Why does my guitar sound good @ home but not at church??

Dialed in a great sound at home with my Strat, effects and Bassman clone at home last week. At rehearsal for the Saturday evening service, the Strat sounded lackluster in the sanctuary. So, I switched to a Washburn HB35 for the set that evening.

Sunday morning (today) we had a different bassist. It ended up that my Les Paul Studio sounded best. I just don't get it. I was all set to sell the Lester last week because it is uninspiring at home.

Now, I'm talking about the stage mix, disregarding the sound crew and PA in a 700 seat auditorium. Is there any way to nail down this dynamic without bringing a dozen different guitars and a dozen different amps to sort through? Is there a name for this? I've been playing since 1963 and this always baffles me.

I can't get through an hour of practicing with the same amp and guitar in the same room without having to tweak the knobs and wondering why it sounds different all the time. Of course, every different room you play in sounds different and you get different sounds with different numbers of people in them.

One thought though, are you warming up the amp before you play?

Every room sounds different. I've NEVER gotten the same sound from the same settings at a gig versus in the garage or basement, or even at a gig one place then a gig somewhere else!

Just about the only thing you can do is learn how to tweak the amp.

Tim

I've encountered some rooms that I cannot get a good sound in no matter what I use because I've tried serveral guitar/amp combinations with all kind of settings test before I came to that conclution. Now when I play there I just take whatever, fire it up, grin and bear it. Somehow when I came to the realization in that paticular place that the sound is just bad, I was able to quit fighting it and just lay back an enjoy it. Plate

Just imagine the variables -
humidity - affects the guitar, certainly, but more probably affects the speaker
air pressure
quality of power
reverberance (sp?) of the room
size of the room
the nut attaching the player to the guitar

and probably about a zillion others
No wonder they don't sound the same at home and on the gig

I used to head to church really early to work with the sound guy and get "that sound". Just play around with it in the actual sanctuary.

Its going to happen. As time goes on though, somehow it irons itself out a little, but its never perfect. Sometimes at church my tone is better then I have ever heard it at home. The volume you are running your amp at can affect your perception of your "tone".

I wasn't fully happy with the tone I was getting with my Telecaster and DRRI at church for awhile. I recently got a Weber Mini Mass attenuator that gave me the ability to get the tubes working a bit more and at the same time bring the volume down to the level needed in the sanctuary/worship service. I am very pleased with my tone now. You may want to give an attenuator a try. Tube amps just seem to sound best at their sweet spot which many times may be too loud for the venue.

I recently took my 2-12" cab to a friends garage to jam a little and I couldn't get a good sound for the life of me out of my equipment. His JCM900 1/2 stack and ESP single cutaway sounded smooth at butter. My amp and cab sounded like nails on a chalkboard. It took about 20 minutes of fiddling with my amp settings to get a decent sound out.

I brought the amp back home with thoes settings and I couldn't stand the tone. Dead and lifeless. So I started keeping a small notepad with settings listed for the different places I setup so I will know where to set my gear at.

J:

don't forget the two most important factors in the tone equation... your ears

Yes, it's all in the ears. This was always a struggle until our church refurbished the stage area. When this was done, 2 trap doors were cut out to the back of the stage and amp "boxes" with sound proof material on the walls were created under the stage with dedicated lines to mic the amps. The stage surface is about 3.5 ft above the actual floor so there is plenty of room for my BDR. We put fans in there as well to manage the temp. All in all this has yielded some consistency and much easier for the sound guys.

Nobody mentioned the difference between playing by yourself in a quiet room and then jamming with a band at very different volumes.

I'm always amazed when I come home from Church and my amp is 3x louder than I normally have it.

Yes, it's all in the ears. This was always a struggle until our church refurbished the stage area. When this was done, 2 trap doors were cut out to the back of the stage and amp "boxes" with sound proof material on the walls were created under the stage with dedicated lines to mic the amps. The stage surface is about 3.5 ft above the actual floor so there is plenty of room for my BDR. We put fans in there as well to manage the temp. All in all this has yielded some consistency and much easier for the sound guys.

Wow...:shock:

I'm amazed that none of you thought of it, but the real Problem is, that you didn't play a TELECASTER!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously my 30 watt Orange sounds great at home, but it always sounds better with a band. Think it has to do with the frequencies. If some are missing in your band mix it sounds hollow, if there is too much of one the sound turns muddy. Probably your Paula just fits in better than your strat.
Also if your band has keys and/or another guitar, you must adjust the tone and divide the registers among you.

Nobody mentioned the difference between playing by yourself in a quiet room and then jamming with a band at very different volumes.

I'm always amazed when I come home from Church and my amp is 3x louder than I normally have it.



ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

This is the same problem that plagues guys who use digital multi-effects units. You spend an hour nailing some great tones alone at home and then scratch your head as to why it sounds like dogmeat with the band.

It's all about context.

You need to get good at dialing in the right sound, on the spot, when you're playing in the context of the group and the space your playing in.

God hates your tone.:mrgreen:

I've played in a lot of church type settings and I've come to the realization that in those situations my role as the electric guitar player - when not leading - is usually to "color" a picture that is outlined by the leader and the other musicians I am playing with. Knowing the leaders style and the other musicians that I will be playing with really helps me to come up with a sound that blends well. While I may come up with a sound that I think is great on my own, once the other parts are added it doesn't always sound the same. I always try to keep an open mind while playing and let my ears tell me what a particular song needs in each instance. The way I play a song can constantly change depending on who I am playing with.

Wow, so many different variables here, and so hard to nail em all down.

The house I just moved out of: My bedroom was dead tonally. I was never happy with the tones I got in there. At church, I could get some really good tones. At a practice studio, I got really great tones. At a college amphitheater we play at once a year, the tone is unbelievable!

But the variances: Humidity, temperature, body masses, band members, PA, etc, just keep things from being static, and constantly keeps everything dynamic.

Oh well! I guess if we didnt twist knobs every now and then, we'd get bored........

Some great advice here for sure. I too have had the same experiences with tone changes. I've nailed some great tones at church then got home to play and it didn't sound as good. The room ambiance makes a huge difference to your tone.

TIM ARMSTRONG nailed it when he said " Just about the only thing you can do is learn how to tweak the amp."

This is the best advice because your tone will always need tweaking. It will even change to make it mix with the worship leader and other players.

JP

When you talk about stage mix, do you mean what's coming back through the monitors, or just what you hear? I try to work out all my settings at home, and keep things pretty consistent, and just stick a mike in front of the amp. No matter what I'm hearing standing next to it, I can tell that what's coming back through the monitors is pretty much what I expected. The only adjustment I make is to bump the volume up a little to allow me to get louder if necessary - just can't play that loud at home - and dial back the reverb because the room provides plenty of ambience itself.

I have had the same observations noted above by many of you. I think that one reason your tone at at home is different is that you are usually playing by yourself - not only at (probably lower volumes) but I think (at least for me) the tone that you want for a group is different than you want for yourself only (excluding volume factor on tone). I find that I usally want more treble playing in a group - too cut through the mix. Also what chord you play makes a difference (1st fret or 13th fret.). I also play less (3 note chords) with a group than by myself.

Had to chime in on this one.(little late though) The tone that sounds great by yourself will always need to be tweaked for a band setting. I think it's because by yourself, you want to hear a nice, full and well balanced tone. When you play with other instruments, unless they are divided tonally, they are all competing for a lot of the same frequncy range. This results in a somewhat muddy and less defined presence. When a bass player is there, for instance, you would be better served to cut the low end and let the bass fill that frequncy range. Certain frequencies can be cut where other instruments dominate and very few frequencies should be boosted but, some upper mids can be, to make your guitar jump out a little. When you get your guitar sounding good with full band, check out what it sounds like without others playing and remember that sound. When you get home, work on shaping your tone to that same sound. You will then be able to develop an ability to write sounds that will work in a band setting. I think many don't get this with acoustic guitar tones as well. Had this problem at our church. Had to teach him how to cut the mids down and let it my electric fill it out there. The sound before just clashed. Now, we both like it better. Keyboards, same concept. What sounds good alone, doesn't work as well with others playing. There does need to be adjustments made to the frequencies that other band members are competing for. Again, lows usualy need to be cut and sometimes mids need to be cleaned up a bit. Just my two cents. :mrgreen:

God hates your tone.:mrgreen:

I was going to post this, but merlin you beat me to it.

I'm surprised no one just said, "Fletcher-Munson curve" (or I guess I should technically say
equal-loudness contours"). Well, some did say it essentially---I think you are primarily experiencing the volume effect. A great low-volume tone will deaden as it's turned up unless you compensate for it by either cutting the bass and treble or boosting the mids.

Another factor is indeed the perception of the guitar sound while sitting in the mix, but generally that happens to me the other way around. What sounds good with a full band might sound weak or thin when I get home because I don't need to fill a certain frequency range if I'm also with a particular keyboardist, etc.

Really, I think it's just an EQ and volume thing. Try upping your mids when you turn it up.

Greetings,newbie here at the forum, for what its worth I built a clear screen to go in front of my tube amp and put a mic on the amp, this allows me to crank the amp a little more to get that sweet spot without the speakers beaming straight at some one, I have the miced signal sent to my stage monitor so I can hear it in context of the overall mix. Allso some times you can angle the amp up
perhaps on a amp stand or even angle the amp to the side a bit can help but as many of above post, tweaking on the fly is your best bet. I have many times had a killer sound dialed in and a few more people step into the sanctuary and wa la, there goes your tone. When all else fails I just worship God the best way I know how for that is the reason for being there in the first place amen?

What "leewhit" said above.

Detailed info and to the point advice! :cool: