ARG!!! Blues Junior.

I'm at my wits end with my BJr. I got it probably close to six months ago for $225 at GC. Sounded pretty good in store, but the more I played it at home, the more I would find things about it I didn't like. Its a MIA '97 green board. Sounds ok on the treble strings, but the lower register strings sound "dark". Typical for this amp. Replaced the speaker twice, have some new tubes as well, and I just can't get a sound I like. I don't know if I'm finally getting the term "boxey", but it sounds muffled almost. The best way I can describe it is when playing an Esquire, it's like the "fixed bassy, dark" position. The sound is very similar but more muffled. I don't think its the speaker since I just ran my Pathfinder through the cab and it sounded great. I'm on the waiting list for BillM mods, but now I'm wondering if that will help. Not to take away from Bill's obvious talents.

Another thing that I'm concerned about is I might be getting to a point in my playing where I might be looking for a little more headroom. God, I never thought I'd say that. All this is making me think that maybe, just maybe I've got the wrong amp. On the other side of the coin, I do enjoy playing BJrs in store. They all seem to sound great or at the very least better than what I have at home.

Any and all comments are welcome.

i felt the same way about my hot rod deluxe, and still do.
i hope you find an answer

Might try different preamp tubes... sounds like to me something might be a little wrong with the amp, I know they sound dark compared to a Vox or Marshall (HRDX sounds dark too) but there should be some snap to the top end there...

Franc Robert

Everyone is going to have their own opinions on what is their favorite amp and why and it makes little sense really for you to listen to my opinion. But, having said that I really, really highly, HIGHLY recommend that you look out for one of these:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/march68/DeluxeR.jpg

I have a couple of other smaller amps too but this one gets most of my attention. It's simply the nicest amp I have ever owned.

Try using a graphic EQ pedal to shape the sound a bit; it worked wonders for my Valve Junior head. If all else fails, you could always sell it and get something like a Deluxe Reverb if you like compactness. I use a '68 Kustom K200 head (100 watt SS that's all PTP and thinks it's a tube amp) and a pair of 1x12" cabs when I need volume like nobody's business and it sounds great with my Boss OD-3 and DS-1. The heads are only about $200 on eBay usually.

I feel your pain. Like Guns1rose I felt the same way about my HRDx which I eventually sold.

I've played through 2 Blues Jrs in a store - one sounded great the other not so great - but then again I had just played through a Deluxe Reverb, an AC30 and a Super-Sonic. All three sounded so much better than the Blues Jr. IMO.

Maybe trying out some other amps wouldn't be a bad idea?

Mistermullens.... looks like you're leaning towards that clean punchy thang..... where there's never enough headroom, never enough chime, never enough glassy....

I have helped a couple of my buddies that have Blues Juniors get closer to that sound they hear in their heads by simply replacing the V1 position tube with a 12AY7 lower gain preamp tube. That tube tends to make the overdrive less aggressive and smoother. You'll find overall volume has dropped a bit, but compensate by turning your MASTER control all the way up, keeping the Volume control around halfway up and controlling all grind with your guitar volume knob....

I think you'll find it much more satisfying. I also think you'll find that your pedals will sound clearer and more high fidelity. The trick is to set your EQ and overall volume with your guitar volume knob about 1/3 off of full.

Keep your MASTER pretty high and adjust overall punch with the Volume control

Mistermullens.... looks like you're leaning towards that clean punchy thang..... where there's never enough headroom, never enough chime, never enough glassy....

I have helped a couple of my buddies that have Blues Juniors get closer to that sound they hear in their heads by simply replacing the V1 position tube with a 12AY7 lower gain preamp tube. That tube tends to make the overdrive less aggressive and smoother. You'll find overall volume has dropped a bit, but compensate by turning your MASTER control all the way up, keeping the Volume control around halfway up and controlling all grind with your guitar volume knob....

I think you'll find it much more satisfying. I also think you'll find that your pedals will sound clearer and more high fidelity. The trick is to set your EQ and overall volume with your guitar volume knob about 1/3 off of full.

Keep your MASTER pretty high and adjust overall punch with the Volume control

Good point. I forgot about swapping a tube value. Which one is V1 again? Closest to the power tubes? I don't have a 12AY7, but I do have a NOS Jan Philips 5751. I'll try that tomorrow.

V1 is closest to the input jack. A 5751 ain't gonna get you where you wanna be, I think. It will help, and you may like it, but from your description of where your tonal preferences are heading.... and how my tonal quest has developed, I'll bet you won't get satisfaction until you try the 12AY7.

