The Anti-Modernist Shuffle

Any of y'all play in a church with a sizable anti-contemporary praise music contingent?

At my prior church, I knew such people existed. With one exception (we had a busybody self-important "church lady" type who once tried to order the praise band to change an arrangement during a pre-service run-through-- a power play she thought she could manage due to the praise team leader not being there that Sunday) though, they went to "their" trad service and I never heard a peep from them.

At the church I'm currently at, there's a lot more old people, and a lot bigger anti-modernist contingent. To make matters worse, because we're in a college town, in summer they combine both services into one, forcing all the people who can't stand modern music to have to suffer through a whopping 3 to 5 praise team songs per service.

:roll:

Fortunately, only one more week of combined service. It's bad enough that I've only playing here a couple months (have been attending for over a year and been a member at least half that), and that I'm basically learning to play mandolin in front of 200-300 people weekly, but the praise team is stuck on a little riser right up at the front of the church, so there's no way to hide and I feel like every body movement and facial expression is being scrutinized.

At practice, our singer for this week was one of the elders, a nice lady who nevertheless felt compelled to pass along that some of the old folks (she didn't say old folks, but everyone knows it's not the younger people complaining) thought the music was too loud, particularly during communion. (I say this as an old folk myself: we're not too loud. Srsly.) Then during a pre-service run-through on Sunday, we were doing a particularly traditional-sounding song, and as the flautist looks at the sheet music, she remarks to no one in particular "Ah, some REAL music."

I think you get the kind of ingrained bias I'm dealing with here.

I know this is an imperfect world and we all have our crosses to bear. But frankly this kind of thing can have all kind of negative effects on me, from instilling nervousness/performance anxiety (after 10 years of weekly services at my prior church I'd thought that'd be something I seldom if ever had to deal with again), to making me depressed about our music mission, to, and I will admit this, making me angry. I mean, I could go to the traditional service and have a word with the pastor afterward-- "Do you think the music could be a little less boring? All that organ music puts me to sleep. And the altos were using a ridiculous amount of coloratura, don't you think? And handbell choirs? I know those bells must've been expensive and all, but anything more than 4 performances a year by such a niche ensemble is pretty excessive."

OK. End rant.

Does anyone else deal with this sort of thing at their church? Talk to me peoples.

They wanna party like it's 1499... :grin:

They wanna party like it's 1499... :grin:

Oh man, "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" is a great hymn, but so plodding and dreary. Who writes a hymn extolling how great and powerful God is, and writes it in a minor key?

Apparently, Martin Luther himself.

:mrgreen:

I had to shake that dust off my feet a long time ago,,,, now I'm faced with the "this stuff all sounds the same " dilema.

Oh man, "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" is a great hymn, but so plodding and dreary. Who writes a hymn extolling how great and powerful God is, and writes it in a minor key?

Apparently, Martin Luther himself.

:mrgreen:

Actually, I have found that if you have a good organist who can play "A Mighty Fortress..." uptempo and with a lighter dance beat, it looses the plodding nature. Still some dreary items being covered, and all the verses, but it can be done in an uplifting manner. I'm guessing minor keys were all the rage back in the Baroque era; true pop music:lol: That's my church's "poster hymn" you're dissin':roll::lol:

Yeah, we have had a fair amount of anti-P&W style issues. But most have been solved by having different services (and not combining services in the Summer). But to be fair, if the kids in our church decided that the style should be a la Red instead of a la MW Smith/SC Chapman/Hillsong etc., then there might be some "CCM" backlash to that music as well.

Actually, I have found that if you have a good organist who can play "A Mighty Fortress..." uptempo and with a lighter dance beat, it looses the plodding nature. Still some dreary items being covered, and all the verses, but it can be done in an uplifting manner. I'm guessing minor keys were all the rage back in the Baroque era; true pop music:lol: That's my church's "poster hymn" you're dissin':roll::lol:



My church's too, Scooter-- I'm Missouri Synod Lutheran.

That's why I chose it.

;)

Yeah, I'm LCMS too. What do you expect, a bunch of hard headed folks from German (I'm so rarely wrong you can think of it as NEVER), and Scandanavian (you got to be wrong because I truly NEVER am, and I don't agree with you) stock who all looked for places as forlorn as the old country.....:lol:

I doubt that in my dotage I will be any less stiff-necked. Hope and pray not, but....:roll:

ummm, I don't like the modernist stuff very much. I used to help out a friend with his pw band and I didn't feel it the same way (or as deeply) as I did when we just stood and sang.

