Laura

Discussions about tunes with key centres that are ambiguous came into my mind the other night while I was playing in the house band with some visiting artists at a major brass festival. One of the trombone players called "Laura" and as I tried to recall the tune it struck me that I hear this tune almost squarely in two keys - which messed me up a little as I was recalling the changes -
Ive written it starting on ii- Am - and I have seen this chart written in G - with one sharp. But there is also a case for C major where the tune resolves- with the tune starting on the relative minor

But the tune starts with a compelling ii-V to G.

I tried to hear the final C as just a chord IV with the gravity moving toward the G major in bar 3 on the recap. But Im not convinced. Maybe its just because I hadnt played it for awhile - :confused:

Sorry cant notate the melody here but it basically voice leads from the 9th on the min chords through the #5 of the V7 to the ninth on the maj7s
I really dont believe that this tune modulates - most of these standards don't to any real degree, but the chords from the Fm in the last 8 of the tune definitely shift the harmonic gravity to Am and then to C.

Really like to know what you all think- in G, in C , or in Am?




Laura
Am9 | Am9 D7b9#5| GMaj9| C9
Gm9|Gm9 C7b9#5 | FMaj9 | ////
Fm9 |Bb7b9| Eb Maj7| Cm7 Cm7/Bb
Am7b5 |D7#11| Bm7 CMaj7| Bm7b5 E7|

Am9 | Am79 D7b9#5| GMaj9| C9
Gm9|Gm9 C7b9#5 | FMaj9| ////|
Fm9 Fm/ Eb | Dm7b5 /Bm7b5 E7| Am11|D13
Ebm9 Ab7 | Dm7 G7 | Cmaj 7| (E7)|

Finally, a tune I play a lot. Laura is pretty clearly in "C". Like many standards, movie scores from the golden era, and Jazz tunes, it goes through various tone centers, but it's full of anchors in "C".
It starts in the relative minor, the first 8 bar section ends on the IV in a predictable manner, the second 8 bar phrase turns around to the VI with the VII chord of "C", which forms the minor II V of A min.
Last time around, it lands squarely on the V as a 7th and most players end with that stock ending that descends from the bV half diminished through the diatonic changes to the I. Whenever a tune tags this way, it leads you to the final key signature, in this case, also the main key of the tune from the start.

Think of the first line as 6-2-5-1 in C.

yeah, it's pretty common for jazz tines and standards to move a little bit between keys, but if i was writing a chart for "laura" it'd be in C.

great tune btw--check out jonanthan kriesberg's version.

and Barney Kessel's version.

short answer...Key of C!!!...:wink:

It's been a while since I've been playing classic "jazz" or heavily studied it...so I guess the jazz guy might have better ways of seeing things.

I learned a few formal ways of looking at it, some of it related to classical harmony with notations something like...

iv (v of) - ii (v of) - V (v of) - I
Am..........Dm.........G............C

all gets a bit complicated but kind of reveals how things work as one chord to another. The ii-V-I language and expectations of the listener was pretty well entrenched though to allow these things.

A lot of people have some trouble with jazz tunes, not just because of chromatic extensions to the harmony and in the melody, but because they often start somewhere in a ii-V-I sequence or chain them together as in this tune.

I tend to look at this kind of composition, unlike a "pop song" these days that establishes a "key" or tonality by starting straight out from the I chord, as a series of 'changes' working towards a key centre, and that each "key centre' is revealed as relating to the whole. Part of the beauty or "cleverness" is that 'pay off' and the subtle twists that come along the way.

So, lets see...

Really like to know what you all think- in G, in C , or in Am?


Laura


Am9 | Am9 D7b9#5| GMaj9| C9
vi (ii of....(ii.....V)).......V......I

so working towards the key centre.


Gm9 |Gm9 C7b9#5 | FMaj9 | ////
(vi (ii of..(ii...V))......IV)

...same moves towards IV

Fm9 |Bb7b9| Eb Maj7| Cm7 Cm7/Bb
(ii......V........I (rel maj of) i (parallel minor)

so, same ii-v-I sequence to the relative major, getting you into the minor of the key...Eb could also be seen to be a pivot chord of Cm with a third in the bass, revealing this...

