Why Is Church Music Sooo Bad?

I remember that CS Lewis once said that he disliked church hymns in general saying that most of it was something like 5th rate poetry set to 6th rate music. Of course he died in the early 60s and didn't get a chance to see how much worse it would get with the so-called contemporary stuff (which is almost never contemporary). The old hymns are looking much better these days.

I don't understand how it got to be this bad. I was a child of the Jesus Movement and recall some good "new" hymns in the midst of that, but they never made their way into the church. The more life they try to put into the music nowadays the more lifeless it becomes.

I found a great old Edison cylinder recording of "The Church in the Wildwood" a couple of years ago that dates to the mid 1920s. I hadn't heard that song since I was a kid. It almost seems like a breath of fresh air now.

Okay, just venting. Back to your regularly scheduled show.

Find some better music... :cool:

oNK7Ib84788

I remember that CS Lewis once said that he disliked church hymns in general saying that most of it was something like 5th rate poetry set to 6th rate music. Of course he died in the early 60s and didn't get a chance to see how much worse it would get with the so-called contemporary stuff (which is almost never contemporary). The old hymns are looking much better these days.

I don't understand how it got to be this bad. I was a child of the Jesus Movement and recall some good "new" hymns in the midst of that, but they never made their way into the church. The more life they try to put into the music nowadays the more lifeless it becomes.

I found a great old Edison cylinder recording of "The Church in the Wildwood" a couple of years ago that dates to the mid 1920s. I hadn't heard that song since I was a kid. It almost seems like a breath of fresh air now.

Okay, just venting. Back to your regularly scheduled show.

So other than "church in the wildwood" (which isn't really a worship song, but rather a lifestyle song) what do do think are good church songs? That would help me formulate an answer your question.

So other than "church in the wildwood" (which isn't really a worship song, but rather a lifestyle song) what do do think are good church songs? That would help me formulate an answer your question.

+1. A bit confused with the OP.

... with largely Christian overtones, it's worth revisiting the rules of this section:

Worship Service Players Religious service players discussion forum. Open to all religions. No religious theology discussion, just guitar & playing performance discussion.

:neutral: Peter

It doesn't have to go to theologyville, Pete.

Back in the '70s you had lots of new music coming out of the Jesus Movement and fairly large non-denominational movements like Calvary Chapel and the Vineyard that embraced what has come to be known as contemporary worship music. I've been playing and enjoying that genre for over 25 years. That said, I grew up in the church singing traditional hymns, some of which I love dearly and wish folks didn't seem to think they need "remixed".

In many ways, church music in the west has gotten better, IMHO, over the last few decades. My fear is that it's gotten too popular and commercialized with large amounts of radio play, and that worship teams become little more than worship top 40 cover bands.

The music that came out of the Calvary Chapel and Vineyard movements usually reflected what was going on in the author's life when he/she wrote it. Perhaps here too we would be best served returning to our roots rather than trying to craft the next U2 clone song that will get strong radio play.

Considering what's happened to contemporary pop music, why should contemporary praise music be any different?

Just sayin'...

Tim

I really don't care for music in church at all and generally will not arrive for church until that portion of the service is over with. I think it just tends to place people in a overly sentimental state of mind at a time when they should be more sober. There are a small handful of hymns I like though. I attended Chuck Swindoll's church a few times in CA back in the early 90s and they just played a couple of Bach instrumental pieces that I thought worked very well. I do enjoy some of Bach's lyric pieces too though such as Sheep May Safely Graze. The very first so-called praise and or worship album I ever saw was Ted Sanquist's Courts of the King and it's still the only one that hasn't made me want to burn it. I remember helping out a pastor friend of mine with his music service for a few months in 1993, and he gave me a stack of Vinyard CDs to listen too. I was appalled at how bad they were. They had no heart whatsoever. And that's my biggest complaint about church music today--it has no heart. I recall Keith Green saying just before he died that he thought Christian Music in general was heading for a very bad time when a lot of people would just be in it for the money and the Spirit would just flee the scene. He couldn't have been more right.

Huh?

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Yuck... the clips posted so far in this thread have made my point better than I ever could.

My time here is through. My vacation is over, and I have to get back to work, so this'll be my last comment.

