Patch cable quality - how important?

I need seven patch cables for my pedals.

Do I get a 'George L' kit and assemble my own cables, works out at £12.85 ($19) for each cable.

Or do I buy these cheap ones...

http://www.gear4music.com/inventory-detail/index/?int_product_id=8839&gad=COO_5foBEgjUTSM1_6-iXBi0mZL_AyDfv5AR

...for £2 ($3) plus postage

Is there going to be an £11/ $16 difference in sound?

I know nothing about cables so please help out, I've got quite expensive pedals and don't want to ruin their sound.

I took chance on some of those cheap ones a while back, and the quality is equal to their cost. They sound fine and all, but you can tell they're just cheaply made. The rest of my board is wired up with George Ls and there's a huge difference in quality there, I only bought the cheapies cos money was an issue at the time.

cheap cables generally have high capacitance, which sucks tone, so it's worth going for quality. i really like the George L's on my board, but i can't believe the price they're charging now — $99 for 10 feet of cable and 10 plugs! maybe you can find some middle ground, decent quality without paying an arm and a leg. if you're handy with a soldering iron, you could buy good cable/jacks and make your own.

Your signal is only as good as your weakest cable. I'm not saying get the most expensive brand, but I am saying don't get the cheapest unless you know they are quality cables.

I need seven patch cables for my pedals.

Do I get a 'George L' kit and assemble my own cables, works out at £12.85 ($19) for each cable.

Or do I buy these cheap ones...

Is there going to be an £11/ $16 difference in sound?

I know nothing about cables so please help out, I've got quite expensive pedals and don't want to ruin their sound.

George Ls at Hotrox UK (http://www.hotroxuk.com/george-l-cables-and-plugs-10001-0.html) works out at about £8.60 per cable, with a bit of cable spare.

Thats based on 2M of .155 patch cable @ £2.95 per Metre

and 14 Right Angle plugs at £3.99 - I don't use the jackets etc.

Well your looking for quality thats a good start. The second most important thing in buying patch cables or any cable for that matter is getting ones with a lifetime warranty. You can pretty much throw any Mogami, Monster, or Livewire cable at guitar center and they will give you a new one for free without testing it. I know there probably isn't a guitar center in the UK but I'm sure there is some kind of music store that will do that for you.

I'm not a big fan of solderless patch cables.

These cables from Big Daddy Sun have served me very well they are very good quality at about $3 apiece including shipping. You can get them in 1-foot, 2-foot and 3-foot lengths.

More than a year using them daily and have not had one go bad yet.

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/33/5b/bf_1.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310102701301

Bill

Your signal is only as good as your weakest cable. I'm not saying get the most expensive brand, but I am saying don't get the cheapest unless you know they are quality cables.

I whole heartedly agree with this. Players will get a great guitar and a decent amp, buy top of the range cables / effects and then ruin it with cheap patch cables. There are some decent quality patch cables quite cheap out there so worth a few extra bucks

I up graded to GLs toward the end of my career from medium price cables and gotta tell ya I didn't notice any difference.Course my ears downgraded at the same time..But all my long cables ar GL..PJ..

Your signal is only as good as your weakest cable. I'm not saying get the most expensive brand, but I am saying don't get the cheapest unless you know they are quality cables.

In theory I agree with this, but in practice I wonder how much difference it makes.

If you’re familiar with the insides of pedals, have a look at the quality of wire your signal is running through in there. Even when a true bypass pedal is bypassed, you still have a minimum or 2 or 3 inches of cheap, thin wire that runs from input to footswitch and then footswitch to output.

Of course there are variables on your pedalboard that don’t occur inside a pedal - movement of cable etc - but still, even in an expensive rig, if you’re running pedals, a portion of your signal is always passing through wire that costs pence.

When I switched over from cheap plastic patch leads to George L’s years ago, I’ll hold my hands up and say I never experienced an increase in tone. What I did gain for my money was a flexible setup which you can fix yourself, with tiny jacks that save space. I like George L’s for this reason, though in fairness I think they’re massively overpriced.

I think its very important to have great cables- yes even patch cables. its not only the sound but its the durability, and less issues. Do it once- invest and forget about it.
I mean we invest in pickups, strings, pedals, amps, woods, electronics, speakers etc'.
So a few bucks more on patch cables.
I did mine myself from an old Klotz lagrange and old american switchcraft jacks. I could tell the diff, but not only that I needed another patch, so I went out and bought a cheap one, it looked more than waht it cost. After hauling the equipment 2-3 times I strated having problems, crackling, connection etc.