Starts a descending bass line over a "static" Cm...
Eb (Cm/Eb)-Cm-Cm/Bb to Cm/A (=Am7b5) making a pivot chord in the next line...

Am7b5 |D7#11| Bm7 CMaj7| Bm7b5 E7|
(ii............V of....).*V of I..........((ii.....V of)...iv)

*V, Bm7 may be heard as a Gmaj7(9) in first inversion, another pivot chord idea similar to the first line into the home key, but also in the next bar the ii in a ii-V-i to the vi...setting up the second part by not resolving into the home key but it's relative minor...


Am9 | Am79 D7b9#5| GMaj9| C9
as before
Gm9|Gm9 C7b9#5 | FMaj9| ////|
as before
Fm9 Fm/ Eb | Dm7b5 /Bm7b5 E7| Am11|D13

similar decending bass line as in Cm but in Fm...so iv of the key...
Fm-Fm/Eb-Fm7/D (=Dm7b5)
Dm7b5 could also be seen as a pivot chord...Bm7b5 being Dm/B
which itself is a pivot chord being also ((ii(b5) of V of i) vi) or ii-V-i back to vi or the relative minor of the key...so lots of "deceptive cadences" going on...Am being used as a (ii-V) of V...so, overall a string of ii-V-I's leading to V...or at least V of V!!!

Ebm9 Ab7 | Dm7 G7 | Cmaj 7| (E7)|
(ii......V) b5sub) ii...V7....I.........(turnaround V of vi if starting again)

...


Hmmm, it's been a while since I broke things down like this, generally I am looking at this kind of thing as
*working toward I and establishing the "home key" and the ii-v-I "language"
*repeating this for IV
*repeating this to wind up in the relative major revealing the parallel minor (minor of the home key)
*starting a repeat into the V with an expectation of I in the form but also using a first inversion maj7 in V so that one might think we are "modulating to G" (or V's key centre) where I (Cmaj7) would be the IV chord (but with a first inversion not "conclusive" as a V-I would be), but "deceptively" setting it up as a ii-V back into the beginning again.

*Having established that form, it repeats, but this time explores the minor iv (the minor i tonality again) with a similar bass movement, pivoting towards a ii-V of V (the D13 chord)
* The last line delays V7, a decisive return to the home key by 'playing with' the ii-v of V thing through b5 subs hinting at the minor key again along the way, but firmly resolving back to I the "key centre"

...

A more flippant (an much shorter) and even useful "analysis" would be...

blah,blah,blah...I
yeah,yeah, yeah....IV
again, again, again...ohhh....minor i
how are you going to get out of this in 4 bars....V-I (V of vi, to go around again)

ok,ok,ok...I
right,so....IV
not again...ohhh...minor iv...ahhh...V of V
delay,delay...ii-V7-I (care to take a solo?)

...

Audiences of the time and people who uphold the tradition were/are very attuned to ii-V-I movements. By this time also the neat chromatic movements made by those b5 and b9 chords. Similar in many ways as in baroque and classical music in many ways in terms of harmonic manipulation (V-I movements, relative and minor modulations, pivoting harmonies, etc). I think there is an expectation that in some convoluted way you'd get an underlying I-IV-I-V-I kind of sequence one way or another and liked the revealing and toying with that. I also wonder sometimes if every time a minor chord is played in a tune like this (and heard by a jazz buff) it is somehow sets up an expectation of a ii-V movement, if the I turns out to be another minor chord, the start of a sequence of the things...hahaha

However "silly" the more "flippant" analysis is, it can be quite a useful tool for introducing the finer details and the idea of working towards the key centre, especially for people not familiar with the expectations of the genre and revealing the underlying and fairly familiar overall harmonic form.

But I'm sure this is all more than enough from me...:oops:

Thanks all - its not a tune Ive played very much.

