Brent Mason Mod

Sorry if this question offends anyone, honest. But here goes...

Does anyone known the details on the BD-2 Brent Mason mod?

For whatever reason Brian Wampler has released at least two different versions on the Net. Both incomplete. Through vigorous detective work, I've managed to locate the correct values for all but four components. Namely C7, C27, C34 and C35.

Why he wants to hold back I understand, I think. The problem is, that without listing more of the changes, the mod sounds like ASS. and I've read this opinion time and again on music\guitar forums. So he's only shooting himself in the foot it would seem. As I've gotten more of the component values figured out, it has made for a better sounding BD-2. I'm wondering what it would sound like once I get it completed.

If this post rubs anyone the wrong way, I'll delete it. Maybe I've spent too much time a the Freestompboxes forums.

Thanks.

BD-2 mods seem to be the stuff that can stir the pot, aren't they?

C27 and R35 are a critical point in the BD-2 circuit that a lot of modders seem to miss on. While it's possible to just alter C27, R35 should also be considered. I have some values that work for me, but probably wouldn't be so great for the Wampler stuff.

As for C34 and C35, the modified values once again are dependent on R38 and R50, and to some extent R51 as well.

I also think that guys like Wampler are probably holding back on mods for pedals like the BD-2 possibly because they now have their own signature pedals that use discrete jfet gain stages, and they'd probably prefer to switch the attention (and the sales) to them. A lot of the pedal guys seem to have "cascaded mu amp fever" as the result of the success of the Dirty Little Secret.

You can really get some fantastic tones out of the BD-2 IMO by reducing the gain throughout, so that you can pull the clipping diodes (as well as the pre op amp clamps), and get something that sounds like it has much more character. The problem becomes that you have a modded mass produced pedal that could hamper sales of your own design.

I know that Brian has a boatload of designs that are supposed to emulate all sorts of amps (I think he just added one for a Boogie Rectifier'ish pedal?), and I'd imagine that most would be jfet based designs.

There is an article on the BD2 by Mr. Wampler in the Nov. '08 issue of Premier Guitar. Specs for the Brent Mason mod and the Tweed mod are included.

CousinPaul,

Yes, but incomplete. That's where I began. Notice that the PG mod lacks C7, C8, C9, C10, C27, C34 and C35. As 11Guage mentioned some of those are critical.

11Guage,

GREAT INFO! If you ever have the time, and wouldn't mind, could you please elaborate on the BD-2 info you've posted above?

Do you have any mods that you wouldn't mind posting?

Thanks!

PS: Based on your previous posts (particularly the SD-1 to OCD threads) and the fact that you don't seem to get sucked into trends in pedal design and building, I think you could make a big splash if you ever decided to produce your own line of pedals. Think about it.

Sorry Reverend, I think you've got me confused with someone else. While I do take an interest in pedal mods, I'm not a designer or builder. I just remembered the article when I read your post. Hope you find the info you need... cousinpaul

I think you could make a big splash if you ever decided to produce your own line of pedals. Think about it.

The splash is getting bigger by the day, but I can't discuss it here!

For that reason, I don't like to give the nitty gritty on what I personally do with pedals like the BD-2, but I'm not opposed to throwing out bread crumbs, and there are bits and pieces all over the net, anyways.

Here are some important parts of the BD-2 circuit, IMO:

- R31/C22 are the HP filtering of the 1st gain stage, just like any op amp based pedal. And obviously gain can be adjusted at that point as well.

- R34/C24 are the same as above, for the 2nd gain stage

- R32 and R25 are part of the "slew rate limiting" circuitry for the 1st and 2nd gain stage. Oftentimes, modders do nothing at these points, or at least don't consider them. They may fiddle with C21 and C20, but the two resistors give you finer control, IMO.

- R35 was mentioned in a prior instance. It sets the input impedance for the 2nd gain stage. Note it's value compared to the 1st gain stage.

- I personally don't care for the "fixed Fender tone stack" circuitry in stock form. It's great in amps (although that's also debatable). If you want some subtle changes, R38 and R50 seem to be the ones to futz with. I actually take the whole thing out and put in something more akin to a twin T, bridged T, or variation on it. It requires some extreme creativity (as well as computing what's going to happen), but seems to yield better tones, at least IMO.