Let me add that i'm a freak about my signal chain, and I can assure u evry switch, pot, wire, cap, makes a little but huge difference on your sound

Yaron

I make my own.

When I solder the ends together I also add hot glue and heat shrink tubing over the soldered ends. Built like a brick... ah, well, you get the idea. It's cheap and you don't have to do it often.

I have yet to replace a cable that I have made myself.

After seeing several people all hunched over and smiling as they repair their George L cables quipping, "these are great! You don't need a soldering iron to fix them," I went out and bought a length of quality cable and a bunch 1/4" ends and soldered up my own cables to the exact lengths I need them.

Sure, you can fix George L's on the spot but, the point is, you shouldn't have to fix them in the first place! I am not impressed with what I've seen.

On the other hand, I have never had a cable fail that I soldered myself. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt to make your own but, if you do it right, you'll never have to do it again. Or, you can bend over and smile while fixing your George L's and take great comfort in knowing you can fix them on the spot because, ...........you'll need to. In my experience, they just don't hold up.

Make your own. It costs less. It's exactly the length you want. You'll improve your skills, and you'll only have to do it once.

So could you just buy George L cable and plugs and then solder them on rather than just tighten them up?

So could you just buy George L cable and plugs and then solder them on rather than just tighten them up?

No, it' not that simple. The George L's design is such that you literally slot the entire cable into a hole, bend it at a right angle, then screw the cap on. The actual connections within the jacks aren't accessable to solder.

You could just buy the cable and solder it to different jacks, but the cable is too thin for most jacks - it's in the region of 1/3 the diameter of most other good quality cable.

I believe you should only upgrade your cables when they become the weakest link in your chain. If you have any other gear which is of equal or poorer quality than the cables you're using I'd upgrade those first.

Also, seven 6"-12" patch cables will only add 3.5'-7' to your cable run. When the typical cables running from the guitar to the pedalboard and from the pedalboard to the amp are in the range of 15'-30' each that additional 7' isn't much.

I believe you should only upgrade your cables when they become the weakest link in your chain. If you have any other gear which is of equal or poorer quality than the cables you're using I'd upgrade those first.

Also, seven 6"-12" patch cables will only add 3.5'-7' to your cable run. When the typical cables running from the guitar to the pedalboard and from the pedalboard to the amp are in the range of 15'-30' each that additional 7' isn't much.

It depends, as I have heard signal degradtion occurs with cable runs over 30'...but as far as how much or how noticeable it is, I cannot say for sure, but I have always heard you want to keep your total cable runs under 30-feet if possible, so 7' is much depending on how long your other cables are and/or how much you follow or believe the 30' rule.

Reading forums, you can get into the mindset of 'i don't hear any tone loss, but everyone else says there is so there must be', which is a sure-fire way of spending money upgrading things that don't necessarily need upgrading.

Main thing is your rig sounds good to YOU. Audiences all over the world will never hear the difference between a Squier and a Custom Shop Fender, a cheap patch cable and a set that cost you $200 etc etc.

I run 80 feet of cable plus patch leads because I use my effects loop. Most would say this is a massive source of tone loss, and whilst it may be true that my bypassed signal isn't exactly the same as if I went straight into the amp with a 10' cable.... I don't really care, because I'm thoroughly happy with the tones I get regardless.

Planet Waves makes a kit that is pretty decent and cheaper than George L

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Planet-Waves-Cable-Station-Pedalboard-Cable-Kit?sku=339123

Wayne

Reading forums, you can get into the mindset of 'i don't hear any tone loss, but everyone else says there is so there must be', which is a sure-fire way of spending money upgrading things that don't necessarily need upgrading.

Main thing is your rig sounds good to YOU. Audiences all over the world will never hear the difference between a Squier and a Custom Shop Fender, a cheap patch cable and a set that cost you $200 etc etc.

I run 80 feet of cable plus patch leads because I use my effects loop. Most would say this is a massive source of tone loss, and whilst it may be true that my bypassed signal isn't exactly the same as if I went straight into the amp with a 10' cable.... I don't really care, because I'm thoroughly happy with the tones I get regardless.