I guess I'm one of the fuddy duddies. I think if my church had a 'modern' band, I'd probably head to another church where it felt the way I want to feel in church...

no offense intended, just kinda offering what us old folks are thinking. I love the old songs and the old arrangements.... not to the total exclusion of new things... but sometimes you just want something you can count on....

ummm, I don't like the modernist stuff very much. I used to help out a friend with his pw band and I didn't feel it the same way (or as deeply) as I did when we just stood and sang.

I guess I'm one of the fuddy duddies. I think if my church had a 'modern' band, I'd probably head to another church where it felt the way I want to feel in church...


But most who love the old songs DO seem to want it to the exclusion of everything else. I grew up on the same old songs. I think any church that wants to survive has to offer its members a choice.

Or you and I will be its last members. Btw, I'm no 20-something. I'm 51.

That's about 25% of my congregation

In my church they like the praise team but I have heard of people coming up saying "You sounded good this week, but I hate the music.:confused:" We have members of our congregation who won't even sing unless they are old hymns. It is kind of discouraging. I love the old standard hymns and appreciate all types of music why can't they? I am sure if those hymns were wrote in todays times they would feature more guitar and bass and they would rock!!!:cool:

First of all,it's not about US------:wink:

Modern praise and worship music has become the darling of the church subculture since it has joined the industry (past 10 years).Now we have big concerts with light shows,flash pods,smoke,and bigger-than-life personnas selling TONS of recordings.It's not everyone,of course,but there are alot of people writing for the charts rather than the hearts.
Too many people are more interested in "what's in it for me?" rather than worshipping.I know of people who church shop for the place with the "cool modern" music.I know musicians who care more about getting to "rock" than bringing glory.
How in the world can a song written in true joy/agony/praise be outdated or old fashioned? I for one quit playing in modern praise teams/bands/orchestras(whatever the flavor-of-the-month term is), and would rather hear someone sing falsetto honestly than the best "modern" band with the super mix and PA doing the religous top 40 deal.YMMV.

ummm, I don't like the modernist stuff very much. I used to help out a friend with his pw band and I didn't feel it the same way (or as deeply) as I did when we just stood and sang.

I guess I'm one of the fuddy duddies. I think if my church had a 'modern' band, I'd probably head to another church where it felt the way I want to feel in church...

no offense intended, just kinda offering what us old folks are thinking. I love the old songs and the old arrangements.... not to the total exclusion of new things... but sometimes you just want something you can count on....

I too like the traditional stuff. And actually miss some of the songs I used to sing. However, I always chaffed at songs that were supposed to be happy songs being played a dirge tempos. I don't mind a dirge at a dirge tempo, but... I am always reminded in some services of Mahler's 5th symphony (I think that's the one) where Freres Jacques is turned into a literal funeral dirge (slow and in a minor key in some churches.

I think it is the lack of ability for many organists to actually go up tempo on songs that should be up tempo that drives many nuts. I would LOVE a blended service where you could have traditional, CCM "top 40" and even more avant garde stuff. THAT could be cool.

Music plays a big part in what church I'd go to. I grew up in an oldschool church, and if I never hear another organ/piano combo pumping out a funeral dirge hymn, or have to listen to out of pitch/tone deaf singers doing a 'special' because they 'feel called' and nobody dares tell them they can't sing, and anyone with a 'gift' should be able to 'share' I'll be quite alright. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's me.

I'll take the modern worship any day. They way I look at it is, find a church that fits your needs. If you like the old stuff, find a church that provides that. If you like the new stuff, ditto.

And I do agree, it's not about 'us' but that does not mean we can't move ahead into the future. There is nothing wrong with loud guitars, screens, lights, whatever as long as your heart is in the right place. Same with the other side of things. I am sure at some point some rockin' organist fulfilled some 'rockstar' fantasy once or twice, when they failed the Deep Purple audition. There's people in stuff for the wrong reasons everywhere, unfortunately.

We don't have any kind of keyboards on our P/W team. And for the most part, I am ok with that. There are a few songs where I wish we had one, slower stuff mainly, but we get by. We do have some people who like the old hymns, and we put them in the set, but we modernize them. It may not be ideal for everyone, but if people say it's the 'words' that stand the test of time, changing the music shouldn't matter much. It's often a balancing act, and you can't please everyone. But most people know what kind of music we play, and many come or stay because of it. I am sure there have been a few that have not come back, but like I said, it's not for everyone.