Yeah Im hip to key centres moving around - there are certainly curlier tunes than this one (Very Early ,Lush Life spring to mind)and I do hear it in C . But I dont think its that cut and dried in the first A.
My first intro to this tune was Bird with Strings which is all over the shop harmonically with several modulations written in,so I never really 'heard' it straight until I played it with a singer.
I tried hearing it as a strong VI II V I at the top but its not working for me for several reasons - one is that the chords don't function that way which is probably just a red herring , but another is that the first phrase cadences on the G major and another is that after the first two bars, the progression , G down through tones to Eb is identical to How High the moon - even to the point of moving from the Eb via its relative minor to Am7b5 to D7 - that still feels 'Harmonic centre G' to me.

On top of that you have the melody meandering through 9ths and 13ths - I guess its all relative but its not as clearly in its home key to me up front as a whole heap of other tunes are that start on what seems like a ii V.

I think this is a killer tune because of this - the harmony seems set up to feel like its heading back to G - the root movement is set up to travel the well worn path of ii V iii IV iii VI ii V back to the second bar of A2.

The Am seems to be , if you'll excuse the use of some academic lingo, the pivot chord here.

The cadence to C at the end is unequivocal IMHO -and beautifully thought out, but theres some sneaky stuff going on before the last 8 I reckon- great tune.

Strat is it customary to start the descending bV progression where the Eb is in the melody - so the C chord appears in the last bar instead of the second to last? interested to know -

Kreisberg yeah - I'll check that one out.

I was fortunate enough to actually speak with the composer, David Raksin about this tune personally (we were related by marriage, he passed in '04).
His original autograph score and a subsequent sheet music version edited by him is 'written' in C. He was always a game player. This is what he said when I asked him ...
"it's a tune that starts in G that happens to end in C". He said that with a little smile and a sideways glance but that's what he said. By saying in G he was being David Raksin. Because so many say C, he made a "game" out of it. Sometimes he liked to emphasize that went through 3 keys before landing on C.
*He composed the main theme 'Laura' from melodic material that was contained in his score.

One thing he was pretty specific about was that in bars 3 and 4 it's | Gmaj9 G6 | G6 | no C9 or anything else - just stay on the G6. And, in bar 10 it's a Bb7sus4 to Bb7. Though he seemed, away from the theory and composers intentions discussions, to be perfectly fine with how anyone played it and was thrilled that people still did play it (Parker's was favorite). "Laura" incidentally runs neck and neck with Paul McCartney's "Yesterday" for most recorded song.

Great stories from that guy. Loved Frank Zappa!

I was fortunate enough to actually speak with the composer, David Raksin about this tune personally (we were related by marriage, he passed in '04).
His original autograph score and a subsequent sheet music version edited by him is 'written' in C. He was always a game player. This is what he said when I asked him ...
"it's a tune that starts in G that happens to end in C". He said that with a little smile and a sideways glance but that's what he said. By saying in G he was being David Raksin. Because so many say C, he made a "game" out of it. Sometimes he liked to emphasize that went through 3 keys before landing on C.
*He composed the main theme 'Laura' from melodic material that was contained in his score.

One thing he was pretty specific about was that in bars 3 and 4 it's | Gmaj9 G6 | G6 | no C9 or anything else - just stay on the G6. And, in bar 10 it's a Bb7sus4 to Bb7. Though he seemed, away from the theory and composers intentions discussions, to be perfectly fine with how anyone played it and was thrilled that people still did play it (Parker's was favorite). "Laura" incidentally runs neck and neck with Paul McCartney's "Yesterday" for most recorded song.

Great stories from that guy. Loved Frank Zappa!

Many, if not most, standards progress through more than one tone centers. I find that older composers I've met and worked with tend to use the word "key" instead of tone center, and they'll say "go from this key to that key", as in "I'll Remember April" jumping tone centers from G to Bb to G to E, back to G again. Interestingly, even when you're looking at the personal manuscript of the composer, there's no key change ... there's no modulation, no new accidentals in a new key signature.
The word "key" is used generally to mean tone center ... I'd rather use it to mean strictly the accidentals listed at the start of a tune or a section that established the common accidentals until a formal key change. Until we agree on the definitions, we're talking about two different things.

