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500k Volume pot and 250k tone pot?

cactusrob
August 26th, 2009, 02:26 PM
Will this work or will it cause some sort of time/space continuum or black hole to open up in the universe??

Are there drawbacks to this? Are there advantages? Has anybody ever done this?
I have a Di Marzio h/b designed for teles in the bridge postion and the stock s/c in the neck.

Bottom line, I'm trying to keep from re-soldering everything unless I have to...I need the 500k (I'm told) because the Di Marzio (a recent install) has a real mids/bass tone even with the tone knob on 10...:cry:

From everything I've resaerched and read, a 500k volume pot will allow more of the highs to come thru from the h/b, but do I need to replace both pots or just the volume?

Can someone steer me in the right direction? I'm semi-technical but not quite engineer level, so if you could explain it with some layman's terms, that would be cool.

Thanks

Lerb21
August 26th, 2009, 02:48 PM
All I know is that I put a 1 meg pot in the volume in my Tele and it sounds much clearer and twangier.

You'll just need to replace the volume pot, not the tone. (to my knowledge)

I'm no engineer either.

Stevie 202
August 26th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Well the thing is, how does it sound to you? We are "told" we "need" 500k for a 'bucker but a lot of the time it depends on the guitar, the player, the style and the rig.

For example: I have a standard Tele that I put an SD '59 in the neck.
I tried using all 500k, and different permutations of 500s and 250s. At the end of the day I preferred all 250's.
Why?
I'm a rock/blues player and I found the 500s too brittle. Lerb is a country picker so 500s and 1Ms might be better for his style/rig.

ALSO (don't mean to be condescending) you have tone controls on your amp too.

Cheers

cactusrob
August 26th, 2009, 05:55 PM
Thanks Lerb and Stevie for the input. I really appreciate it. Right now I'm using a Fender Pro Jr which has only volume and tone controls and I try to compensate with that as well and it sounds pretty good but it's not what I'm used to. It's kinda like you threw a blanket over the amp. I played two other guitars thru the amp the other day with no problems, so I know it's not the Jr. - It has to be the Tele (or at least the h/b)

Before the Jr, that I had a larger wattage Crate tube amp. It was really high gain and broke up early but it was the same thing. A real mid/bass tone to the guitar kinda like a blanket thrown over it.

The only solution I could find then was to incorporate a Super Overdrive, drive level down really low, adjusting the tone to a pleasing setting using the tone control on the pedal.

I'm just wondering if I need to change both pots out or if the 500K volume pot would do the trick on it's own.

Thank you again. I appreciate the advice 'cause I am by no means a tone expert.

tjk3052
August 26th, 2009, 07:25 PM
You can use different size pots, but they both end up contributing to the tone because they are wired in parallel. I just went through this with my tele when I put a P90 in the bridge. I replaced both pots with 500k ones and it made a small difference. Then I replaced the .047uF cap with a .022 one and that made a much bigger difference. I ended up even smaller then that, with a 5000pF cap and it is about perfect to me. Some people might say the neck pup is too bright this way, but those changes only affect the treble, it still has plenty of bass. To me it sounds more focused, and has a real 'spank' to it now.

By the way, I use a ring terminal over the pots' shaft to connect all the ground wires instead of soldering to the pots' cases.
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/ring_terminals_1_125_000.jpg
Makes the install much easier, IMO, and makes changing pots a breeze.

jrfrond
August 26th, 2009, 09:47 PM
There's no "Pot Police" (not to be confused with the DEA! :lol: ). You do NOT have to have the same value tone and volume pots. If your pickups are really glassy and you want to tame them, you can shift down in tone pot value. Of course, you can always back the tone down as well, but it all depends on your style and your ears. As a general rule, the most output and highs are obtained using 1Meg pots, but the volume pot might not "taper-down" correctly with that value, and you might have to switch to 500K. It doesn't hurt to experiment freely.

