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Tuner, Overdrive, Distortion...then what?

Telephonic
January 27th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Hello all, this is my first post...seems like an active and informative forum!

I've been playing for 30 years but the past 7 solely at church - but mostly acoustic. I have now been back on electric for the past year and am in the process of building a new pedalboard. More toys!
I did research posts about pedalboards but am left wondering what else (realisticaly) I should add to color my sound. Delay? Compression? Flanger? Chorus?...and why.

Thanks for any insight!

Scott

iowa
January 27th, 2009, 10:57 PM
Some insight into the style of music you play and you current amp would help us make recommendations.
Oh, and welcome to the TDPRI.

Telephonic
January 27th, 2009, 11:21 PM
Thanks!
Nashville tele (I like the 3 pups) - Tu2-TS9-BD2-Zoom G2-Fender Princeton (mic'ed to the house) In ear axioms...
Style of music- Hillsongs, hillsong united, Paul Baloche...I guess it's kind of a "blended" worship service. Set list last week was:
You are good
Everlasting God
I surrender all
Still
Be unto Your name

giantslayer
January 28th, 2009, 01:11 AM
Definitely delay. Delay is the most useful non-dirt effect in worship, hands down.

Looks like you've got a Zoom G2. You could very easily dial in delay with that, or, heck, any of the effects you mentioned and figure out for yourself what to get. I also find wah to be a useful effect, as is a volume pedal before a delay pedal (do some nice swells).

JPark
January 28th, 2009, 01:21 AM
You can get some pretty neat effects from Chorus or Flanger... just sayin'.

WideAwake
January 28th, 2009, 07:11 AM
Delay for sure.

Telephonic
January 28th, 2009, 09:32 AM
Thanks for the feedback!
The G2 is a great pedal and I have some great lead patches from it but I'm not sure if I want to keep it on the board...still trying to decide.
As far as delay goes, there are so many pedals out there but I did notice an "H20" which I think has both delay and chorus... Would this be good or should I stick with single pedal/single effect? Any other brands that seem to be user friendly and solid?

WideAwake
January 28th, 2009, 09:39 AM
I am sure you'll get a lot of different opinions, but I personally use a Boss DD-20.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Boss-DD20-Giga-Delay?sku=151305

I really like the display for accuracy, and it does just about every type of delay you'd need.

teleftcaster
January 29th, 2009, 02:45 PM
I recommend the MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay. Been using one in church service for about a month and, WOW!, it is pretty sounding with the modulator button activated. Great for alot of choruses.

giantslayer
January 30th, 2009, 12:51 AM
+1 on the MXR carbon copy. I was considering going all analog and researched for a while. The carbon copy gets rave reviews and isn't too expensive either. If you want tap tempo, however, you will need a digital delay.

Dababy
January 31st, 2009, 09:53 AM
Definately delay! I have one of those zoom pedals and almost any other delay you buy will give you more control over your sound. I use a Line 6 DL-4 and I like it but its really pricey IMO.

Southpaw Tele
January 31st, 2009, 10:53 AM
I'm going with this at church:

MIM Tele --> tuner --> Dano Cool Cat Drive --> Vox AD30V (w/ effects loop) --> Dano Tuna Melt Tremolo --> Ibanez DE-7 Delay/Echo

I use the Trem during verses quite a bit, lately. The delay is great in a number of different settings. Some guys like chorus, but I think it's overdone, personally.

PraiseCaster
January 31st, 2009, 04:05 PM
I've been playing in church for about 8 years now. Lead guitarist at my current church for the last 6.

A classic type OverDrive will work best imho. I use an Ibanez TS808 RI with my Tele, and my LP. Now I also have a indyguitarist modded FX55 thats like having a fire-breathing Plexi crammed into a stomp box.

I also have a BBE Boosta Grande boost pedal for leads. Its a "fairly" clean boost (gets a little gritty when you turn the knob past 12 o'clock position).

Then I have a Marshall Regenerator that I have dialed in for Phase, but I want to get an MXR Script Logo Phase 90 (just sounds better to my ears).

Next is Super Chorus that I have on all the time, set to subtle levels, just to add some warmth, and soften the edges, and add a minute amount of chime to the signal.

Last effect in my chain is a BBE Sonic Stomp. I call it my magic pedal, and it is on all the time. They say it repairs the envelope (a lag between the amp and speaker), and lets you dial in a better sounding (to my ears) low end.

