A Composite Bridge Plate

I've got three compensated saddles, but nothing to screw them to, and a guitar that needs to be top loaded by necessity because it's hollow. So I'm making a composite bridge plate. It'll be a "modern" style plate because I always cut my fingers strumming like Elvis on the old-skool ones :mrgreen:.

So first up, a right angle is needed as a mold. I got some 16mm MDF and double sided taped a flat 3mm piece of perspex off cut on it.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/105.jpg

Perspex is great because the resulting "finish" it makes when the molding is pulled out is like a mirror. The perspex gets two coats of mold release wax wiped on and polished off with a paper towel.

Then, a "top mold" is needed to jam down on top, compressing the composite, and holding the right angle at 90 degrees. It's just two pieces of 16mm MDF scrap.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/106.jpg

Here's the two of them together. The bridge plate will be sandwiched in the middle there.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/107.jpg

Next, it's time to cut out some cloth. For this bridge plate, I want a final thickness the same as the Gotoh plates, which are 3mm.

Here are two layers of 6oz twill for the top and bottom because it looks purdy, and three layers of 14oz biaxial (not woven) cloth for strength.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/108.jpg

And here's two pieces of 0.5mm 6061 alloy that have been scuffed up so the epoxy can bond to them.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/109.jpg

I didn't take any picture of the next part because epoxy and cameras don't mix well. It went, twill, biax, al, biax, al, biax, twill. With a 75:100 resin to cloth ratio (not aerospace or anything special ... just a guitar!).

Then the whole thing is clamped tight. Some polyethylene clingfilm is used to stop the MDF becoming part of the plate.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/110.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/111.jpg

That was yesterday afternoon. Today, it's cured.

The top mold is taken off leaving the plate stuck to the perspex.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/113.jpg

Then it's wrenched off the perspex (trying not to snap the perspex). You can see the nice finish the top of the plate gets from the mirror smooth mold.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/115.jpg

Now I need to sort out some way of cutting the plates out (there's enough for three there) and routing the pickup hole. That'll be part two.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/114.jpg

Should look nice 5 ply with the two 0.5mm metal stripes in there. It's rather strong :shock:.

Whaaaat ????!!!??? This ones gona be really cool or something else completely (no offense). Can't wait ! Whats the guitar look like? Please post more pics.

Excellent! You are a wizard with the fancy materials - looking forward to seeing the rest of the process.

Will be interesting to see how the bridge performs in terms of sustain! Looks awesome!

I wonder how it will sound?

You can tweek it quite a bit making it more rigid and change the tone?

Looks great. I've got plans to use CF for parts later on. Looking forward to see how it works out for you.

I am very interested to see how this turns out.

I don't want to discourage but my main concern is that carbon fiber is very good at absorbing shock. I would worry about it killing sustain.

Whether it works or not- you get a big thumbs up from me for being creative and having the workmanship skills to create such a piece. It isn't always about the final product but what we can learn from the process is important. Way to be innovative!

Nice. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Nice work Nick.
I have no idea what you are talking about half the time but I always enjoy your posts.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

The bridge is going on this.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/116.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/117.jpg

That's ounces!

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/118.jpg

I have no idea what the bridge plate will sound like, although CF is very, very resonant. Natural sustain is related to the ability of a material to hold energy (stiffness) ... and CF has that in buckets, being the second strongest thing after Zylon.

It's all a big mystery until it's plugged in (I'm winding a plain old single coil bridge pickup today) what it'll sound like. Part of the fun. Gonna be an esquire at first. Might pop a P90 in the neck.

Then it'll have to be stripped down, sanded back with 400 and given a coat of polyurethane. It's a bit rough at the moment with the glue joints all gummy 'n stuff. The whole thing's hollow - even the neck.

Way cool Nick!!! where did you learn to do that? and where can you get the materials? Really cool. John

The bridge is going on this.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/116.jpg


I have no idea what the bridge plate will sound like, although CF is very, very resonant. Natural sustain is related to the ability of a material to hold energy (stiffness) ... and CF has that in buckets, being the second strongest thing after Zylon.

It's all a big mystery until it's plugged in (I'm winding a plain old single coil bridge pickup today) what it'll sound like. Part of the fun. Gonna be an esquire at first. Might pop a P90 in the neck.