In contrast, an even lower 12AU7 doesn't cut it....too anemic sounding. But the 12AY7 seems to still retain enough punch, especially if you dime the MASTER so you get all of the amp behind the preamp signal.

May we assume you've tried all sorts of settings involving the master? I've found using low master volume settings and cranking the pre to be very unsatisfying tonally, so I tend to dime the master and tweak from that point. A BJr should not be too loud that you can't at least try it out without shattering windows and neighborhoods.

12AX7, AY7, 5751 are the only tubes designed to be in the V1 position. AT7s and AU7s are drivers, used for reverb and Phase Inverters. Slip a 5751 or 12AY7 into V1 to lower your input gain, and a 12AT7 into the PI (closest to power tubes) to reduce the amount of gain goint to your power tubes. It is unlikely to actually get you more clean headroom, but it does allow you to crank everything around a little further on the knobs and open the thing up a bit, which may or may not be to your liking.

Of course, putting 12AT7 and AU7 into V1 is almost always a safe swap, though many people find that it has a 'blanket effect', which you already seem to have, so maybe that's not the best idea.

Good Luck, man. It's tough having gear you wanna love and it not love you back.

There's a great amp hiding in there, Mistermullens. You should do the TwinStack mod if nothing else, while you're waiting. It'll get some of the mud out. Or find a local tech to help you out with some more substantial mods if you can't wait.

Jonathan, the amp woes continue eh? Just do what I am doing...get a new amp, lol...just kidding. It is frustrating when you got a cool amp like the BJ and can't get the tone you think you should out of it...if the mods are cheap go that route but I wouldn't sink hundreds of dollars into it

You could always buy the parts that Billm sells and have a local tech do the work.

Mistermullens,
You might want to post your typical amp settings and see if anyone has a suggestion.

A lot of people NEVER use the FAT swtich..... it tends to muddy up the tone (IMHO). I usually like to goose up the Treble and Bass (to around 8-ish) and back the Mids down (to around 4-ish). At least that's a good starting point.

a Celestion G12H Speaker in there and you will never stop smiling.
Rob

a Celestion G12H Speaker in there and you will never stop smiling.
Rob
i might add that a vintage 30 does a good job too.

You can also de-fat the Fat switch by using a lower-value cathode cap. 4.7uF is a good value. But the amp really needs power supply stiffening, tone stack mod, cooler bias, and the aforementioned TwinStack to really get the muck out of the bottom end.

I'm not a fan. They are boxey to my ears.
I think, though, they sound much better up on a chair than on the floor.

They are boxey to my ears.


+1 all the mods in the world won't take away the fact that it's a 1x12 combo in a VERY small box.

They sound fine mic'ed up...but on their own, they are what they are.

it's a 1x12 combo in a VERY small box.

You say that like it's a bad thing!

they are what they are.

There are some who would dispute that. :wink:

It might be the room you're using to practice in also. You say the Blues Jrs in the stores all sound good.

+1 all the mods in the world won't take away the fact that it's a 1x12 combo in a VERY small box.

.


So is my '56 Deluxe.
It sounds pretty good.
I'm not altoghether willing to blame it on the box.

I'm not so sure its the "box". When I run my Pathfinder or my Epi VJr head through the BJr's cab, it sounds fine. Yeah the room does make a difference, but its still there. Once I get my a** off the couch, I'll try the twin stack mod, pretty simple, and my 5751 just for fun.

Try this mod from ebay. It really improved the overall sound of mine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Blues-Jr-Junior-Complete-Mod-Kit-USA-amps_W0QQitemZ180331484275QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item180331484275&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

You say that like it's a bad thing!



There are some who would dispute that. :wink:

FWIW, I owned and gigged a Blues Jr for a brief period. I have no problem with the way they sound. I'm just sayin they are what they are.

I just don't understand why people are so ready to mod it? Why buy something if your goal is to drop several hundred dollars trying to change it? I'd rather drop the extra cash up front and get somthing I really want, rather than chasing after something that might not be there after all.

I had a Blues Jr., it was the biggest piece of **** I had ever owned. When you have websites of nothing but mods and repairs, just to make the amp usable, that should be a good clue. If you ever get a chance to view the circuit board of a BJ, you will see how cheap the control pots, the parts in general are, and input jacks are. The reverb sucks, and usually quits working, the input jack is plastic. The list goes on and on, it's like throwing good money down a well. If you have a BJ, it has either required repairs, or will require repairs in the near future. JMO

Here's the problem: you're playing through a Blues Jr. You need to buy another one and run 'em together. It's a headroom thing. You'd be shocked at the difference.