Then I have a Planet Waves Chromatic tuner, and last in the chain is my Morely Lil Alligator volume pedal.

I do plan on getting Delay pedal to put after my volume pedal (when you roll of on the volume pedal, it leaves a decaying trail to the sound that is very cool!). I also want to get some sort of slap-back pedal (think Jeremy Camp, "Breath In Me", and Kutless, "Wings" [I think thats the title]).

layout of your effects is important too: I go, Guitar > TS808 OD > FX55 OD > Boosta Grande > Phase > Chorus > Sonic Stomp > Tuner > Volume Pedal > Amp. This configuration for me at least, seems to let all the pedal play together nicely whether its Clean and or going for Over Driven tones.

Hope that helps.

giantslayer
January 31st, 2009, 06:23 PM
How have you lived for so long without a delay, praisecaster? It's the most useful non-distortion effect out there for P&W. The only effects I always use at some point during a worship set (or usually for most of the set, actually) are overdrive and delay.

PraiseCaster
February 2nd, 2009, 01:55 AM
How have you lived for so long without a delay, praisecaster? It's the most useful non-distortion effect out there for P&W. The only effects I always use at some point during a worship set (or usually for most of the set, actually) are overdrive and delay.

Maybe I'm on a mission, I dunno........

now hear me out: I LOVE U2! I think they are one of the best bands of all time!

BUT IA AM SICK OF HEARING EVERY P&W BAND SOUNDING JUST LIKE U2!!!!!!!

It drives me up the wall!

Four of our five team members went to a 3 day P&W Workshop at CC Costa Mesa. I was almost tempted to destroy all my U2 CD's at the end of day 1......

One of the classes was going over gear (thought I would go, just in case there was something new I could learn). Everything seemed to be geared around getting that "U2 Sound" exclusively. When I asked, can we look at other tonal varieties, The guy heading up the workshop, who is a real nice guy and accomplished guitarist (plays with a current CCM artist), he said there was no need, because that tone is all thats needed, becasue that all anyone wants too hear.

:confused:

I'm sorry, I might not be the best guitarist out there (believe me, I'm not), but I dont want to sound like someone else, or play like someone else. I wanna sound like me, and play like me. And to be stuck in a box sounding like someone else? I dont think I would stick with playing guitar.....

And the delay I wanna get, is to just add that little trail off as I roll off on a volume sweep. And maybe some slap-back like what Kutless uses on "Give you Wings" (I think thats the title of the song?).

giantslayer
February 2nd, 2009, 11:10 PM
BUT IA AM SICK OF HEARING EVERY P&W BAND SOUNDING JUST LIKE U2!!!!!!!


And the delay I wanna get, is to just add that little trail off as I roll off on a volume sweep. And maybe some slap-back like what Kutless uses on "Give you Wings" (I think thats the title of the song?).

Like I said, a delay is very versatile. You can get a U2 type of sound, sure, but volume swells are very, very nice for softer parts. Creative use of volume swells (with some sort of gain or compression) can even get you some flute-like sounds on the higher frets (neck pickup) and violin-like sounds on the lower notes. If you do quick volume swells and end the notes abruptly, you can get a cool seagull type of sound (whether that's useful depends on what kind of stuff you play - I find good use for it). If you set it up right, it will soften your sound and make it fill up more space, which is great for arpeggios during softer parts. Get some overdrive and some delay, play softly above the twelfth fret, and you're in United Live territory. You can also use a similar combination playing aggressively for some Mutemath type stuff (they are a really cool band if you haven't heard of them).

And if you're thinking that you must have to keep changing your settings all the time to do all that stuff, you don't have to. I use basically the same delay setting to play all the aforementioned stuff. I set the delay time around 500ms, mix so that the first delayed note is about equal to or just a tad softer than the initial note, and set the repeats so that I get a few strong repeats, then it trails off. I do occasionally bump the delay mix and time up if I want a really spacious, over-the-top sound, but most of the time I just leave it as is. In a way, delay can be like wah, in that you can learn to play the effect.

One more note: I am not a U2 fan in any sort of way. I am assuming that the U2 sound you have in your head is from songs like "streets." In that case, getting that sound is not just about the delay settings, but also about what you're playing. If I play right, I can coax a U2-like sound out of my same settings that I do all that other stuff with.