Then it'll have to be stripped down, sanded back with 400 and given a coat of polyurethane. It's a bit rough at the moment with the glue joints all gummy 'n stuff. The whole thing's hollow - even the neck.

:shock:
That is awesome!

Well I had no idea that CF was resonant. Good info. What is the core of the body made of? You have to post sound clips. I can't wait :grin:

CF holds a special place in the heart of a car guy.

Way cool Nick!!! where did you learn to do that? and where can you get the materials? Really cool. John

Like Buckocaster, I too make it up as I go along. :mrgreen: The materials are a tin of epoxy resin and hardener and a roll of carbon cloth ... companies that supply the racing, nautical and aerospace industries carry all the stuff needed. Everything else, well, ya gotta build it yourself. I've made tools to make tools to make tools ... yep, to make tools. That 9.5" radius fretboard did not come easily :mad::lol:.


That is awesome!

Well I had no idea that CF was resonant. Good info. What is the core of the body made of? You have to post sound clips. I can't wait :grin:

CF holds a special place in the heart of a car guy.

The core of the body is air! If you don't count the annoying bit of crap that's rattling around in there. I'll get it out when I cut the pickup hole. The "walls" are 1.8mm thick (about 2.3mm in the neck).

Someday I'd like to do a monocoque chasis.

Got it cut out. Camera lens is fisheyeing it so it looks unsquare, but it ain't.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0030.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0035.jpg

I like the "ply" of the Ca/Al/Ca/Al/Ca. Funny how you can make something so strong where all the bits were cut out with a pair of old blunt scissors...

Here's the diamond blade "Cutterouterer" thingy. Thanks to Marty up there in Alberta for the idea. Works a treat for cutting out things that really don't take too well to being cut. That diamond wheel goes through stuff like Vader's Light Sabre.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0027.jpg

Action shot (okay, it's a set up - I can't cut and photograph at once). The water bottle to the left is the vacuum cleaner inlet to suck the dust away. Works great, but I still wear a dust filter respirator.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0029.jpg

Just got to round the edges, cut out the pup hole and drill 9 holes in the end for the strings 'n saddles - and some to screw it to the body.

Wow! That's extremely cool. Can you adjust the relief on that neck, or is it too stiff? Or did you take care of that in the mold somehow?

Awesome! and thank you sooo much for calling the 6061 'alloy' instead of aluminum (wich should really be aluminium)
all Americans repeat after me ; a-lu-mi-ni-um

Cheers,Olaf

Awesome! and thank you sooo much for calling the 6061 'alloy' instead of aluminum (wich should really be aluminium)
all Americans repeat after me ; a-lu-mi-ni-um

Cheers,Olaf

Hey Olaf,

it actually appears to be called Aluminum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum) at the other side of the big pond.

From the Wikipedia entry:
Present-day spelling

Most countries spell aluminium with an i before -um. In the United States, the spelling aluminium is largely unknown, and the spelling aluminum predominates.[46][47] The Canadian Oxford Dictionary prefers aluminum, whereas the Australian Macquarie Dictionary prefers aluminium.

The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both.[48] IUPAC officially prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although several IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum.[49]

groeten!
Tuuur

What gauge of Aluminum sheet did you use for the Al plies? Very cool. Did you use a brakepress to form the aluminum sheets, or just hand bend over a square-edged surface? The Asus computer I am typing this on is made of a lot of CF, and I love the look. When it dies, maybe I'll make it into a Cigar-box guitar (Laptop guitar). But I hope that doesn't happen for a very long time, though.

I'm sure Nick knows this already, but anyone working with carbon fiber (okay, non-US pals: "fibre") needs to be extremely careful not to inhale its particles or to get them in your skin. There is far too little information on the Internet about this. Nick mentions dust collection and a face mask but I think some more explanation is called far.

Essentially, a carbon fiber is a very light, thin, stiff fiber - in effect, a weightless micro-needle. It can easily lodge in your skin, where it can cause irritation similar to what you'd get from fiberglass. Worse, cutting or drilling it can result in airborne particles which can get into your eyes or, worst of all, your lungs.

I know a fellow in the archery business who has developed severe lung problems from cutting carbon fiber arrow shafts. He now has only a quarter of his lung capacity left. It's scary to see him struggle to breathe.

