Solid-Body Jazz Club

For all of us using solid or semi-hollow guitars for Jazz or a Jazzy tone. Talk about your gear and some tips for that smooth tone.
I have a home brew les paul with P-90's. A chambered partscaster tele with mahogony/ebony neck, and an epi 335 (someday I will have a gibson).
I have a fender Blues Deluxe RI, and I have been getting good results lately by turning down the treble on the amp, instead of the tone control on my guitar.
See some of my gear here and feel free to leave a comment:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/165202-2nd-build-1st-tele-partscaster-pics.html

My two main guitars for jazz are my Gibson ES295 and a Kinman Blueprint Telecaster with Joe Barden pickups.

The Joe Barden neck pickup is one of the coolest tones one the planet.
I roll the tone most of the way off and it is just 'that tone'.
Lovely.

I wouldn't call myself a serious jazz player but I have dabbled in it for many years. I enjoy playing jazz on my solidbody Fenders as much as I do on my D'Angelico archtop. My only recommendation is to get to know your tone controls. Personally I find that the treble cut you get from lowering a Fender guitar's volume control produces a better jazz tone than using the tone control by itself. Of course the other half of the equation is the touch with your picking hand. I find that you have to ease up on the picking as compared to what you would do if playing rock or blues.

I use my self built Nocaster. Which has a heavy one piece ash body and a very thin skin, plus Nocaster pickups. I can get a wonderful woody jazz backing tone in the middle position (I have the modern wiring) with the tone backed off then I can switch to the bridge for a solo. I think Leo knew what he was doing, for sure most of the guitar players he and George Fullerton loaned prototypes too were country players but the original Broadcaster/Nocaster/Telecaster was also a great guitar for Jazz.

Wow. You use the middle position. I've never tried for a jazz sound on the middle pos with single coils untill now. It sounded different but nice. I really had to crank my tone down, but it worked. I also tried middle series. With the tone that low, they didn't sound all that different. I'm not sure about only the bridge pick up. I don't hear the jazz there. What is your tone set at A I T?

The tone is set low (about three quarters off, I have the grub screw set so I can feel it) although I play with it a lot. The bridge position sound is of course a bit raw but it works for me. I have a Tech21 trademark 60 amp which is part of the tone, although I can get it through other amps.

OK, I'll join in too. Mainly use my Thinline partscaster with flatwound 11-52 strings. I also use my '72 Thinline RI with VV Vibetron pickups. I also have a an Epiphone Sheraton II with VV Hum size P-90s. Not really into the Gibson and for the money, I would rather get a Custom Guitar made for me. I already have one in mind. Still wouldn't mind an ES-345 or ES-339.

I currently have Thinline project but waiting for $$$ to complete and still can't decide what neck to put on.

Wannabe Jazzer here. So far, just a home Jazz Player

60th Anniversary Ltd Edition Tele (Nocaster P/ups)

Maple/Ash Partscaster w/SD Vintage Mini HB at the Neck and Vintage Stack at the Bridge

Godin Montreal and sometimes even my Peavey USA Wolfgang

All through a Texas Red Special Blues Jr.

Wannabe Jazzer here. So far, just a home Jazz Player

60th Anniversary Ltd Edition Tele (Nocaster P/ups)

Maple/Ash Partscaster w/SD Vintage Mini HB at the Neck and Vintage Stack at the Bridge

Godin Montreal and sometimes even my Peavey USA Wolfgang

All through a Texas Red Special Blues Jr.

Settings, or tone tweaking tips?

Settings, or tone tweaking tips?

Sorry, missed that part! :oops:

My 'reference tone' for all of this is Ed Bickert. Hey, why not aim high!! LOL

I think my favourite is the 60th Anniversary LTD with the nocaster p/ups and standard tele wiring. I tend to run it on the middle switch setting with the tone rolled almost off. It has a very pleasing 'woody' tone to my ear.

The partscaster on the neck p/up (Seymour Duncan vintage min-HB) with the tone rolled back sounds very close but is louder. Not sure of the pots on this one - purchased wired from ebay but they are a replica 'vintage' setup.

The Godin 'Montreal' is a '2-voice' guitar with HB's, a piezo with slider controls and a blend knob. I run this one on the neck p/up with the tone rolled back and the blend set just to add a bit of the piezo. This gives it a nice acoustic flavoured tone. I can also run the HB's split on this one and use that setting on the neck HB as well.

Every once in a while I try the Wolfgang. I just love the neck on this guitar. With the tone rolled off and set on the neck p/up it sounds suprisingly mellow for a rock guitar with a Floyd.

I don't vary the amp much: Master & volume 0n 2-3, Fat switch engaged. Treble 7, bass 10, mid 3-4. This amp sounds quite a bit more pleasing than my stock Bjr. I have also upgraded the tubes with NOS Mullards courtesy of a very good friend who is into vintage audio. I know a lot of people don't like Blues Juniors. I find them very practical amps, plenty loud enough for small gigs and yet great for home use. I really like the Texas Red and it's a keeper. I have been intrigued by the Swart AST for a while now and will probably buy one in the future to replace the stock BJr.

All of my jazz playing/practicing is done at home - solo or with BIAB backing - bass and drums only.

I use the partscaster and stock black BJr when I play in our trio but we play mostly classic and blues rock. I do try to inject a bit of a jazz vibe to my solos and rhythm playing. I tend to use the neck p/up most of the time in this scenario as well and vary the tone knob for effect. This also is the only time I use pedals.

i aspire to jazz guitar....
i play Tele....

i aspire to jazz guitar....
i play Tele....

+1.

When I do attempt jazz (mainly at home, out of earshot of anyone except my unfortunate wife :oops:), I use my solid body Logan Tele. It has a mahogany body and a P-90 pup in the neck. That combination when playing it clean in middle position and especially neck position gives me a fuller, warmer tone. When playing in middle position I also generally roll off the tone a bit, to around 7.

A lot of people using both pick ups(instead of just neck) with some tone roll off. Interesting. Can anyone explain why (how) this might work better for jazz. I've always thought neck for jazz, middle for funk, bridge for rock, and any of the 3 for blues(as an extreme overgeneralisation of course).

No explanation necessary - it just sounds good. With both pickups you get a more midrange tone. The tone rolloff keeps it mellow. I like both the neck pickup and dual-pickup tones for jazz.

With both pickups you get a more midrange tone. The tone rolloff keeps it mellow. I like both the neck pickup and dual-pickup tones for jazz.

+1. Well said, gaddis. My sentiments exactly.

All I play is Jazz and all I play it on is a Tele! I always used to go on about learning to use the tone control, but I latley I've found having a soft left hand technique, and the way you hold a pick and where you pick it (over the neck) is way more important!

Gear wise, I tend to depend upon attack and technique more... but any neck pickup with Alnico 2 magnets just really makes me feel at home!

Hmmm, interesting. To my mind, using tone control is a part of technique, but I can see your point about left hand technique and pick attack. Care to elaborate on the aspects of technique you mentioned?

Let's see....
a "soft" left hand technique would help limit sharp attack transients, and also reduce sustain....

a flat pick attack lets the note "pop" a bit more vis-a-vis a more angled pick attack...

picking over the end of the fingerboard would result in a deeper, more mellow timbre....

all conducive to jazz tone(s) with an instrument with the Tele's inherent brightness and sustain....

I use a mexi-tele with a gibson 57 classic in the neck position. I tend to roll off the tone quite a bit, and use a touch of reverb. Flat wound Daddario chromes, I used to use 12's but have been converting to 11's over the past year. My amp/cab is the standard issue Clarus/RE, I recently found Dandrea pro plec picks that sounds real warm and soft.

The main thing to get that awesome Bickert sound for me is to have a super light right hand touch (anyone reading this thread who isn't a Bickert freak: get your credit card out and immediately order "live at the garden party"). It's harder to keep that RH control at gigs than at home.

Here's a few links of me playing jazz on my tele: excuse the shameless self-promotion

Solo channeling Bickert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFuEDuDAgPQ

overdubbed doing "out of nowhere"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxu0lpWaQwo&feature=channel

and Rocking out with an awesome combo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dacm5yz9Gnk

Paul

Well done Paul. That is as good a jazz tone as I've heard anywhere. Not to mention nice playing.

Yes, Paul, nice tone, tasty licks.