Pickalittle
February 3rd, 2009, 08:30 AM
I am going to get flamed for this, but I just cannot hold it in. I would recommend, for a couple of years, just using a tuner and one good distortion or OD pedal. I hear so many lead guitarists who have lost the art of nuance. Yes, nuance. They strum everything with no breaks in the measure. I cannot stand U2 because the Edge, loftly idol that he is, seems to have no clue how to lay off the pedals and just play a few notes, guitar-to-amp to add to the song, instead of dominating it with a wall of sound.
I have been playing as a worship leader or a lead guitarist since the '60's. Before Sparrow, before Word, before Hillsong and before this or that latest mid '20's CCM idol. I am disappointed with where worship music has gone to.
Don't get me wrong. I am a blues rocker to the core, but I have hopefully learned when and how to just let the song have some room. You know, space, without this effect and that.
I long for the days again of just leaving the pedals at home (except tuner)and getting out of the way of the song. Adding tasteful, purposeful fills which elevate the worship instead of dominating it. Actually listening to what is going on with the music and not playing at all sometimes to let the song breathe.
And Please! Use chourus and distortion and flange like you would steak sauce on a good steak...Sparingly!

WideAwake
February 3rd, 2009, 08:36 AM
I cannot stand U2 because the Edge, loftly idol that he is, seems to have no clue how to lay off the pedals and just play a few notes to add to the song, not dominate it with a wall of sound.

This statement does not compute. While he does do the wall of sound thing, sure, he's also excellent at hardly playing anything at all, or weaving single notes around the bassline /drums and vocals.

I have been playing as a worship leader or a lead guitarist since the '60's. Before Sparrow, before Word, before Hillsong, and this or that lates mid '20's CCM idol.

I mean absolutely no disrespect by this, but your style of music/worship leading probably reflects this statement, and that style isn't for everyone.

As for the 'U2 in worship' thing, yes, it's overdone, or it's done poorly. You need a tight rhythm section and a good sense of timing to pull of dotted 8th stuff, or it just sounds like crap. I'll use it in a few songs that call for it, but just as often, my delay pedal is completely off. And you can use a delay pedal for much more than sounding like the Edge, especially if you are the only guitar player. Moderation in anything is good.

Pickalittle
February 3rd, 2009, 08:43 AM
WideAwake,
I respect your opinion and perhaps I should have tempered my comments about the Edge (how about a real name though..."the Edge?"...that's really kinda creepy!). He just does that "Edge thing" enough to where I get bored with his style. You may not like my style either...and I can accept that.

Pickalittle
February 3rd, 2009, 08:47 AM
"I mean absolutely no disrespect by this, but your style of music/worship leading probably reflects this statement, and that style isn't for everyone."

That is absolutely true. I play 5 services each weekend that I play and I'm sure they would have fired me long ago if they didn't like my style. Perhaps they still should for judging a great musician like that! Forgive me, bro!

WideAwake
February 3rd, 2009, 08:53 AM
Hey, we all like different things, and if we all sounded the same, it would be pretty boring. The guitar player I play with in our praise band is totally different from me - he likes bluegrass, older countryish stuff, and is happy to plug into his amp and go and me, well I'm rock and roll all the way, and I like my pedals. So it makes for some occasional interesting times, but I think we've both learned stuff from each other we may not have if in different situations - I sure know I have. And sometimes we do songs I can't stand (and I am sure I bring in a few someone does not like) but we try to cover all bases for people.

As for the Edge's nickname - he got it because of the angular features of his face as a kid, and it stuck.

mrSlush50
February 4th, 2009, 01:35 AM
I use this (http://line6.com/tonecore/echoPark.html?utm_source=Index&utm_medium=DropDown&utm_campaign=Echo+Park) (Line 6 Echo Park)

and this (http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=133&ParentId=90) (Boss SD-1)

For less than $150 I can pretty much play anything our worship leader throws my way.

The Echo Park is great. Every type of delay you could ever need, stereo in and out, and the tap tempo is by far the easiest to use of any single switch pedal on the market. This is makes it a must for anyone whose drummer isn't a perfect metronome.

The SD-1 is cheap and sounds just fine. If you play direct through the PA like I do, good luck convincing anyone who isn't a guitarist that there is any difference between the $40 dollar SD-1 and a $100 TS9 or any other spendy overdrive pedal. If you play through an amp it may be a different story. Plus it looks like you already have a TS9.

(I also use a Line 6 Floor Pod, but the only reason I keep it on the board is for the built in volume pedal and the killer AC-30 model it has built in. If there's one thing Line 6 knows how to do it's amp models.)