That or trade it for a Peavey Classic 30.:wink:

I had a Blues Jr., it was the biggest piece of **** I had ever owned. When you have websites of nothing but mods and repairs, just to make the amp usable, that should be a good clue. If you ever get a chance to view the circuit board of a BJ, you will see how cheap the control pots, the parts in general are, and input jacks are. The reverb sucks, and usually quits working, the input jack is plastic. The list goes on and on, it's like throwing good money down a well. If you have a BJ, it has either required repairs, or will require repairs in the near future. JMO


Boy...I'm glad you showed up....I'll put mine up on Ebay right now....I had no idea how bad an amp it was! I've been thinking it sounded great....dumb me:rolleyes::rolleyes:

There's lots of mods for it because it's an easy amp to mod, and there's a TON of 'em out there and lots of folks have tried different things....kinda like there's these forums out there for Teles....LOTS of people posting different things you can do to your Tele to make it sound, look, play better.....

Remember what I told you a couple years ago? You didn't listen.

You can make good use of that BJ by gutting it, getting a better speaker and building a great amp circuit into that chassis. If a dope like me can do it, you can.

That would be my recommendation.

I have a stock BJ that is about 18 months old and I love it.

I played a number of BJ's 5 or 6 years ago and I disliked them all because of the boxy tone.

Could the new ones be better sounding than the older ones.

I'm a clean freak (tone) and I like my newer BJ.

John

If you played old green board Blues Juniors, they were darker sounding. The cream board has been in production since 2001. It's brighter. Headroom is the same, but the brightness helps it cut a little better.

The "green board" models are a darker sounding amp, but owning both (green and cream board), I can get both to sound the same, tonewise, by just tweaking the tone controls.

I've been gigging mine for a couple of years now, sometimes running both in a stereo set up. Both are bone stock, both are 2000-ish USA made. After 40 years of gigging with more amps than I can remember, I just don't get (or hear) that "boxey" sound that others talk about. :roll:

1x12 combo? That's all I've used for years (my back thanks me for the BJr).
And I don't buy, or use any amp, guitar, etc if I have to mod it to make it sound good. If it doesn't sound good, I just don't buy it. If it starts sounding bad, then I replace it. But usually I just want to try something different, which is all personal taste anyway. :lol:

I've considered swapping the speaker, but then again, "if it ain't broke".
I don't want to change the tone of my BJr, sounds just like what I want it to sound like. Being laid off for the past month, I've put a few of my amps up for sale. Already sold my Blues Deluxe RI, and have had a few interested in my "green board" Bjr. I'm considering keeping the BJr, if I can, as MF shows the new price of $599! Retail on these little amps is now $750! I know that I can't afford to replace the ones I already have, and at least IMO, they are nice amps for MY situation. :rolleyes:

I'd really like to see you get yours sorted out, mistermullens, but if not, then maybe time to try/look for something else that will get you where you want to be, tonewise. Good luck in your quest!! :wink:

I had a Blues Jr., it was the biggest piece of **** I had ever owned. When you have websites of nothing but mods and repairs, just to make the amp usable, that should be a good clue. If you ever get a chance to view the circuit board of a BJ, you will see how cheap the control pots, the parts in general are, and input jacks are. The reverb sucks, and usually quits working, the input jack is plastic. The list goes on and on, it's like throwing good money down a well. If you have a BJ, it has either required repairs, or will require repairs in the near future. JMO

My Blues Jr. has never failed, sounds great, no matter what guitar I use, and has the right amount of power for most situations, and is adjustable.
:cool:

I'm at my wits end with my BJr. I got it probably close to six months ago for $225 at GC. Sounded pretty good in store, but the more I played it at home, the more I would find things about it I didn't like. Its a MIA '97 green board. Sounds ok on the treble strings, but the lower register strings sound "dark". Typical for this amp. Replaced the speaker twice, have some new tubes as well, and I just can't get a sound I like. I don't know if I'm finally getting the term "boxey", but it sounds muffled almost. The best way I can describe it is when playing an Esquire, it's like the "fixed bassy, dark" position. The sound is very similar but more muffled. I don't think its the speaker since I just ran my Pathfinder through the cab and it sounded great. I'm on the waiting list for BillM mods, but now I'm wondering if that will help. Not to take away from Bill's obvious talents.