You Sir, have a problem.
Who has no heart?
This will be my last comment!

Yuck... the clips posted so far in this thread have made my point better than I ever could.

My time here is through. My vacation is over, and I have to get back to work, so this'll be my last comment.

I usually stay out of these types of conversations but there is a dynamic going on that I want to offer comment on. All music is spiritual, pro or con it is all subjective, and while there are many valid criticisims to be made nothing has been offered as to what is "good" church music if there is any. Opinions are just that, what blesses one irritates another eh?? Seems like when it comes to music everyone has an axe to grind in one genre or another,,, been there done that, lets move on shall we?

well....
IMHO, I don't agree with any of ya. I think how good the music sounds depends on who is playing and who is leading. If you have a worship leader who likes electric guitar and uses it alot, we might like it. If a worship leader likes pianos and uses them alot, we might not like it. So it is really subject and relative. What do you call "good in music" because I am almost positive that there is good stuff out there. My dad has been a worship leader for 15 years at least and we have taken time to develope and learn about some "band dynamics" and it has helped our 3 person worship team a lot.

A subject that is near and dear to my heart. I wish I had an answer. There are many good examples of good music in church, but on the average it all seems to fall short on Sundays. As a worship player and worshipper I often feel less than impressed or refreshed. I find keeping time to myself to 'devotions' and practice keeps me from getting too dry or cynical about what happens during church. As a player it is my job to support what is going on around me. As a leader I lead well. As a worshipper I try to block out the din and focus on what's important. That's my two bits. Good luck.

BTW - I play both guitar and piano in church and when I do it's quite a boost to the service. I agree with the previous poster, the players make a big difference. Some just play the notes and others, myself included, are very enthusiastic about it.

Umm.... I was going to post something but never mind.

Here's my favorite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Km-fW3Z3og&feature=fvw

Yuck... the clips posted so far in this thread have made my point better than I ever could.


You're right about that but i think it says more about you than the music... :smile:

It's a lot of different things.

First, there's bad lyrics. A lot of my friends tell me that it's just the words that matter, but 99% of the time, the words just suck. It's one thing to say Jesus or God or whatever deity is great, but when you have a thousand songs that say that same statement...by golly, it's going to get a little old. Now, if you have songs that tell stories about various people who have experienced something, you get some more meaningful lyrics.

Second is the music. The music itself is poorly composed. You have the same chord changes over and over. It's mostly I-IV-V chords with the occasional VI thrown in.

Third are the musicians. Often the most talented musician is going to be the pianist. The guitarists are terrible. I've seen situations where there have been three guitarists on a stage, and all three of them were playing open chords. It was unnecessary clutter. I've known so-called performers of spiritual music who have no idea how to make bar chords on the A string. Often they'll be so bad that they won't have the ability to transition from a C chord to a G chord and vice versa. Instead they'll play a Cadd9. And then the other big trick they're fond of is a D to Dsus2 to a Dsus4.

It's a lot of different things.

First, there's bad lyrics. A lot of my friends tell me that it's just the words that matter, but 99% of the time, the words just suck. It's one thing to say Jesus or God or whatever deity is great, but when you have a thousand songs that say that same statement...by golly, it's going to get a little old. Now, if you have songs that tell stories about various people who have experienced something, you get some more meaningful lyrics.

Second is the music. The music itself is poorly composed. You have the same chord changes over and over. It's mostly I-IV-V chords with the occasional VI thrown in.

Third are the musicians. Often the most talented musician is going to be the pianist. The guitarists are terrible. I've seen situations where there have been three guitarists on a stage, and all three of them were playing open chords. It was unnecessary clutter. I've known so-called performers of spiritual music who have no idea how to make bar chords on the A string. Often they'll be so bad that they won't have the ability to transition from a C chord to a G chord and vice versa. Instead they'll play a Cadd9. And then the other big trick they're fond of is a D to Dsus2 to a Dsus4.

Not at our church. We have a bunch of quality musicians, good guitarists and we do anything but I,IV,V songs. If church musicians lack talent, then the music leaders are not following the scriptural admonition to play skillfully. Those people should not be leading worship.

Not at our church. We have a bunch of quality musicians, good guitarists and we do anything but I,IV,V songs. If church musicians lack talent, then the music leaders are not following the scriptural admonition to play skillfully. Those people should not be leading worship.

Then I reckon your church is among the few performing good worship music. I've had the displeasure of working with some very bad guitarists and some very bad songs.

I hear you, but it's not everywhere. Many people come to our church because of the music. It's all upbeat and contemporary, so if that isn't your cup of tea, ymmv. And we don't let just anyone that wants to play join us, there is an audition process. We feel what we do is a ministry, we take it seriously and make sure anyone that does play can hold there own, and I don't just mean know a handful of chords. We are currently suffering a lack of musicians as people have left, currently it's me (guitar) and drums, and some singers. And I won't take someone just to fill a role, I'll do it all myself until God sends the right person along, if needed. I guess I am getting offtrack a bit, but not every church has bad music, and it of course depends on what you consider good/bad.

We also don't have an organist or a piano player. We don't even have a keyboard in our church.

Probably because the Devil makes Good music for Bad people.

I seem to see two different questions here and I'm not sure which the OP intended but I think it's the first.

1) Why is contemporary christian music composition so bad?
2) Why are musicicians in churches that play above mentioned music so bad?

The answer to #2 is simple, the world if full of people with varying musical abilities that play/perform in all settings, and I am one of them. I have a couple adult garage bands and we play parties or friendly affairs. My guess is we pretty much suck compared to most of the performers on TDPRI. So the same question and answer to #2 is the same everywhere; Why are there so many party bands that suck? For the same reason there are so many softball players, golfers, bowlers, quilters, painters, ... that suck. We enjoy an activity for many reasons even though we're just not that good. And some of us belong to churches and sometimes we're the best/only musicians that chruch has.

Question #1 seems no different than any other genre fill in the blank; Why is _________ (country, metal, rap, rock, pop, hip hop,...) so bad? So all of the christian music composed/recorded/sold today is "so bad"? Kind of a general statement. I listen to and like a lot of christian rock/folk music. Is the topic always the same in christian music? Well duh, the topic is what makes it christian music. Highway To Hell is not a christian song, not because of the chord structure or style of guitar playing, but because of the topic.

A subject that is near and dear to my heart. I wish I had an answer. There are many good examples of good music in church, but on the average it all seems to fall short on Sundays. As a worship player and worshipper I often feel less than impressed or refreshed. I find keeping time to myself to 'devotions' and practice keeps me from getting too dry or cynical about what happens during church. As a player it is my job to support what is going on around me. As a leader I lead well. As a worshipper I try to block out the din and focus on what's important. That's my two bits. Good luck.

BTW - I play both guitar and piano in church and when I do it's quite a boost to the service. I agree with the previous poster, the players make a big difference. Some just play the notes and others, myself included, are very enthusiastic about it.

I consider myself very lucky. Our leader picks good material. Creates great arrangements. We have a wonderful bunch of people up front and in the seats and we are worshipping. And they let me be a part of it. Yeah, I guess I have a lot to be thankful for...

It's simple----------it wasn't enough for P&W music to be relevant,it now has to be "hip".

You could plug a washboard into Marshall head and 4x12. As long as your getting closer to the Lord and giving HIM the praise then I do really believe its all good.......but you all can judge it however ya want.

You could plug a washboard into Marshall head and 4x12. As long as your getting closer to the Lord and giving HIM the praise then I do really believe its all good.......but you all can judge it however ya want.

Do I detect a hint of prejudice? :smile:

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/danalavigne/DanaRubboard.jpg

Exhistential question would be, if it's that bad, then what are you going to do to change it?

...

I consider myself very lucky. Our leader picks good material. Creates great arrangements. We have a wonderful bunch of people up front and in the seats and we are worshipping. And they let me be a part of it. Yeah, I guess I have a lot to be thankful for...

+1. Couldn't agree with you more.

I don't listen to church music, but I think I can answer the question anyway... There's no money in it! It takes a lot of talent to write great songs (more than I have), and the most talented songwriters are probably not writing church music.

I seem to see two different questions here and I'm not sure which the OP intended but I think it's the first.

1) Why is contemporary christian music composition so bad?
2) Why are musicicians in churches that play above mentioned music so bad?

The answer to #2 is simple, the world if full of people with varying musical abilities that play/perform in all settings, and I am one of them. I have a couple adult garage bands and we play parties or friendly affairs. My guess is we pretty much suck compared to most of the performers on TDPRI. So the same question and answer to #2 is the same everywhere; Why are there so many party bands that suck? For the same reason there are so many softball players, golfers, bowlers, quilters, painters, ... that suck. We enjoy an activity for many reasons even though we're just not that good. And some of us belong to churches and sometimes we're the best/only musicians that chruch has.

Question #1 seems no different than any other genre fill in the blank; Why is _________ (country, metal, rap, rock, pop, hip hop,...) so bad? So all of the christian music composed/recorded/sold today is "so bad"? Kind of a general statement. I listen to and like a lot of christian rock/folk music. Is the topic always the same in christian music? Well duh, the topic is what makes it christian music. Highway To Hell is not a christian song, not because of the chord structure or style of guitar playing, but because of the topic.

Very well said! You don't have to be good to participate in our rehearsals and maybe get to be in a service when you get the hang of it. You don't have to be great to be on the team and be a part of the morning services. We do ask that you wish to offer your talent and presence as an offering to the God we believe created the universe and asks His people to gather, worship, and learn to grow closer. We usually get compliments on the music and the service in general but we know in the grand scheme of things we aren't that great... Peace

I think the more important question is exactly what hayseedtele said. I've been playing in church for about 13 years. From the time I was just learing until now when I think I'm playing at least well enough that people want to hear me play. I've played a lot more bad music than I have good, and I've gone through several phases of emulating other players and it always seeped into my church playing. Thats what I did to make it more pleasurable for me.

It's like this, if you really dig Roy Buchannan (for example sake) then start learning some roy. If your lucky enough to have a gig in a church, when you get a chance to play put as much roy in as you can. Most people sitting in the crowd will respond to the passion you play with, and if your playing licks you love the passion will just happen. That's one option.

Another is start actively producing music you think is good and see where you can fit it in. If you write lyrics, write some lyrics. Some good lyrics. If you don't (like me) then start writing music. There are several times at my church when they just want something playing. It doesn't matter what, just some nice soft background music. If your into jazz, here's your chance to jazz it up. Country? Steel bend central. Rock/blues? Throw down a gospel flavored slow blues jam. You probably can't blare the ts-9 but some tasty clean "lenny" playing will really do wonders for your ego and some folks will really dig it. If you don't write, try to help out with arrangements.

Something I've figured out over time is you can not please all the people any of the time. There's always going to be someone writing the most wonderful compliment about the music, and two rows back someone can't wait for you to put down you guitar and get off the stage.

Church is, unfortunatly, the first and last place a lot of new players have the experience of playing on stage. If your overly nice and let little johnny plug up that marshall stack mom got him for x-mas because he is so good at guitar hero, you and the congregation will be sorry. If you say no, mom will probably start looking for a new church the next week and tell everyone she knows what a bunch of stuck up jerks go to your church. If you let them practice with you they think they're part of the band and they always get their feelings hurt when they show up sunday morning with their gear and you turn them away. It's an all around bad situation.

Church gigs are hard. Most of the time not technically but socially. People don't pay for tickets like they do for a concert. Most of the time people don't choose a church based on the style of music being played. It's got more to do with the location, pastor, friends who attend, or family history that holds them where they've been for years. A lot of time you don't get the choice of going to the metal church, or the country church, or the jazz church etc. It would be way cooler with a lot more musically satisfied people if it did but that's just not the case. It's not cool to say somethings bad unless your in the trenches trying to improve on it. Chances are, if you get in there and play, you'll find something about it you enjoy. If your convictions have led you to a religon and music is part of that experience, shouldn't you do everything you can to improve it for you and the other members of said religon? However, if your not confident in your own playing, and aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn the "bad" tunes and work with other players who might enjoy playing the tunes, maybe it's time to start practicing or working on the social skills. Just saying...

Killingjoke hit this one on the head.

Too many Christians trying to be musicians and not the other way round.

Guys, this thread is a huge troll. The OP announced he has to return the underside of the bridge. I think we should let him return to his other world.

Otherwise, some really unnecessary and unkind things will erupt in this thread...

thread closed.