Staggered Mag
August 26th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Do what sounds right to you. You can use a 250K 500k or 1MEG. You can even mix them up for the volume and tone pots. In Tele's with a humbucker neck pickup I've used a 500K volume pot with a 250K tone pot.

cactusrob
August 27th, 2009, 02:50 PM
I appreciate all the input.

cactusrob
August 27th, 2009, 03:11 PM
Especially the idea about using the ring terminal....good idea!

superlightweigh
August 27th, 2009, 03:26 PM
I ordered a set of four pots from Guitar Fetish to use along with two Dream 180 pups and they came that way>> two 500's and two 250's for the tone, according to their diagram. I was kinda ticked because the order sat around for many months before I got around to looking at what all came in the box.

But I digress.

I wired it up according to the diagram, and I REALLY LIKE the way it sounds! I'm gonna leave it that way.

Stevie 202
August 27th, 2009, 05:46 PM
Especially the idea about using the ring terminal....good idea!

With that in mind, go ahead and experiment! That's really the only way to find out.

Cheers

chabby
August 29th, 2009, 12:27 PM
You want spank and bite with a 250K volume pot? Try a 100PF/500V Silver Mica cap on the volume side....pure Bakersfield bass bite. I just tried this new mod called the "Park Mod" on my esquire. All it is is the Eldred mod but specifically using a 100PF silver mica cap on the volume pot. I was almost in tears now having the epitamy of what the tele is all about for me. God I can't wait to bring this to the stage!

boris bubbanov
August 29th, 2009, 04:52 PM
By the way, I use a ring terminal over the pots' shaft to connect all the ground wires instead of soldering to the pots' cases.
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/ring_terminals_1_125_000.jpg
Makes the install much easier, IMO, and makes changing pots a breeze.

Wow, what a cool idea! I've been having fits with the stupid no lead solder - the pots just don't like it!


+++++++

I have a couple guitars with 500K tone pots and 250K volume pots.

I just deleted a section on why that works for me, because it is undercooked.I'll get back to ya'll.

tjk3052
August 29th, 2009, 08:31 PM
I just went through this with my tele when I put a P90 in the bridge. I replaced both pots with 500k ones and it made a small difference. Then I replaced the .047uF cap with a .022 one and that made a much bigger difference.

I gotta correct myself...It was the larger pots, not the smaller cap that made the big difference in tone. When the tone and the volume are all the way up, it didn't make much of a difference what cap value I had. The cap value will make a big difference, however, once you start turning the tone down.

tjk3052
August 29th, 2009, 08:32 PM
You want spank and bite with a 250K volume pot? Try a 100PF/500V Silver Mica cap on the volume side....pure Bakersfield bass bite. I just tried this new mod called the "Park Mod" on my esquire. All it is is the Eldred mod but specifically using a 100PF silver mica cap on the volume pot. I was almost in tears now having the epitamy of what the tele is all about for me. God I can't wait to bring this to the stage!

Any clips?

chabby
August 30th, 2009, 01:26 AM
I wish...I had to sell all my gear after a bout of unemployment. But I wish someone would try it so they could echo my experience. I described it pretty well, but to take it a step further listen to the opening intro to Gretchen Wilsons "Here for the party" it's like that. Or almost all of Pete Andersons tone on Pocket of a clown, 1000 Miles, Fast as you and did ZZ top real good too such as "Heard it on the X, La Grange. You can roll off the tone knob a bit when you need to. But it's bright but without being tinny or thin.
I'd call it very punchy and balanced. You can roll off the tone knob (I have 250K/250K) and get different tones all through its band. Very sensitive tone control this way in that rolling of a little goes a long way...but not too long...it's perfect! If your amp rig is set up right it's perfect. I'm playing through a 2 6L6 Bassman currently.

