Fender Super 60,112 & 210 Owners! [Archive]

kitschking

May 25th, 2010, 03:28 AM

Hi, Ive had my S60 from about 1990, I have a review for it from a 1989 Guitar Player mag (email me for a copy) that said the designer was Mark Wentling. I tracked him down and emailed him for info and he kindly supplied this...

Thank you for your email.

I’d be happy to answer any questions about the Super 60.

It followed the Champ 12, and The Twin, all made during my time at Fender from 1985 to mid 1989.

Paul Rivera left Fender prior to the management buyout from CBS by Bill Schultz and team, which occurred in March of 1985. I’m not sure of Paul’s actual departure date, but it may have occurred in late 1984, as there was an exodus of people when CBS put the company on the block for liquidation.

I designed the tube amps during this period, including a couple models (early 90s) after I left Fender in the summer of 1989 to become a partner in an export distribution company.

I came to Fender from Music Man, and all of the amp designs from 85 onward were unique from Paul’s designs that were produced prior to that time. Paul actually worked in Fender marketing, and spent much of his time specifying the product designs, while other design engineers in Fender R&D performed the actual product development work. Regardless, Paul always had a hand in the final signoff, and the tweaking of any products produced during his time.

I arrived just in time to move everything from Fullerton to Brea. Mostly sorting out the offices, and packing boxes, while doing a little work on the Champ 12 in between. The original concept for the Champ 12 came from Bill Hughes, (creator of the Ampeg SVT), but I had to heavily modify it to reduce parts count and cost. It needed to be a bare bones design. Bill left Fender in 85 to try working at Peavey in Mississippi, but he returned about a year or so later to rejoin me in R&D.

In the first several months immediately after the buyout from CBS, we had a fair number of CBS built chassis, that were Work-In-Process (WIP) units that came out of the CBS factory just prior to the Fullerton shut-down.

We purchased cabinets locally in Placentia and people in our Brea warehouse set up a small assembly line where they completed some Concerts, and I believe some Deluxes, and Champs. These were Rivera amps, with black faces and numbered knobs. They were sold in 85, maybe some still left in 86, however the chassis’s were actually built back in 84 before CBS closed the Fullerton factory. These amps were sold through our distribution channels to generate cash flow, but I don’t believe that they were ever actually marketed as our formal product line-up. I’m not sure.

We also scrapped a lot of WIP electronics because we did not have the space to hold all of it. Various amplifier chassis, ARP Chroma Synthesizers, Rhoads Piano parts, etc.

Paul is a good friend of mine. He actually spent time tutoring me on amp design when I first arrived at Music Man from MXR Innovations back in 1979. However, he had no involvement with any amplifier designs from at least late 1984 onward.

The red knobs were also the result of a cost cutting effort. The molded knobs were made in Garden Grove and cost about a nickel each ($0.05). The traditional black numbered knobs were about $0.40 each. This could multiply out to a good cost savings on the bigger amps. We were tasked by marketing with coming up with a unique cosmetic look that would differentiate the new Fender amps from the old Fender amps. In part due to the pervasive quality issues of the CBS made stuff.

No one, and I mean no one could agree on the new look. We built up many prototypes, and eventually ran out of time. Finally the word came down to engineering from marketing that we would use the Fender corporate colors of that time which could be found on the business cards and stationary. Red, Grey, and Black. The knobs naturally ended up being red, and we used grey grill cloth. The first protos were airbrushed in red guitar lacquer and looked pretty good, but the production knobs could never match the painted look, and we finally had to move on.

I hope that his information is helpful.

I forgot to mention that the Super 60 itself was a very cost conscious
product.

We were under great pressure to build a tube amp for minimal cost, as one of
our leading competitors was Peavey, and Peavey had a very vertical factory.
Fender only had the SUNN factory which relied on outside vendors for most
component parts, so our costs were higher right from the start. (An
identical amplifier could be made and sold for less from Peavey.)

So the Super 60 could only have the five tubes which was pretty much the
minimum for a 60 Watt amp with switch-able overdrive. Three of the tubes
were for the power amp, leaving only two 12AX7s for the preamp with
switch-able overdrive.

It was difficult to get consistent performance out of so few parts. So there
is some variation from unit to unit, and there are also a couple of parts
that are hand selected at the time of manufacture to compensate for
tolerances in the VACTROLS, potentiometers, and to a lesser extent the
tubes. (Not the most ideal engineering design, but a compromise to get by on
the price.)

So some Super 60s will work better than others.

There was also a rack mounting head version of the same amp with a fan and
and LED level readout, but no speaker.

The Super 60 speaker was the same as the one used in the Twin of that time.
It was our design developed together with Eminence. We only had two 12 inch
speakers then, the heavy duty (used in the Twin etc.) and a light duty (used
in the Champ 12), both from Eminence.

Best regards, Mark

One thing that is bugging me in regards to the dating of the amp, the Electronic Test/Sound test label has two spaces. The Elec Test has a name, but the Sound test has a biro signature that is hard to read, is this a persons sig or a date letter code? There is also a blue sticker on the inside of the cab with AK. Is this a date code or a signature? Anyone know?
Cheers,
Glenn

kitschking

May 26th, 2010, 11:30 PM

I remembered there were two other emails from Mark Wentling, one with general comments about the amp and another with more technical stuff, I asked him some questions that Matti from Finland (hes on here and other Fender forums) asked me to ask him. Hope these may help or be of interest to people...

Hi Glenn,

I am glad to be of some help. I only wish that I had more time to devote to
it. I have fond memories of those days tinkering away on guitar amps.

Now I manage people in an engineering department, and rarely have time to
fire up a soldering iron. Plus today's surface mounted components are too
small to see, much less experiment with.

I think it is really interesting that there are players out there who really
like the Super 60 amps.

Like I said, they were kind of a mixed bag for Fender. Some guys really
liked them while others weren't so sure. Part of that was the inherent
variability from unit to unit due to the bare bones parts count, but I also
learned during those years that there is no such thing as the perfect amp
that can get every popular sound and please every player.

The 60s were solid performers, good output coupled together with a great
speaker that I developed together with Bob Gault (Sr.) at Eminence.

On that amp it was one of the last models to have the PCB laid out manually
with black tape on Mylar using a light table. (The Twin, Dual Showman, and
Champ 12 were done this way as well.)

The people that we had assisting in that part of the product development
were difficult to work with as they did not really understand the nuances of
the electrical designs. At that time upper engineering management at Fender
felt that electrical design engineers were too high paid to perform such
rudimentary work. Regardless, we were not that highly paid, but they
believed in a division of labor. The problem is that in a guitar amp, the
overall layout is just as important as the circuit design. They are one in
the same. Ergo why so people prefer the performance level of handmade
amplifiers.

When I was at Music Man and MXR, we (the design engineers) laid out our own
circuit boards. At Fender they had non-technical drafting people lay out the
PCBs. After a couple of years I was able to change that by helping to bring
in our first CAD design systems together with Cal Perkins. The CAD systems
allowed the engineers to lay out the PCBs directly using a computer, and as
a result they became much better products. The first guitar amps to use CAD
were the 85 and 185 Series solid-state amps.