Pickalittle
February 4th, 2009, 03:09 AM
MrSlush50:
"The SD-1 is cheap and sounds just fine. If you play direct through the PA like I do, good luck convincing anyone who isn't a guitarist that there is any difference between the $40 dollar SD-1 and a $100 TS9 or any other spendy overdrive pedal."

I agree, and depending on the amp, I sometimes prefered my SD-1 over my beloved Fulltone OCD (yes, I said it!). Mine was modded by Rick Franklin and was deliscioscious!

Southpaw Tele
February 4th, 2009, 08:31 AM
MrSlush50:
"The SD-1 is cheap and sounds just fine. If you play direct through the PA like I do, good luck convincing anyone who isn't a guitarist that there is any difference between the $40 dollar SD-1 and a $100 TS9 or any other spendy overdrive pedal."

I agree, and depending on the amp, I sometimes prefered my SD-1 over my beloved Fulltone OCD (yes, I said it!). Mine was modded by Rick Franklin and was deliscioscious!

I'll take this one step further...I use a Danelectro Cool Cat Drive. Best $24 overdrive pedal out there!

mrSlush50
February 4th, 2009, 07:13 PM
been wanting to try out those cool cat pedals but can't seem to find any one local who carries them.

Pickalittle
February 6th, 2009, 04:14 AM
PraiseCaster:
"I'm sorry, I might not be the best guitarist out there (believe me, I'm not), but I dont want to sound like someone else, or play like someone else. I wanna sound like me, and play like me. And to be stuck in a box sounding like someone else? I dont think I would stick with playing guitar....."

I commend you for your maturity and insight. That's a rare view in CCM these days.

PraiseCaster
February 7th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I commend you for your maturity and insight. That's a rare view in CCM these days.

Wow. Thanks.

There are an awful lot of great musicians out there in the CCM market today, but I see a big glut of those that basically "cop" the Edge attack. And like I said before, I am a huge U2 fan. I saw them before "Oh Boy!" really blew up, and kept tabs on em ever since.

I'm worried that taking the tack, "We gotta sound like everyone else", will lead to CCM stagnating much like it did in the late 70's when everyone seemed to sound like mellowed out soft-rock, and in the late eighties when they went for commercialism.

One insightful story: I went to a very informal concert in 1980. It was the Sweet Comfort Band. They rocked the house! Lotsa great tones emanating from every instrument. I got a chance to talk with them afterwards, and I asked em, "Why dont you record your studio LP's to sound like you do live? That was awesome, and your studio album sounds weak by comparison". The guitarist and bass player laughed, and said, "We want too, but the label and producers will not let us. We actually recorded the album as you said, and we where made to go back in and re-record as you hear it now."

Wow, I dont want to hi-jack this thread, and i do apologize.

Telephonic, I really do urge you to do this, and it will greatly help you in your search for tone:

Find out what your musical influences play through (amps, effects, guitars, etc), then, whenever you get a chance, take your guitar in with you to the guitar shop nearest you, and see if you can try those toys out, and mess around with them for a while. Play the kinda music your going to be playing with it, and when you feel satisfied that you can use this effect, or that one, or the amp fits your needs, well, its time to buy it!

I hope that helps you on your search, and again, I apologize for kinda hi-jacking your thread.......

bek
February 8th, 2009, 03:03 AM
Count me in with PraiseCaster and Pickalittle. I just want to sound like me, which depends on my guitar, amp, technique (if you can call it that) and basics of tone-alteration: reverb, tremolo, overdrive, all in varying amounts. I have several other things (octave, compression, distortion, and a Zoom multipedal [which I play with the delays and flanging and such, then put it away]). I'm too old-school in my approach to get much from other things. I am considering a volume pedal, and a Sound Visual Route 66, and that should be overkill. If my amp had reverb and tremolo (like a Peavey Delta Blues), then it would just be the Route 66 and tuner. Let me get a little Ry Cooder (or Harper) going with a slide, a good sharp single-coil sound and a really fat HB or P90 tone, then I'll be good to go. Let me have enough volume to present a big tone, I can slow down and let the notes breathe and build sounds that go somewhere. The last things I heard that hit me were Ben Harper doing "Church House Steps" and a recent Matisyahu concert (a big Epi semihollow with HBs (Riviera I guess) driving a big Vox, giving a truly massive voice, but still penetrating and versatile. I'm never going to be a good anyone else; I'm only a barely passable me. God calls on us to be the persons He planned for, not wasting our lives trying to re-mold ourselves so we can play like someone else who has "made their mark." That's nothing.

ravindave_3600
February 8th, 2009, 04:54 AM
IA AM SICK OF HEARING EVERY P&W BAND SOUNDING JUST LIKE U2!!!!!!!

