Finishing: ONLY shellac/french polish!!! (pics asap!)

Hi everybody!
I've just "naturalized" my '52 reissue AV.
I was annoyed by the fake original butterscotch: It was gummy, vibes-stopping, anti-time wear and too glossy.

Now it's natural. I sanded it and I was going to re-finish it...

...JUST WITH THE ONLY SHELLAC!

I want to use only few amber shellac layers, wit a french polishing method, leaving it with a very thin finish, ultra vibrant and time-unresistant.

I'd love to reach something like the Boss' partscaster.

Did anybody ever try it?

Only on a Pine body:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/Lostheart/PineTele_01.jpg

Came out nice and the current owner seems to like it very much.

I can imagine that the open grain of swamp ash would cause a problem when you french polish. I would at least grainfill and seal the body prior to the shallac...

BTW: Although it was not intended the color did remind me of Bruce's Esquire...

That's a great work, my friend!
I can believe that the current owner is happy!!
Did you french polished with a buffer or a brush?
Thanks

ps...and how many hands oh shellac did you give? How diluted?

I french polished with a cotton rag formed to a ball and with some olive oil.
I was just eyeballing the mix of shellac and denatured alcohol so unfortunately I cannot give you a perfect formula. I kept it very thin, though, and applied it many many times.
I believe there are a few french polishing tutorials on youtube that you might want to check out.

But...and I cannot say it often enough...if I were you I wouldn't leave the pores of the ash open and would seal them prior to the shellac.
IMHO it looks like a half-a$$ed refinish if the pores are not filled properly and the better the prep work, the better the finish will be.

I passed a week on the web's tutorials, ehe!
I red somewhere (not only in one site) that the best grainfiller is the same shellac.
And I red about people who passed shellac right on a natural ash wood with good results.

I saw that you have a huge experience in finishing...why do you say that it would be a bad work without passing a grainfiller?

Uff....

why do you say that it would be a bad work without passing a grainfiller?


Because every ash body that left the Fender factory in the 50's was grain filled and IMHO skipping this step would result in - well - a rushed homemade finish with a top that looks like a minature of the Grand Canyon. ;-)
Grain filling is not really that big of a deal and only throws you back a day or two. I believe a 1300 Euro guitar is worth spending some time on...and even with the filler it will still wear nicely.
The cool thing about shellac is the fact that you don't need $$$ spraying equipment and since it don't stink it can be applied inside the house.

With regards to grain filler, I've been considering a shellac finish on an ash tele body that's coming my way soon. I've seen products that are basically a pre-mixed shellac sanding/sealant that can be used to fill grain (e.g. this one (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?src=froogle&pricing=INC&pf_id=19766&)). I'm thinking that I would use this product to seal and get a close to fine finish, and then a little french polishing to finish it off?

Lowes has Bull's Eye shellac sanding sealer... it's Cabot's if I recall. great stuff and readily available.

Ron Krin

With regards to grain filler, I've been considering a shellac finish on an ash tele body that's coming my way soon. I've seen products that are basically a pre-mixed shellac sanding/sealant that can be used to fill grain (e.g. this one (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?src=froogle&pricing=INC&pf_id=19766&)). I'm thinking that I would use this product to seal and get a close to fine finish, and then a little french polishing to finish it off?

uh...let me understand...

YES a grainfilling done with (pre-mixed) shellac and
NO to shellac directly on ash wood, untreated?

And for the "grand canyon" problem: Can a very fine sandpaper after shellac solidification be a solution, eventually?

:confused::confused::confused:

uh...let me understand...

YES a grainfilling done with (pre-mixed) shellac and
NO to shellac directly on ash wood, untreated?

And for the "grand canyon" problem: Can a very fine sandpaper after shellac solidification be a solution, eventually?

:confused::confused::confused:

Yes, I'm referring to using a shellac based grainfiller/sealant on the Ash and then doing the french polishing on top.

You can also spray shellac. One of the quickie finishes I do from time to time is a couple of coats of shellac brushed on and leveled. Then one or two very light coats sprayed with a preval unit.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb138/jaydawg76/Korina%20Tele/IMG_0550.jpg

I've refinished a bunch of things- necks, bodies, even a lap steel with amber shellac and couple coats of clear, what a stellar finish and easy to work with. the quick drying time, and the richness of the color really brings out a vintage beauty to any wood. I've used it maple and over rustoleum for a squier relic project that turned out great.

i've never done the french polish route-i'm still such an amateur hobbyist, but the spray and brush on works great, dries in a half hour, and a little sanding and buffing and you've got a fantastic finish.

I wonder why not more people use shellac as a finish option- given all its practicality. Any thoughts?

I've refinished a bunch of things- necks, bodies, even a lap steel with amber shellac and couple coats of clear, what a stellar finish and easy to work with. the quick drying time, and the richness of the color really brings out a vintage beauty to any wood. I've used it maple and over rustoleum for a squier relic project that turned out great.

i've never done the french polish route-i'm still such an amateur hobbyist, but the spray and brush on works great, dries in a half hour, and a little sanding and buffing and you've got a fantastic finish.

I wonder why not more people use shellac as a finish option- given all its practicality. Any thoughts?

I've not used it yet, but I've been wondering why it's not so popular as well. For someone like me, who hates hanging around for hours (never mind days!) before I can move on to the next step, shellac seems to be very appealing, on the surface at least (no pun intended).

