Am I crazy....A Martin for a Gibson?

I'm a loyal member in good standing over at the UMGF (admittedly I drink the Nazareth Kool-aid). In the five short years I've been playing guitar (started at age 52) I've been fortunate to have assembled a nice collection of guitars. Presently I have a Martin Smartwood OM, a 2006 Martin D18, an Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500M, and the requisite Tele...a '69 RI Thinline.

Lately, the D18 feels too large and unwieldy, but it has a killer sound and sustains from here until next Thursday. My Epiphone, also solid spruce and 'hog, has killer tone very comparable to the much more expensive D18, but it's slightly smaller body with the rounded shoulders is more comfortable to play and it's been getting the nod more frequently.

I've been gassing for something Rosewood for a while now and owning 2 mahagony acoustics seems redundant.

My local store is clearing inventory for 2010 models and has 2 really nice Gibsons for sale at practically give-away prices.

First up is a J45 Rosewood in natural. I think this model has been discontinued and the dealer wants $1700. The other is a Songwriter for $1500 (the Songwriter is a slightly downsized long scale dread and very comfy).

Both Gibsons are new but shopworn with no structural issues. The Songwriter is missing it's pick guard. Both guitars are selling for more than 1/2 of MSRP...excellent deals.

I'm agonizing about my D18...it's gorgeous, loud, nice bearclaw and not a scratch to be found anywhere, and it kills me to consider giving it up. I'm toying with using it as a trade towards one of those 2 Gibsons but pangs of guilt have me in a quandry.

What would you folks do?

Tom

I recently went through a similar situation.

In the end, I sold my D18V and picked up a new J45 Zebrawood. I miss the D18v very much, however I am pleased with my new Gibson. However, my next Dread will be a Martin 28 or 41 series rosewood.

If you can keep the D18 and purchase the Gibson, do it.
If not, play them both (bring your D18 into the store and play it along side the Gibbys) and decide.

Both Martin and Gibson are making some fine acoustics these days.
Good luck.

Man, I am a HUGE Martin fan, but that songwriter model has been calling to me for a couple of years now. If I had something I could give up for one, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Best sounding acoustic model Gibson has EVER built. Every one I've played has been outstanding.

I feel your pain! Right now I'm selling a great D-18V to pick up an OM-28V. It's a journey, and kinda fun at that!

Here's my $.02.
I'd try selling the D-18 outright and buy something like a used OM-28V or 000-28 or OM-21 which will give you the Martin tone you love, in a package that fits you better, for only a few hundred dollars more than the Gibsons you're looking at.

I'd also check the Martin forum, UMGF.com. They've got a very busy classified section and all the transactions I've done have been easy and completely above board.

Just today, there's an 2007 OM-28 for $1900, an OM-28V for $2000, and a 2006 000-28VS for $1850.

Once you register, you can place a free ad. Try to sell the D-18 outright, run a WTB ad for an OM or 000, or run a WTT ad: 2006 D-18 for OM-28 or similar.

No interest in UMGF aside from being a member and satisfied customer.

I love vintage Gibsons, but I think the new ones are kind of hit and miss at best, and in any case, they don't seem to hold their value as well as Martins, which is a real consideration if you're buying new.

FWIW, you're not that far from the Martin factory. They've got a new museum and a pickin' parlor with many new models, and the shop in town, Nazareth Music, has a big selection. If you're considering a new Martin, you might try Maury's Music in Pennsylvania. They're prices are as low as you'll find--mail order or otherwise--and he does great setup work and has an excellent rapport with the factory.

Good luck.
allen

I have an OM 21 . Very nice rosewood guitar,plays beautifully, balanced tone and great projection. More identified with fingerstyle guitar with a slightly wider neck, but a great guitar. But Gibsons are nice too

FWIW, you're not that far from the Martin factory. They've got a new museum and a pickin' parlor with many new models, and the shop in town, Nazareth Music, has a big selection. If you're considering a new Martin, you might try Maury's Music in Pennsylvania. They're prices are as low as you'll find--mail order or otherwise--and he does great setup work and has an excellent rapport with the factory.

I love going to the factory at Naz....I go there twice a year and I'm planning a day in the coming weeks. And both of my Martins were sold by Maury...he's the best in the biz.

I'm primarily a strummer, even on my SWOMGT. I've considered a 00028 but I really enjoy the fully bodied sound of a dread. I've had serious gas for an HD28 but the ergonomics are the same as my D18. The Gibsons, especially the Songwriter, are just "smaller" enough to feel almost like an OM/000 but have the Rosewood thunder sound of a dread. The Gibson necks are interesting too, at least to me....the wider nut coupled with a very low profile and slick neck seem to make for easy barre chords and more hand comfort.

But damn, my D18 is nice. I just can't have both it and a Gibson if I go that route.

Looks like another sleepless nite!!!!!

Tom

Here's my $.02.
I'd try selling the D-18 outright and buy something like a used OM-28V or 000-28 or OM-21 which will give you the Martin tone you love, in a package that fits you better, for only a few hundred dollars more than the Gibsons you're looking at.