The Super 60 was a particularly tough case as the guy who was working with
me on that board layout was fairly clueless. He was a technician of sorts
and it was his first project. I had to have him redo his work quite a few
times. After awhile he began to resent all of the redesign work and the
project became contentious. Eventually there came a point where we had to
make a product release, but I never felt that the finished product was as
good as it could have been.

That's another reason why it is so cool that guys like you and Matti are
into the amps 20+ years later.

Some people read way too much into how design decisions were made in some
classic musical instrument products, when 9 times out of 10 it was the
result of a compromise just to get a product out the door. Many times the
compromises were made by non-musicians. Fender, Gibson, Marshall, VOX, are
full of such stories.

I should get back to work now.

Best regards, Mark

and....

Hi Glenn,

A key element of this amplifier design is that it had to be built on a
budget, and so we tried to maximize what could be done in the preamp with
only two 12AX7 tubes.

It becomes a real challenge to make a two tube preamp have a good clean
character and then use the same tubes to make a good overdrive. With more
tubes we could have had more tonal options, plus the amps would be much more
consistent from unit to unit, because component tolerances do not end up
being as apparent in the sound.

This design is very dependent on the tolerances of the two 12AX7 tubes, the
hop-off end resistance of the gain pots, and the VACTROL characteristics.

Some Super 60 models sounded very good, and some sounded not so good. C104 0.68uF does work together with C1 0.22uF to set the low-end bass
characteristics of the clean sound. Within limits you can scale C104
together with C1 by an equal percentage and the two should track closely
resulting in the clean sound remaining virtually unchanged, but doing so
effect the overdrive sound.

C2 0.1uF performs a similar function to C1 at low gain settings while in the
overdrive mode.

C1 (in clean mode) and C2 (in overdrive mode) attenuate the signal above a
frequency let's call it F1. Below F1 the attenuation is greatly reduced,
which effectively acts as a bass boost. C104 begins to increase gain at
roughly the same F1 frequency, effectively acting as a bass cut (or mid-high
boost). The two networks together complement each other resulting in a net
flat response with some remaining bass bump on the very low end.

So if you move both caps by the same percentage amount, the net response
should be about the same within limits. If you double C1 and C104, the clean
channel will be close to the original sound but when the gain is turned up
in overdrive mode, there will be more bass response.

One reason for limiting the bass response in overdrive mode by using the
0.68uF cap, is to keep the overdrive from sounding too flabby and
uncontrolled at very high gain settings.

Using the 0.68 cap however does provide additional gain overall which needed
to be maximized because we only had the two tubes.

If you don't intend to be using extreme high gain settings, (which is
somewhat limited because of the low tube count), you could remove C104 from
the circuit all together. Doing so will remove the effective midrange boost
(bass cut), thereby giving you more low end, plus lower maximum gain
overall.

Remove C104 and then increase C1 to adjust (reduce) the amount of bass in
the clean mode. (Removing C104 will make the clean mode sound bassier due to the loss of mid boost in V102B.) Increasing C1 will move the turnover point
lower effectively reducing bass.

The additional benefit of removing C104 is that the overall gain will be
lower, less midrange, more bass and rubbery, which sounds like what Matti is
looking for.

So you have two alternatives,:

1) Increase C1, C2, and C104 by similar percentages to increase bass in
overdrive mode, but still keep maximum gain, and about the same clean sound.

Or

2) Remove C104 altogether, and increase C1 and C2 to reduce bass in clean
and low-gain overdrive mode to taste. Removing C104 will reduce maximum
overall gain.

> - How to keep the gain pot from cutting bass when it's not at 10?
> - R148, the negative feedback loop resistor? Can it be removed or at least
> its effect decreased?

Yes, as with any Fender power amp like this you can increase R148 or even
remove it. This will decrease the damping of the output stage resulting in a
looser sound with low frequency cone resonance becoming more pronounced, and
a rising high-end characteristic as the speaker impedance rises at high
frequencies.

The downside of doing this is reduced effect of the presence control, as
well as increased noise, and distortion in the output.

Alternatively you can increase C9 from 0.1uF to something much larger, say
10uF, effectively turning the Presence control into a damping control. Just
try it and see how it sounds.

> - Which are the key components in the tone stack and what are sensible value
> limits for them for experimenting?

Anything goes in the tone stack. It is too complex to summarize in an email.
There are many articles online these days. Something we didn't have in the
80s. You can move values up and down and listen to the effect. Just remember
that there is some fairly high DC voltage on the side of the tone-stack
connected to V102B. The caps you use, need to be rated properly (200 VDC
min) and watch your fingers since they will hold charge.

> Thanks for sending him the questions!!
>
> -Matti
>
> Thats about it. I think with these issues solved that will be a great help.
> Thank you for your time, I hope this is not intrusive.
> Yours,
> Glenn Scott

Hope that helps you guys. Have fun.

Best regards, Mark

There you have it,
Cheers,
Glenn

robt57

May 26th, 2010, 11:45 PM

Does a Super pro tube series count, 410

Has a few more tubes than a Super 60, well 4 more.

Is the Super 60 a tube driven reverb like the Super is?
Does it use 1/2 of one of the 12AXs for the reverb ?

2 6l6 60 watt, they must share a lot of the same circuit past the preamp.

Grabbed one a few months back, and it is a great sounding amp.

Does the super 60 do the push pull bright on the 1st channel ??

bluesfordan

May 27th, 2010, 12:22 AM

had a super 60 in snakeskin way back when they were brand new. I think it was my first master volume amp. I remember it was fairly heavy. I also remember a nasty hum, and this was back in the day when even the thought of changing tubes was a technical nightmare better left to overpaid professionals, let alone changing components.

I was interested more in the dirt channel than I was in the clean, so I really don't have anything to say on that side. I was also experimenting with rack effects at the time, so I often played the amp with all sorts of stuff going on. In its defense, I think some of my recordings with it rank up there in my favorite tones yet committed to tape.

think I might have seen my old amp in a store, but I did not bother to try it as I did not have any of my own guitars with me. The next time I was there, it was gone.

kitschking

May 27th, 2010, 02:25 AM

To Robt57

I dont think the Fender Pro Tube series is in the same family, there was the Super 60, the 112 and the 210..all red knobs designed around the 88 - 92 era, yours was from the 93 - 95 era I think.
The 60 is tube driven, 2 6L6's like the Super Pro and has 2 x 12AX7 and a 12AT7 for phase inverter. The reverb is solid state, not tube. One of the AX7 tubes is for the OD channel. it is bought into action when you switch the channel on.

" Does the super 60 do the push pull bright on the 1st channel ?? "

If you mean can a pot be pulled out for brightness, then no, I think maybe the 112 or 210 may have had that...

Hope this helps.
Glenn

robt57

May 27th, 2010, 09:45 AM

ACK

ccuwan

June 2nd, 2010, 01:17 PM

I have both a Super 60 and a Super 210.

Both the Super 210 and the Super 112 have a pull notch filter on the presence knob and a pull bright switch on the clean volume knob. These features are not on the Super 60.