The main thing to get that awesome Bickert sound for me is to have a super light right hand touch (anyone reading this thread who isn't a Bickert freak: get your credit card out and immediately order "live at the garden party"). It's harder to keep that RH control at gigs than at home.



That cd is great, but my fave Bickert cd is "Mike Murley/Steve Wallace/Ed Bickert Trio".

well, hecky naw, how did i miss this club!? i'm practically friggin' cy sperling!

i'm a definite tele jazzer...while i teach all styles, 99% of my gigging is jazz, and 99% of the time i'm taking a tele, specifically my "once an american standard" tele...i've posted about this guitar numerous times, so i won't bore you with the mods i've done...

there's a couple of keys to tele jazz tone, IMHO. a humbucker is not needed (heck, it's rumored "pure desmond" features ed on a pre modded tele...who's gonna knock that tone?)

the amp is crucial. some amps inherently have too much high end and/or bass, and not the midrange of a classic jazz tone. i used a roland cube 60 for quite a while, but once i found my polytone, i knew tone heaven, i keep the EQ dead flat o the amp and adjust the tone from the guitar.

the cat who suggested using the volume to adjust tone is DEAD ON. i never keep the volume at 100%. it allows to keep the tone knob a bit higher (i roll it about half off) so i get a softer sound and i don't lose definition.

what's a thread without pics, right? here i am rockin' the tele at a "hipper than i can really fit into" wine tasting a few months back...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/beaumontmusic/portrait1.jpg

Well, I guess this is why I came to the TDPRI in the first place ... jazz on a Tele.
Though my current 'jazz' tele has filtertron in the neck, you definitely don't need a humbucker there (I play a lot of jazz on Strats too with stock singles).

Big +1 to jazztele's tutorial on the volume and tone knob settings. That's one of the reasons I never use a 'bright cap' on my volume circuits - I like the way the mids sort of 'take over' when you roll it back.
Here's some pics ...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_z3ix5XYOn6s/SIF4Tq1Jz4I/AAAAAAAAAFA/Oa4ZkNKvkpk/s576/formal%20tele.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_z3ix5XYOn6s/SIIwEWjcIaI/AAAAAAAAAO0/_JujG7dGyMg/s576/File0062.jpg

well, hecky naw, how did i miss this club!? i'm practically friggin' cy sperling!

i'm a definite tele jazzer...while i teach all styles, 99% of my gigging is jazz, and 99% of the time i'm taking a tele, specifically my "once an american standard" tele...i've posted about this guitar numerous times, so i won't bore you with the mods i've done...

there's a couple of keys to tele jazz tone, IMHO. a humbucker is not needed (heck, it's rumored "pure desmond" features ed on a pre modded tele...who's gonna knock that tone?)

the amp is crucial. some amps inherently have too much high end and/or bass, and not the midrange of a classic jazz tone. i used a roland cube 60 for quite a while, but once i found my polytone, i knew tone heaven, i keep the EQ dead flat o the amp and adjust the tone from the guitar.

the cat who suggested using the volume to adjust tone is DEAD ON. i never keep the volume at 100%. it allows to keep the tone knob a bit higher (i roll it about half off) so i get a softer sound and i don't lose definition.

what's a thread without pics, right? here i am rockin' the tele at a "hipper than i can really fit into" wine tasting a few months back...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/beaumontmusic/portrait1.jpg

Is that a classical style playing position you use? I find my tele is a bit uncomfortable to play sitting down because it lacks the right arm support of a bigger guitar. Maybe I should try classical position. Do you use a left foot lift?

Let's see....
a "soft" left hand technique would help limit sharp attack transients, and also reduce sustain....

a flat pick attack lets the note "pop" a bit more vis-a-vis a more angled pick attack...

picking over the end of the fingerboard would result in a deeper, more mellow timbre....

all conducive to jazz tone(s) with an instrument with the Tele's inherent brightness and sustain....

Thanks, that's what I ment! I guess the tone knob thing really depends on the place you're playing. For smaller venues or playing at home I really like having the tone on full and having the volume backed off very slightly. When I play bigger venues though I find there's extra brightness added to my sound so then I roll the tone half way off.