Interesting thread. Our little startup/spinoff doesn't have the luxury of multiple services (unlike the "mother" church), and our music is decidedly more contemporary, but the typical flow is like a big "U," with the service kicking off and ending on driving stuff, and toning down in the middle, especially at communion, where we'll always have a traditional hymn as backup if it runs long. And, usually there's a moderate contemporary or traditional tune in the opening lineup, to try and cover bases. If there's any complaints, they go to the WL, and she's the one who does the set list, so I assume it's where it is to cover the congregation, which is fairly mixed in age (I'm probably one of the older members).

It seems that when you went to a combined service, some adjustments needed to be made, and maybe some were, but probably not enough for some folks. Maybe the WL or paster need to be more open about what to expect in the summer, and more flexible about making adjustments to placate folks who are being put in a worship setting they wouldn't choose. Making the congregation comfortable in worship, so you can focus on the reason for being there, instead of being annoyed by too loud music, music that's too old-fashioned (or off-key singing if you're one of those who notice - a minority, it seems), etc., is what we need to try and do, and it's a balancing act that takes talent, and experience, I believe. Open discussion with the WL, other band members, and some prayer, never hurts in these kinds of situations.

Interesting topic. Our one and only service is mixed generation with most leading to the older crowd. We try to mix in both old and newer songs for both however I enjoy the newer stuff. I realize that which is played is not about us but about serving the lord and inspiring others to do so as well. That being said, when members or member of the church try to cut a type of music out because it does not fit what they want to hear at the expense of another group (not talking worship team) then it makes you wonder where their heart and mind are. If Peter, Paul and rest could worship god while chained in prison why cant we. Some songs may not be to our taste but to the person sitting next to us in the pew it maybe the song that touches them and they lift their hands and become one with god. Do we take that away from them in a selfish manner because it wasn't "The old rugged cross" or Third day's "Revelation" Maybe that song had meaning in their life. I think a blend of music is was is called for but that's my 2 cents.

I also think that sometimes we as musicians tend to not notice what is happening on a given Sunday. I know I am guilty of this. Meaning that we really look out and see what is working and what isn't and adjust what we play on the fly. I know this is something that can't be practiced but if we had a couple songs old and new we could throw in pending on which style was moving everyone to worship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGEmlPjgjVI

I suppose the answer is that there should be moderation in all things a mix of styles if you will. But why is it that the only real difference between the contemporary and traditional services is the music?

My wife and I are both middle-aged; I am a lot more “aged” than she. We prefer the more traditional hymns that we were raised on. Yeah all our lives we’ve heard the singers that warble off-key and we poke a bit of fun at them, I’m not a big fan of songs that are heavy into the “blood of the lamb” stuff, but there is just something far more worshipful and respectful about the traditional hymns. Perhaps it’s more thought behind the words, or the time-honored melodies of the music, but contemporary music sounds way too much like an attempt at corporate pop tunes.

Not that we are opposed to modern instrumentation of songs. There are three churches that worship in our building one of them being a Brazilian congregation. Every now and then they are invited to lead the worship service, ever try singing hymns in Portuguese or Spanish with a samba beat, believe me it can be quite spiritual and a lot of fun.

It really is about the experience more than the orchestration. Of course our church is in the process of finding a new worship leader who will bring a more contemporary feel to the service, so you can guess where that may lead. :!:

But Brian – to answer your question, I think most churches have at least a small contingent that don’t like the contemparary praise services. Most of them are probably the older church members whose tithes are the ones that are keeping the roof from leaking in the winter. At my mother’s church they hold the traditional service first because the “the kids won’t be able to get out of bed early enough to make it to an 8 AM service.” Believe me it’s a lot harder for my 83-year-old mother to make it to an 8 AM service than some 22 year old who’s been out late on Saturday night.

Oh man, "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" is a great hymn, but so plodding and dreary. Who writes a hymn extolling how great and powerful God is, and writes it in a minor key?

Apparently, Martin Luther himself.

:mrgreen:

Well, he did like to drink, you know.

Hey the purpose of music in church is religious in nature. If the music supports the purpose of 'worship' then there shouldn't be too much discussion or disagreement either way. However, I still need to agree with the other poster, if it really bothers you, then go somewhere else.. or suck it up and forget about it. Church music on a Sunday morning is not like playing the radio or just singing the songs that you like. However, everyone can take what they are given and run with it... or not, those are the choices. IMHO, too many people are letting themselves get ripped off from receiving a blessing because they want things 'their' way... myself included.