There are in fact 5 models in the series:

Super 60 combo (12 inch Eminence)
Super 60 head
Super 60 rack mount
Super 112
Super 210

We are in very good company with our appreciation of the Super 60

Following is an eBay ad that I have posted elsewhere but saved for just such a forum:

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/amberlynnhead.jpg

Fender Super 60 Aerosmith Brad Whitford
Celebrity Owned Fender Super 60!!

For auction is a Fender Super 60 (Serial # LO-62295) owned by Brad Whitford of Aerosmith. This amp came out of his personal collection, and was played on tour or in the studio. Amp shows road wear, but is in excellent playable condition.

This amp was made by Fender between 1988-1992. Brad used two of these, nicknamed 'Ginger Lynn' and 'Amber Lynn'. This is Ginger. Used live on either 'Pump' or 'Get a Grip' world tours. Amp has a metal 'Property of Aerosmith' tag on the back.

Winner of this auction will receive full documentation (in a limited editon embossed leather case) including a signed Certificate of Authenticity from Brad Whitford and a unique photocard of the amp (similar to the one pictured).

Also included is a limited edition eBay Tour Laminate (see picture) and one of Brad's signature picks.

Amp is sold as it came from the Aerosmith warehouse. It has been inspected by a qualified amp tech, but for originality sake has only had minor if any changes (fuses, etc). The amp is sold AS-IS and guaranteed to not be DOA, but it still may need work at some point.

The amp will be professionally packed and shipped with insurance to an address in the Continental United States and Canada only.
Please check my other auctions in the next month as Brad is clearing out over 30 guitars and over 50 amps/cabinets.

Please note: I do not have any of Joe Perry's or Steven Tyler's gear for sale.

Also, guitartech1 is the only authorized eBay ID selling gear for Brad Whitford of Aerosmith. Beware of scammers. Check the link to my auctions on Aeroforceone.com.(the official Aerosmith website).

This is a link to the Aerosmith site on which Brad is seen with one of his Super 60s
http://www.aeroforceone.com/index.cfm/pk/view/cd/NAA/cdid/1018775/pid/302766

Many have spoken of the weight of these amps and due to my escalating age I have broken my Super 60 into a separate head and 3 different cabs. My primary cab is a Super Reverb size with 4 CTS Alnico speakers that I bought out of a SFSR. I have a second 2x12 cab that I haul around when needed and of course have the original 1x12 cab that the Super 60 combo came in. BTW when you remove the electronics and create a separate head the weight drops from about 55 lbs to about 33 lbs.

This is the head and 4x10 cab I built.......yes I swapped out the red knobs for black:
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/ampcrop.jpg

von spets

June 3rd, 2010, 03:57 PM

jazzblaster

June 17th, 2010, 02:18 PM

This is my first post on this forum, however, I have been a browser for about a year or so. Picking up a Super 60 on a trade this weekend :grin: Super excited!

Jethro

June 18th, 2010, 10:28 AM

ccuwan

June 18th, 2010, 01:58 PM

Thank You Jethro....The sound is very nice too.
Nothing like a 6L6 into 4 cts 10s.

I was very lucky to land the speakers within my cabinet budget.

Jethro

June 21st, 2010, 10:29 AM

Leland105

September 19th, 2010, 09:17 PM

So I just bought a super 60 today from Guitar Center for $220. So far I don't feel like I paid to much for it, but after reading peoples comments they don't seem to like these red knob amps very much. I have been playing it now for about 3 hours and I love it so far. I was just wondering if it would be stupid on my part to gig with this amp as people talk about them being unreliable?

tap4154

September 19th, 2010, 11:20 PM

Leland, I don't think they're unreliable. It's just that you have to be careful about the input jacks, which are plastic, and the pots, that are soldered to a PC board and hard to replace. $220 is a great price IMO if it's in decent shape.

BTW, in case you don't have a manual (likely), the second input jack is 1/2 the sensitivity, if used alone. Good for active pups/acoustic systems etc. If both jacks are being used, both are 100% sensitivity.

Leland105

September 20th, 2010, 09:36 AM

Thanks Tap4154. The amp is in really good shape and couldn't believe this amp was twenty years old. I will try and post some pics this week. yeah I figured out the second input jack and it sounds great with an acoustic but sounds awesome with my semi hollow body ibanez with humbuckers.

RubyRae

September 20th, 2010, 11:04 AM

I'm liking what ccuwan did with his super 60 head! Love the natural wood and 4x10 matching cabinet! Wow that looks sweet, and yes the black knobs lok way better IMO.
Killer twist on a nice amp. Those heads are a bit more rare it seems.
Leland, i think you did good, and will get plent of use and enjoyment out of your amp!
Plenty of things you can do to improve it slightly too. Enjoy!

mattdean4130

September 21st, 2010, 01:24 AM

Wow this threads gone off since i was last here!
Still loving my super 210 - you guys were right i hadn't even realised about the push pull pots, which opened up another world of cool.

Such a beautiful clean amp - but i don't think it dirty's up that nicely compared to some others, although mine has 3xax7's in the preamp instead of 2 and a 12aT7 so maybe that adds a bit of muddyness...

Love the sound of mine with a 4x12 cab, and really love that the internal 10's don't get cut...
I really have to get a picture up of mine. Thanks for that extensive info, sounds like they were a bit of a filler product - didn't seem like fender were that into them. Maybe we've been lucky enough to be left with all the good ones, the dogs went to the trash??

ccuwan

September 21st, 2010, 08:35 AM

sounds like they were a bit of a filler product - didn't seem like fender were that into them. Maybe we've been lucky enough to be left with all the good ones, the dogs went to the trash??

I think they may be Fender's version of the Danelectro where the manufacturer was simply trying to build a low priced product and lucked into something special.

Jethro

September 21st, 2010, 09:22 AM

Jethro

September 21st, 2010, 09:29 AM

BTW Leland,
I personally have not had any issues with reliability....maybe I'm just lucky, but I've taken that thing everywhere....gigs, party's, cottages, plus it's fallen over in the back of my truck....and it's been pretty much bullet proof.

I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it....enjoy

ccuwan

September 22nd, 2010, 01:27 PM

BTW Leland,
I personally have not had any issues with reliability....
Nor have I had any issues......
I've heard the design complaints as well but frankly I have dragged my super 210 around without any problems. If you are concerned, a kit to replace the inputs with switchcraft jacks is available for $18. Have not had the need myself but the jacks are the Achilles heel of these amps.
http://www.torresengineering.com/fesu60jakit.html

mattdean4130

September 23rd, 2010, 08:28 AM

Mines been fine except for a dead tube.. Which just happens anyway...

tap4154

October 3rd, 2010, 09:56 PM

I found the plans for this simple effects loop volume box at FDP. It goes into the effects loop and acts as a master volume (I now know there have been some older threads on them here at TDPRI).

VERY cool for my Super 210 that has no master volume, but two channels that are very tricky to balance in volume for easy switching. From "1" to "1.3" volume on the gain channel goes from quiet to ear-splitting, while the clean channel seems much more analog (audio taper), and with this volume box, now it's very easy to control and balance both channels.

I bought a project box at Radio Shack for $3, already had two 1/4" jacks and a CTS 250K audio taper pot, and I just put the knob from an old Pignose I have (that's been out of service for years) on it.