It's amazing how much you can change the behavior of the BD-2 simply with resistor changes alone, yet most modders get hung up on caps, as well as the op amp type at the end of the circuit. They tend to ignore the slew rate limiting, put a ton of emphasis on the threshold or asymm vs. symm clipping of D7-D10, and even fiddle around with D1 and/or D3, when those two are primarily input clamps. And folks constantly complain that the pedal is too bright or fuzzy, and that the stock tone control doesn't do much (okay, it really doesn't). But they never seem to address dropping the amount of gain, which makes the pedal much more friendly and round, IMO.

11G,

Everything you've written as far as the focus on caps, ignoring resistors etc, makes me think that many, if not most of these guys really DO NOT understand what they are doing. I have been considering getting two of Brian Wampler's books to try to further my electronic self-education. Now I'm thinking that would not be a very good use of my limited funds. He, like Keely, Allum etc, focuses heavily on caps (although to his credit he does do some intersting resistor changes in some of his mods) but the fact that he appears to miss some salient points in the BD-2 makes me think he doesn't know enough to see the bigger picture.

Sorry, nothing personal against the guy, he seems nice enough. This is really just the result of the fact that 1) he's very popular lately due to heavy self-promotion 2) I've tried more of his mods than anyone else's and 3) he sells "How-To" books unlike Keely et al.

Sorry, nothing personal against the guy, he seems nice enough. This is really just the result of the fact that 1) he's very popular lately due to heavy self-promotion 2) I've tried more of his mods than anyone else's and 3) he sells "How-To" books unlike Keely et al.

All of these guys have to walk a fine line - a really fine line. They have to promise improved tones, but they have to do it in a way that's either simplified for the average person, or simplified/streamlined/etc. so that they make a profit. And it helps for it to have some sex appeal, some groovy advertising, and name dropping is usually involved, as well. How many successful pedals can you name that don't have a famous name at least partly associated with them?

Brian is a great guy, and he does understand things well. But we all can't know everything. I remember being on the Boss Area Forum some months ago, where some of us were discussing the updated methods of nixing the bypass bleed fix issue in the SD-1. By this point, someone had offered Analogman a better method, Keeley and one of his employees had a better method, and myself and a fella named "ccstim" converged on one as well. Brian added his .02, which was the same old "tack a j201 with a mess of wires" fix - he didn't even pause (apparently) to read that we were in the midst of something improved/updated!

Replacing resistors simply has no sex appeal. Ditto for ceramic caps - everyone's in love with silver micas. And everyone wants their pedal to sound like a tube amp, or a tweed amp, or a cranked plexi, or AC30, Supro, Dumble, etc.

I can't fault Brian or the rest of them. I know they are all having fun (I hope), but it's about making money first and foremost. That's why Wampler is doing the heavy rotation of promoting his wares. I certainly admire his ambition and drive - I thought I was crazy for cranking out new ideas, mods, and pedals all of the time. At least it's nice to have some company that does the same!

Okay, I really ought to be careful here. I have no desire to malign Wampler. The real problem here is ME. I'm so frustrated by the hype, advertising, and in some cases, snake-oil that is the pedal mod market\industry. Wampler is the best of the bunch all around for a variety of reason. His honesty, his customer support and a few other reasons.

But in the final analysis, I think the decent thing for these people to do is 1) if you're going to publish a mod publicly, publish the ENTIRE mod. This BS of trying to appear to be giving something for free just seems like an insult more than anything. Wampler does give away a lot for free, so I have to cut him some slack. Keeley on the other hand, well, never mind. And 2) get reasonable with these prices. Again I'll give Brian credit for being AFFORDABLE. Monte Allums should be strung up for charging what he does considering, what's involved, coupled with the actual sound. I've never been so disappointed with the sound of pedal mods as I have been his.

Of course, these are largely my opinions.

But resistors have no sex appeal? Oh man, everything about pedal building and modding has tremendous appeal for me. So I just don't get that at all.
Resistors, diodes, capacitors, etc all are very exciting to me. Partly because I don't understand them well yet, and because of the possibilities they represent.