I know that if you go down the route of a genuine french polish, then it's not a simple task. That is something I'd like to try, but if spray on shellac can get near to that finish quality then I'm more than ready to be converted.

There was a time I was french polishing bodies to seal them before spraying them out. I have since replaced that with a homoclad sealer out of preference.

When I was doing it, I used a rag with cotton stuffed inside, rottenstone fine abrasive to keep s the surface mooth and baby oil to lube. They all came out great and I loved the smell while they were shellaced.

Quick tip, watch the denatured alcohol around old neck pickups and gray bobbin pickups as it will reactivate their potting solution. Something acetone can't even do.

I've not used it yet, but I've been wondering why it's not so popular as well. For someone like me, who hates hanging around for hours (never mind days!) before I can move on to the next step, shellac seems to be very appealing, on the surface at least (no pun intended).

I know that if you go down the route of a genuine french polish, then it's not a simple task. That is something I'd like to try, but if spray on shellac can get near to that finish quality then I'm more than ready to be converted.

Shellac seems to a be a dirty little secret! :mrgreen:

Woodworkers use it all the time for sealing... I use it seal stains before painting... walls.... It kills nicotine stains and water stains and can be topcoated with just about anything.

I also love the smell of denatured alcohol.

The big drawback is that it does not hold up to alcohol, like if you spill a whiskey on it, it can get sticky and melt... but what happens when the alcohol evaporates? It dries right back out, a little sanding and hit again with some fresh shellac, good as new!

It is probably more difficult than Poly's and spray finishes for production work, though I cannot attest to that. But it becomes more brittle than Poly's, that's for sure!

I'm a huge proponent of it.

Thank you all for the suggestions...I did the job...

A masterpiece (ok, I could have done better...next time!)...I wonder what I was waiting for? Great tone improvement.

And I'm pretty sure that it will get better everyday...I guess that the wood can "breath" into shellac and dry up, live and resonate more and more.

Thanks!

d.

Sounds good dodomora - but you know this thread is worthless without pictures :). Let's see your finished result!

The wood is dead. It stopped breathing a long time ago.

Thank you all for the suggestions...I did the job...

A masterpiece (ok, I could have done better...next time!)...I wonder what I was waiting for? Great tone improvement.

And I'm pretty sure that it will get better everyday...I guess that the wood can "breath" into shellac and dry up, live and resonate more and more.

Thanks!

d.

Wow, that was fast. Took me a few days (I wasn't working on it non-stop, though) to build up a thin shellac finish and you've made it in like...one!?! Do you have a flux capacitor?

I'm a shellac fiend, too. It's all I care to use on necks anymore. I'll soon do an ash body completely in burgundy-tinted shellac. Might even try a burst.

To my eyes, nothing makes wood grain "pop" so impressively - - and with so thin a coating - - as this nifty bug secretion. You've got to love the quick drying time. I like mixing up small quantities from top-quality flakes, then further refining to remove the last bit of wax residue that settles out. I've tried various application methods, including Preval sprayers and traditional wool batting, but in the end, it seems nothing works better for me than high-quality linen pads and very light mixtures (1/2 to 1 lb. cuts). Many light wipes are definitely better than a few heavy ones. Mistakes are easily corrected. I've yet to damage a shellacked neck with alcohol, perspiration, etc. Although I must say that some dogs seem to like the flavor of shellac-coated wood. But we won't talk about that right now.

A good use for shellac that is nearing the end of its shelf life is sealing MDF templates. A few generous coats can really harden that stuff up good and make it more resilient against denting, moisture, etc. And since almost everything sticks to shellac, if you aren't satisfied with a shellac coating, you have many other options. I've put oil-based gloss polyurethane over shellac on a throwaway neck, and it had great depth and shine.

I realize this quite a bump, but how has shellac been holding up over time for you guys?

Does it rapidly wear in the neck? Im thinking of using boiled linseed oil followed by several coats of shellac on a tele build using wood from the barn my grandpa built some time ago...

The wood is dead. It stopped breathing a long time ago.

When did it stop resonating and vibrating?

When did it stop resonating and vibrating?

When the strings stop moving.

Traditional french polished woods would have been grainfilled using a pumice technique.


Shellac isn't widely used on guitars because the finish doesn't hold up well. Even high end Spanish guitars have gone to spraying lacquer on at least the neck, back, and sides. Shellac also doesn't keep well. It needs to be mixed up fresh.

To grain fill when french polishing you tap your pad in pumice on the fist padding and rub in small circles. The pumice will cut the wood fibers and the circular motion packs them down in the open wood pores. I've had to take up to four passes on ash to get it filled enough to get a good flat surface.
Practice on scrap to get the feel for it. It doesn't take long.

I've done two bodies and three necks in fresh-mixed shellac through a preval. There's really not much difference in shellac and NC lacquer as far as toughness. The shellac dries completely in hours and doesn't react with vinyl or leather. NC takes years to cure completely. The usual recommendation here is to topcoat it with clear but it's not necessary.

When the strings stop moving.

So then you admit that the finish has until the strings stop moving to affect the resonance of the body?

:lol:

So then you admit that the finish has until the strings stop moving to affect the resonance of the body?

:lol:

Hmmmmm........ I guess the body could keep vibrating after the strings stop, but I don't think it would matter on an electric because the pickups are getting their signal from the strings. I do, however, believe that the vibrations of the guitar as a whole effect the way the strings vibrate.

Moved my question to it's own topic so not to hijack... Thanks