Just can't enjoy humbuckers

I've borrowed my older sister's Epiphone Sheraton (it's an older nicer version than the current one) and also borrowed a friend's tele deluxe and didn't like the humbuckers on either. I've tried semi-hollow and solid bodies now and I just can't seem to appreciate humbuckers. P-90s I like, single coil neck, bridges and middles I like, but humbuckers just don't agree with me.

Anyone else share this opinion?

There are good ones and bad ones.

That like saying you don't like single coils. I've heard awesome singles and awesome humbuckers, and just as many that aren't so awesome of each.

TV Jones? Work your way up?

I've had the same feeling about humbuckers lately. Seems like they are a one-trick pony to me. After hanging out here for a while and learning all the nuances of the single coil I probably just haven't learned the personality of a humbucker yet.

Humbuckers are OK but that cancel out more than just the 60hz hum. I think that's why a really good single coil has such a sweet sound.

I used to think jazz guitars needed humbuckers -- say classic '57s, but now I've seen the light! Not only do I dig a slightly gritty P-90, but the DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 (Monkey-on-a-stick) is a classic as is the Charlie Christian bar pickup. And it's great to see the comeback of that pickup, with Jason Lollar, Vintage Vibe, Seymour Duncan (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/specialized-1/charlie_christa/), etc... making CCs now, including ones for Teles. And even a standard Tele can be coaxed into a clean jazzy tone from its neck pickup. Yeah, 'buckers hide too much tone.

I'm not a huge fan of garden variety humbucker guitars (though my brother's SG is mighty sweet), but I love some of the more articulate version like the Gibson/Epi mini humbucker and it's close kin the Firebird pickup, the Gretsch Filtertron, and the original Seth Lover-designed Fender Wide-Range humbucker...

Tim

My problem with HB pups is that they are too hot for a true clean sound unless I use a big amp and cut the guitar volume.But I like to have the volume all the way up [better tone].For R&B or R&R a HB is just fine with the right amp.

It's important to remember to plug into input 2 on any Fender or two channel amp when using humbuckers (IMHO)

cheers for all the replies guys. You've come up with some interesting points, I might give mini-hums a whirl because the 1 on the 52 hot rod does sound great to me.

Also, like you've said, I think the problem I've had is that I can't coax a *really* clean tone out of HBs like I can with singles, especially neck HBs.

I've always imagined HBs would sound best for blues and jazz, but I'm just having difficulty getting those kinda tones. I've tried all the different EQ on my Marshall amp but I'm not really satisfied.

Are Filtertrons any closer to a HB tone or are they a traditional single coil tone in a different shape?

thanks very much again for all your replies!

It's important to remember to plug into input 2 on any Fender or two channel amp when using humbuckers (IMHO)

Why would you say this is? I always just thought that input2 was a quieter input...

I have not found to be to my liking any Tele's with humbuckers in the bridge. I do, however, like a nice fat Tele neck humbucker (along with a nice fat Tele neck) . . . I think it beefs up the tone, which otherwise sounds somewhat flat. But the Tele Deluxes I have played left me bored, there isnt any dimension or articulation to the bridge sound, it's all just fuzz.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I think I found your bigger problem... I don't think any Marshall amp is what you really want there. If you want to do thick, crunchy hard rock, then maybe. But I think classic humbuckers (anything not overwound, the SD '59 is a good yet inexpensive one) go great with Fender amps, particularly blackfaces and tweeds. I just don't think you'll get a fat, punchy, articulate clean or "hot clean" tone out of humbuckers and a Marshall.

For reference, I play my neck pickup (a Duncan 59) almost exclusively on my walnut thinline for jazz, blues rock, and even glassy rhythmic delay (uh, basically every time I try to sound like The Edge).

Super Distortions and an LP serve me well when I'm in a HEAVY mood...

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g179/nadzab/100_4643.jpg

Humbuckers in a Tele, I don't see the need.

My Fav Buckers are Gibson 57 Classics, they are not high out-put. nice sweet vintage like sound. Great in a Les Paul.

