Question for Rhino 3D Users

Well, I figure I'll give it a shot here. I'm limping through Rhino by mostly trial and error and have modeled a couple guitar necks and bodies fairly successfully. I've watched some Youtube videos and worked through some of the Rhino projects.
Here is the question. If I make a body with polysurfaces for the sides and draw in the routs, and extrude them, it looks like a body with the top and back removed. How do I make planar surfaces for the top and back and attach them to the sides I already made? Next question... Why mesh when you have a solid? Next question..... Is there a video or book I can buy to help me. I've printed out some of the tutorials, but not the whole thing. Thanks in advance.
Marty

If I make a body with polysurfaces for the sides and draw in the routs, and extrude them, it looks like a body with the top and back removed. How do I make planar surfaces for the top and back and attach them to the sides I already made?

this sounds familiar. I extruded a curve instead of a surface and ended up with all sides and no top or bottom.

what I should have done is take the outline of the top and made a planar surface and then extruded that surface into a solid.

to fix? see if the curve is still there by clicking on it in what I'll assume is the top view. create a planar surface with it... then copy it and move it to the back. then you can join all three.

here's the thing though... I'm not sure that would constitute a solid... more of a hollow body, if you follow.

You may want to start over with the outline - create the planar surface and then extract that and then difference your routes. It sounds like starting over, but shouldn't take too long.

First off... Rhino will never create a solid as you know it. Basically how Rhino works is by sealing things off. Once sealed the become solid. So to make something hollow you need to create another space within an object (not what you asking but it could be helpful). I've used Rhino for about 4 years, and haven't touched it since I left highschool (too expensive to buy it. haha). There should be manuals you can buy that would help a lot; I used one for my classes. Like Casual Reader said though, just make a planer surface with the body curve, or... highlight your side and press the cap button, or type cap... it basically makes both planes at once for you.

highlight your side and press the cap button, or type cap... it basically makes both planes at once for you.

well, that's just too easy... once you know how.

he'll need to redo the boolean splits after though, right? ...and move a surface or two out of the way to see the result.

Ok, I took Terry Down's drawing and opened it in Rhino. I deleted everything except the perimeter of the body. I joined all the line segments into one closed curve. I tried to make a planar surface out of it and it won't do it......How do I make it planar? It seems like it should be already.

I tried to make a planar surface out of it and it won't do it......How do I make it planar?Select perimeter curves,
Transform>Project To CPlane (or type ProjectToCPlane in command line),
Delete input objects? <yes>

Make sure your curve is actually closed. Make sure that it is unselected and type this in the command line:
SelClosedCrv
If the curve is indeed closed, it should now be selected.

Yep, I did that and it got selected. I clicked on Surface....Planer curves... and it says curve must be closed and planer...???!!!!****

Yep, I did that and it got selected. I clicked on Surface....Planer curves... and it says curve must be closed and planer...???!!!!****Did you project it to the control plane (ProjectToCPlane)? That will make your curve planar.

PM me if you want me to look at your file.

Did you project it to the control plane (ProjectToCPlane)? That will make your curve planar.

Yes, and I just did it again. Is there another command to convert to planar curves besides clicking on planar curve? Thanks,
Marty

...I joined all the line segments into one closed curve. I tried to make a planar surface out of it and it won't do it...I just loaded that file into Rhino and was able to make a planar surface from the main outline with no problems. I am wondering what you mean by the above quote - I didn't have to join any line segments. I just selected the main outline and used PlanarSrf on it. Are you trying to join the curves from the neck pocket to the outline?

marty - I'd think it's clear by now that I'm as much a n00b to rhino as you are... so with that in mind, here's my thoughts:

when I make an outline a surface, I have the closed/joined outline selected and go to the menu under surface and down to "planar curves". Clicking on the outline after shows I have both an outline and surface.

In reading what you've done with the rev D pdf... I'd assume you deleted a bunch of the extra stuff by clicking and dragging and hitting delete... which leads me to suspect that you used the same click and drag to select the outline when you joined them all together. The potential problem with that is overlapping and duplicate lines not allowing a clean outline. They'll join, but might not be actually closed.

with a drawing from somewhere else, I'd zoom in and select the segments one at a time. Click the first and hold down the shift key as I move along the outline - joining occasionally in case a mis-click loses what I've selected so far. As I went along, I'd check that the segments butt up against each other.