The "Volume Hog" :mrgreen:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt246/tap4154/VolumeBoxPignose.jpg

The plans:

http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/newland/2081/id3.htm

If you want to just buy one, look for "Omnisonic" on eBay. A guy sells them for about $23 shipped.

Man, I wish I'd known about these years ago! A perfect solution to a two channel (clean/dirty) amp with no master volume. I'd avoided playing this amp for years (and almost sold or traded it recently) because of not having a master volume, and always getting annoyed with trying to balance a good OD tone/volume with the clean channel volume.

I actually can get some great OD tones out of the onboard drive channel now, but in the past if I had the OD channel set well, and turned up the clean channel, I'd have to re-adjust the gain and volume on the OD channel, which was REAL touchy, and annoying (if the OD channel gain is cranked, the OD channel volume pot goes MACRO linear).

Now I just keep the clean channel about wide open, and dial in a good OD tone with the gain and volume on the OD channel that about matches the clean channel's volume (maybe a bit louder), then just turn that effects loop volume box down to around 2 or 3 to play at home. Increasing volume with it smoothly increases both channels equally, so switching back and forth (clean to dirty) is fine at any setting on the volume box.

Stratelcaster

October 18th, 2010, 01:45 PM

Hi all. I have a Fender Wedge 410 cab that I purchased a bit a go. I really didn't have a clue what Fender would have paired this up with since i can find little info about it. However, after viewing these pics of your Super 60's, I can see that the grill cloth matches better than anything else that i've seen. Maybe KitschKing knows if the pairing these two was something that Fender had in mind. The only other time that i've seen a cab like this otherwise was a CL ad for a 4x12 version. I've thought about finding a Super 60 head for it. Either that or it's gonna go up for sale or trade for other gear.

tap4154

October 19th, 2010, 03:52 PM

That sure looks like the same grill cloth, though I think most Super 60 heads have chrome corner protectors. But in any case, I'll bet a Super 60 head would scream through that ;o)

I've been playing more and more with my 210. I've had it some 18 years, but much of that time it sat idle as I played a Champ or even Pignose at home (and 25R the past few years). I'm finally finding that the EQ on the RK Supers works better if you use 0 as a starting point. I've always started at 12:00 (5) on any amp EQ, and tweak back and forth to taste. But with the RK Super, especially in the drive channel, if you start at 0 on treb, mid and bass, then just add a bit of mid and bass, then turn up treble to about 4-5, I get a great, smooth OD tone, even better with notch pulled and on 5. Crank the mids for more punch.

The gain channel has great clean with an edge with the gain about 1-2, and volume up to 5+. Lower the volume and pump the gain up to about 5, drop the presence to -5, and you have another very smooth OD tone (more metal). In other words, it's all about your adjustments on these RK amps. It really has a very wide range of tones available, and the clean channel is just excellent on it's own, with pure headroom to 10. I've read some folks whose clean channel breaks up early. Bad tubes or other issues IMO. Mine won't clip on the clean channel at all, with SC pups.

I'm appreciating this amp more and more (glad I didn't trade it!).

ccuwan

October 20th, 2010, 10:46 AM

I think most Super 60 heads have chrome corner protectors.

actually:
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/amberlynnhead.jpg

Great advice on the setup though. I learned the trick of setting the volume at full and using the treble, mid and bass controls for gain from a post I read a while ago. That approach will really open up this amplifier to great new areas of performance. Anyone else reading this, do try the setups that Tap is proposing. You will be pleasantly surprised. Note that in the picture "Amber Lynn" has the clean volume dimed.

Stratel: That cab is sweet. I run a Super 60 into a 4x10 pine box that I built myself, and it sounds great. The s60 head will be an excellent match. Did Fender run Eminence drivers in that cab and what is the proper name for it. I would like to keep my eyes open for one.

tap4154

October 20th, 2010, 11:07 AM

Duh :rolleyes:

Silly me, not even looking at the previous posts to see Whitford's amp head with black hardware.

Yep, looks like a match made in heaven. If I had that cab I'd HAVE to find a Super 60 head for it, just to make things right in the Universe :mrgreen:

Ccuwan, maybe if you gave Stratel the on-center spacing specs of the feet on your head, he could confirm if they match the "cups" on his cool speaker cab?

Edit: Just found this pic on the My Les Paul forum of a mint Super 60 head on a matching 112 cab:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii96/WASH-HOUSE/DSCF1244.jpg

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squawk-box/63226-red-knob-fender-super-series-any-owners.html

ccuwan

October 20th, 2010, 12:58 PM

Ccuwan, maybe if you gave Stratel the on-center spacing specs of the feet on your head, he could confirm if they match the "cups" on his cool speaker cab

Fact is I have a head unit that I made myself by breaking down a Super 60 combo so the spacing is not factory spec....nice thought though
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/head.jpg

Gypsy Eyes

October 23rd, 2010, 01:05 AM

Glad to see love out there for these amps. I had a Super 60 rack head years ago which I had to sell to pay the bills. Not the greatest dirty channel I remember, but wonderful cleans. Worked great with pedals.

tap4154

October 24th, 2010, 11:46 AM

Fact is I have a head unit that I made myself by breaking down a Super 60 combo so the spacing is not factory spec....nice thought though
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/head.jpg

I'll bet it's close. The same width, at least. Your amp cabinet looks great BTW, and the speaker cab as well. I'd like to make a pine cab for my 210. Probably lose some 10 lbs at least. Particle board is HEAVY.

It really has been a revelation for me to begin at zero on the EQ pots while using the drive channel. I can dime the volume, then just crack the treble, mid and bass to create your tone, and adjust the volume up as well, just with the EQ pots. In fact, treb and mid on zero, with bass on 3 is a great OD tone! The EQ works much differently on the drive channel than it does on the clean channel. In fact with all three EQs on zero, there's no volume (most other amps will have volume and just be muffled, with the EQ pots on zero). I also get a much "beefier" clean sound on the drive channel with the gain on zero. And the notch on 5 just puts it over the top. I wish I'd known about this years ago.

I've found the same tricks work on my 25R gain channel. With treble, mid and bass all on zero, I have a great tweed OD tone on it! Just add in a touch of mids and treble to taste :mrgreen:

Stratelcaster

October 25th, 2010, 06:06 PM

Hey ccuwan..... you can't see from the pics, but the info decal is on the speaker jack. It reads.... "Model 410 Wedge PN 216104, Fender Musical Instruments" I had it paired with a Peavey Classic 50 head, but I suspect that it would sound better with a 6L6 amp instead of EL84's. I've looked on Fender's site for info, but found nothing. While there isn't a Eminence sticker on any of the speakers, that would be my first guess, since KitschKing claimed that that was the standard issue across the board then. Thanks for the comments and info.

tap4154

October 25th, 2010, 07:56 PM

My stock Super 210 speakers don't say Eminence. Just "Fender Special Design", with blue labels.

Do yours look like this?

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt246/tap4154/Super210Speaker.jpg

ccuwan

October 26th, 2010, 12:05 PM

I have a Super 210 as well and the speakers are exactly like the ones Tap posted.