I'd also check the Martin forum, UMGF.com. They've got a very busy classified section and all the transactions I've done have been easy and completely above board.

Just today, there's an 2007 OM-28 for $1900, an OM-28V for $2000, and a 2006 000-28VS for $1850.

Once you register, you can place a free ad. Try to sell the D-18 outright, run a WTB ad for an OM or 000, or run a WTT ad: 2006 D-18 for OM-28 or similar.

No interest in UMGF aside from being a member and satisfied customer.

I love vintage Gibsons, but I think the new ones are kind of hit and miss at best, and in any case, they don't seem to hold their value as well as Martins, which is a real consideration if you're buying new.

FWIW, you're not that far from the Martin factory. They've got a new museum and a pickin' parlor with many new models, and the shop in town, Nazareth Music, has a big selection. If you're considering a new Martin, you might try Maury's Music in Pennsylvania. They're prices are as low as you'll find--mail order or otherwise--and he does great setup work and has an excellent rapport with the factory.

Good luck.
allen

Allen has it right on the OM-28V and look for 00 or 000-18s if you love the mahogany.

I spent a year plus trying about every OM I could between $1500-6000+ and the used OM-28V with great setup is in the league of much more expensive instruments. I'm not sure if it's my copy but it has some bark and punch that only Collings had yet it's sweet and a dream to have in your lap compared to my dread. The OM-28V is also superb as far as ease of coaxing out the tone farther up the neck.

I confess to having 7 guitars and admit that I'd be happy if all I could have was the OM-28.

My actual tip or advice is delay the gratification if you can. My spending time and not just bargain hunting made it easy to decide and got the guitar I love long after the honeymoon.

Have fun shopping.

P.S. Look for a J if you love the idea of an HD-28 and the more trim waist line.

there are great Martins and bad ones...I played a new D28 recently that sounded better than my 46 year old Martin (the new scalloped bracing i suppose) and I played a D28 next to that one that was as dead as a doorknob and sounded like a Silvertone.

There are such things as "1%"er's. If you find one, no matter what the headstock says, get it. I would never consider a Gibson or a Takamine - -but if someone put a 1%'er in my hands and the tone was better than I would choose it.

"First up is a J45 Rosewood in natural. I think this model has been discontinued and the dealer wants $1700. The other is a Songwriter for $1500 (the Songwriter is a slightly downsized long scale dread and very comfy)."

The question is how do they sound and do they sound as good or better than your D-18. If not I'd stick with the D-18 until I found something that sounded better.

I'd pick up that 1993 OM-21 that is on the UMGF B&S right now and sell the D-18. You'll probably end up a few dollars ahead of the game in the process and end up with a super comfortable rosewood OM.

You are going to take a loss in a trade, unless you get something that you don't have. You have 2) 25.5 scale and 1) 24.75 scale Mahogany acoustics. You WANT Rosewood, and you need to decide if that Rosewood guitar will be 24 or 25.5 scale. The J-45 is 24.75 and the Songwriter is 25.5. It really all depends on which size neck you like best.

There is a difference.

By the way, a J-45 in Natural is actually called a J-50.

If you think you'll completely be happy with a smaller guitar, I'd go ahead and trade the D-18.

I love my Gibson J-45, I play fingerstyle, some blues, some acoustic rock, little bit of everything. It is one of those guitars that I'll never get rid of. I played 12 J-45's before I purchased it, this was #2 of 12 and I went back to it.

That being said, martin does have a different sound that is still loved and I love their sound too.

Either way, if you don't want something smaller like the 000 series check out the J series or 0000 series. they are a little bit larger than the 0000 but the same style body and neck length as the 000. If you check out elderly.com they have one that has a larger nut width that I have been checking out.

I got one of the Fuller J45's with Adi top, AJ bracing, workmanship is flawless.
I started a thead on it not long ago. Out of 6-7 acoustics it rivals my om18v as my favorite. Price aint bad for what you get either


http://www.fullersguitar.com/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=728&category_id=30

I prefer the Gibson sound over Martin... I own 2 J45's and a L-00 but they are all old. I prefer mahogony over rosewood, mahogany has more "thump" and rosewood sounds more like a Martin. A J45 is not any smaller than a D-18 but may be more comfortable to some because of the more rounded upper bout. I would not buy the songwriter myself. Neither of those sound like a smoking deal unless you are looking at LIST price as a comparison.

I would say trade your Martin for whatever inspires you to play if you get a good deal.

you're not crazy--some of gibson's acoustics are great (the songwriter's a VERY cool model) and i've played martin's that were great and martin's that were "meh." Just because it's a martin doesn't mean you have to love it.

own the guitar that makes you want to play more.

You're not crazy.

They are just guitars.

I have loved Gibsons for whole lot of decades.

Gotta say though, I just played a 1950 Martin D-18 that is among the best guitars I have ever held in my sweaty little hands. There were a few other newer Martins, inlcuding a D-28 and D-35, in the room but the D-18 sent them scurrying for cover. Far more balanced sounding with a tighter bass and slower note decay. Juts a flippin' joy to play.

If I did not think my wife would kill me I would have traded my '60 J-200 in on the Martin in a heartbeat (she loves that J-200). But I drew the line at parting with my old SJ for it. The only way anyone is going to get that one is to yank it out of my cold dead hands.

While price is always important, don't buy based on price as your number one criteria. Buy based on what feels right and sounds right to you. I would take the D-18 in and play both as much as you need. I would also try to find an OM Rosewood model like the OM28 or OM 21 and compare to the D-18.

I'm primarily a strummer, even on my SWOMGT. I've considered a 00028 but I really enjoy the fully bodied sound of a dread. I've had serious gas for an HD28 but the ergonomics are the same as my D18. The Gibsons, especially the Songwriter, are just "smaller" enough to feel almost like an OM/000 but have the Rosewood thunder sound of a dread. The Gibson necks are interesting too, at least to me....the wider nut coupled with a very low profile and slick neck seem to make for easy barre chords and more hand comfort.

You might check out either a Martin Jumbo, or even better an M or 0000 size guitar.
It's essentially an upsized OM, and they're really great guitars. Steve Earle plays one and so does Vince Gill. Maury, of course, can tell you all about them.
Do what makes you happy, of course, but the problem with a Gibson is that you're likely to take a bath on resale if you decide it's not a forever guitar.

First, thanks to all for the many responses, but it looks like the D18 is staying around for a while after all.

Over this last several days I've visited both Gibsons, A/B-ing those two rosewoods. Today I sat down with them again and of the two, the J45 r/w was decidedly more pleasing and easy on the hands. Since my Epi M'bilt is a slope shoulder, this came as no surprise, and I really dug the short scale of the Gibson. And the flavor and sound of Rosewood is intoxicating.

I've been agonizing about giving up the Martin and today I came really close. But speaking with the store owner (whom I've dealt with before) I was informed that the low $1700 price (50% of list) on the J45 was a cash and carry deal. He wasn't entertaining trades as he normally would do since he's clearing inventory for his 2010 stock. No hard feelings...he's a businessman and a good guy, straightforward and honest, so there was no point in pushing the issue. It is what it is.

Being so close to the holidays, I couldn't float the cash and wait until the D18sold either privately or on consignment, so I walked away. I'm disappointed and relieved at the same time.

My dilemma wasn't about how my D18 sounded....the guitar sounds great. But it's been increasing less comfy and that's why the Epi AJ500M has been getting more me-time. Since the Epi is also 'hog, sounds almost as good as the Martin, but is more ergonomic due to it's shoulders and proportions, I started question myself about the need for two 'hogs, one of which wasn't getting as much use.

So the quest and GAS for Rosewood continues. But tonite I'll suck in my belly (probably the reason for the feeling of dread "bigness") and noodle on the Martin.

Cest la vie......

Tom

Don't give up your D-18. You'll miss it. Trust me!

www.edharrismusic.com

On the other hand, it's somewhat good that you've decided to hang on to the D-18. Sooner or later, the Martin will appreciate in value faster than the Gibson, and "traditional" guitarists will ALWAYS want a Martin guitar...myself included. Not that the appreciating value of a Martin guitar matters anyway, right?

I know the problem's solved, but just to throw something in here, my ex plays a relatively new J45 Rosewood in natural, and it has the greatest tone of any non-vintage acoustic I've ever experienced. If the chance ever comes up I'd really recommend putting it onto your collection.

Welll IMHO........IF and I mean IF.....the j45 is absolutely killer I say trade for it....Heres my reasoning


the special run J45 will be a special guitar at some point so get it and enjoy it...

The Martin factory for the last tem years or so has really stepped up their quality with the vintage D18's so........You'll want one as soon as you part with it (D18 that is) and it will be much easierto find a used world class Martin than it will to find a limited run Gibson....I bet you'll have em both within 2 years of the trade!!!!:lol:


JMHO
Bill Hullett

I would listen to Bill. He has probably laid down more tracks in Nashville that just about anyone here.

Everyone on TDPRI can tell a 'I wish I never sold my...' story. Be very certain that you won't miss that D-18 before you let it go. And there is No substitute for a dreadnaught. That said, if you simply don't or can't play it anymore because of its size, then it will do you no good no matter how great it sounds. Have you ever tried a Martin 'M series' guitar? It kind of bridges the world between dreadnaught and OM, and they are great, often overlooked guitars.

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=z&g=j&m=M-36

I would keep the D-18. It sounds like you'd really hate to give it up. Maybe the Gibson gas will pass.........(that would be passing gas I guess! lol...I so funny).
Maybe you can find a used rosewood guitar that won't cause you to lose your mahogany beauty.

Howdy,

I'd hang on to my D-18. Find another way to finance that Gibson. I wouldn't be surprised to see the value of D-18s hold fast; Mahogany is becoming scarce and the D-18 is a classic.

Eggman

PS: I'm a very satisfied D-28 owner and hope to acquire a D-18V next year.