One thing he was pretty specific about was that in bars 3 and 4 it's | Gmaj9 G6 | G6 | no C9 or anything else - just stay on the G6. And, in bar 10 it's a Bb7sus4 to Bb7. Though he seemed, away from the theory and composers intentions discussions, to be perfectly fine with how anyone played it and was thrilled that people still did play it !

interesting...i always play an Ab-6 in bar 10, but that works also, of course. that's why you gotta love this stuff...you can't reharm "sweet home alabama" without getting some looks!

I always think "how high the moon" when I want to put back the sound of strings of ii-V-I's in my head.

It's good that the composer liked to hear his music interpreted in many ways. I prefer the G6 in there to the C9...(G6 being an inversion of Cmaj7(9))...and I think a lot of this kind and level of composition played off the ambiguity of things.

There is a lot more detail in there, or at least possible, than such a chord chart might at first implies. I'm quite taken with the implied falling chromatic lines in the changes...

You got to admire the complexity and accomplishments of composers and arrangers of that era for sure...it's unfortunately a music that I fell out of after pursuing it for quite a bit back in the mid 80's. The tradition is strong, but I wonder if I have missed equally good compositions since the "golden era" or did people just stop writing tunes like this?

I was fortunate enough to actually speak with the composer, David Raksin about this tune personally (we were related by marriage, he passed in '04).
His original autograph score and a subsequent sheet music version edited by him is 'written' in C. He was always a game player. This is what he said when I asked him ...
"it's a tune that starts in G that happens to end in C". He said that with a little smile and a sideways glance but that's what he said. By saying in G he was being David Raksin. Because so many say C, he made a "game" out of it. Sometimes he liked to emphasize that went through 3 keys before landing on C.
*He composed the main theme 'Laura' from melodic material that was contained in his score.

One thing he was pretty specific about was that in bars 3 and 4 it's | Gmaj9 G6 | G6 | no C9 or anything else - just stay on the G6. And, in bar 10 it's a Bb7sus4 to Bb7. Though he seemed, away from the theory and composers intentions discussions, to be perfectly fine with how anyone played it and was thrilled that people still did play it (Parker's was favorite). "Laura" incidentally runs neck and neck with Paul McCartney's "Yesterday" for most recorded song.

Great stories from that guy. Loved Frank Zappa!


Wow! Thats great to know.

Its definitely a game. He was inferring that it goes through G, F and Eb before it gets to C ?
The point of the game though is that when you get to the end it feels like it was in C all along - that's great composing chops - and why it happened to stump me a little. I was thinking about it and it occurs to me that the keys of C and G are so close in terms of the tones they share - apart from F-F#, it's only a few chords within each that key define a difference -
D7 appears several times through the first 24 bars - and we dont see a G7 until the last 8. But the root movement hovers a little around Am and F as well and I wonder if they are the 'aural' cues as to the final cadence.

interesting...i always play an Ab-6 in bar 10, but that works also, of course. that's why you gotta love this stuff...you can't reharm "sweet home alabama" without getting some looks!

Though he knew and liked to improvise and re-harm stuff as much as the next guy (played alto in Dorsey's band for a while and would freely interpret his own tunes), he wrote so much that when it came to 'playing the song' he preferred the intended melody, harmony and bass motion.

I wish I would've asked him about SHA. He would have said, "well' lets listen to it".

Well...it's a lovely song, and I really do hear it wafting through various "key centers" and the I is not really "revealed" till the very end. I did reference it to several versions, Carly Simon with orchestra and a bare piano interpretation before I pulled it apart, but expectations and hindsight of the "key" got the better of me...hahaha

It's nice how the composition and arrangement mirrors the lyric and melodrama...