I also have a 1968 LP Custom, PAT sticker T in the neck, and a PAT Sticker pre-T bridge.
Very classic Gibson. Nice bright / sweet classic LP sound.

I think us Singlecoil players tend to go for the PAF (57's, Burst Buckers and such) sound, not the high output darker sounding Buckers. That's my take anyway..

Yes, I think that using a Fender or Fender-type amp will get you much closer to the sound you are looking for (versus the Marshall, for instance). I can coax some very bluesy and very jazzy tones out of my Ibanez AK95 hollowbody, whether it's through the the Fender Champ, the Roland Cube 60 or Amplitube. In that guitar, I have a Bennedeto A6 pickup in the neck, great pickup for a classic jazz humbucker sound. The bridge holds a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover and has great spank and recognizable PAF tone.

But I prefer the sound of a single coil. A really good one sounds so alive and dynamic, and to my ears the notes bloom in a much more interesting fashion than I've heard in even the nicest humbuckers. I think Derek Trucks, for example, has great tone, even if it's not single coil. But it doesn't sound much like a single coil. He does, however, play through a Fender amp (Super, I think?) so that's giving him part of that Fender-y sound that he wouldn't be getting through a different amp, such as the Marshall. All depends on what you're after tone-wise.

Anyone else share this opinion?


Yup, right here! Haven't found a regular-sized HB I really like yet - I do like Filtertrons, though (but they sound more like SCs rather than HBs, in the first place); never had a chance tor try a mini-humbucker.

Interesting topic here.

I just entered Humbucking territory with a Ibanez AS73 Semi Hollow Body.

I have to say, besides the structural qualities of the guitar itself, I find those stock pickups quite interesting.
Although, they are ceramic magnets, they come up with a rather attractive coloring.

More of a clean R 'n' R sounding mood with tendency to easily crunch out.

I'd say, not bad for a Humbucking entry. I will see where it takes me.

... never had a chance tor try a mini-humbucker.
When we had the discussion about improving trebles in the Tele neck position, lately, there was also the mention of a Mini Hum.

In the course of this I went out to my local guitar store, since I knew they had a Hot Rod Tele on the floor.

I was very pleased with the clarity, tonal balance and somewhat brilliant performance of that SD Mini Hum. No lack of clean trebles, whatsoever. Nice pup.

Interesting topic here.

I just entered Humbucking territory with a Ibanez AS73 Semi Hollow Body.

I have to say, besides the structural qualities of the guitar itself, I find those stock pickups quite interesting.
Although, they are ceramic magnets, they come up with a rather attractive coloring.

More of a clean R 'n' R sounding mood with tendency to easily crunch out.

I'd say, not bad for a Humbucking entry. I will see where it takes me.

I had an Ibanez AFS75T, which uses the same ACH-humbuckers, I think; those where way too dark and muddy for my taste (but then, I play clean most of the time - they might work better with OD sounds).

I'm not a fan of anything based on the old "PAF" style design. I can coax a usable tone out of it, but I can't fully bond with it. Mids just go thunk-thunk and no sparkle, not even with a Roland JC. I like the newer stuff though, EMGs, Bartolinis, Lace or Bill Lawrence stuff, these guys all made nice humbucking pickups with a wider and flatter frequency response.

Why would you say this is? I always just thought that input2 was a quieter input...

That's the point, it's padded so that the stronger output doesn't overdrive the preamp. If you want clean from a humbucker, that's the way to go!

Tim

Depends on what I am shooting for but often if I move from single coils to humbuckers I change amplifier as well.

I've had some of the same experiences, and have thought of pulling the Duncan '59 set out of my LP. I think the key is Alnico II humbuckers, which have a lower output and a better mid and bass response. Just a suggestion.