The music I play to commune with God is not always the same as what we play in church. After struggling with that for too many years I decided not to let it bother me and just jump in and go with the flow.

I just was thinking about my musical tastes. With secular music I prefer the 50's, 60's and 70's variety. Church and praise music it is the modern stuff for me.

In the church I attend, we are a 50/50 split of those who like traditional and Southern/Bluegrass Gospel and those who like the modern styles. It's a fine line to walk, and one person could easily split the church on this issue by being careless.
There are also a few, like me, who like it all. As long as it lifts up the name of Christ and glorifies Him, it's all good. I play all different styles, whatever I feel led to at the time. However, I do have a few guidelines I follow. Firstly, I play electric guitar exclusively, because I have physical issues with the depth of an acoustic guitar body that make it impossible to play one without intense pain. I have not encountered opposition to the electric, mainly because no matter what style I'm playing, I follow 2 rules. 1-Watch the volume. That single rule will take you a long way in mixed congregations. 2-I play ABSOLUTELY CLEAN. No distortion, ever, except in the way that I hit the strings to color the tone of the song. I even go so far as to re-arrange the songs to "mellow them out" a bit, when nescessary.
Playing worship is, IMHO, about compromise. I'm trying to enable or enhance worship for ALL the members of my church, not just the ones who happen to like the particular style I'm playing at the moment. It may be an unpopular idea, but it is not about the music. It's about the message in the music. If I can take a song that's in a certain style that might not be well recieved in my church but has a great message and rearrange it so that it can be played there and enjoyed BY EVERYONE and get that great message across at the same time, I'll do whatever I can to make that happen. In the end, it's not about the style or even how well it's played, it's about finding a way to serve the broadest possible group in the body of Christ that I can. MHO.

People do what they have to do for their particular church.

But a no distortion ever rule and mellowing everything out means playing songs in a way they weren't intended and more importantly can get dead boring. Might as well be listening to organ music again.

Our prior music director blanded out every arrangement. He was very talented but it was sad hearing songs that were supposed to get people's attention and move in a modern way treated in such fashion. Like hearing Pat Boone ding Tutti Fruity. At some point it's not really a contemporary music service any more. My wife described the service back then as "contemporary worship-- for people who hate contemporary music." Ugh. It's much better now. There are still traditional hymns, but the contemporary songs are played as such.

[QUOTE=Brian Krashpad;2015566]People do what they have to do for their particular church.

But a no distortion ever rule and mellowing everything out means playing songs in a way they weren't intended and more importantly can get dead boring. Might as well be listening to organ music again.QUOTE]

It can also make you a better player by forcing you to reach down inside and find creative ways to play songs and still keep the original flavor and intent. Also, I'm not playing to make me feel good, or to avoid becoming bored. It's not about me, it's about Mathew 20:26-28. I'm not there to serve my own needs, but the needs of the congregation God has placed me in. All of that congregation. It depends what you want out of the service.
But I might point out that our situations are vastly different. We don't have a Worship leader or Music leader who controls what is played. It's up to each of us who play to find the common ground nescessary to serve as best we can. I don't play someone else's arrangement, I play my own, and that gives me great freedom in how I decide to go about arranging the music. I also have only myself to blame when things don't work out.

I try to mix it up. We also try to keep the flavor of the original song. I've got a rat, a little big muff and FD2 on my board, and I've used them all during worship.

There is also know when not to use that stuff.

But again, our church is very contemporary. There are a few folks that probably don't like everything we do, but they also know what they are going to hear when they come every week. We never had to 'introduce' much to them, since our church is newer and we pretty much started off like that, so I guess that makes it easy. We try to temper the upbeat stuff with mellower stuff, and we have been putting some old hymns in, but usually make them more contemporary music-wise.

Every church is different, and what works at mine may not work at yours.

I'm trying to enable or enhance worship for ALL the members of my church, not just the ones who happen to like the particular style I'm playing at the moment. It may be an unpopular idea, but it is not about the music. It's about the message in the music. If I can take a song that's in a certain style that might not be well recieved in my church but has a great message and rearrange it so that it can be played there and enjoyed BY EVERYONE and get that great message across at the same time, I'll do whatever I can to make that happen. In the end, it's not about the style or even how well it's played, it's about finding a way to serve the broadest possible group in the body of Christ that I can. MHO.