"the strangest and dangerous experience in love and murder" as per the trailer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBddkJd6VEQ&feature=related

"oh you poor girl, I bet he still does the polka"...hahaha..."every woman will feel when it comes to men, Laura gets by with murder; every man will feel when it comes to murder, it couldn't involve a more enticing girl"

Ahhh...a different time...still...

But it's interesting to hear how these tunes developed from almost symphonic treatment in the movie score to a vehicle for improvisation.

Its definitely a game. He was inferring that it goes through G, F and Eb before it gets to C ?

Sort of.
Game for him in the sense that since everybody else say's it's in "C" - I'm gonna say it's in "G". I'm pretty sure though in actual fact that he considered it to be in C, push comes to shove.

*The director of 'Laura' (Gene Tierney, Dana Andrews) was Otto Preminger. He wanted either 'Summertime' (of which Ira wouldn't give the rights to use) or 'Sophisticated Lady' to be the theme under the credits, both intro and outro credits. David told Preminger that either of those two songs, while great, were totally wrong for the film. Preminger told him that if he could come up with something better by Monday (allegedly this conversation took place on a Friday afternoon - ?) he'd use it. The rest is music history.
My personal favorite David Raksin piece is his theme for the Ben Casey TV show. Cool odd meter thing.

Sort of.
Game for him in the sense that since everybody else say's it's in "C" - I'm gonna say it's in "G". I'm pretty sure though in actual fact that he considered it to be in C, push comes to shove.

:mrgreen:

I checked out Kreisberg's version of this - some parts of the song quite reharmonised. I'll sus it out when I get time..

Great acoustic guitar tone - wow.

Sort of.
Game for him in the sense that since everybody else say's it's in "C" - I'm gonna say it's in "G". I'm pretty sure though in actual fact that he considered it to be in C, push comes to shove.

*The director of 'Laura' (Gene Tierney, Dana Andrews) was Otto Preminger. He wanted either 'Summertime' (of which Ira wouldn't give the rights to use) or 'Sophisticated Lady' to be the theme under the credits, both intro and outro credits. David told Preminger that either of those two songs, while great, were totally wrong for the film. Preminger told him that if he could come up with something better by Monday (allegedly this conversation took place on a Friday afternoon - ?) he'd use it. The rest is music history.
My personal favorite David Raksin piece is his theme for the Ben Casey TV show. Cool odd meter thing.

Wow...having that kind of suggestion and coming up with something as different and unique as this really says something...a lot of people might have tried to do a poor imitation.

I like the parallel between the delaying of the key, it's kind of drifting and turns and "other-worldliness" of the melody alluding to all that extended harmony, all the different motif elements...and the subject and mystery of the "story". I don't know if I have seen it, but I gather it is a who-done-it kind of thing where "the girl" (victim) is already dead and retracing her life up to the murder, the music perfectly kind of expresses that sensibility and the lyrics.

Do you know if the Mercer lyrics were written first (or were the lyrics put to the tune), and was the orchestration and arranging also by the composer?

...

Ben Casey...came out the year I was born, but kind of remember if from re-runs...I looked it up and you know, the theme is the only thing I remember of it...hahhaa

Yes, very nice, seems to have a lot of Stravinsky-esque elements, obviously a versatile composer with imagination...it's renewing my appreciation for what these kinds of guys were up to, thanks

Do you know if the Mercer lyrics were written first (or were the lyrics put to the tune), and was the orchestration and arranging also by the composer?
Johnny Mercer's lyrics came immediately afterwards. They were good buddies.
(and speaking of lyrics, there's a great Spike Jones version of 'Laura')
Unless he was pressed for time, DR did all his own orch. and arr.
He was 'the real deal'. Hung out with Arnold Schoenberg and Luciano Berio as well as Charlie Chaplin, Michaelangelo Antonionni and John Cassavetes (did the Cassavetes film 'Too Late Blues'). He was one of the last of that type of 'old hollywood' scenester. Even in his mid 80's he loved to hang out at gigs. Drove a metallic champagne pink Jag with the license plate 'Orpheo'. I miss that guy!