+1. I run a volume pedal, wah, 3 dirt boxes, chorus,and eq with 6" Boss cables between each. No boutique stuff. My board has never heard of true bypass. From there, an 18' cable to the amp and a 30' cable to the guitar, not counting 2 1' cables in the effects loop that connect an outboard processor. I like what I hear coming out of my amp. Don't have the slightest desire to change it all chasing down some so-called signal loss/degradation that doesn't matter to me in the slightest. IMHO, buy decent quality patches and leads that don't cost an arm and a leg or a left nostril and play on. If you like what you hear, you're good. The only time I examine my signal chain is when I don't like what I hear. YMMV.

Great minds think alike ;)

Most important thing is that you like the end product - not how much difference there is between 10' and 50'.

Cowie86
The Jack Pro ones that you linked don't look bad. I have some like that made by Hosa that I paid $3 each for. The nice thing about those cables is that you can repair them and if need be put heavier gauge wire between the 1/4" plugs if you want. You cannot even buy just the 2 - 1/4" plugs of any kind for $3.00 where I live and the Hosa's where already assembled. I did not notice any tone degradation and have not had any issues with the 6 that I am using. At that price order a couple extra for spares.

The ones that I don't like are the ones with the sealed plugs that you can't repair if they fail.

I would get the premade George L Patch cables if don't want cut the cables wrong. http://www.lavacable.com/george.html

I used to use George Ls and they are good cables. But they always sounded a little thin to me and somewhat brighter..which I really wasn't needing with my tele. I switched them out for all Lava Cables and never looked back. My tone is much bigger and more balanced to my ears. They're a little more tricky to put together, but they're worth it. My rig sounds better to me than it's ever sounded. They cost about the same as the GLs too...maybe a little less. Musicians friend is carrying them now, or you can buy them directly through www.lavacable.com. Mark at lava is also very well respected for his customer service as well.

I think Bill Lawrence also has a build-your-own cable type of thing. His are low capacitance, so if you're looking for a quality cable, that should fit the bill. How much difference that makes is up for debate, but capacitance is, scientifically, the most important thing. His are cheaper than George L's, but it looks like he doesn't do right angle plugs.
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Connector_Cable.htm

I have a boss phaser that has 7 setting positions, when I used cheaper patch cables ,two of my positions generated a weaker signal, when I got some good patch cords, all the positions generated a strong full signal....that was my test

Guys, if you are worried about tone loss you should be using a buffer/line driver coming right after the guitar, or a beautiful sounding low gain preamp like the Tillman.

As soon as your high impedance guitar signal exits the first buffer stage there is no tone loss due to capacitance. The effect of capacitance is completely negated. I do not want to separate anybody from his love for a $20 one foot patch cable but there is no difference between that and the $3 cables I am buying in bulk. As long as your cable is shielded enough not to be microphonic your are fine. The ones I use have both braided and foil shielding. It is possible to get good quality without spending a lot.

Bill

Let's assume most folks run six pedals on their board, with a 6 '' length of cable between each pedal and not counting the cable run from the guitar to the board and from the board to the amp. That is a total of 5 patch cables between the six pedals, or 30 inches/2.5 feet of cable. Assuming the foregoing parameters, for those of us who are not Eric Johnson the capacitance effect of 2.5 feet of non boutique cable is undetectable.

So I agree that many of the quality cables seem overpriced and building your own might be the best way to go...

But how / where do you find quality cable / jacks?

http://procablesnsound.com/PCNS_Main.asp

Mostly Canare cable and G&H plugs. Works for me.

I use these by Hosa. You can get them in multi packs. Sturdy...
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/8/3/2/5/0/webimg/88079117_o.jpg

I like the sound of the G-L's cable. Passes more highs. I tend to use lots of effects. I have made soldered patch cables using the G-L's wire that is fine , sonic wise. I used SwitchCraft right angle cables. They are not cheap ! and if you want your board layout to be compact you find the Switch Craft are rather bulky. I finally opted for the solder-less G-L's because they are more compact and allowed for a tighter array on the board.
The batch cables are very short. Less than 3 inches of cable used.
The G-L's solder-less right angle plugs have a bit of a learning curve, it takes a try or two to get it right, but I have found through heavy use that they are sufficiently reliable even under touring conditions.