+ 17,542.8 :mrgreen:

Perhaps the people that are being called anti-modernist really just want some variety other than with and without distortion.

In the church I attend we play a wide variety of music. We joke that we have something to offend everyone. We also tend to keep the sound at a level that is comfortable for everyone. Louder is not always better.

I find that some comtemporary worship folks are just as set in their ways as the traditionalist folks. I had a worship leader once tell me that singing the classic hymns the way they were written was "what is wrong with the church today". (I thought maybe what was wrong with the church was all the people who thought they had all the answers). That worship leader is no longer leading our worship because he was unwilling to listen to anyone or consider any opinions but his own. He drove away the people who would have been his biggest supporters if he had been a bit more open minded.

I have had some people tell me they left the church they were attending and came to ours because the music in the other church was so loud it was painful. They like modern music but they don't want to be deaf by age 30.

There has been a lot of Christain music created in 2000 years. It seems a shame to think that everything written before 2000, or 2005 or 2009 or last week is worthless and everything since whatever date you pick is wonderful. It is also a shame to think that anything new and different is bad. I think there is room for both.

I also think the battle lines of electric guitars and drum vs. pianos and organs is a major waste. People have talents and training on many different instruments. I think we should use them all. I think a few of us guitarists would learn a lesson in humility if we tried to play a pipe organ and make it sound good. I know people who have taken lessons and practiced for years and are now pushed aside because the organ is 'so old school'.

One last word and I will get off my soap box. Classic hymns do not always need to be modernized. Many of us grew up with these hymns and know them and love them the way they were written. Our former worship leader was fond of creating what some of our folks (not too lovingly) called Frank-en-hymns. They were sort of like the hymns we knew but not really.


It is a big Church and there is room enough for all kinds of music.

Ken

RCAHope

Welcome, and well-said.

Perhaps the people that are being called anti-modernist really just want some variety other than with and without distortion.

In the church I attend we play a wide variety of music. We joke that we have something to offend everyone. We also tend to keep the sound at a level that is comfortable for everyone. Louder is not always better.

I find that some comtemporary worship folks are just as set in their ways as the traditionalist folks. I had a worship leader once tell me that singing the classic hymns the way they were written was "what is wrong with the church today". (I thought maybe what was wrong with the church was all the people who thought they had all the answers). That worship leader is no longer leading our worship because he was unwilling to listen to anyone or consider any opinions but his own. He drove away the people who would have been his biggest supporters if he had been a bit more open minded.

I have had some people tell me they left the church they were attending and came to ours because the music in the other church was so loud it was painful. They like modern music but they don't want to be deaf by age 30.

There has been a lot of Christain music created in 2000 years. It seems a shame to think that everything written before 2000, or 2005 or 2009 or last week is worthless and everything since whatever date you pick is wonderful. It is also a shame to think that anything new and different is bad. I think there is room for both.

I also think the battle lines of electric guitars and drum vs. pianos and organs is a major waste. People have talents and training on many different instruments. I think we should use them all. I think a few of us guitarists would learn a lesson in humility if we tried to play a pipe organ and make it sound good. I know people who have taken lessons and practiced for years and are now pushed aside because the organ is 'so old school'.

One last word and I will get off my soap box. Classic hymns do not always need to be modernized. Many of us grew up with these hymns and know them and love them the way they were written. Our former worship leader was fond of creating what some of our folks (not too lovingly) called Frank-en-hymns. They were sort of like the hymns we knew but not really.


It is a big Church and there is room enough for all kinds of music.

Ken

+1

Perhaps the people that are being called anti-modernist really just want some variety other than with and without distortion.

No. That's not it. At all.

Let's review, just to be clear.

For most of the year, people who want variety have their choice of a traditional service, which features organ, handbell choir, and probably piano from time to time, in a traditional litugical service. I believe they also have horns and strings from time to time as well. They also have the late service which features all of that, plus a praise band for 3 to 5 songs, in a less-liturgical service. The praise band has piano, drums, bass, electric guitar, and most services also mandolin and acoustic-electric, and once a month or so, flute also. And from time to time I play a 12-string electric in addition to 6-string electric.

Short of importing a Thai shadow-puppet show complete with bamboo flute orchestra, we'd be hard-pressed to offer more variety. What in any of my posts led you to the conclusion that the variety being offered was a choice of "with and without distortion?"