I'll play jazz on just about anything, including an esquire. Lately, of course, I've been heavily into Django so it's been acoustic and archtops galore.

For a regular, straight ahead jazz gig, I would probably grab either my 62RI Tele w/ Vintage Vibe and Barden pickups (see below), or my 72RI Thinline into a SFVR with Celestions

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/Rumbletweed/Esquires/MilesGood3.jpg

Is that a classical style playing position you use? I find my tele is a bit uncomfortable to play sitting down because it lacks the right arm support of a bigger guitar. Maybe I should try classical position. Do you use a left foot lift?


yes, it is, but no footrest for me...i'm able to keep my feet flat on the floor and keep my back straight without it (i'm 6'3", and a lot of it is in my legs)

for me it's not even about comfort---it's about technique! i literally have to play like this, there's just some chord stretches and such that are a 100 times harder playing out of this position!

the crossed leg ken's sporting in the second pic is another good way to get the neck up a bit--while it looks just like he's relaxin'!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/Rumbletweed/Esquires/MilesGood3.jpg

that right there, is a slick lookin' tele. beauty!

the crossed leg ken's sporting in the second pic is another good way to get the neck up a bit--while it looks just like he's relaxin'!

Yeah, I am relaxing in that pic - just playing a Cm7 it looks like.
Reading gig though so there's always a 'bit' of anxiety.

Beautiful Tele w/the P-90!!!
(Is that the one you record those chord melodies with?)

yes, it is, but no footrest for me...i'm able to keep my feet flat on the floor and keep my back straight without it (i'm 6'3", and a lot of it is in my legs)

for me it's not even about comfort---it's about technique! i literally have to play like this, there's just some chord stretches and such that are a 100 times harder playing out of this position!

the crossed leg ken's sporting in the second pic is another good way to get the neck up a bit--while it looks just like he's relaxin'!

I just ordered a "neck up guitar support". I hope this will make my tele more comfortable to play sitting down. Otherwise I have been standing, or using another guitar.

i use my mahogany tele with alnico 2 single coils with the tone dimed for a nice jazz tone. i have a nice "jazzy" sounding amp and using a bit of compression helps

i use my mahogany tele with alnico 2 single coils with the tone dimed for a nice jazz tone. i have a nice "jazzy" sounding amp and using a bit of compression helps

What kind of amp?

I play soft jazz,mainly to myself but sometimes a few friends .I use a Tele with a SD alnico II neck pup .Beeeyewtifful jazz tones but keeps a brightness and clarity .I also play an upgraded Epi Dot with Tonerider Rocksongs.These are again alnico II .again good jazz tones .Off course all my guitars will rawk as well ,especially with a pedal .I usually play through a champ 600 modded but the good tones will come through most amps using a Dan CTO-1.As I play soft finger style I do need some clarity as well as that soft jazzy ,tone knob turned down sort of sound.Alnico II's hit the spot .I may get a nylon string solid like an Epi SST classic .I have always liked jazz on a nylon but my Spanish is too high a setting and too wide fret board to play easily .

i aspire to jazz guitar....
i play Tele....

+1
When I grow up I want to play jazz.

I just picked up a 1995 vintage of the Peavey Envoy 110 TransTube amp, and while getting acquainted with it, I’ve been looking for good tones for jazz. Here’s what I’ve come up with so far.

As I mentioned earlier, for jazz I use my solid body Logan Tele with a mahogany body and a P-90 pup in the neck. I play in both the middle and neck positions. The volume on the guitar is dimed out, the tone rolled back to about 6 or 7.

On the Envoy, I play through the Clean channel of course. I set the Volume at about 3, and activate the 6 dB switch. I boost the mids to about 7, and then go to town. To my ear, it’s a nice clean, warm sound that works well for what I do.

As far as technique (or what passes for “technique” in my playing), I use a different pick attack/a lighter touch and a different pick. My normal pick is a Fender Medium, but for jazz I use a pick I got from Bob Logan. I don’t know its exact gauge, but it’s thinner than the Fender.

