Snare and hi-hat setup in the studio: One mic for both or one mic apiece?

For live performances, I know that the snare and hi-hat are usually mic'ed with one mic; however, this must not apply to a lot of recording situations, what with volume/EQ/compression/panning/etc. considerations--or does it? What seems to be the preferred snare/hi-hat mic setup in the studio?

If each does, in fact, get its own dedicated mic in a recording situation, where is the mic for each placed?

Thanks,
Joel

20 engineers would probably give you 20 different answers so 'Dummies' to the rescue and then 'tweak to fit' !! :wink:

http://eu.dummies.com/WileyCDA/how-to/content/miking-the-drumset-in-your-home-recording-studio.html


http://www.wikirecording.org/Shure%27s_Microphone_Techniques_for_Studio_Recordi ng_Section_One:_Drums_and_Percussion#Drum_Kit_Miki ng

Use two mics, find the sweet spot on the snare. Use a condenser mic on the hat , place it above the hi hat aiming down. That will reduce bleed from the rest of the kit. Roll the low end back on the hi hat mic. I would not use EQ or compression while tracking , save that for when you mix. A 57 works fine for the snare. Also I prefer to mic the top of the snare , you can mic top and bottom. Bottom mic placement can be tricky.

i've seen one mike work for both, but placement is super-critical and it's worth spending some time doing micro-adjustments. But let's face it, Donnie's method is better if you've got plenty of mikes and channels.

I mic the snare so as to get as little hi-hat as possible, and let my overhead mic or mics (depending on how I'm mic-ing the kit) cover the high hat along with the rest of the cymbals.

I like to keep it simple, though...

Tim

I would actually say that the most common approach is two mics. Too much high hat in the snare mic is always a problem. In fact, too much high hat everywhere is a huge problem for at least 40% of drummers. For that reason, I will frequently forgo a hat mic all together and get what I need from it with the overheads.

...Of course, there are a million other techniques, and I've had success mic'ing a whole kit with a single SM81 right over the drummer's head, and pointing forward slightly - and that's in a live situation.

IMHO, hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

IMHO, hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

That's how I feel about the ride.

20 engineers would probably give you 20 different answers so 'Dummies' to the rescue and then 'tweak to fit' !! :wink:

http://eu.dummies.com/WileyCDA/how-to/content/miking-the-drumset-in-your-home-recording-studio.html


http://www.wikirecording.org/Shure%27s_Microphone_Techniques_for_Studio_Recordi ng_Section_One:_Drums_and_Percussion#Drum_Kit_Miki ng



I think it would be way more than 20.

if you have the mics and an extra channel, id mic both separately... better control.

drums can be tough.


rand z

I never mic the hat anymore.

It gets in everything else anyways.

But, never say never.

I'm more a fan of minimal micing these days anyhow.

Cheers,
Geoff

IMHO, (hi-)hats should be a privilege and drummers who use them too much and too loudly should have it revoked.

That's how I feel about the ride.

A bit of a sidetrack from the thread subject:

Considering your respective comments, Ben and Todd, I have to ask about your opinion of Stewart Copeland--an undisputed and unapologetic hi-hat and ride demon: Do you give him a pass, or do you think he merits censure right along with everyone else?

I hope this doesn't come across as snarky; to the contrary, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. (Frankly, B and T, you two are among a very small, select cadre of TDPers I truly admire and respect; hence, I'm always genuinely interested in your opinions, regardless of subject! :wink:)

Joel

Considering your respective comments, Ben and Todd, I have to ask about your opinion of Stewart Copeland--an undisputed and unapologetic hi-hat and ride demon: Do you give him a pass, or do you think he merits censure right along with everyone else?

In the context of The Police, he's great.

If I wanted to criticize him, I'd say he tends to be a bit too busy and and can be loose and slightly sloppy, at times.

I actually like his ride work. I think he uses the bell a lot, no? What I really hate is splashy white noise symbol work or busy ride patterns that fight the song.

I mic up hats but I guess I use them in the mix around one time in ten.

IMHO it is best to isolate hihat out of the snare mic(s) as much as you can.
A hypercardioid mic is useful as it rejects like the pic below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Polar_pattern_hypercardioid.svg/600px-Polar_pattern_hypercardioid.svg.png

I pick up the hihat in the overheads, not the snare mic.

I favour a 3 mic technique with 2 small diaphragm condensers over the kit and a 'God' mic equi-distant between them that is used for crushing/treating with a lot of compression.

If you've got the channels, go ahead and use 2 mics. hi hat mic, besides being a condensor, should also be placed on the outside of the hat, opposite from where the drummer strikes the hat. 2 reasons for this-less stick noise, and the hat will help cut down on bleed from the snare drum into the hat mic.

Otherwise, I say just use the overheads with most drummers, it tends to sound more natural that way...

Franc Robert

I tried one mic for awhile, but could never achieve a sweet sounding hat AND a punchy snare. Gotta be two. Always a 57 or 421 on snare, and always an AKG C451EB on the hat. Yet to find anything better, for my taste.

If I can get it far enough away from the hat, and still get the attack I want with no phase issues, the hat mic can be half of my overheads, with another C451 somewhere over the low tom.

I mic the snare so as to get as little hi-hat as possible, and let my overhead mic or mics (depending on how I'm mic-ing the kit) cover the high hat along with the rest of the cymbals.

I like to keep it simple, though...

Tim

When I took recording engineering classes at SF state. This is how they taught us how to do it. Works great.

mic should be placed above the hi-hat set at a 45* angle to the center point above the open point of the top cymbal
it should always be located on the side away from the
drummer

bw

What genre of music? Are the snare & HH the only two elements of the drum set being used? For what I'm thinking (jazz or Americana type stuff, maybe played with brushes?), I would think that you will want as much of the "snare" sound as possible, which is found on the underside of the snare drum, where those buzzy spring thingies are. I would consider an extra mic there - if you do, be sure to check for phase issues with the top snare mic.

mud

two mics. for the whole kit.

I have mic'ed up the hi hat 100's of times and never once turned up the fader at mix down. It's often a job getting rid of it.

The less microphones the better. For every mic you add you get a new set of possible phasing issues. A whole drum set mic'ed up with three mic's is a beautiful thing. one kick and two overheads.

two mics. for the whole kit.

And an old castle? :grin:

mud

And an old castle? :grin:

mud

Add Beyer ribbon mics and a couple 1176s with all the buttons pushed in too!

Or so the story goes.

Cheers,
Geoff