Does anyone know what Bob Dylan is talking about here?

In his book "Chronicles" Dylan talks about something he supposedly learned from Lonnie Johnson- "based on an odd instead of even-number based system"... "A highly controlled system of playing" that "relates to the notes of the scale, how they combine numerically, how they form melodies out of triplets."
"Popular music is usually based on the number 2... If you're using an odd numerical system, things that strengthen a performance begin to happen...In a diatonic scale there are eight notes. In a pentatonic scale there are five. If you're using the first scale and you hit 2, 5 and 7 to the phrase and then repeat it, a melody forms. Or you can use the 4 once and the 7 twice... the possibilities are endless... I'm not a numerologist. I don't know why the number three is more metaphysically powerful than the number 2, but it is. Passion and enthusiasm, which sometimes can be enough to sway a crowd, aren't even necessary. You can manufacture faith out of nothing and there are infinite number of patterns and lines that connect from key to key." - Does this make sense to anyone?

I was puzzled by this, too. I have no idea what he is talking about. Also, this doesn't look right: "In a diatonic scale there are eight notes. In a pentatonic scale there are five." The diatonic scale as 7 notes, not 8.

But, boy, what a great book. I think he surprised a lot of people with this.

I enjoyed the book but I'm not sure that most of it was meant to be understood :lol: The quote above reminds me of the section where he talked about learning a different way to sing.....

Whatever the theory is it seemed to work for the 'ol Man at the Hollywood Palladium (Oct 13). Strong performance by him and his band. Charlie Sexton sizzled on a black telecaster during Highway 61.

I'm just as confused as the next guy. And while I admire some of his music, it's never seemed especially complicated. But then again, I don't listen to as much Dylan as other folks might, he's not quite my cup of tea.

does anyone ever understand what he's talking about?

that was one of my favorite parts of the book because it was so insane...

i have to find that book.

I saw an interview with Dylan...I think on 60 minutes...

He's an enigma. I don't think he really lives in the same world as us. JMO.

Is it true that he was best friends with Manson?

eddie - would you want to read the English version? If that works for you I will look for my copy and send it to you.

You can file this under the way too deep for way too long section of the internet. But if you want to know something someone thought about, in regards to the Dylan chronicles music sorcery thing, check this link... (http://www.dylanchords.com/professors/lonnie.htm)

I love the guys site and all, but I honestly got too blasted by this stuff to really take it too seriously...

analysis of Dylan is futile — as emu says, he's in his own world. but it's fun trying to figure it out, even if most of the riddles have no answer.

Actually if you conceive of it as a "method" to organize your musical thinking its abstract but valid.
You can think about rhythmic patterns in the same way. Its a math oriented means to generate themes and rhythms based on sequence and patterns of numbers.
I think its enigmatic due to the fact that its under explained in the book.
I and many others do this all the time.
It reminded me of my composition studies. There are methods that generate "material" that are not based on inspiration. You generate the material and classify it after the fact.
You can also use similar methods to improvise accompaniment patterns.
What Mr. Bob is talking about is one method with which a musician can think his way out of cliche and habit.

that little clip of text is kind of hard to decipher, but it seems to have more to do with rhythmic content than harmonic...

then again, anyone who says a diatonic scale has 8 notes is doing their own thing anyway, and maybe it isn't meant to be understood! whatever bob's doing, it's good.

I would 'imagine' that when he says 8 notes in the diatonic scale he's including the next octave root tone. You know ... C to C (?) Many people refer to a scale that way. Other than that, no clue whatsoever. He's Bob Dylan - !

*the clearest insight into Dylan (I think) are Joan Baez interviews.

I would 'imagine' that when he says 8 notes in the diatonic scale he's including the next octave root tone. You know ... C to C (?) Many people refer to a scale that way. Other than that, no clue whatsoever. He's Bob Dylan - !

*the clearest insight into Dylan (I think) are Joan Baez interviews.

By that way of thinking, the pentatonic would have 5 notes. I have no problem with someone say on or the other, but both, maybe not. It is an easy thing to clarify on his part, and something not too mysterious, so why not? Or maybe he just likes to say things off the top of his head without backing up to so it it makes sense.

Penta would have 6 notes following the Bob Dylan school of music theory.
He also almost always plays Dm with F in the bass - fact (it's a little Dylanny thing).

check this link... (http://www.dylanchords.com/professors/lonnie.htm)
..

Math and music is my main research area and I couldn't make head or tails out of this, either. The author might certainly be onto something, but presentation is everything. If you are going to talk music and math, you must be absolutely crystal clear about your terms and relations. Otherwise, while you might be doing criticism, you are not doing math.