It's like magic

But resistors have no sex appeal? Oh man, everything about pedal building and modding has tremendous appeal for me. So I just don't get that at all.
Resistors, diodes, capacitors, etc all are very exciting to me. Partly because I don't understand them well yet, and because of the possibilities they represent.

It's like magic

Folks like you and I are a little more uncommon, I'm afraid.

I guess I should elaborate on the resistor thing. Simply changing the value of a resistor to change gain or alter filtering doesn't really seem to excite anyone. You can keep the value the same and replace it with a carbon comp, and folks start getting excited - thinking that you're infusing some sort of vibe from days long past. You can keep the value the same and replace it with a metal film, and folks start getting excited - thinking that you're infusing some sort of "precise string definition and the ultimate in transparency," to sort of paraphrase...:twisted:

It's enough to keep one busy just dealing with the R/C interaction. I think your curiosity is an excellent thing. Use it to fuel your projects, instead of the need to get a complete mod from someone. Do your own thing, brother.

BD-2 mods seem to be the stuff that can stir the pot, aren't they?

C27 and R35 are a critical point in the BD-2 circuit that a lot of modders seem to miss on. While it's possible to just alter C27, R35 should also be considered. I have some values that work for me, but probably wouldn't be so great for the Wampler stuff.

As for C34 and C35, the modified values once again are dependent on R38 and R50, and to some extent R51 as well.

I also think that guys like Wampler are probably holding back on mods for pedals like the BD-2 possibly because they now have their own signature pedals that use discrete jfet gain stages, and they'd probably prefer to switch the attention (and the sales) to them. A lot of the pedal guys seem to have "cascaded mu amp fever" as the result of the success of the Dirty Little Secret.

It's a double edged sword... I want to help people, but selling DIY books, mods, etc is very time intensive - many of the customers that buy them don't know how to solder, so there is ALOT of hand holding to get them up to speed. Even then, there are tons and tons of emails to answer... all kinds of questions. As a matter of fact, I have 1000 emails in my inbox waiting for an answer and I simply just can't get to them all. There isn't enough time in the day. The only way I can get my ideas out there and still have some sort of business is to not offer email support. I refer them to the forum, and I pay someone to answer technical questions on the forum. So in that respect, I operate the DIY side at a financial loss. I still do it, though because it's a hobby as well as a business - I love it!

However, I can guarantee that the DLS circuit didn't inspire too many builders - the mu-amp has been around forever. If anything, Doug Hammond or Ed (bsiab guy) inspired us... of course the usual jack orman, RG Keen, etc... Aron from diystompboxes... those guys are the pioneers in my opinion...


You can really get some fantastic tones out of the BD-2 IMO by reducing the gain throughout, so that you can pull the clipping diodes (as well as the pre op amp clamps), and get something that sounds like it has much more character.

yes, all possible - however, the most common questions I get are how to increase "gain" without getting buzzy - and with that circuit you are going to have buzz as you increase clipping... keep in mind that while many say "gain" they really mean "clipping" The zvex sho is a high gain pedal, but not a whole lot of clipping...

The problem becomes that you have a modded mass produced pedal that could hamper sales of your own design.
yes and no... there are definitely different categories of customers. Those who would rather build their own effects, and those who don't want to touch a soldering iron, and different levels in between.

I know that Brian has a boatload of designs that are supposed to emulate all sorts of amps (I think he just added one for a Boogie Rectifier'ish pedal?), and I'd imagine that most would be jfet based designs.
no, not all are jfet based - that's too boring and been done to death. I like to create something at least half way more original. The triple recstortion, for example is all multiple opamps. pinnacle = mu-amp with multiple single jfets. I explain the circuits in more detail on freestompboxes forum.

If there's one thing I've learned... there is a huge difference between best designed effect, best sounding effect, and best SELLING effect. Different builders focus more on one or the other generally. Trying to do the best you can in all 3 areas is very tricky, and is a very very fine line to walk.

Brian Wampler (wampler pedals/ IndyG)

Okay, I really ought to be careful here. I have no desire to malign Wampler. The real problem here is ME. I'm so frustrated by the hype, advertising, and in some cases, snake-oil that is the pedal mod market\industry. Wampler is the best of the bunch all around for a variety of reason. His honesty, his customer support and a few other reasons.