Yes, very nice, seems to have a lot of Stravinsky-esque elements, obviously a versatile composer with imagination...it's renewing my appreciation for what these kinds of guys were up to, thanks
He scored the original band instrumentation of Igor Stravinsky's Circus Polka, choreographed (for elephants) by George Balanchine. (At the rehearsal in Madison Square Garden the elephants stampeded!)

1) I'm glad to see so much discussion of one of my favorite tunes, and

2) Thread hijack:

(did the Cassavetes film 'Too Late Blues')

Has anyone else ever seen the TV series "Johnny Staccato?" Ran two seasons in 1959-60. Starred John Cassavetes as a -- get this -- jazz pianist/private detective. :!: The show was very much in the film noire genre, and featured a number of real jazzers playing in Johnny's favorite jazz club hangout. Definitely worth checking out if you can find the DVD. :cool:

K, we can go back to talking about "Laura" now... ;-) CS

No hi-jack at all Chris.
"Too Late Blues" is similar (movie involving music and musicians - Bobby Darin, as the leader of a jazz quintet) in that there is 'live' music that had to be composed while the movie was being shot so that the actors could time their lines.

I have seen a couple of the Johnny Stacatto episodes. Great period TV and classic Cassavetes.

Memories straining now - Johnny Stocatto? nup must have missed that one down under - unless I was just too young...:wink:

Yup...me too, I only know a lot of this stuff as I used to work early as a kid, but get up even earlier to watch shows like Gene Autry and that old samuri thing from japan and stuff...and a bunch of these old movies. I have "heard" of Johnny Staccato, but never seen it. Australia is a long way away from this kind of stuff and TV and such has always had to make way for a substantial british content.

Back on topic, was thinking about this this morning (as I drove across the island where I live these days) and remembering when I actually did play in a kind of "jazz band". piano,e-bass,drums,e-guitar (sometimes two) sax and sometimes trumpet. A lot of fun taking "charts" and working up arrangements, flying by the seat of our pants.

Me and the sax player were the main soloists and melody instruments, but the piano player was pretty good to. Hahaha...I remember playing a "big gig" and the lights came up and the piano player later told me that she almost passed out when she saw "steinway" atop the ekyboard of a giant grand, the same gig the sax player finished his solo in the second song, passed out, hit the floor and was helped side stage by the trumpet player who was promptly thrown up on...500 people in the audience, the show must go on...

Anyway, never played laura, would have been a good one. I always loved doing 'where have you been all of my life' with that harmonic minor line. Just not enough people around here to play anything like this, I did find some dixieland guys, but I stop short of taking up banjo to play with them!

The way I was approaching a lot of this stuff though in that band, and probably better since, was to just play parts of the chords, let the bass do it's thing and the piano fill the rest. A lot of the time I had to play with the sax lines anyway in the head, or alternate sections.

So, on a tune like this, I'd isolate some of those chromatic movements in the harmony and try and get a good voice leading. The result might be along these lines for the first phrase on a first reading...

Am7-D7b5b9-GM7
...................same with G, etc.
--5--4--3-----3--2--1----------------
--5--4--3-fill--3--2--1-fill-----------------
--5--5--4-----3--3--2----------------
--5--4--4-----3--2--2----------------
-------------------------------
-------------------------------

I've always been attracted to those harmonized 4th sound anyway and would be trying to draw that out as a kind of counter melody (like a reed section I guess). Plus I quickly worked out that by playing like this it was easier to make the changes and keep out of everyone elses way...while looking cool and giving room for a few fills here and there!

This kind of thing made coming from where I was at (in my early 20's and still in a rock band at the time) a lot easier and left space for others. But it also demonstrated the similarities between chords (like between G6 and CM7 for example) and a melodic sense within progressions (looking for those inner lines).

The only time things got "messy" was when we had another guitar player, very old school jazz guy with a lot experience...but just too much guitar...generally I'd do the harder edged things though and sit out with the sax play trading lines instead of playing the changes...a lot of fun, but since then (about 1983) I've been hard pressed to find any guys that are interested in this kind of thing, let alone get a gig in it down here...oh well, I'm glad I did it though.