I'm no expert on this stuff, not an MD, and don't want to frighten anyone, but urge anybody thinking about building with carbon fiber to regard it the same way as they would asbestos. Cut it under water if you can, use adequate breathing and eye protection and dust control. Work outside if possible. And if anyone here has experience with these safety issues, please correct or expand on what I've written.

I worked with CF filled nylon in an injection molding shop I would say it more like working fiber glass then asbestos.You will admage your lungs if you inhale alot of dust but I dont think theres that cancer risk.

While CF's not carcinogenic, it's not broken down by the body, so long-term exposure to it produces a build up in the lungs, effectively causing a 'permanent bronchitis'. A guy I used to know worked for a couple of F1 teams in their composite shops, and he used to tell me about how they used external air supplied 'space suits' (his description) when cutting the cloth and machining the completed parts. I guess if you're only working with CF occasionally you can get away with less vigorous precautions, but it's a consideration if you're working CF regularly...

... G

Wow! That's extremely cool. Can you adjust the relief on that neck, or is it too stiff? Or did you take care of that in the mold somehow?

There's no truss rod, but there is a sort-of "truss". Because the fretboard is only 1mm thick, cutting the fret slots turns it into something a lot like a loaf of sliced bread. So there's a 2mm x 8mm bar running the length of the fretboard.

Truss rods are there mainly because wood is a very temperamental material. Carbon doesn't get affected by the weather. I'll put 9s and 13s on it and see what happens though.

Awesome! and thank you sooo much for calling the 6061 'alloy' instead of aluminum (wich should really be aluminium)
all Americans repeat after me ; a-lu-mi-ni-um

Cheers,Olaf

To-may-toe, Tom-ah-toe :lol: 6061 is about 95% Aloooooooominum and a bit of magnesium with sprinklings of a few other metals.

What gauge of Aluminum sheet did you use for the Al plies? Very cool. Did you use a brakepress to form the aluminum sheets, or just hand bend over a square-edged surface? The Asus computer I am typing this on is made of a lot of CF, and I love the look. When it dies, maybe I'll make it into a Cigar-box guitar (Laptop guitar). But I hope that doesn't happen for a very long time, though.

0.5mm. Cut them out with a pair of scissors and bent 'em round a piece of MDF! I did take the hammer to them though, to get the bend to be a bit less-rounded.

I'm sure Nick knows this already, but anyone working with carbon fiber (okay, non-US pals: "fibre") needs to be extremely careful...

Very true. I'm also concerned about this and have researched it quite a bit. As far as I can tell, all of the scientific info says CF is bad, but it ain't asbestos.

But one should never breathe in particles in any circumstance!

I don't breathe (safer) fiberglass dust either. Whenever there's dust of any sort I wear a form fitting 3M mask, and when there's organic vapours, I wear a respirator.

I worked with CF filled nylon in an injection molding shop I would say it more like working fiber glass then asbestos.You will admage your lungs if you inhale alot of dust but I dont think theres that cancer risk.

While CF's not carcinogenic, it's not broken down by the body, so long-term exposure to it produces a build up in the lungs, effectively causing a 'permanent bronchitis'. A guy I used to know worked for a couple of F1 teams in their composite shops, and he used to tell me about how they used external air supplied 'space suits' (his description) when cutting the cloth and machining the completed parts. I guess if you're only working with CF occasionally you can get away with less vigorous precautions, but it's a consideration if you're working CF regularly...

... G

This is what I have read also. The fibers are too big to cause fibrosis, but they are not rejected by the body. Basically, it's best not to breathe them in.

Wood dust will also damage your lungs with long term exposure.

Although, there is a bit of confusion with regard to Carbon Nanofibers. Those little suckers are BAD. Media often get confused and/or like to breed fear ... fear sells like hotcakes.

What, exactly, is that cutterouter thing? and where can I get one? I don't remember seeing one being sold, but now I'll have to keep my eyes open for it.

Extremely cool guitar, and excellent workmanship!

Nick - you're just one crazy man!

Yes you are!

http://www.backwaterpartymusic.com/%20buttercaster/fenwick.jpg

I was just about to say the same thing!

What, exactly, is that cutterouter thing? and where can I get one? I don't remember seeing one being sold, but now I'll have to keep my eyes open for it.

Extremely cool guitar, and excellent workmanship!

The CutterRouterer? It's kinda like a router table, but except it has a cutter and it's for cuttering out things, like a routerer.