This is not to say that Dylan is not gifted with a very fast, fluid mind. There is a video out there of him reading text off of ads on a telephone pole, re-combining the words faster than anyone could humanly think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc38Uy-i1lA

Math and music is my main research area and I couldn't make head or tails out of this, either. The author might certainly be onto something, but presentation is everything. If you are going to talk music and math, you must be absolutely crystal clear about your terms and relations. Otherwise, while you might be doing criticism, you are not doing math.

This is not to say that Dylan is not gifted with a very fast, fluid mind. There is a video out there of him reading text off of ads on a telephone pole, re-combining the words faster than anyone could humanly think.



i think this hits closest to home.

i dont know dylan but when i lived in minnesota, playing music, i ran into a few peeps who did. as much as anyone can really get close to him...

here's what ive gathered about bob:

- yes, bob is in his own world. hes been deemed "special" at a very young age and hasnt lived much like the rest of us.

- hes guarded since he found peeps climbing on his roof in woodstock many years ago.

- hes brilliant, quick, articulate and possess a creative mind; but may not REALLY know what hes talking about. remember, he did not graduate from college and has no real formal training in much of anything... at least university type training. hes been around and is an KEEN OBSERVER, as all great artists are. this is his gift.

- he enjoys playing games and very well could be fabricating the whole thing.

- at times, when recognized, he does not even admit to being bob dylan . i think he enjoys doing this... he definately likes to create illusions, too.

and THEREFORE

i dont think that a lot of what bob says is meant to be taken that seriously. he might just be intertwining reality with his very active imagination. and, i think he writes mostly from inspiration... not numerical theory. (remember him walking around at night in the rain by himself in nj, a few weeks ago? was he out looking for inspiration? id say so.)

rand z

Fc38Uy-i1lA

When i was a kid, maybe 14 or 15, i decided to understand all the lyrics on "blonde on blonde", then i gave up trying. This man is a mystery, a great poet and songwriter but a mystery in motion. I've also try to understand this strange story about the numbers in his book, but maybe it's only understandable in Dylan's world.
By the way, for Dylan' fan there is a great website here: http://dylanchords.info/

I was watching a documentary on Johnny Mercer the other night on Turner Classic Movies and noticed that he had one thing in common with Bob Dylan-- they both memorized thousands of songs when they were kids. I think that may have something to with their songwriting facility. They had a mess of song forms, lyric ideas, rhyme schemes, etc. kicking around in their heads so it all came more easily to them.

I think if a person tries to get fit Dylan into what they know or what they believe or theories that other people have... they will fail.

And since failing sucks, they'll blame Dylan. If you have ever worked with geniuses, you learn to take them as they are and try to bend to their genius and see it for what it is and accept that you may not grasp all of it because, well, they might be have insights we just don't have.....

Now, a guy might be tempted to say 'the emperor' or 'snake oil' or whatever... but, I think Dylan stands the test of time.

I remember reading once that he told another artist 'you don't owe the fans anything. You owe your art. Never ever do what you think they want, do what you want to do."

to me, about the best advice I've read....

I'll bet if he played what he is talking about... it would be pretty mindblowing for some of us....

If we look at Tom Petty's growth during and after the Wilbury's experience... anyone who can't see Dylan's productivity ideas is not looking very closely... I think Tom got some very specific ideas about his work that really informed him to the degree that he became a true master songwriter....

This is not to say that Dylan is not gifted with a very fast, fluid mind. There is a video out there of him reading text off of ads on a telephone pole, re-combining the words faster than anyone could humanly think.

I've seen that clip. Humans can think that fast... depending on what they ingest/snort. Bob Dylan might be a bright guy, but that was speed.

I'm certainly no Dylan scholar, only a fan but the best 'insight' I ever gleaned about the man (other than just digging his music) was through the Al Kooper book "Backstage Passes and Backstabbing Basta*rds". Great read!

OK...I just ran this quote past Bob's bandleader from "Rolling Thunder".
Here are a few exerpts "Lonnie was in the Village when Bob showed up in '59...who knows what they came up with..."
He thinks he could possibly have been alluding to the Nashville number system, but added that Bob is a totally intuitive player, so it doesn't really seem like him.
He also said, "Remember, he is the Jokerman."

One day in March 1978 I was having a beer in the King George bar of the Crest Hotel in Brisbane when Bob walked in ( He was staying in the hotel on tour).

After he ordered his drink I turned to him and said Hi.

He replied Hi.

I am so glad he respected my privacy and didn't start asking me what I meant.