You certainly loose it though if you don't keep playing and listening to jazz for a while.

...

Oh yeah...thanks for the insights on how the song was written with the lyrics and arrangements in mind.

One reason I was interested is that I have been studying songwriting music books lately and was only reading about Prosody "marriage of music and lyric" the other day when this came up...this guy was suggesting that a "good song" musically should pass the test of emotionally carrying message even without the lyrics.

and Barney Kessel's version.


which album is that on?

Barney Kessell 'Plays for Lovers'.

I like the parallel between the delaying of the key, it's kind of drifting and turns and "other-worldliness" of the melody alluding to all that extended harmony, all the different motif elements...and the subject and mystery of the "story". I don't know if I have seen it, but I gather it is a who-done-it kind of thing where "the girl" (victim) is already dead and retracing her life up to the murder, the music perfectly kind of expresses that sensibility and the lyrics.


I wonder if David Lynch might have pinched a bit of storyline here -sounds somewhat "Twin Peaks" to me....

Both the film and the music are considered "important" in the development of modern cinema.
http://www.filmsite.org/laur.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_%281944_film%29
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/684855/Laura
http://www.answers.com/topic/laura-film-score (This site has it kinda backwards, but most people don't have the personal insight I was privy to.)
*In many academic film scoring texts Raksin and sometimes even 'Laura' get their own dedicated chapters. It was arguably the first time a 'pop' tune was written specifically for a movie (1944) after completion of the movie. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the tune is culled from themes within and throughout the score. And, whether or not it was really written in a weekend? ... I do know that it was written post everything else and at least in a hurry.

**All that being said. I, personally, don't really love the movie. I think it suffers from some editing problems.

I wonder if David Lynch might have pinched a bit of storyline here -sounds somewhat "Twin Peaks" to me....

And what about Sunset Boulevard? Doesn't that begin with William Holden (the writer) floating dead in the pool, and then the movie features flashbacks (sometimes him narrating) how he got there. Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up.

I am big ... it's the pictures that got small.

Well...there was a war on...

Well...it's a lovely song, and I really do hear it wafting through various "key centers" and the I is not really "revealed" till the very end. .


certainly---i mean, in practical application, that Am at the beginning is functioning as a ii in G. when you solo over that tune, that's the way you're gonna look at it--not as the vi of I (C)

I'll try that again..:oops:

And what about Sunset Boulevard? Doesn't that begin with William Holden (the writer) floating dead in the pool, and then the movie features flashbacks (sometimes him narrating) how he got there. Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up.

True - but both feature the murder of a girl called Laura - AND it was my lame attempt to find some serendipity with the "Wicked Game" thread.::rolleyes:

I missed anything WG...but I have been playing it today in a weekly jam today...still say Dorian Grey...but that's another thread!


Wasn't "sunset strip" based on a true story or something...not my era of course..I seem to remember the stage show down here the "ex-child star" lead OD'ed on drugs and the producer/lover died in a car accident...show must go on....art mirror's life, mirrors art, etc.

Kreisberg does Laura in G - starting on Em9 - to get the open strings I guess

no resolution to G at the end tho.


last A goes something like;

Em9 A13b9-b13| Ddim(add9)or (E7b9/D) D6| Dm9 G13b9-b13| Cmaj9 Fmaj9 Ebmaj9 Dbmaj9|
Cm9 Am D7b9| Gmaj9 Eminmaj7| Bbm Eb9 - and then phrased with the melody

Am9 G#m9 Gm9 F#m11| Fm13 Bb9||

the coda is a maj/min fest.

Em/maj9 D#m/maj9 Dm/maj9 C#m/maj9| Cmin/maj9||


nice.....:smile:

but B.K's version is in C and has the beautiful D13b9 D7b13b9 where everyone plays the Ebm7 Ab7 - which sounds more in keeping with the original changes to me..

so good.