Another thing that I'm concerned about is I might be getting to a point in my playing where I might be looking for a little more headroom. God, I never thought I'd say that. All this is making me think that maybe, just maybe I've got the wrong amp. On the other side of the coin, I do enjoy playing BJrs in store. They all seem to sound great or at the very least better than what I have at home.

Any and all comments are welcome.

Been there....
might i suggest having it rewired P2P ?


Remember what I told you a couple years ago? You didn't listen.

You can make good use of that BJ by gutting it, getting a better speaker and building a great amp circuit into that chassis. If a dope like me can do it, you can.

That would be my recommendation.

Blues Jr conversion info (http://www.s2amps.com/bluesjr.html)

iirc the proprietor is a member here....
their work is absolutely top notch.
www.s2amps.com

No, i'm NOT suggesting anyone run right out to buy a new B-Jr with the intention of converting it, BUT for those who already own one and are dissatisfied with it, having it converted is a cost effective alternative to buying another amp...

Have you tried an old non-MV blackface, silverface or tweed? Or their
RI equivalents.

I can tell you, I thought my Blues Jr. was a great amp until I played through a '62 blonde bandmaster.

I then sold my BJ for a 5e3 kit, and it was like a veil was lifted. A real "so, THAT's what they're talking about" moment. Those simple old circuits just respond to your playing so much better. They reflect your playing so much more "honestly" if that makes sense.

I was converted. Maybe you won't be. But I bet you might.

My advice: don't spend any more money until you try out a couple of old chestnuts, or reissues of same. I think the suggestion in post #4 is a great one.

Also: more headroom than a BJ? I always thought mine was LOUD! but I pretty much ignored the master.

Just sold my BJ last week ... took the $$$ and added a couple hundred

Got a good as new used DRRI !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never looking back ... best $200 I ever spent!

I kept my BJr when I bought my used DRRI.

Both amps sound different and compliment each other very well.

I'll play one for awhile then go to the other and it's like new amp day everytime! :grin:

Been there....
might i suggest having it rewired P2P ?




Blues Jr conversion info (http://www.s2amps.com/bluesjr.html)

iirc the proprietor is a member here....
their work is absolutely top notch.
www.s2amps.com


If you don't want to do the work yourself, this is a good option. I don't know how the guy can make a 5E3 with EL84s (6V6s are the power tubes in a 5E3) but whatever he does would be better than a BJ. Good suggestion.

If you don't want to do the work yourself, this is a good option. I don't know how the guy can make a 5E3 with EL84s (6V6s are the power tubes in a 5E3) but whatever he does would be better than a BJ. Good suggestion.



+1. I might add that the S2 conversions are not a BJr. circuit. IOW, it will no longer be a BJr., it will be another PTP circuit without reverb in a BJr. cabinet. Therefore, given the nature of the packing crate Fender calls a cabinet, selling the BJr. outright and then buying a complete S2 amp with a solid wood Tweed cabinet would be best of the best, so to speak. Of course, if money allows, you could just keep the BJr. and use it for target practice. :razz:

You could spend $469 on it and end up with a not-quite-so-Deluxe in an MDF cabinet. Or you could tape a check to it and send it to Bill M's posh New Jersey amp spa...

The man has made these things his life's work. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.:lol:

It's a dirty job

On the contrary! It's quite rewarding. All those smiling BJr owners with their secret-weapon amps....

+1. Of course, if money allows, you could just keep the BJr. and use it for target practice. :razz:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! http://guitarpete.net/images/fcicons/lol.gifhttp://guitarpete.net/images/fcicons/lol.gifhttp://guitarpete.net/images/fcicons/lol.gif

On the other side of the coin, I do enjoy playing BJrs in store. They all seem to sound great or at the very least better than what I have at home.

Any and all comments are welcome.

The Blue Jr has a voice that you will either like or not, just like any other amp. YOu can mod them to try and make another voice, but that only goes so far and never really makes them into something else. If a tube swap to a 12AY7/12AU7 and a more efficient speaker like a C-Rex does not get you what you want for headroom, you probably will be happier looking elsewhere.

You may like the newer ones which are brighter than the Greenbaords. Also, most of our tastes change over time. Part of the reason I have several guitars and amps is that some times I like LP and not teles. Sometimes I want my El Diablo, other times my Tweed Deluxe or Traynor. Over time I have gone through phases - low/no gain, high gain, moderate gain ...