Tim is right, move to the other input. Also, try adjusting your eq. I was a single coil only guy for over 20 years. I usually turn down the treble (both amp and guitar) on my single coil guitars. For me, the humbuckers need the extra high end. I have several guitars (I am a luck guy) and just yesterday was playing the humbuckers. I have really been into my SG Standard lately and boy, does it sound great, both clean and dirty. Every time I am tempted to get different pups for it (often!), I plug in and forget about it. Boy, it took me a long time to begin changing my eq settings (both amp and guitar). Now I can't stop. It's opened up a new world that includes humbuckers! I have a strat copy with a TV Jones Classic in the bridge. Wow. Runs real close to a Tele bridge pup as my favorite. Another disclosure: I'm a bedroom player, so my volume is rarely high.

Doug

sheraton humbuckers arent the best if i recall correctly...disregarding the 60's models which ive played some sweet ones...they come across as a bit muddy...but i have an SG that has insane clarity in the neck and a real biting tone in the bridge...theyre old T-Tops if i recall correctly. my buddy also has a PRS mccarty that sounds sooo sweet and syrupy.

in my experience that the difference between good humbuckers and bad ones is just mind-bogglingly vast. ive hated almost every low end (usually epiphone) humbucker ive played, but their single coil equivalent, lets say squiers are easier to coax better, more useable tones out of.

It's important to remember to plug into input 2 on any Fender or two channel amp when using humbuckers (IMHO)

no, don't do that. Input 2 on its own is a medium impedance input that will kill some highs and also alter the guitar volume taper. Fender tube preamps have no problem handling the extra volume of a humbucker and input 1 will preserve the highs much better.

Had a 60's Gibson SG I never really could find the right sound, maybe cause I was trying to play it clean, (DOH!) Tried a single coil Tele and it was love at first jam. I am definitely a single coils person but today I love classic 57 humbuckers in a 335.

In a Fender Telecaster Custom I would agree the Fender Wide Range Humbuckers aren't that impress,

no, don't do that. Input 2 on its own is a medium impedance input that will kill some highs and also alter the guitar volume taper. Fender tube preamps have no problem handling the extra volume of a humbucker and input 1 will preserve the highs much better.

Don't tell that to the guys at Gibson:

"Tone Tip #1: Clean It Up

Most traditional tube amps have two inputs, one for high gain and the other for low gain, but very few players ever use input 2. Plenty of tone-conscious pros know, however, that plugging into that low-gain input can help clean up fat humbuckers, and in many cases will sweeten your tone."

Link to Article (http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20Clean%20It%20Up/)

I guess it depends ... what amp you use ... what sound you're going for ... and more

That’s my Les Paul and my friend’s amp in 1985


34251


… in 88, I traded it for a high performance HB guitar … that is a killer!

To quote tboy form the SG thread “as it pretty much makes that one sound, but when you need that sound, it's there”

BTW, Lars does a pretty good job with HBs


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I had an Ibanez AFS75T, which uses the same ACH-humbuckers, I think; those where way too dark and muddy for my taste (but then, I play clean most of the time - they might work better with OD sounds).They do tend to overdrive at higher volume settings on my guitar pots.
Leaving them in the lower volume range they come off rather clean, but still very bluesy.
I can't find them muddy at all. In fact, those pups are a rare case in which I actually like to roll back the tone a little, which works with a nice detailed response I have not seen among the usual Fender Standard (MIM) guitars (likewise ceramic magnets).

Ofcourse, I do draw the line between Alnico and ceramic magnets in pickups. The limitations in tonal and harmonic dynamics in ceramics are pretty obvious.

I am not into a lot of distortion or effects in general either. I prefer clean settings for the most part.
I happen to have an inexpensive Ibanez CF7 chorus/flanger and it seems like the AS73 and that pedal blend into each other very well.
Maybe it's Ibanez design factors that go along hand in hand here.

I reckon you must be playing in "high pitch", twangy mode than ... :lol:

Don't tell that to the guys at Gibson:

"Tone Tip #1: Clean It Up

Most traditional tube amps have two inputs, one for high gain and the other for low gain, but very few players ever use input 2. Plenty of tone-conscious pros know, however, that plugging into that low-gain input can help clean up fat humbuckers, and in many cases will sweeten your tone."