I try to play jazz, lately with a...Jazzmaster (maybe the only guy in history to use that guitar for its intended purpose ;) ). It can get a trad jazz tone pretty easily, especially with the "rhythm circuit," but I like to screw around with nontraditional jazz tones, too. The crossover between country, rockabilly, jazz, and blues is too fruitful to restrict oneself to dark, warm tones, even when playing straight ahead. Granted, I only play for myself, so I don't have listeners' expectations to deal with.

+1
When I grow up I want to play jazz.

What constitutes being grown up. I feel old sometimes, but I am going to keep playing guitar for a lot longer than I have already played. Maybe for longer than I have already lived.

What kind of amp?

Ceriatone OTS its a Dumble/fuchs/two rock clone

What constitutes being grown up. I feel old sometimes, but I am going to keep playing guitar for a lot longer than I have already played. Maybe for longer than I have already lived.

I vaguely recall (older guy here, so the memory is fuzzy) seeing Paul McCartney in an interview some years back commenting about this subject. If I recall correctly, Sir Paul was in his late 50s at the time of the interview. He commented that when he was in his early 20s, he thought it would be "unseemly" to still be "shaking about" on stage at the "great old age of 30." Considering all the years of concert tours, he obviously had a change of perspective. His counsel to others concerned about longevity: "Don't sweat it, luv."

What about strings? I have flatwounds on my archtop, but have started using burnished nickel strings on my tele. I haven't made my mind up on then yet. I'm not sure about the twang factor because it's a new guitar and I haven't used anyother strings on it, but the nickel strings feel great (not as high tension as other 10's).

flats on everything for me. other's perception of my "twang" doesn't concern me much, but i think my guitars can still do a good duane eddy twang.

i use D'Addario XL-110s....flats might be a bit more "jazz correct", but they're nowhere near as versatile as round-wounds tonally speaking....

While I have used both of my Les Pauls for big band jazz, I prefer to use a real jazzbox. :wink:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/jazz451/Guitar%20Stuff%20Album/LP335.jpg


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/jazz451/AF220full.jpg

While I have used both of my Les Pauls for big band jazz, I prefer to use a real jazzbox. :wink:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/jazz451/Guitar%20Stuff%20Album/LP335.jpg


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/jazz451/AF220full.jpg

An ibanez archtop over a gibson (semi) hollow body? Are Ibanez guitars really that good?

An ibanez archtop over a gibson (semi) hollow body? Are Ibanez guitars really that good?

Well, that does need some explanation, doesn't it. :wink:


First of all, the ES-335 is a vintage one in a rare color. Second of all most jazz horn players are elderly with poor eyesight and even poorer sense of what they are bumping into. When break time comes, nothing will stop them from the rush to get a cookie before they are all gone.

Last thing I need is for one of them to knock my guitar off its stand and break the neck.

So.....

I bought the Ibanez for something to kick around with. It's an Artstar AF220. It is NOT one of those crappy Artcore guitars, it is a high-end Japanese made model with Super 58 pickups and faux tortoise shell binding. As it turns out, they are even rarer than vintage 335s.

That's why I use the Ibanez for jazz.

and joebob, lets face it, as cool as that that 335 is, there's just stuff that ibanez can do that it can't.

not better, just different.

i'm a hardcore tele jazz man, but when i sit in with the local big band, i bring an epiphone emperor regent. even amplified, a full hollow body has a different timbre to it's sound, and sometimes, that's what ya want.

Actually, the 335 gets excellent jazz tones on roundwounds, flats would be even better...and yes, the Ibanez wears flats.

Back to the topic of solid-body jazz, particularly a Tele...

I too use D'Addario XL-110s. If I relegated my solid-body mahogany to strictly playing jazz, I might try flats on it. But since jazz does not represent the bulk of what I do, I go with what the XL110s.

I've been thinking more lately about the pick (plectrum) aspect of jazz playing. I have already mentioned that my standard pick for many years has been the Fender celluloid tortoise shell medium (the classic "351" shape), but I've been using a thinner pick lately for jazz. What about the rest of you? What size, gauge and shape of pick do you use for jazz?

and joebob, lets face it, as cool as that that 335 is, there's just stuff that ibanez can do that it can't.


Like play baseball!

I use the 351 style pick as you do. When I was a lot younger and had aspirations about playing jazz (while playing in a horn-based rock band), I used a jazz pick for a couple of years. In retrospect it was a dumb idea. I get everything I need from the 351 style celluloid pick.