My 4x10 cab has a set of these in it which I think are CTS alnicos. They were harvested from a Silver Face Super Reverb which I believe would make CTS vintage correct.

I think Fender put the "special design" sticker on all speakers in its amps for many years as the original 12" that came with my Super 60 combo had it as well.

Sorry but I forget to check the foot spacing on my Super 60 head.

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm472/ccuwan/DSC05479.jpg

ccuwan

October 26th, 2010, 10:06 PM

The foot spacing on my Super 60 head is 8.25 x 16 inches centre to centre......and yes that is how we spell centre in Canada.

Stratelcaster

November 9th, 2010, 11:06 PM

The sticker on the back of the cab says....." Model 410 Wedge P/N 216104". It is rated at 8 Ohms and looks like Eminence speakers. Good luck finding one, but if you are interested maybe we can talk.

ccuwan

November 10th, 2010, 08:51 AM

The sticker on the back of the cab says....." Model 410 Wedge P/N 216104". It is rated at 8 Ohms and looks like Eminence speakers. Good luck finding one, but if you are interested maybe we can talk.

Thanks but that is going to be a lot of weight to ship and I have had bad experience moving gear across our border......now should you find yourself in Toronto with a 4x10 cab in your back pocket......

tap4154

November 18th, 2010, 11:58 AM

trev333

November 27th, 2010, 05:10 AM

Hi guys, while the thread has stalled on the super 210.. I have a few questions to ask the other owners ...

I got my Super 210 second hand recently.. it's pretty well ON all day, most days...a real tractor this one...though,I'm not convinced I like the 2x10 speaker set up... too bassy/muddy? on it's own down low, I'm sure cranked up in a large space it would be different..and I only play it hooked to another bin with either a 1x12, 2x12 or a 12"+horn wedge monitor in parallel or on it's own.. the horn in the wedge adds a lot of jangle to a strat,

OK..now?.. the back panel has 4 jack inputs..

1- an 8ohm aux extension spkr out (which I use with my bins)

2- line out.. what is this for? what ohms is it rated at?..another speaker bin or to another amp/desk?

3- power amp in... like? how do you do this? hook another amps preamp signal in here?..or a spkr out line in there?

4- pre amp out.. this goes to a desk or another amps power amp in jack?...

and..how would I best hook up a pair of 2x12 8ohm half stacks and an 8ohm foldback wedge 12" + horn with a parrallel out double jack set up... to this super 210... would that be too much extra load?...

could I take the 2 10" speakers out of circuit make a plug on those wires to hook up one of the 12" bins ,, and not have any 10"'s in the mix...?..

there you go.. a thanksgiving teaser... best wishes..:)

tap4154

November 27th, 2010, 08:56 PM

Line out = line level output for recording etc. or to a slave amp.

Preamp out/power amp in = an effects loop.

I'll let others answer about extension speakers. I just use combo amps ;o)

Jethro

November 30th, 2010, 09:21 AM

tap4154

November 30th, 2010, 10:33 AM

Very interesting. I've never thought of trying that....but I will now. I've always just added the odd pedal to the mix and left the gain channel untouched.

Thanks for the tip

You're welcome.

BTW, if you want more volume on the clean channel, set all the EQ pots to 10. The EQ on these actually cuts and boosts volume on it's frequency channel (treb, mid, bass). On the gain channel, lower the EQ for creamier tones, but if you leave the EQ low and switch to the clean channel, the volume will be VERY low. In a way, the EQ on the RK Super is a master volume, I've found. I can dime the clean channel, but with the EQ all down to 2, play at bedroom level. Much different than my Champ (my only other tube amp) where the EQ has very little if any effect on overall volume, just tone.

Jethro

November 30th, 2010, 03:25 PM

You're welcome.

BTW, if you want more volume on the clean channel, set all the EQ pots to 10. The EQ on these actually cuts and boosts volume on it's frequency channel (treb, mid, bass). On the gain channel, lower the EQ for creamier tones, but if you leave the EQ low and switch to the clean channel, the volume will be VERY low. In a way, the EQ on the RK Super is a master volume, I've found. I can dime the clean channel, but with the EQ all down to 2, play at bedroom level. Much different than my Champ (my only other tube amp) where the EQ has very little if any effect on overall volume, just tone.

Cool....I'm gonna give this a go when I get home tonight. Better kick the wife out first though. :wink:

ccuwan

December 1st, 2010, 02:45 PM

Cool....I'm gonna give this a go when I get home tonight. Better kick the wife out first though. :wink:

You will be impressed. I think it was Tap who pointed this out to me a while ago and I tried it. This opens up a huge range of variable tones that I was not getting out of this amp before.....and some nice low volume sound. It works on all models of the Super series amps (super 60, super 210 and super 112). I'm not qualified to varify this but from the very few non super amps that I have tried this on it did not work which implies that it is an unusual design characteristic. If anyone knows of other amps on which this will work, I would be interested to learn.

Jethro

December 6th, 2010, 08:59 AM

tap4154

December 6th, 2010, 11:20 AM

I just ordered some THD yellowjackets to try in my Super 210. While I love the tone of the amp overall, I'm hoping for a bit better, "looser" clean sound at lower volumes, and especially a possible smoothing out/improvment of the gain channel, which I've heard is often a result of using the YJs.

When I get them next week I'll record a few audio samples with the 6L6s then the EL-84s, at several volume setting on the clean and gain channel for a fair comparison.

BTW, I posted it in a new thread (to not hijack this one off topic) but I did try the YJs, and got a defective set.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-central-station/248103-installed-thd-yellowjackets-snap-crackle-pop.html

Just in case anyone was wondering ;o)

ccuwan

December 6th, 2010, 11:46 AM

Hey ccuwan,

Out of curiosity, when you split your combo to create head and cabinet, where did you relocate your reverb tank? I've heard they need to remain distant from the transformer....just curious as I'm thinking more and more how much I'd like to do this....not to mention having different speaker cabinet options.

Cheers,
Jethro

Really good question that I should have asked myself before I started. Fact is I assumed I could put it into the bottom of the head cab and as you point out, that leaves it too close to the transformer....therefore hum.

After construction I looked at the cabinet design of the S60 head and discovered it is deeper than the cab of the combo. This is to accommodate mounting the tank on the back wall of the cabinet. Had I to do it again I would make the head cabinet deeper.

In the process of my self eduction I researched tanks and learned that if the intent is to wall mount a tank and not bottom mount it, there are specific tank models that are designed to work properly if on their side.

Because of my mistake, I have the tank loose in the bottom of the 4x10 speaker cab. Less than ideal but not a show stopper as connection to the tank is a simple phono plug.

The bonus portion of this story:
Due to all the extra space in the bottom of a 4x10 cab I tried an 18" tank and learned that the reverb circuit in the s60 can handle it without issue. Fact is it sounds far better, imho, than the stock 12" tank with a much broader range of reverb capability. I highly recommend that you give an 18" tank a try and make the adjustments that I overlooked.

tap4154

December 6th, 2010, 02:30 PM

The bonus portion of this story:
Due to all the extra space in the bottom of a 4x10 cab I tried an 18" tank and learned that the reverb circuit in the s60 can handle it without issue. Fact is it sounds far better, imho, than the stock 12" tank with a much broader range of reverb capability. I highly recommend that you give an 18" tank a try and make the adjustments that I overlooked.