Link to Article (http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20Clean%20It%20Up/)

That's right: less gain and less highs. Thanks for the link - I wondered where that idea came from. The quick answer is try it, and use it if you like it.

Why you'd want less highs on fat/hot pickups I'm not sure, but some players like muddy tone. Dave Hunter wrote this article as well as The Guitar Amp Handbook and yet he's overlooked how Fender inputs work when he suggests using an A/B switch to select between inputs to switch tone and gain. When both inputs are used at the same time, they have almost identical gain and impedance. It's only when input 2 is used alone that it changes to low gain (-6dB) and medium impedance (136K instead of 1M). Even if the A/B switch shorts the unused input, they'll still have identical gain and impedance.

What he doesn't tell you is it also changes the guitar volume taper. Maybe some will like the change, it's just different. I notice he doesn't name who these "pros" are either. We agree on low gain and less highs, but I doubt this was tested properly before writing; certainly not the A/B switch. :razz:

I should add that I agree strongly with the main point of his article which is to work from a relatively clean base tone for more versatility.

SD or Fralin HBs are excellent. it's really about what you are trying to do. for me HBs are great for louder harder more distorted music, but i also found that i could get plenty of clean headroom from them. they aren't worse than our beloved SCs, just different.

That's right: less gain and less highs. Thanks for the link - I wondered where that idea came from. The quick answer is try it, and use it if you like it.

Why you'd want less highs on fat/hot pickups I'm not sure, but some players like muddy tone. Dave Hunter wrote this article as well as The Guitar Amp Handbook and yet he's overlooked how Fender inputs work when he suggests using an A/B switch to select between inputs to switch tone and gain. When both inputs are used at the same time, they have almost identical gain and impedance. It's only when input 2 is used alone that it changes to low gain (-6dB) and medium impedance (136K instead of 1M). Even if the A/B switch shorts the unused input, they'll still have identical gain and impedance.

What he doesn't tell you is it also changes the guitar volume taper. Maybe some will like the change, it's just different. I notice he doesn't name who these "pros" are either. We agree on low gain and less highs, but I doubt this was tested properly before writing; certainly not the A/B switch. :razz:

I should add that I agree strongly with the main point of his article which is to work from a relatively clean base tone for more versatility.

Well I never played a Fender amp I had trouble getting treble out of; and...that Bright switch might be there for a reason after all.

Anyway - the Input 2 solution is 1) Free and 2) easily reversed if it doesn't yield results.

Well I never played a Fender amp I had trouble getting treble out of; and...that Bright switch might be there for a reason after all.

Anyway - the Input 2 solution is 1) Free and 2) easily reversed if it doesn't yield results.

Yes I completely agree. As I said, try and and use it if you like it. IMHO it's not a good idea.

I'm merely pointing out what effects it has and some points the original article has overlooked.

Here are my favourite humbuckers:

The Gibson 498T/490R combination in a bright guitar such as typical Gibson maple/mahogany body gives that buttery top end with strong mids. Not like single coils at all, and not great clean, but awesome in overdriven tones.

The Gibson Classic 57s are good, but I prefer them in a darker-toned guitar body, otherwise they can be quite thin and bright.

My favourrite is the DiMarzio BluesBucker which actually has one active and one dummy coil. Great in the neck position for a "strat on steroids" tone, warmish like a humbucker but without the mushy bottom end.

i prefer low inputs on marshalls and fenders even with my strat... less preamp and more power tube distortion!

[edit...double post]

Dunno if anyone responded or not but filtertrons are not typical humbuckers in anyway....they sound unlike anything else. Very crisp and articulate and they have the most magical KRANG I've ever heard

That's a great H-bucker sound from Joefish's U-tube Vid. My Hearing must be going though, couldn't hardly understand a word they are saying. : )

That's a Bucker sound I really like, to me it sounds very PAF-ish.