But in the final analysis, I think the decent thing for these people to do is 1) if you're going to publish a mod publicly, publish the ENTIRE mod. This BS of trying to appear to be giving something for free just seems like an insult more than anything. Wampler does give away a lot for free, so I have to cut him some slack. Keeley on the other hand, well, never mind. And 2) get reasonable with these prices. Again I'll give Brian credit for being AFFORDABLE. Monte Allums should be strung up for charging what he does considering, what's involved, coupled with the actual sound. I've never been so disappointed with the sound of pedal mods as I have been his.

Of course, these are largely my opinions.

But resistors have no sex appeal? Oh man, everything about pedal building and modding has tremendous appeal for me. So I just don't get that at all.
Resistors, diodes, capacitors, etc all are very exciting to me. Partly because I don't understand them well yet, and because of the possibilities they represent.

It's like magic

I see where you are coming from... Monte is a great guy, but he is running a business, as we really all are. As a business you have no make enough profit to keep things going. I know he isn't getting rich, but I also know that his prices are higher on some things because of all the time that goes into it...

I didn't see the problems with the bd-2 article until it was too late... at this point the only thing I can do is do better. I posted the bd-2 mods on freestompboxes I believe - or diystompboxes, I don't recall now.

Brian

Brian, I purchased your Brent Mason mod a few years ago for a BD-2 I modded for a friend. His band has recorded a few CDs, and he uses it extensively in the studio, as well as playing live. I can't remember the exact mod, but I remember changing one thing from your mod to make it more to his taste.

So kudos to you, and keep up the great work!

oh yeah, the band is called Western Aerial http://www.myspace.com/westernaerial. They have a few clips up there that feature the modded BD-2.

I posted the bd-2 mods on freestompboxes I believe - or diystompboxes, I don't recall now.

Right, I've seen it. It's the incomplete or partial version.

I do not fault you for wanting to make a profit from your own
designs, and the effort you put into them. I just get irritated by seeing these 'free' mods only to find out they are incomplete.

For what it's worth, I've seen this frustration expressed by other. It has come up in several different places and it's always about your BD-2 Mason mod and Keeley's SEM\Ultra for the DS-1

I resign myself to just buying the mod kit now that they are available.

Right, I've seen it. It's the incomplete or partial version.

I do not fault you for wanting to make a profit from your own
designs, and the effort you put into them. I just get irritated by seeing these 'free' mods only to find out they are incomplete.

For what it's worth, I've seen this frustration expressed by other. It has come up in several different places and it's always about your BD-2 Mason mod and Keeley's SEM\Ultra for the DS-1

I resign myself to just buying the mod kit now that they are available.

I'm sorry, but this statement really irks me. The information was uploaded to a free site. The fact that it may have been incomplete doesn't matter. Why do people get so mad when what they get for free is not to their liking?

People like Keeley, Wampler, 11 gauge, et al. have years of knowledge working on pedals. Myself, I have 30 years working in the electronics industry as an engineering tech/engineer, as well as many years working with pedals and musical equipment. I think that the very fact that we have spent time, energy and especially money to learn our craft at the very least warrants compensation for our efforts. If we choose to voluntarily divulge information in its entirety, then that is one thing. However, to demand such information for free is incredibly rude.

So, other than going to school and learning how to do so on your own, then the perhaps the best solution would be to indeed purchase the mod.

/rant

Well then, you're irked. Let me know how that works out for you.

I think it's more or less deceptive when someone claims to make public a mod, but not bother to tell you IT'S INCOMPLETE up front.

If I knew up front it was incomplete, I wouldn't even bother heating up the iron to do the mod, let alone spend money on the parts. I'd just buy the mod outright. And what's more, at the time, the only way to get the mod was to buy the ENTIRE book just to get that one mod. How do you suppose this works?

Meanwhile, get that badger out of yer pants...

Well then, you're irked. Let me know how that works out for you.

I think it's more or less deceptive when someone claims to make public a mod, but not bother to tell you IT'S INCOMPLETE up front.