That's good to know. The stock reverb isn't very "lush" or "surfy", though it sounds fine. I'd thought about getting a bigger tank, and now I think I will. Thanks!

tenor_bob

February 8th, 2011, 01:30 AM

So glad I found this thread. I don't post very often at all, and usually just read as a guest, but I've been on here for a little while. I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread, because a customer of mine came in to RadioShack last week, and was talking about this amp. We got on the subject because I was bragging on my new Deluxe Player's Strat (which is gonna get the noiseless Tele pickup treatment), and he mentioned two amps he had for sale. Now I have a better idea of what to offer him price-wise, and I know what kinda mods I can/might have to do after obtaining it, if I do. Thanks for the knowledge, guys.

zorkala

May 26th, 2011, 05:12 PM

glad i found this thread. i recently picked up a super 112 at a garage sale. needs a new reverb tank, and i will probably retube it. cant wait to here how it sounds when im done.

zorkala

May 27th, 2011, 12:09 PM

if anyone can fill me in on biasing a super 112, id appreciate it. i need to retube, and cant seem to find where the bias adjustment is (if there is one).

bdgregory

May 28th, 2011, 11:09 AM

I'm not sure how many Super 112's shipped with the bias adjustment circuit. Mine did not have it, but I had it added. If you can't find potentiometer accessible on the underside or back of the chassis, or inside the chassis accessible on top of the ckt board, I would assume yours doesn't have it. If this is the case - it's easy to add, or you can install your new tubes and go. If you don't have blind faith it's biased correctly, then check it before you go too long with the new tubes.

zorkala

May 29th, 2011, 11:44 AM

thanks bdgregory. yeah i couldnt find it anywhere and didnt see it as per the schematic.

bdgregory

June 24th, 2011, 07:51 AM

I picked up my second Super 112 this week. It came loaded with a Vintage 30 speaker and the deal was too good to pass up. I can't figure out why these amps aren't more highly respected. I've tried so many other amps and there are only a few that I favor over the Super 112 - and all of them cost me 3 times what these cost (eg Super Reverb). Further, they don't blow it away - but merely have a slight edge.

eggman

June 25th, 2011, 12:54 PM

Howdy,

Congrats on the new Super 112, BDGregory. Mine is now in need of only it's second repair in it's 20 year lifetime. And it remains the best amp for clean tones I've ever played, with it's robust bass, sparkling cleans and 6L6 "bloom".

tap4154

June 26th, 2011, 12:14 AM

I think they're all fixed bias, but they really are great bargains these days. Set the EQ pots right, and you can have a huge range of tones, and the clean is to die for. On the OD channel, just cut the mid to zero, and treble + bass to 7 or so. Then play with the presence, and the notch if yours has it. The only thing I'd add is a second EQ, but as one of the designers wrote here, they were on a budget when it was built.

bdgregory

June 27th, 2011, 08:15 AM

they are indeed fixed bias, and as far as I know most did not have an adjustment pot - but the schematic shows an "optional" adjustment circuit which I have installed on mine. It's one bias pot and a resistor. Plus if you want, some external contact points for your meter.

tap4154

June 28th, 2011, 12:15 AM

tctele

July 7th, 2011, 08:53 PM

Jethro

July 8th, 2011, 08:26 AM

here is mine, custom made cab(about the size of a hotrod deville) housing 2 red label jackson 12"s. These speakers were supposedly rebadged emi's? I can say with certainty that aside from the problematic jack issue, this amp smokes and is clean all the way up the dial. the reverb is relatively tame, but it actually allows me to have it set pretty high without washing the sound out so i just always have a very nice 3-d clean tone. takes effects superbly, and jut like everyone else states it is heaaavy. Mine being extra heavy due to that new cab it's in:cool:

Sweet cabinet, and love the grill....kinda boogielike :lol:

trev333

July 8th, 2011, 08:47 AM

there was a super 112 going locally for $500...

I thought about it...

the super 210 I have sounds better with some 12's hooked in...

I thought the same amp with a single 12 would be nice to have.....

I relented... though it didn't sell and I have his number... I might toss an offer in....

mattdean4130

July 9th, 2011, 11:10 AM

This amp is nice with an acoustic aswell, i've been using mine mostly for my acoustic of late after getting my Orange head for the rock stuff i play!

rikipu

July 10th, 2011, 01:54 AM

Hey guys, are there any original grey or black knob Super 60 combos out there? If there are, what are the differences? Were black and grey knobs only put onto the prototypes or phased out later on to reduce cost? I've only found the red knob ones up till now.

trev333

July 23rd, 2011, 09:41 AM

what would be a good match for replacement speakers on a 210...?

the ones in mine are the stock blue label Eminence.. still in OK nick, though they'd have to be "tired"...

nice to know what any other types owners have tried with success...

zorkala

July 27th, 2011, 02:08 PM

using the info here, ive come to really appreciate the super 112 i found. im getting a very nice clean sound even at bedroom levels. starting the EQs at zero and working them up from there did the trick for me. ive got some nice shimmery tones messing with the presence and volume pull bright too. but for the most part i keep the presence around 3.

ive considered selling it, since im an apartment home recording guy and cant really take the thing past 5 or 6 for more than a few mins. i pretty much use a vibro champ for all my guitar parts, so the super 112 is feeling neglected, which is a shame.

zorkala

July 29th, 2011, 10:38 AM

trev333

July 29th, 2011, 10:51 AM

just looked inside the 210...

plain tank 9 1/4 x 2 3/8 x 1 1/2. two RCA's.... no brands /serials visible on top?..

stock fender?.. whatever they used...

T-3 ish
M-4-5
B-3 ish
R-8
P-3
V 6 + 2x12 bin... 2 teles plugged into the 2 outlets,,stock one and a 2xp90 one,at my whim.., that's where I'm at on the 210.. in my lounge room... morning ,noon ,night, it's a truck...

tap4154

July 31st, 2011, 12:35 PM

An Accutronics 8EB2C1B is in mine (all stock amp). Same tank they use in Blues Juniors these days.

bdgregory

August 1st, 2011, 07:57 AM

if anyone can provide me with the reverb tank info, id really appreciate it. i removed the tank when i purchased the amp to see if i could fix a dead spring, and have since misplaced it. id like to replace the tank with an accutronics unit if possible. thanks

Try a MOD 9EB2C1B ( $19 from Antique Electronics (https://secure.tubesandmore.com/) ) . The stock tank is a 8EB2C1B - which is a short tank. The Accutronics 8EB- is $23. The 9EB2C1B is a 19" tank and there's plenty of room in the amp for it. Otherwise it's the same spec's. I replaced mine using the MOD and there's a material improvement in reverb. MOD reverb tanks are great, and reasonably priced.

tap4154

August 1st, 2011, 11:15 AM

Try a MOD 9EB2C1B ( $19 from Antique Electronics (https://secure.tubesandmore.com/) ) . The stock tank is a 8EB2C1B - which is a short tank. The Accutronics 8EB- is $23. The 9EB2C1B is a 19" tank and there's plenty of room in the amp for it. Otherwise it's the same spec's. I replaced mine using the MOD and there's a material improvement in reverb. MOD reverb tanks are great, and reasonably priced.

