acrylic urethane caulk to secure the non adjustable truss rod.

Then aligned the pins and pin holes in the fret board and glued them together.

It's hot out there! Unable to complete the second neck so I will level and dress the frets on the first (the so-called practice neck) as well as make a nut. Lost some of the pictures (???) using the fret rocker and marking the high spots on the frets, oh well. Of course it all begins with taping the fret board. Here are the tools used to dress and level. I was surprised at the effectiveness of just using sandpaper for much of this process.

Next steps, mark radius and string spacing on bone nut blank, then rough in string slots.

Installed the tuners and the output jack cup then began wiring. The control plate was purchased from ebay and other than adding a pio capacitor nothing else was added. The existing wiring did not resemble any diagram I have seen so far and did not function on the middle position when tested, so had to rewire the complete rig.

Don't know why the pictures didn't post...but here they are.

The decal. The name Feral was given to our dog by my son over 18 years ago. She proved a pedigree was totally unnecessary to be (as my wife says) the best dog ever. From the beginning this build had a rustic theme, and certainly no pedigree, which fits right in with the definition of Feral:

'Existing or returned to a wild(e) or untamed state, having a rugged, unkempt appearance or suggestive of a wild(e) animal; savage'

Here's the damage so far:

Body $ 6.67 Ebay $19.99 / 3 = $6.67
Neck $ 2.50 Ebay $9.99 / 4 = $2.50
Fret Dots $ 4.46 Stewmac
Frets $ 4.01 Stewmac $44.43/11 = $4.01
Nut $ 2.00 Ebay
Neck Plate $ 1.25 Ebay Lot of 20 for $25.00
Tuners $ 21.95 GFS
Strings $ 4.00 Music Center
String Ferrules $ 5.93 Stewmac
String Trees $ 1.41 Stewmac $2.81/2 = $1.41
Control Plate $ 7.26 Ebay
Control Knobs $ 5.00 Ebay
Out Put Jack + Cover $ 9.62
Stewmac (electrosocket) and Ebay (jack)
Neck Pick Up $ 28.00 Bill Lawrence neck p/up
Bridge Pick Up $ 29.00 Bill Lawrence bridge p/up
Bridge $ 8.00 Ebay
Pick Guard $ 2.00 Mcmaster Carr
Strap Knobs $ 0.99 Ebay
Screws $ 4.00 Ebay
Filler $ 4.00 Reranch
Tru oil $ 6.00 Woodcraft
$ 158.41

What a learning experience this was...especially working on the neck. Made a lot of mistakes which I'll talk about in a bit under the posting of "the good, the bad and the ugly". But first, the finished product. Sorry about the picture quality, it does not do close ups very well. The first thing bought for next years contest is a new camera.

I can only upload 4 pictures at a time, here's more.

and more....as I've only built 2 tele's from scratch, just couldn't resist posing them together.

The good. I really liked the way the turned out looks wise. It's just as hoped for. It's sounds great! The Keystone pups are as advertised and enjoyable even for someone with my limited playing capability (think of me as Jimmy Strummer). The best part though is the amount learned from this build and from looking in on the rest of the builders. 68thinline said it best earlier "the more mistakes made the more you learn". In that case, I learned a ton!

The Bad. A broken bolt in the bridge will have to be drilled and removed. It doesn't affect playability and the bridge is stable but what a pain in the butt. There is fret buzz and fret out on the treble strings between the 9th and 12th frets. I let it sit overnight and is much improved so I will let it sit another day or two before re-leveling the frets. I'm not sure if I had installed a truss rod if this would have been an issue.

The Ugly. Almost all of these issues could have been avoided if the "measure twice cut once" rule had been followed. There is a misalligned tuner hole which throws the whole tuner row off. The 17th and 19th fret dots misalligned and the 18th, 19th and 20th fret slots are slightly crooked. All of these errors have not been repeated in the second neck currently being built. Seems an old dog can be taught new tricks. All I have to say is...can't wait till next year! See you then.