We also tend to keep the sound at a level that is comfortable for everyone. Louder is not always better.

Again, please read my OP. I'm having a hard time seeing where I (or anyone else in the thread) said anything within a mile of "louder is better." Never happened. Original post: "I say this as an old folk myself: we're not too loud. Srsly."


I have had some people tell me they left the church they were attending and came to ours because the music in the other church was so loud it was painful. They like modern music but they don't want to be deaf by age 30.

Good for them. But guess what? We're not loud. You could sit in the front row, closest to this praise band, every Sunday for 50 years and not lose one iota of hearing.

Srsly.


There has been a lot of Christian music created in 2000 years. It seems a shame to think that everything written before 2000, or 2005 or 2009 or last week is worthless and everything since whatever date you pick is wonderful. It is also a shame to think that anything new and different is bad. I think there is room for both.

Again, I'm missing how I've said anything different. For most of the year, our church has 2 services: one COMPLETELY traditional, and one at least 50% traditional. Isn't that "room for both?" Even during the summer when we have a combined service, it's still at least 50% traditional, and more than that most Sundays.


I also think the battle lines of electric guitars and drum vs. pianos and organs is a major waste. People have talents and training on many different instruments. I think we should use them all. I think a few of us guitarists would learn a lesson in humility if we tried to play a pipe organ and make it sound good. I know people who have taken lessons and practiced for years and are now pushed aside because the organ is 'so old school'.

That's a shame, and I hate to keep giving the reality checks, but nothing remotely like that has happened at our church. There's an entire service devoted entirely to organ/traditional music. The problem is that a vocal minority of people who go to the OTHER service simply don't want ANY contemporary music in "their" church. Why not just go to the service they'd clearly prefer?



One last word and I will get off my soap box. Classic hymns do not always need to be modernized. Many of us grew up with these hymns and know them and love them the way they were written.

As do I. At our church most of the praise band songs are not reworked hymns. Since the organ plays about as many songs as the praise band does in the blended service, everyone gets trad hymns played trad.


It is a big Church and there is room enough for all kinds of music.

Agreed. But there are some people who don't think so, and some go to my church.

I'm Roman Catholic, and it's pretty common knowledge that Catholics can't sing (there's even a book on it, that claims it's the Irish influence on American Catholicism. But I digress.).


At practice, our singer ... [passed] ... along that some of the old folks (she didn't say old folks, but everyone knows it's not the younger people complaining) thought the music was too loud, particularly during communion. (I say this as an old folk myself: we're not too loud. Srsly.)


If an individual thinks it's too loud, then it's too loud for them. You can't legitimately argue with an opinion like that. You can dismiss it, you can think the person is wrong, but you can't argue about it or convince them that it's not too loud.

I remember playing a little concert at a retirement home with a small jazz ensemble, maybe five pieces. We tried to be sensitive to the audience, and played quietly. About mid-performance I happened to look out at the audience and saw about five people with their hands over their ears. To them, it was too loud. They couldn't leave, and the music was causing them distress. To say the least, that was not the effect we were looking for. So we tried to dial it down even more than we had.

The point is, as a praise team you have two, maybe three purposes:
- to assist the congregation in their worship
- to worship yourselves via your music
- to make the highest-quality music you can manage

You have to play what the congregation thinks will help them in their worship; if you play music that is distracting for some reason (like in the opinion of the some of the congregation you're too loud) then you detract from that group's worship.

You have a particularly difficult issue here, since you have effectively two congregations to minister to: the "old folks" and the younger part. By your post, you wish to cater to the younger part. But a professional attitude would lead you to try to figure out a way to cater to both - not an easy thing to determine.

Maybe what you could do is weather the current situation until the congregation splits again in the fall (why are there two congregations, by the way - figuring that out will give you a certain degree of insight). Then, try to attend both services and learn how to play for both. That might lead you to being able to figure out how to strike a happy medium for next year.

As for the interference and power plays you've observed, well, welcome to humanity. You'll find that everywhere.

And considering the preference of the flutist for printed music, a lot of musicians come from a tradition of playing from sheet music and prefer that. Get used to it and learn to work with it. The flutist is trying to help with the worship, too - cut them some slack and work toward your common goal.

You're nervous because you're in a situation that's new to you and you're uncomfortable. Goes with the territory.

Remember, as a member of a praise band, it's not about you. In fact, as a musician in performance, it's almost never about you. It's about the audience.