I don't know if you can buy them. I made that by sticking a dremel extension unit to the side of a height-adjustable slider.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0043.jpg

When cutting CF, any dust that sneaks past the vacuum inlet has a bad habit of getting into electric motors and making them go fizzzzzzzz, POP! So the dremel motor hangs from the other side of the underside of the table. You can see from the black dust stain (I wipe the table down with a damp cloth afterwards) that the vacuum pulls the dust one way.

There's a wingnut on the inside to do large (>1cm) adjustments, but the collet can be loosened and the blade can be raised/lowered for <1mm adjustments.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0044.jpg

That diamond blade has a 0.02" kerf, so very little material is actually removed. It'd be nice to have a laser in its place, but this fella's wallet ain't that bulging.

Nick - you're just one crazy man!

Yes you are!

http://www.backwaterpartymusic.com/%20buttercaster/fenwick.jpg

I was just about to say the same thing!

It's all your fault, Bucko. You and that Buttercaster thread a few years ago. :mrgreen:

Nearly finished the bridge plate. I made a template from MDF and then ran this thing around the inside of it.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0039.jpg

Again, another dremel extension but this time it goes in a holder with a vacuum extractor to pull the dust out of the work piece. It has a 2.8mm tungsten carbide cutter (couldn't find a diamond one :sad:). It eats through the 3mm plate reluctantly - but that's the aluminium more than anything.

Then I drilled the pickup holes.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0042.jpg

Now we have to decide on a string spread. I think it's 2.125", but this is a measure thrice drill once situation.

I think if you could mass-produce these, you'd have a winner.
I know i'd like to try one and guess many more on TDPRI already secretly fantasized some build with a bridge like that into the mix ;o)

All word-phun unintended, that was for laughs before.


cheers,Olaf

I think if you could mass-produce these, you'd have a winner.
I know i'd like to try one and guess many more on TDPRI already secretly fantasized some build with a bridge like that into the mix ;o)

All word-phun unintended, that was for laughs before.


cheers,Olaf

I have far too short a span of attention for mass production :wink:. It's lucky if I can even manage to finish a project, let alone do anything twice. :lol:

All wound and ready to go ... needs some leads though. Low output: 4.1K.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0045.jpg

It's not going to be potted, so if it's a bit weak, I'll whack it back on the winder and add a couple thousand more turns.

I've been getting great, clear tones from very low output humbuckers (3.6K). Maybe it's just a phase... :shock:

Nice work.

I did a CF bridge plate, neckplate etc for this little fella.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3479078557_f411ed1a72.jpg

I bonded it up from a piece of 1.8mm thick flat plate and it works a treat. Earths well and has sustain by the bucket load.

I'd love to do a full CF guitar one day but it wont be a traditional tele I don't think.

Here's some of the parts I did (sorry rubbish phone pic)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3412568900_2ea8aa5a10.jpg

I did a CF bridge plate, neckplate etc for this little fella.


:cool: I like that binding too. Looks like it glows.

There's no binding on that, it's loads of flip tone paint and buckets of lacquer and polish.

Hey Olaf,

it actually appears to be called Aluminum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum) at the other side of the big pond.

From the Wikipedia entry:


groeten!
Tuuur

Hey tuuur,

kzie het nu pas, haha! ik stoor me er niet aan hoor ;o)

Guess for arguments sake you could call it by its chemical name AL
So to stop further arguments tomato/ thumayto / aluminum/ aluminium

let's just cal it Al :mrgreen:

Did you mean alumium?

Nice work.

I did a CF bridge plate, neckplate etc for this little fella.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3479078557_f411ed1a72.jpg

I bonded it up from a piece of 1.8mm thick flat plate and it works a treat. Earths well and has sustain by the bucket load.

I'd love to do a full CF guitar one day but it wont be a traditional tele I don't think.

Here's some of the parts I did (sorry rubbish phone pic)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3412568900_2ea8aa5a10.jpg Is it just me or the camera angle ? Your bridge looks to be askew in relation to the neck .

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0042.jpg

Now we have to decide on a string spread. I think it's 2.125", but this is a measure thrice drill once situation.

Nice work!

What type and model of saddles do you want to use, or do you want to outfit each of the bridge plates you're making with different types? Do you want to load the strings through the body, or top load them through the bridge lip? Did you make the plate long enough to be capable of using the 24mm long block saddles like the Gotoh and the MIM Standard?

................. Natural sustain is related to the ability of a material to hold energy (stiffness) ... and CF has that in buckets, being the second strongest thing after Zylon.

..................

Just to be clear sustain is related to the rate at which energy is lost from the string and is a product of the attack and decay of the note. The body material effects decay as sound energy is lost to the body via the bridge and stopped string at the nut or fret. The relationship to stiffness is one that is allied to mass per unit volume or in the case of a string mass per unit length, and is closely related to Youngs modulus. Energy is lost from the string in many other ways.

Sustain in the manner you are talking about is related to the body materials ability to reflect not hold energy. The body material (and all other materials of the instrument) play a large role in colouring the timbre of the note as different frequencies are reflected and altered in different ways depending on the properties of the materials. The higher harmonics or partials of the note are the ones that are effected the most and are what gives each instrument it's unique tone or timbre assuming all other things being equal..

Nice work on the hardware by the way..

That guitar looks amazing Nick. I'll be back in Aus in September, what was your adress again? And which windows do you leave unlocked?

Love to check it out sometime. I wonder if there's enough NSW-ians for a TDPRI meetup and jam.

Is it just me or the camera angle ? Your bridge looks to be askew in relation to the neck .

It must be one of the two. It's spot on square, I checked everything more that a couple of times when I built it (first timers paranoia)

J... Youngs modulus....

Undoubtably referring to the the findings of Angus and Malcolm Young in the late 20th century; investigation of sustainability using materials such as Fosters and cannabis under pressure over long durations. :)

I want a CF tele so bad right now...
And a CF SG.
And a CF archtop.

Undoubtably referring to the the findings of Angus and Malcolm Young in the late 20th century; investigation of sustainability using materials such as Fosters and cannabis under pressure over long durations. :)

That maybe the case, I'm not sure because I don't understand what you are driving at.:wink:

All that said, Youngs modulus and the physics behind the elastic behavoir of materials is at the root of nearly all musical acoustics as well as other material sciences.

That maybe the case, I'm not sure because I don't understand what you are driving at.:wink:

All that said, Youngs modulus and the physics behind the elastic behavoir of materials is at the root of nearly all musical acoustics as well as other material sciences.

Although Thomas Young's work has some small bearing on the tonal characteristics of this guitar, Michael Faraday's and Nikola Tesla's work is excedingly more important. :mrgreen::wink:

Although Thomas Young's work has some small bearing on the tonal characteristics of this guitar, Michael Faraday's and Nikola Tesla's work is excedingly more important. :mrgreen::wink:

Is it about skin depth or elasticity?

The point of my earlier post is that perhaps the fundamental property is sorted out by a scientific view, but "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". In the absence of real instrumentation and valid data science is guesswork and opinion.

Is it about skin depth or elasticity?

The point of my earlier post is that perhaps the fundamental property is sorted out by a scientific view, but "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". In the absence of real instrumentation and valid data science is guesswork and opinion.

Your earlier post was right on the money, Mojo. :grin: Even though this guitar has no wood in it, it's still an electric guitar.

...Even though this guitar has no wood in it, it's still an electric guitar.
That's really interesting - I have a couple of Parkers and they are amazing instruments; the CF wrapped necks provide an amazing amount of rigidity and they are other worldly light. I can't imagine what an all CF guitar feels like - that would be cool to check out.

Nice work!

What type and model of saddles do you want to use, or do you want to outfit each of the bridge plates you're making with different types? Do you want to load the strings through the body, or top load them through the bridge lip? Did you make the plate long enough to be capable of using the 24mm long block saddles like the Gotoh and the MIM Standard?

Compensated brass from Stew Mac for the princly sum of $14.

The next plate will probably be built for a Graphtech Ghost MIDI system.

Strings have to be top loaded because there's a 1.8mm back plate and a 1.8mm soundboard ... and nothing in the middle but air.

The plate's dimensions are losely based on the Gotoh 6 saddle.

That guitar looks amazing Nick. I'll be back in Aus in September, what was your adress again? And which windows do you leave unlocked?

Love to check it out sometime. I wonder if there's enough NSW-ians for a TDPRI meetup and jam.

I'm 1.8km off being a Queenslander ... and the door is almost never locked! I have a sharp-witted Galah who says the most ridiculous things any burglers will be instantly incapacitated with laughter and then pecked to pieces.

Now we have to decide on a string spread. I think it's 2.125", but this is a measure thrice drill once situation.
What type and model of saddles do you want to use, or do you want to outfit each of the bridge plates you're making with different types? Do you want to load the strings through the body, or top load them through the bridge lip? Did you make the plate long enough to be capable of using the 24mm long block saddles like the Gotoh and the MIM Standard?
Compensated brass from Stew Mac for the princly sum of $14.

The next plate will probably be built for a Graphtech Ghost MIDI system.

Strings have to be top loaded because there's a 1.8mm back plate and a 1.8mm soundboard ... and nothing in the middle but air.

The plate's dimensions are losely based on the Gotoh 6 saddle.

Unless Stew Mac has changed the specs on those saddles from what they were when I bought some a couple of years ago, that 2.125" string spread (54mm, which gives you a 10.8mm string spacing) is appropriate. You'll probably to need to remove a little material from and shape the the Stew Mac saddle ends a little to get them to fit together better.

If your plates are as long as the modern Gotoh, they are long enough to support any of the Tele saddle types I've seen. And with that length, you'll need longer intonation adjustment screws for those Stew Mac saddles, than what they ship with. Possibly longer springs as well.

And with that length, you'll need longer intonation adjustment screws for those Stew Mac saddles, than what they ship with. Possibly longer springs as well.

...or a bridge pickup that's a half inch further forward than standard! I could say I meant it that way but -- Oops! :mrgreen: It's a hollow esquire, so the mellowing of the tone (with the pup going forward a touch) might suit.

...or a bridge pickup that's a half inch further forward than standard! I could say I meant it that way but -- Oops! :mrgreen: It's a hollow esquire, so the mellowing of the tone (with the pup going forward a touch) might suit.

I had a bridge plate set closer to the neck like that, and the Tele had a quacky tone to it I didn't like. My reason for that nonstandard bridge position was trying to make use of the existing bridge humbucker rout position for a Tele style single coil. After I discovered the quacky tone and researched the potential issues (with a little help from Terry Downs), I decided to move and reshape the bridge pickup rout to get the bridge single coil the correct distance from the saddle string end. The Tele lost that annoying quackiness and sounded much better to me then.

Nick, your carbon parts are amazing, great work.

I had a bridge plate set closer to the neck like that, and the Tele had a quacky tone to it I didn't like. My reason for that nonstandard bridge position was trying to make use of the existing bridge humbucker rout position for a Tele style single coil. After I discovered the quacky tone and researched the potential issues (with a little help from Terry Downs), I decided to move and reshape the bridge pickup rout to get the bridge single coil the correct distance from the saddle string end. The Tele lost that annoying quackiness and sounded much better to me then.

Hmmmmm, QUACK!

http://www.freefoto.com/images/01/08/01_08_52---Duck_web.jpg

Yee ghads - will I sound like John Mayer?! :mrgreen:

Actually, I remember that Terry did some stuff on pup positioning. I caught the bottom end of it as it went flying over my head.

I'm gonna rout for it anyway ... and just cry later. :shock::cry:

Yegbert - when intonated (roughly by ear, the missus has the tuner at her studio :mad:), I've got 1.15" from the middle of the saddle to the start of the pickup hole on the little e string. What's "usual"?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0084.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0087.jpg

Nick, your carbon parts are amazing, great work.

Thanks, mate - so is your neck.

Although Thomas Young's work has some small bearing on the tonal characteristics of this guitar, Michael Faraday's and Nikola Tesla's work is excedingly more important. :mrgreen::wink:

Did they teach you this because it is not correct.:wink:

Natural sustain is related to the ability of a material to hold energy (stiffness)

Yegbert - when intonated (roughly by ear, the missus has the tuner at her studio :mad:), I've got 1.15" from the middle of the saddle to the start of the pickup hole on the little e string. What's "usual"?

As measured along the length of the string, my Teles average .75". The Tele that I had this problem on is now .85", but it was .5" farther away which would have placed it at around 1.35".

Here's (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/97437-science-quack.html) an old thread with some insights from Terry Downs on out of phase sounds, here's (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech/85040-every-tried-stunt-tele-special.html) an old thread with some pics and info about my Tele with that problem.

As measured along the length of the string, my Teles average .75". The Tele that I had this problem on is now .85", but it was .5" farther away which would have placed it at around 1.35".

Here's (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/97437-science-quack.html) an old thread with some insights from Terry Downs on out of phase sounds, here's (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech/85040-every-tried-stunt-tele-special.html) an old thread with some pics and info about my Tele with that problem.

Thanks, mate! I'll rout for this distance and see how it sounds. To be honest, I'm not really aiming for the Tele twang ... it was originally going to have a ToM and a bridge HB :shock::mrgreen:, but I didn't put enough neck angle in the guitar. A touch of quack might be quite nice...

Sounds awesome. Now it's a matter of stripping it right back with some 400 grit and spraying some polyurethane!

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0095.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0100.jpg

TIP: if you want to preserve your sanity, don't ever try to wire an entire guitar through the pickup hole :shock:.

Specs:

Body Carbon Fiber Hollow, parallel bracing
Neck Carbon Fiber, Modern C Shape, fully hollow, no trussrod, 10 degree headstock angle
Fingerboard Carbon Fiber, 9.5” Radius, 1.5 degree angle
No. of Frets 22, 0.095" x 0.045"
Pickup Handwound 42AWG to 4.1K, AlNiCo 2 poles
Controls 500K Volume, 500K Tone, 0.020 microfarad cap.
Bridge Carbon/Alloy Composite with 3 Brass saddles.
Machine Heads Gotoh 510 Minis
Scale Length 25.5”
Width at Nut 1.6875”
Nut Bone
Strings D'Addario 10s
Weight 4.3 pounds

It's already in pieces, so I'll do a recording when it's finished, finished. Might have one of my active pickups in it by then. I've just this minute realised I forgot the strap buttons :mrgreen:.

Dude! that thing is insane! INSANE I TELL YOU!
But why use a bone nut on a all carb. guitar?

now get some better knobs, these don't do it justice...

congratz!

edit ; actually, since it's black, brass knobs would look nice and complement the saddles.
whilst your at it ... a nut in that same fashion would rock 2!!!!

not dissin here, just think it would look "complete" with brass knobs and nut ;o)

The bone nut? I get them for free when they empty the ash from the local crematorium. Kneecaps have the best tone, come pre-radiused, and seem reluctant to burn.

heh heh heh :wink:

Bone's good for nuts.

Amazing work and conception, can't wait to hear what it sounds like!

Too awesome! I can't wait to hear it & see it finished-finished. :cool: Def my fave build on here thus far.

Too cool.

Absolutely the bad-ass Esquire build of the year. It's a great look the way it is, seems like a shame to paint it!

Thanks guys. I'm about to start another. :grin: This time I'm thinking two P90s and a hardtail strat bridge ... 24.75" scale (23 frets), double f-holes, white binding.

Too cool.

Absolutely the bad-ass Esquire build of the year. It's a great look the way it is, seems like a shame to paint it!

Thanks, Ricky. The paint is 2-pack clear polyurethane, same as on your car. If you look closely, the body glue joint is visible, where the binding would be. It needs to be sanded flat (the glue squeezes out when the soundboard is attached). The poly has UV stabilizers in it, so it forms a protective coat as well as a great shine.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/nickjdobbie/IMG_0097.jpg

So how does it sound? Playability?

So how does it sound? Playability?

I find it almost impossible to explain tone with words, especially when the pickup and the amp (and player) have so much influence. So I've stolen a line from another carbon guitar's blurb, "It is clear, rich and resonant with a treble that rings with crystalline clarity and a bass that is warm without being muddy." :mrgreen:

It sounds very much like a wooden guitar, except a little different. A recording is worth a thousand words; playing it, a million.

Playability - now this is a little bit easier. It plays like any well setup guitar. The action is nice, the nut cut properly and the frets are flat. It's almost unnaturally light though, I think another pound would balance the next one better - but that pound will not come from the carbon, because it's already over-engineered (and carbon is very expensive). There is zero flex in the neck. I'm thinking a half pound brass block behind the rear strap button. It'll still be under 5 pounds though.

The tuning is so stable I can almost throw the tuner away. But that stands to reason because it's not affected by temperature and humidity.

My wooden guitars now feel a little dull and lifeless :sad:.