By "material improvement", what do you mean? Is it similar to the stock tank, but requires less pot (e.g. turning up the new tank to 4 is about like 8 on the stock tank)? I like that the stock tank isn't "messy" or overbearing to the tone, but even on 10 it's not even close to "surfy" (for the times I want that). I usually keep it about 7-8, but would like the option of "surfy". My little Frontman 25R with reverb on 3 is about like the Super 210 on 8, but when the 25R reverb is on 10, it's pretty sloppy.

Heck for $19, I guess I should just get one and see. Yes, there's plenty of room for it, with a couple inches to spare.

Edit: Hmmmm... there's a 16 3/4" version as well of the MOD 9EB2C1B:

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/amp_parts/P-RMOD-9EB2C1B

bdgregory

August 1st, 2011, 02:01 PM

I struggled with word choice regarding "material", and maybe I could have done better. There's noticeably more reverb, but not profoundly better. I guess I confused the length with the 9 prefix as I was recalling the length. Obviously, the correct length is 16 3/4". I've installed MOD tanks in 2 of my amps and couldn't be happier. Construction is solid and nicely finished. The fact they are cheaper than the Accutronics models is a bonus.

tap4154

August 1st, 2011, 02:18 PM

Thanks for clarifying BD, I just ordered one.

I'll probably record a little comparison of the stock and new tank as well, on several settings, to show how they compare.

Then sell my old stock tank on eBay as "vintage" :grin:

tap4154

August 2nd, 2011, 06:42 PM

Wow! Fast shipping from Amplified Parts in Tempe AZ to So Cal. Ordered yesterday (Monday) morning, and got the tank a few hours ago (Tuesday afternoon). Just paid regular UPS ground.

Love it! More reverb, but not too much, and not "messy" at all. Now it's more lush, and full. Seems to give the guitar a better tone, and has very nice, smooth sound in person.

I recorded a quick demo/comparison with a short basic rhythm. First 25 seconds are the old stock Accutronics 8EB2C1B, and the second 25 seconds is the new MOD 9EB2C1B. Recorded with a Zoom PS-04 on a stack of books in front one speaker, and the little internal mic got overdriven a bit, but it's good enough for a demo. With reverb on 10 in both cases.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10912918

The Mod on top, stock Accu tank on the bottom:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt246/tap4154/Reverbs.jpg

Only quirk/minor confusion is that the "in" RCA plug is red on the Super 210, while the "in" jack on the MOD is white, and the "out" jack is red. But just connect the red plug to te MOD "in" and black plug to "out", and you'll be fine (the Accutronics has two white jacks, marked in and out).

Jethro

August 3rd, 2011, 12:47 PM

You're right Tap...definitely has a smoother warmer clarity.

Thanks for sharing that

bcarter_1

August 3rd, 2011, 02:38 PM

On SLC's KSL Classified today: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=16649411&cat=&lpid=&search=super 210
$375.00

Fender USA "Super 210" Guitar Amp - Very Nice!

West Jordan, UT 84084 - Aug 3, 2011

This is a Fender USA model "Paul Rivera" designed tube amp. It has 60 watts RMS into two 10" Fender eminance speakers. Comes with the foot switch to change channels from Fender clean to a mean overdrive. Comes with a custom amp cover and casters installed. This amp is powerful and sounds great. Perfect working order. The amp is in good cosmetic shape as well. It had a broken case when I got it, so I have glued and fastend it together, no problems. Call, email. or text. I just bought a Fender Twin Reverb and have no use for this now. Thanks for looking at this great amp.

tap4154

August 3rd, 2011, 04:50 PM

You're right Tap...definitely has a smoother warmer clarity.

Thanks for sharing that

My bad recording aside, I really do like the new tank, and should have changed it years ago. I think they put the short tank in the RK Super 60 because it was originally in a smaller cabinet than the 112/210, and head and rack versions. Nothing wrong with the stock tank, but especially playing at lower volumes (not to disturb neighbors) some nice lusher reverb gives it much more depth, and emulates what you'd hear at higher volumes, rattling/echoing off the walls :mrgreen:

ccuwan

August 5th, 2011, 12:39 PM

First time back in a while. Nice to see this thread is still alive and kicking. Pleased to see as well that there are now others with the large reverb tank in their Supers. It does make a big difference.
How about that custom cab by TCtele. That is one sweet cabinet on a Super 210.....well done.

tap4154

August 5th, 2011, 05:07 PM

here is mine, custom made cab(about the size of a hotrod deville) housing 2 red label jackson 12"s. These speakers were supposedly rebadged emi's? I can say with certainty that aside from the problematic jack issue, this amp smokes and is clean all the way up the dial. the reverb is relatively tame, but it actually allows me to have it set pretty high without washing the sound out so i just always have a very nice 3-d clean tone. takes effects superbly, and jut like everyone else states it is heaaavy. Mine being extra heavy due to that new cab it's in:cool:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/amp-owners-clubs/89147d1310086098t-fender-super-60-112-210-owners-imag0090-jpg

Wow, that is very cool!

A custom RK Super 212 in a beautifully-built hard wood cabinet. I'll bet it sounds as great as it looks!

Jethro

August 6th, 2011, 02:17 PM

Hmm, I might have to consider that 16 3/4" version....would just squeeze into my 17" opening on the super 60

tctele

August 22nd, 2011, 02:07 PM

hey everyone, thanks for the positive comments on the amp. It certainly does have an older boogie aesthetic going on with the cab and grill combo. as for the sound, id say that it projects bass a lot more now and so i have my bass set lower than before to achieve the same tone i liked. I'm excited to hear about these reverb tanks because i can agree that the reverb just isnt rich enough in stock form. I had heard rumors that some various super60 amps had reverb trim pots internally but have yet to follow up on it. If this turns out to be false, i will be getting the previously mentioned tanks asap. i really liked the demo of the before and after.

bdgregory

August 23rd, 2011, 07:23 AM

I tried to find a reverb trim pot in my Super 112 circuit but can not. There definitely is one in the Champ 12 circuit (aka red knob champ), and adjusting it can boost the reverb in that amp quite a bit - even to the point of oscillation.

Jethro

October 14th, 2011, 11:03 AM

Been re-reading some of this thread and I have a few questions....sorry in advance if I missed the answers somewhere:

1. On the replacement Reverb Tanks I noticed that some have a long or medium decay. Is anyone familiar with the difference....is it the obvious answer?

2. Has anyone replaced their 12 spkr and if so what did you go with, and what's your impression?

3. Has anyone replaced their 6L6's? Which brand do you recommend?

Cheers and thanks for any input,
Jethro

tap4154

October 14th, 2011, 07:11 PM

1. On the replacement Reverb Tanks I noticed that some have a long or medium decay. Is anyone familiar with the difference....is it the obvious answer?