If I knew up front it was incomplete, I wouldn't even bother heating up the iron to do the mod, let alone spend money on the parts. I'd just buy the mod outright. And what's more, at the time, the only way to get the mod was to buy the ENTIRE book just to get that one mod. How do you suppose this works?

Meanwhile, get that badger out of yer pants...

Then may I suggest that you take the time to learn how to do it yourself, instead of relying on the hard work of others to do it for you, if you don't want to buy the entire book.

Right, I've seen it. It's the incomplete or partial version.

I do not fault you for wanting to make a profit from your own
designs, and the effort you put into them. I just get irritated by seeing these 'free' mods only to find out they are incomplete.



Just curious, how do you know the mod you read on that forum was incomplete? The guy who came up with it seems to think he posted the whole thing...Has it been updated lately?

I think the beef here should be with Premier Guitar. If they advertised a magazine as containing the instructions for the mod but the instructions weren't complete, why not write to them for the complete instructions (since you did indeed pay for them when you bought the magazine, right)? They should publish an apology and the entire project or at least fill you in. Heck, you'd be mad if you bought a song for a transcription and only half the song was there.

FWIW, I would tend to just buy the mod. As Montana Dawg says, you are buying their intellectual property and it's not much more than the parts anyway. I'm just glad blokes like Brian and Monte come up with the tones that they do. The Mason mod does sound incredible and I love my Plexidrive.

Here you go - I have created a pdf for you guys, complete with the correction. Pass it around as you wish, just don't do the modification for profit.
http://www.indyguitarist.com/temp1/bd2-brentmason-mod.pdf

Thanks,
Brian

duplicate post

Thanks Brian, that's very generous of you to share your hard work for free like that. Everyone should be happy now (I hope). :grin:

PS glad you posted that breadboarding video on youtube. I went and bought a breadboard and bits and pieces after I saw that video.

i have brians book on effect pedals and have done the mason mod on my bd2. not a massive change but a bit smoother and less high end fizz.

although the mod i have i a little different to the one posted. is that a new edition of the book brian? if so is there any chance of a link where i can download it?

Here you go - I have created a pdf for you guys, complete with the correction. Pass it around as you wish, just don't do the modification for profit.
http://www.indyguitarist.com/temp1/bd2-brentmason-mod.pdf

Thanks,
Brian

Many thanks for this, most excellent technical info on what the mod actually does. Generosity like this is seldom seen these days. However, can you confirm the C27 and C7 changes on page 2, they aren’t mentioned in the description? (C7 - change from 10uF to 1uF), C27, same value as stock (0.0022uf)?
Thanks.!

Many thanks for this, most excellent technical info on what the mod actually does. Generosity like this is seldom seen these days. However, can you confirm the C27 and C7 changes on page 2, they aren’t mentioned in the description? (C7 - change from 10uF to 1uF), C27, same value as stock (0.0022uf)?
Thanks.!

Yes - these are coupling caps so they can influence sound quite a bit. Changing to the same value on c27, just a better type of cap. C7 I change because I don't like the sound of electrolytics or tantalum in this pedal when used as a coupling cap.
Hope that helps! :)
Thanks,
Brian

Yes - these are coupling caps so they can influence sound quite a bit. Changing to the same value on c27, just a better type of cap. C7 I change because I don't like the sound of electrolytics or tantalum in this pedal when used as a coupling cap.
Hope that helps! :)
Thanks,
Brian

Thanks, so C7 is dropped from 10uF to 1uF, I presume to filter out more bass after the opamp? edit.... Hang on though, some confusion here! Just took another look at the schem, C7 appears after the opamp on the official Boss schematic, but in your instructions there is a cut down schem of the tone stack, and C7 is listed there as a 0.047uf (should be C35).

@11 Guage:

hey man, have you heard of the machine head bd 2 mod? It's like what you described in your first post of making the most out of the bd2's jfets. what's your take on that? How does it differ from the regular bd2 mods?

@11 Guage:

hey man, have you heard of the machine head bd 2 mod? It's like what you described in your first post of making the most out of the bd2's jfets. what's your take on that? How does it differ from the regular bd2 mods?