cactusrob
August 31st, 2009, 10:47 AM
So where can a fella get one of those caps? (the 100PF/500V Silver Mica, that is) :cool:

vinman
August 31st, 2009, 11:40 AM
hopefully you have a local electronics place near you other than radio shack because they don't carry it.
good news - bad news
good news, tube depot has them for 30 cents.
bad news 4 dollars shipping. they are the cheapest I have found on shipping parts, however. (it's 4 dollars no matter how many parts you order)

chabby
September 1st, 2009, 12:16 AM
The Tube Depot is exactly where I bought mine!!
I totally lucked into even trying them as I had originally ordered about 10 or 12 of them for amp work. I wasn't happy with the cap tone I was getting with what I had installed when I esquired with the Eldred mod, so I just thought 100PF/500V silver micas...why not? It's what we always use on amps for bright caps....so I just tried it and I was floored.

fernando
September 17th, 2009, 01:22 PM
chabby, you mean a 100pF bleed cap on the volume pot?

Hollmanp90
September 17th, 2009, 01:32 PM
chabby, you mean a 100pF bleed cap on the volume pot?

Same question here too.

Swiftpicx
September 19th, 2009, 12:06 AM
tagging along here

sbolt
September 19th, 2009, 08:33 PM
By the way, I use a ring terminal over the pots' shaft to connect all the ground wires instead of soldering to the pots' cases.
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/ring_terminals_1_125_000.jpg
Makes the install much easier, IMO, and makes changing pots a breeze.

That's a great idea.. What size is it and where did you order it from?

thanks

tjk3052
September 19th, 2009, 10:47 PM
I found ones that fit at an Ace Hardware. Radio Shack didn't have big enough ones (remind me what the point of Radio Shack is?!).

Size I used is 5/16" - 3/8" Stud, Insulated Ring Terminal 12-10 AWG. Just pull the insulation off and crimp the wires before soldering.

I think you could find some at any hardware store.

boris bubbanov
September 20th, 2009, 10:39 AM
(remind me what the point of Radio Shack is?!).




I hear that.

More throwaway Chinese garbage every day.

One of the fun things about Radio Shack of yore was, the staff could explain how the items they sold work. They may've torn down and rebuilt half the products they sold, just to see what makes them tick.

Not anymore.

sbolt
September 20th, 2009, 02:16 PM
Yeah, I'm glad I asked. Radio Shack never seems to have what I need. Thanks

tjk3052
September 20th, 2009, 11:03 PM
One of the fun things about Radio Shack of yore was, the staff could explain how the items they sold work. They may've torn down and rebuilt half the products they sold, just to see what makes them tick.

Not anymore.
Here's a true Radio Shack story...

Last time I was there I was trying to figure out a capacitor value from picofarad to microfarads. I asked the clerk who was hovering over me if what I came up with was right and he said "I'm not sure, I only know resistors". THEN, I saw some kid stuff a big roll of speaker cable down his pants, and to make sure the clerk saw, I pointed him out. He let the kid walk right out the store without saying a word and then told me "it wasn't worth stopping him". Sadly, I paid for my capacitors.

chrism8922
September 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM
I like that ring terminal idea - I went to True Value and got a pack for my Gretsch project (I may have fried a pot when I went to a 1 meg...). Do you just solder the wires into it, and mount it at the base of the shaft?

jtpal25
September 23rd, 2009, 04:24 PM
radio shack is the worst. i have several negative stories, but my favorite--when i was in high school and first starting to repair and toy with my own guitar projects, i bought a soldering iron from them--radio shack brand, made in china. while i was soldering it caught on fire in my hands.

tjk3052
September 24th, 2009, 02:20 AM
I like that ring terminal idea - I went to True Value and got a pack for my Gretsch project (I may have fried a pot when I went to a 1 meg...). Do you just solder the wires into it, and mount it at the base of the shaft?
Yep, just cram the wires in there, crimp it, and solder. The solder should kind of wick up a bit. Then just put it over the shaft. That will connect it to the case and the control plate as well. I then tighten a nut over the ring before mouting the pot, but I suppose thats not necessary.