I think it is the obvious answer. I'm still loving that MOD 9EB2C1B (medium decay). I usually keep it at 3 to 5 now, while with the stock tank on it was usually 7-10 for a similar effect. Very nice, smooth reverb IMO.

bdgregory

October 15th, 2011, 10:57 AM

2. Has anyone replaced their 12 spkr and if so what did you go with, and what's your impression?

3. Has anyone replaced their 6L6's? Which brand do you recommend?

Cheers and thanks for any input,
Jethro

I tried a Celestion Vintage 30 and like it a lot, then I put in an Eminence Cannabis Rex - it's awesome. I now have 2 Super 112's, and the one I recently acquired had a Vintage 30 in it - which I plan to swap out for a Jensen C12N, and also try a C12K. I really like these in my other Fender amps so am interested in trying them. My view is that you can't go wrong with the Cannabis Rex though.

As for Tubes - I haven't noticed much difference except for when I put some Svetlana's in that were weak. I replaced them with Mesa Boogie 6L6s which are good. Groove Tubes were also good. I expect JJ's would be good, but don't recall trying them in this amp.

Jethro

October 18th, 2011, 10:49 AM

I tried a Celestion Vintage 30 and like it a lot, then I put in an Eminence Cannabis Rex - it's awesome. I now have 2 Super 112's, and the one I recently acquired had a Vintage 30 in it - which I plan to swap out for a Jensen C12N, and also try a C12K. I really like these in my other Fender amps so am interested in trying them. My view is that you can't go wrong with the Cannabis Rex though.

As for Tubes - I haven't noticed much difference except for when I put some Svetlana's in that were weak. I replaced them with Mesa Boogie 6L6s which are good. Groove Tubes were also good. I expect JJ's would be good, but don't recall trying them in this amp.

Thanks for the info. Just curious....what is it about the C Rex you like? Is it a looser bottom end, or possibly a bit tighter? I'm looking for a tight bottom....but then again, aren't we all :shock::lol:

bdgregory

October 19th, 2011, 09:11 AM

It's less brite (the V30 goes too far here and it became fatiguing), and less boomy than the V30. I'm not sure I would say it's looser or tighter - it is good and tight IMO. It's just right!

October 19th, 2011, 04:11 PM

Great thread! Back in the late '80s a buddy of mine got a 1x12 version. He'd had it two weeks and had only played it around his apt. I borrowed it for a good week and a half to cut an album with my (for lack of better description) punk band. I attemped to wear the sucker out in the isolation room. It performed flawlessly and sounded great. I hated to give it back. I kinda want one now.

In Tune

October 22nd, 2011, 02:07 AM

Bookmarked this great thread! Might get one this weekend. :twisted::grin:

In Tune

October 23rd, 2011, 05:05 PM

Bookmarked this great thread! Might get one this weekend. :twisted::grin:

Just scored a Super 210..What an awesome amp! In great condition, just needed a little spucing up. Killer cleans, and I really like the dirt channel as well.Who knew! A real Keeper. I might change the stock Verb out for the longer tank though..One Hell of a buy at 75 bucks! :grin:

tap4154

October 23rd, 2011, 10:00 PM

Just scored a Super 210..What an awesome amp! In great condition, just needed a little spucing up. Killer cleans, and I really like the dirt channel as well.Who knew! A real Keeper. I might change the stock Verb out for the longer tank though..One Hell of a buy at 75 bucks! :grin:

Wow! You stole that baby.

Pics? Is it all stock?

In Tune

October 24th, 2011, 03:39 AM

Wow! You stole that baby.

Pics? Is it all stock?

I CONCUR! This amp for this money? It is an all original amp, It works perfect! I cannot believe it , Ive never played thru on of these....before I bought it, I read all the great reviews here and boy it does indeed live up to them. I took pics, will try to get them up eventually...
Can I put some Tilt Back legs on this?

bdgregory

October 24th, 2011, 08:11 AM

wow! unbelievable score. I'm sure tilt back legs wouldn't be an issue. I think you'd want the medium length jobs. I put my Super 112 on a stand now and then - it raises the front bottom up by 6" and tilts back ~20 degrees.

Jethro

October 24th, 2011, 10:35 AM

75 bucks??? That's a crazy good deal!!!

Congrats on that one

In Tune

October 31st, 2011, 04:14 AM

Tube Question on these...I scored some OLD 6L6G(cokebottle)NOS tubes..will these handle the Plate Voltages from these > Super 210? I'm guessing no..:?:

tap4154

October 31st, 2011, 03:38 PM

Tube Question on these...I scored some OLD 6L6G(cokebottle)NOS tubes..will these handle the Plate Voltages from these > Super 210? I'm guessing no..:?:

Probably not, if they're really old.

Here's some info I found on a Hot Rod Deluxe site, which should apply to the RK Supers I believe:

http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/bias.html#recommend

The Hot Rod amps have a plate voltage of around 430V (Deluxe) or 475V (Deville). They were designed to be used with 6L6GC tubes, which can handle 500 volts/30 watts on the plates, and 450 volts/5 watts on the screen. Lets take a look at the other 6L6 variations and see exactly how they differ.

6L6 This is the original version placed inside a metal envelope (pictured above on the left). It can handle 360 volts/19 watts on the plates, and 270 volts/2.5 watts on the screen.

6L6G This tube has the same specs as the 6L6, but is placed in a large "Coke Bottle" shaped glass envelope—which is what the "G" stands for.

6L6GA This tube is the same as the 6L6/6L6G, though is in a smaller "Coke Bottle" shaped glass envelope. The Groove Tube 6L6-CB, the CB meaning "Coke Bottle," is probably the Chinese remake of this tube.

6L6GB Also has the same specs as the 6L6/6L6G/6L6GA tubes, except its envelope is straight sided glass like the 6L6GC. So visually this tube and the 6L6GC look alike, but internally are completely different.

5932/6L6WGA This is a mechanically rugged-ized version with a huge brown base and straight sided glass envelope similar to the 6L6GB/6L6GC—it was produced only by Sylvania. It's electrical specs are exactly the same as the 6L6/6L6G/6L6GA/6L6GB.

Groove Tubes 6L6B I am constantly asked about this, so I've updated this on 6/22/05. I had received a bunch of emails at one time complaining about the GT-6L6B as a replacement tube, so I began recommending that everyone avoid them. It's been well over a year (at least) since I haven't heard a single peep about the quality of the GT-6L6B. I can only hope and assume that whatever was wrong has been corrected, or people really have stopped using them as replacement tubes. A while back I got about four or five emails from people complaining about how their amp crapped out on them (usually lost almost all its volume), after they bought GT-6L6Bs as replacement tubes from their local music store. They had always mentioned that their amp worked fine before they installed the GT 6L6B. What made it especially scary is that putting in the old tubes did not fix the problem, so I strongly recommended that people avoid this tube. I know that Fender uses the GT-6L6B/Sovtek 5881WXT as the OEM power tube, however, the problems weren't from stock tubes but from replacements. All I know about it is that the "typical power ranges from 20 to 25 watts," which couldn't be more ambiguous. I still recommend staying away from these tubes for the simple reason that there are far better replacements for the cash, in my opinion.
If you use any of these tubes, do not be surprised if the tubes go and the amp goes with them.