Just my viewpoint. Good luck.

If an individual thinks it's too loud, then it's too loud for them. You can't legitimately argue with an opinion like that. You can dismiss it, you can think the person is wrong, but you can't argue about it or convince them that it's not too loud.

Loudness can be measured totally objectively, in dB's. After that it becomes a question of what is appropriate. However, playing with a drum kit (and our drummer does not hit hard) establishes a minimum baseline that the other instruments have to match. People who have the "opinion" that it's too loud even at that minimum level are ignoring the reality of the situation and do not understand how live music must be played. Is it their opinion? Yes. Is it in any way reasonable or realistic? Not even close.

The funny thing is, I guarantee you that if you took a dB meter, took it up to the choir/organ loft, and measured the sound level, they'd be every bit as loud, or louder, than the praise band. What the anti-modernists aren't really complaining about is sound level, it's what's being played.

I remember playing a little concert at a retirement home with a small jazz ensemble, maybe five pieces. We tried to be sensitive to the audience, and played quietly. About mid-performance I happened to look out at the audience and saw about five people with their hands over their ears. To them, it was too loud. They couldn't leave, and the music was causing them distress. To say the least, that was not the effect we were looking for. So we tried to dial it down even more than we had.

This is exactly the kind of people who need to be going to our traditional service. Yet some of them would apparently rather, for reasons that will never make any sense to me, go to the blended service, and then complain.


You have to play what the congregation thinks will help them in their worship; if you play music that is distracting for some reason (like in the opinion of the some of the congregation you're too loud) then you detract from that group's worship.

You have a particularly difficult issue here, since you have effectively two congregations to minister to: the "old folks" and the younger part. By your post, you wish to cater to the younger part.

No, I just want to play contemporary music how it should be played. The problem is that some anti-modernists will play the loud card when we're already at the baseline minimal level for playing with drums (which, by the way, are not mic'd). My guitar is not in the PA either.

I honestly think that for the single-service summer, we need to print an explanation in the bulletin that we cannot "turn down" the drums, and that persons unused to hearing contemporary music played live simply sit further away from the band. You'd think people could figure that out, but apparently not.


And considering the preference of the flutist for printed music, a lot of musicians come from a tradition of playing from sheet music and prefer that. Get used to it and learn to work with it. The flutist is trying to help with the worship, too - cut them some slack and work toward your common goal.


The flautist's comment, unfortunately, had nothing to do with printed sheet music. We play from printed sheet music. She was commenting that she was glad to play that particular song because it was a traditional song. Older. Thus "real" music. Apparently everything written in the last 50 years has been imaginary.

:rolleyes:

Loudness can be measured totally objectively, in dB's. After that it becomes a question of what is appropriate. However, playing with a drum kit (and our drummer does not hit hard) establishes a minimum baseline that the other instruments have to match. People who have the "opinion" that it's too loud even at that minimum level are ignoring the reality of the situation and do not understand how live music must be played. Is it their opinion? Yes. Is it in any way reasonable or realistic? Not even close.

The funny thing is, I guarantee you that if you took a dB meter, took it up to the choir/organ loft, and measured the sound level, they'd be every bit as loud, or louder, than the praise band. What the anti-modernists aren't really complaining about is sound level, it's what's being played.


You could be right about that. The drummer in my band isn't particularly loud but at his church (which is a room for 1500+) his drums are too much: the crack of the snare and the constancy of the kick have landed him in an isolation box.

"Traditional" music tends to make more of dynamics, with more variety in the melody lines, lead lines that switch between 2-3 instruments or vocal ranges (if a church is blessed* enough to have a choir or orchestra), and hearty but short refrains. In "Modern" music, when the drum kicks in you can count on it being IN for the next 20** repeats of Shout to the Lord (or whatever). Rock (even the bland form we know as "worship music") is characteristically louder and more intense than other forms. MOST of us WOULDN'T like a worship service built around house or trance styles because those are even louder and more insistent than the rock we like...even though those are what's TRULY "modern".

IMHO many churches ought to use congas for rhythm, rather than drum sets. Until then, my drummer plays happily in his plexiglass walls, as loud as he wants, knowing his sacrifice is helping the rest of the church worship more enjoyably.


* I say "blessed" seriously, even though I don't dig most choirs or church orchestras. What a gift, though, in the right setting!

** I kid, I kid. Usually it's 30 or more repeats. :lol: