Tele sounds thin. Will cap. change help?

Hey guys,

my Tele is sounding a bit thin vs. my other Teles. Just curious if changing the tone cap. (0.022uF) from the stock Am. Std. ceramic, to a say, Sprague Orange Drop cap, would fatten up the sound a bit.

And would perhaps raising the pickup heights help fatten the sound a bit?

Thanks

Try changing to a .047 cap - that should make quite a difference.

Will there be any tone shaping going from a 0.022uF to a 0.047uF cap? Because I'm just looking to fatten up the sound a bit, not change the tone. Thanks

I don't feel that changing a tone cap is going to have a huge impact, specifically with regard to fattening up the overall sound of the guitar. It will change how the tone control responds, for sure, but not a lot else.

Have you tried raising the pickups? That would be my first course of action to beef things up.

a .047 should round off some of the treble and fatten things up and upgrading to a sprague should give you a nicer tone anyway. Tone caps do effect the tone even with the tone fully open. (just changed cap on my LP and its changed it completely)

Putting the pickups closer to the strings will put the bass response up quite alot.

I don't feel that changing a tone cap is going to have a huge impact

Yes it will.

In my experience a cap will make a difference so profound that its simply not worth replacing. Pickups on the other hand do make a difference, time to try a lil puncher?
Some guitars do sound thinner, they just do.

You may experiment with upgrading to a poly cap as opposed to the ceramic. Anything over a generic poly cap is going to be nearly imperceptible. Radio Shack should have some for a buck or two...may be called a metalized film (or metal film or sometimes just film) instead of poly (or polyester).

You can order them online for MUCH cheaper, but shipping will punch you.

Just take the cap out and wire it straight.

By thin what do you mean? Does it sound weak or does it sound too bright? If it sounds weak or the output isn't up to snuff, raising the pickup should help a bunch. If it's too bright or "icepicky" you might want to lower it a bit and turn the amp up.

I would start by raising the pickups 1/4 of a turn at a time and see if you like the results. Then I would change caps.

I use .047's in all my tele's just to fatten the tone. I prefer polyprolyne to ceramic (although technically cap material in a passive circuit does play much of a role in tone quality, though to my ears it does), so I use Orange Drops.

I agree try raising and lowering the pickups and see if that improves it some. If it does then problem solve. If not then try an Orange Drop .047uf Cap.

I recently put a three way mini toggle with a 0.047pf and a 0.022pf wired so that either or both caps can be chosen into a Tele. The differences between the three settings are big. It's a great way to get familiar with the different tone curves of various capacitors. Here's a link;
http://guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=modules&action=display&thread=3883

I recently put a three way mini toggle with a 0.047pf and a 0.022pf wired so that either or both caps can be chosen into a Tele. The differences between the three settings are big. It's a great way to get familiar with the different tone curves of various capacitors. Here's a link;
http://guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=modules&action=display&thread=3883

that sounds really cool- what do you think of the difference in tone side by side?

does the .047 still have lots of twang?

Nevermind...

notjustdrew, I'm going on memory here, because I disassembled the beast last week and it's being finished now. I will say that it was only intended to be strung up for a day to test wiring, but ended up 'in the white' for over a week as various guitarists came in to spank it around. The pickup configuration on this axe is unusual. It has an angled GFS fatbody 7k very close to the bridge and a GFS alinco5 'boutique' 5.3k strat coil right next (well, as close as the 'fins' allow) to it, and no neck PU. A four way tele switch chooses; Tele, both in series, both in parallel, and Strat. Single volume, single tone with two caps and 3 way mini toggle. In the series and parallel positions the two Pups are RWRP so humbucking.

The first thing I noticed about the switch is that all four configurations react differently to the various cap combinations. For people who believe that a tone cap circuit is strictly passive and can't possibly boost any frequencies, I recommend they listen to this mod. I can't give you the electrical science behind this, but I know it has something to do with the coils acting as inductors, sort of like the gibson varitone circuits or Bill Lawrences 'resistor and cap in parallel, in series with 1.5H inductor' stuff. The middle position chooses both caps and has a very distinctive (at the risk of opening a controversial can-o-worms) 'cocked wah' sound and sounds great with just the Strat coil. The 0.047pf by itself cap is darker (counterintuitive to me because it's a higher value than both combined, ain't it?) and sounds good with both coils in series. These are just preliminary judgments. The future owner concurred that (and this guy is a players player) it would probably take him some weeks to explore the possibilities.

It is only going to make a difference if you actually use your tone control. At that point try experimenting with values over materials as that will take you a whole lot farther.

I partly disagree with the last comment- makes a big difference even if your tones all the way open. I tried a number of sprague caps in my tele recently and prefered the .047.

Have since put a 50s bee (0.047) in there and it made a big difference- warmer and more vocal. Highly recommend trying paper in oil caps. Did same with my LP but used luxe caps (new repros- basically russion PIO caps) and made an even bigger difference there.

So yeh- I agree experimenting with values is the more important step and the first one you should make. But once you have your value then I really wouldn't ignore materials- I've found as big a difference as between solid state and valve (really not exxagerating).

Feel free to disagree, but this is my own experience with caps.

I never thought about it much... I just assumed it wouldn't make much difference, so I dismissed it. But, if you think about the fact that even when it's wide open the tone control still bleeds a fair amount of treble to ground, then changing the cap would, I guess, change what frequencies it's bleeding. It's obvious that the passive tone control wide open still effects tone when you take it out of the signal. With some pups in some configurations (pot/cap values) it's dramatic.

I've used the orange drop caps and they sound good, but I'm wondering if the oil filled paper sound better, any thoughts ?

Yeah they do. I have Mojotone Vitamin T's and I was impress with them.

Here's the real question...

How's it sound unplugged? Remember, all the pickups do is pickup the unplugged sound of the strings vibrating.

If it sounds OK unplugged then you have an electronics issue and I'd probably suggest making sure you have the proper pots or maybe the pickups aren't to your liking.

If it sounds thin unplugged, then you might want to start checking your setup and hardware. Maybe try swapping in some brass saddles or a completely different bridge. That's just a starting point... So many variables. :)

GilmourD's post made me think of some things that might help, however insignificant they may seem (lots of small changes equal one big change). Make sure all of your hardware is fastened tightly to the body. Try changing to a bigger string gauge. Slap a well-crafted bone nut on there. Lower the value of your pots to make the guitar sound darker (I find a 500k volume pot and a 250k tone pot works). If you've tried all of these things, and to no avail, a change in pickup(s) may be the only move to make if you're truly not happy with the sound. A billion guys have 7.3 billion opinions about which ones to choose, so do some research. Good luck my Tele friend!

Nobody hit on the numberone reason for thin sounding Teles yet? Does your guitar have one of those dreaded treble bleed caps on the volume pot? Those might be useful with humbuckers, but in my experience the make every single coil-equipped guitar sound thin and tinny; snip that tiny cap on the volume pot out ASAP!

If you then experience a loss of treble when turning down the volume pot, try the Fezz Parka mod:
http://www.lilypix.com/photos/data/71ad16ad2c4d81f348082ff6c4b20768/2344_p39557.jpg

what gauge of strings do you use? what kind of telecaster is it? what type of amp do you use? I would check these before making an alterations to the guitar. I found that having higher action fattened up the sound of my guitar, the brass saddles fatten up the sound, raising the pick up will only make the pick up appear louder - it won't affect the tone that much, if you get to close the magnets can pull the strings out of tune.

also depending on the tele it may have 1 meg pots which typically brighten things up yo

I have quite a bit of experience with capacitor values/types in high end audio applications. Fundamentally, different cap values will definitely impact the tone. The larger the value, the deeper/lower the tone will be because it alters the corner frequency resulting from the R-C network. Material/type also have a MAJOR impact on the quality of the tone. Ceramic disc are arguably the worst for many applications (although I like them in my fuzz pedals specifically for their microphonic properties). Film caps of any type - even the really cheap green film caps - will provide a big upgrade in tone. From there, you can get really wacky if you want to spend big bucks - vintage Bumblebees/Vitamin Q caps, ultra-high end audio caps like Mundorf, AudioNote or Duelund. Orange drops are interesting because they tend to sound a bit more full than other types. for Orange drops, you can go with up to a 100V, but when you get to 200V and above, you will likely notice more fullness.

Bottom line here - the Tele is an extremely simple circuit that is also easy to access. Open her up and try different things and find what you like. And have fun.