I got it. I tried to copy and paste it into a new file. I didn't end up with the perimeter. Somewhere along the way I must have compromised the perimeter line. I started again by deleting all the routs and then joining the lines. That did the trick and it is now planar. Thanks for the help.

This is a great program. I learned drafting with a tsquare and a drawing board. Folks today don't know how well off they are....LOL.

Ah, now I see what's going on... the outline in the .pdf file is made out of hundreds of line segments. Try loading the .dwg version of the file - I think you'll find it a lot easier to work from.

Clicky (http://terrydownsmusic.com/Archive/Tele_body_drawing_revD.dwg)

I opened it in BobCad and saved to Rhino as an IGES file this time. My elderly version of BobCad only can handle Rhino 3.0 files. It will convert to 4.0 in Rhino itself. I suspect that may have been the problem.... onto making a solid.... we make small gains and that is progress I guess. :-).

Ah, now I see what's going on... the outline in the .pdf file is made out of hundreds of line segments. Try loading the .dwg version of the file - I think you'll find it a lot easier to work from.

Clicky (http://terrydownsmusic.com/Archive/Tele_body_drawing_revD.dwg)

yeah - what he said!

I'm sending you a file to your outside email with some extra goodies.

Next question. If I am making a neck and I have a rectangular cross sectional part attached to a half cylinder ( peghead to neck), do I use the blend surface command to make that transition, or is there something better? Thanks again!

Next question. If I am making a neck and I have a rectangular cross sectional part attached to a half cylinder ( peghead to neck), do I use the blend surface command to make that transition, or is there something better? Thanks again!I've been staring at the neck of my telecaster for the past few minutes - alls I can say is it's not that easy of a shape to recreate in a 3D program. The tricky part is the way the thickest part of the neck blends back into the flat part of the headstock - I'm not explaining it well, but it is a pretty complex blend.

I wonder if it would be easier to model some facets first and then try the blend command and then manipulate the control points. What I need is a program with about 30 commands, not 1000....LOL.
Marty

What I need is a program with about 30 commands, not 1000...But then you'd only be able to do 0.03 of what you can do in Rhino...

You can't manipulate control points on a poly surface directly - you have to expode the object into separate components and work from there. Do-able, but painstaking and time-consuming. Rhino 4 has tools that can work directly on poly surfaces - so this shape would be a heck of a lot easier to do in version 4. The real trick is figuring out the steps you need to take and visualizing the shapes you need to start with to arrive at the desired result. At this point, I am stumped.

If I were to carve a neck, the cross section would be a rectangle at both the peghead and the neck. I'd first taper the neck and cut curves to transition the neck to the peghead. Then I'd put 45 degree bevels on the neck sides and transition that into the curves going to the peghead. Then I'd take those facets and break those angles with 2 more facets and so on until the neck has infinite facets along the length which would then be a curve.

If I were to carve a neck, the cross section would be a rectangle at both the peghead and the neck. I'd first taper the neck and cut curves to transition the neck to the peghead. Then I'd put 45 degree bevels on the neck sides and transition that into the curves going to the peghead. Then I'd take those facets and break those angles with 2 more facets and so on until the neck has infinite facets along the length which would then be a curve.

I am by no means a Rhino expert, but I can tell you if you want to model necks effeciently, you must learn how to build curves in 3d. I do this using all four views, though all may not be open at the same time. I build the curves using control points and once I have them the way I want them, I create the surfaces most of the time using curve network. I don't have the time at the moement to show you what I am talking about, but will try to do so this evening.

For a really good tut on neck modeling in Rhino, go to the OLF forum under cnc and look for a thread by Parser about modeling a neck.

Mike

this would be the thread Mike is referring to:
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=13037

the learning curve just got steeper. What fun!

Yes, I had that on my computer for a while and took a look at it a few weeks ago, but makes more sense now. I just did a neck and that network surface is the bee's knees for the transitions we were talking about. You just need to have cross sections from round to rectangular and it does it.... cool. After creating the solid, you explode it, and then explode the mating surface. I just redrew it as a closed curve and then connect them to the cross section of the neck shaft. Thanks again.