I've been thinking more lately about the pick (plectrum) aspect of jazz playing. I have already mentioned that my standard pick for many years has been the Fender celluloid tortoise shell medium (the classic "351" shape), but I've been using a thinner pick lately for jazz. What about the rest of you? What size, gauge and shape of pick do you use for jazz?

Gibson pure XH standard shape pick. I can't get along with a thin pick, but I don't like the super thick ones either. I like to just barely be able to flex a pick between my fingers and thumb. Almost no flex, but juuuuuuust a little.

I've been thinking more lately about the pick (plectrum) aspect of jazz playing. I have already mentioned that my standard pick for many years has been the Fender celluloid tortoise shell medium (the classic "351" shape), but I've been using a thinner pick lately for jazz. What about the rest of you? What size, gauge and shape of pick do you use for jazz?

i like the dunlop jazztones...really hooked on the 204's right now (i think that's the one, the blunt edged little guy...all the ones i have in the house have the logo worn off, but it's 204 or 205--one of 'em's blunt, one's pointed)

i like a smaller, very heavy, rounder edged pick for jazz. i do not want to hear any audible "click" when i hit the strings, and when i comp pick and fingers style, i want the pick to sound as much like my thumb as possible. the jazztones get me there.

i give ya big ups for being able to play with a thin pick--you know the joke about how to shut up a guitarist? change the punchline from "put sheet music in front of him" to "give him a thin pick" for me. i just play TERRIBLE with 'em!

there's a couple of keys to tele jazz tone, IMHO. a humbucker is not needed (heck, it's rumored "pure desmond" features ed on a pre modded tele...who's gonna knock that tone?)

the amp is crucial. some amps inherently have too much high end and/or bass, and not the midrange of a classic jazz tone. i used a roland cube 60 for quite a while, but once i found my polytone, i knew tone heaven, i keep the EQ dead flat o the amp and adjust the tone from the guitar.

the cat who suggested using the volume to adjust tone is DEAD ON. i never keep the volume at 100%. it allows to keep the tone knob a bit higher (i roll it about half off) so i get a softer sound and i don't lose definition.

what's a thread without pics, right? here i am rockin' the tele at a "hipper than i can really fit into" wine tasting a few months back...


Totally!

And when your touring the 'amp du jour' can be your undoing too, which is why i have another tele with a mini humbucker in the neck. I use two amps - a little Boogie .22 for smaller club gigs (Ive got 2 of them) and a Rivera R100 for the louder ones, but on the road it can be anything - Ive even had to pull a tone from a Marshall quad box for a jazz concert.
Im using Elixir 10's to 46 but with an 11 on E1.

As for the sound - if youre interested there's a couple of live recordings here

www.myspace.com/geoffh2 entitled Hughes,Robertson,Browne

I originally posted an itunes ref. but thats probably not kosher...



Little Black Jazz III's - but also the bigger purple 2mms as well. Cant go the thinner ones yet - they feel a bit 'toyish' - great for chomping though.

dunc '59 neck, lawrence l290 bridge, tro-w neck, gfs p-wood body, 5lbs 7ozs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/guitars/jazztele2.jpg

oh yeah, no strap buttons - not needed for jazzers. :cool:

Semi hollow tele and your golden

I try to play jazz, lately with a...Jazzmaster (maybe the only guy in history to use that guitar for its intended purpose ;) ). It can get a trad jazz tone pretty easily, especially with the "rhythm circuit," but I like to screw around with nontraditional jazz tones, too. The crossover between country, rockabilly, jazz, and blues is too fruitful to restrict oneself to dark, warm tones, even when playing straight ahead. Granted, I only play for myself, so I don't have listeners' expectations to deal with.

Not the only one, I use a MIM jazzmaster for about everything. 40 years ago used a Mosrite and have been searching for that tone when I picked up a guitar again. The Jazzmaster hit it spot on to my ears. Use lead circuit, tone and volume down, on a Gdec Jr on non overdrive british setting mostly, but will use jazz setting or acoustic setting on occation. a bit of gain, tone rolled off and some reverb or chorus depending on song. Only use a pick when playing Venture type music for fun.