Yeah - I've heard of it (and heard it), and you're right - it's a mod that's straight down my alley.

IMO, most (maybe all?) other BD-2 mods seem to concentrate on keeping the boost, gain, and treble close to stock. But I have much better boost pedals, so would never use the BD-2 for that, anyways. And at higher gain settings, the BD-2 gets way too bright for my tastes. All other mods that I've tried have less fizz at higher settings, but it's still there, more than I'd personally like.

The MH mod for this pedal is the only one that dumps some gain and ditches the clipping diodes, both to my liking, tonewise. If you like how pedals like the Dirty Little Secret or the JFET based "amp simulating" projects over at runoffgroove.com sound, then you'll probably like the MH - this is just a guess, though. It does not sound like any particular amp being simulated though. It's soft and "organic" (ugh - HATE that word) sounding IMO, simply going from the sound clips and YouTube clips.

That mod also loses most of the fuzz at higher gain settings, other than what you'd get from a pushed amp - it doesn't "stick out" like other BD-2 mods. gearmanndude has clips of it with a Strat and SG that just sound like either butter or complete gonads, IMO. The only problem with that mod is many guitarists probably just won't get it, because they expect the BD-2 to do it's standard things (strong boost, tons of treble, lots of gain), just less fizzy. The MH clearly has less gain and is warmer and rounder, and kind of "springy" compared to other BD-2 mods, IMO. Not everyone's cup of tea. But variety can be the spice of life...

dalandan, You do know that 11 guage is machine head pedals right?

11 guage is machine head pedals

Ahh....busted! :oops:

In my own defense, I concluded with:

"The only problem with that mod is many guitarists probably just won't get it, because they expect the BD-2 to do it's standard things (strong boost, tons of treble, lots of gain), just less fizzy. The MH clearly has less gain and is warmer and rounder, and kind of "springy" compared to other BD-2 mods, IMO. Not everyone's cup of tea."

I knew it was a matter of time before the dots would be connected, especially given my fascination with the BD-2. At the same time, I've realized from the beginning that the mod would go against the grain in respect to most if not all other BD-2 mods. I tried to reflect that in my perception, despite the subjectivity.

...For these reasons, I've loved discussing aspects of BD-2 mods that just never seem to get addressed by others. I tried to just keep it as ideas on things to try, rather than forwarding an entire recipe, or anything that was beyond just an exchange of (some) information. I tried to walk that fine line, trying to be helpful but discrete. I only offered my opinions on the MH mod when directly asked, which was incredibly stupid of me.

It was a really lame thing to do. I never intended to be misleading, or offer anything more than my own opinions. If you go back and read my replies, it should reflect that (I hope). Nonetheless, if anything is viewed as misleading or ulterior, I do sincerely apologize, and understand. I just wanted to talk shop and offer ideas. When asked about the MH, I should have pleaded the 5th. :oops:

Yeah Ive got a good friend who is a cop and its always fun when we go some where together and nobody knows him. One time we were at a gas station in a little country town and a couple sheriffs drove by and everyone in the store {about ten people} started talking bad about cops even the sale clerk. There my friend stood just agreeing with them even though he was a cop it was so funny. Any how I know what you mean sometimes you could just open up a big stinky can of worms by letting people know who you really are.

11 Gauge,

I'm not sure why you feel the need to apologize. For one thing, I can't quite tell what you feel you've done wrong. Especially in light of the nature of this thread - pedal modders\builders offering 'free' mods but being deceptive\disingenuous that the mods are incomplete or old versions, and not being up front about it.

You never made any claims, and you're always helpful answering more questions than I'd ever have time to (as if I had a clue about what I was doing)

don't mountain the molehill man.

Rev C.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to apologize.

Because of the potential of giving my subjective thoughts on the MH mod as seeming ulterior. While my intentions were just providing my opinions, for the casual reader of this thread, it may not appear that way. My opinions on that mod are irrelevant. This is a DIY forum, and I need to remember that.

Brian,
Thanks for sharing this information, very generous!

From the factory schematic that I have, it also appears that C35=0.047uF and C34=0.1uF are just same value capacitor upgrades. Can anyone verify this?

Thanks!