It drives me up the wall!

Four of our five team members went to a 3 day P&W Workshop at CC Costa Mesa. I was almost tempted to destroy all my U2 CD's at the end of day 1......

One of the classes was going over gear (thought I would go, just in case there was something new I could learn). Everything seemed to be geared around getting that "U2 Sound" exclusively. When I asked, can we look at other tonal varieties, The guy heading up the workshop, who is a real nice guy and accomplished guitarist (plays with a current CCM artist), he said there was no need, because that tone is all thats needed, becasue that all anyone wants too hear.

Tell us what you REALLY think, Brother! :lol:

No, I agree with you. Joshua Tree is one of my Top 5 albums of all time but WHY DOES EVERY WORSHIP WRITER THINK IT'S GOT TO SOUND THAT WAY? Boring. Simply boring. I do have a delay pedal, but use it sparingly. Speaking of which...

Tele or Epiphone Dot-335 ->
(Crunch) Reverend Drivetrain ->
(OD and boost) Mojohand Copperhead ->
(Chorus) Boss CH1 ->
(Phaser) Ibanez PT9 ->
(Delay) Guyatone MD3 ->
(Tuner) Boss TU2 ->
Blues Junior

It's a rig that covers just about everything I want to play.

Jenix
February 8th, 2009, 01:09 PM
Chris Tomlin's guitar player has his setup online you can find it on youtube. I use Delay whenever I can as well.

PraiseCaster
February 9th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Chris Tomlin's guitar player has his setup online you can find it on youtube. I use Delay whenever I can as well.

Is that Neal Pearce? (I think thats his name.....).

kensmith
February 9th, 2009, 01:18 PM
effects discussion = can o worms :-)

I like effects, but do use them sparingly.

On my board: Wah, Tuner, a couple of OD and Dist, Tremolo, Phaser, Chorus, Delay, Reverb and Volume Pedal (before delay and reverb for lush swells).

I really like the Ben Gowell video on Electric Guitar in Worship (Paul Baloche's guitar player). He talks through some great tips for electric guitar in worship and covers gear too. Highly recommended.

FenderGuy53
February 9th, 2009, 05:28 PM
been wanting to try out those cool cat pedals but can't seem to find any one local who carries them.

Sam Ash carries the Dano Cool Cat line; however, I bought several from Jax Music Supply. Jack sells on Ebay and also has a web-site. His prices can't be beat and he offers a 30-day money-back guarantee and a 60-day store credit guarantee.

I love the Dano pedals. They're true bypass and sound great.

FenderGuy53
February 9th, 2009, 05:30 PM
I'm going with this at church:

MIM Tele --> tuner --> Dano Cool Cat Drive --> Vox AD30V (w/ effects loop) --> Dano Tuna Melt Tremolo --> Ibanez DE-7 Delay/Echo

I use the Trem during verses quite a bit, lately. The delay is great in a number of different settings. Some guys like chorus, but I think it's overdone, personally.

Gotta love those Dano Cool Cats! I have several...

FenderGuy53
February 9th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Hello all, this is my first post...seems like an active and informative forum!

I've been playing for 30 years but the past 7 solely at church - but mostly acoustic. I have now been back on electric for the past year and am in the process of building a new pedalboard. More toys!
I did research posts about pedalboards but am left wondering what else (realisticaly) I should add to color my sound. Delay? Compression? Flanger? Chorus?...and why.

Thanks for any insight!

Scott


Scott, welcome to TDPRI.

I think I can agree with most posters here, who say that less is best. My suggestion would be 1 OD pedal and 1 Modulation pedal, preferably Delay.

I've been playing acoustic and electric for about 7-8 years, but I have just bee nasked to join our church's Praise Band.

For church, I plan to use my "modded" Dano Cool Cat CO-1 Drive pedal as my OD. I'm still trying to decide on a Delay pedal. The Delay pedal is arguably the most versatile of the modulation effects.

Good luck!

Telephonic
February 10th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Thanks for all the feedback (no pun intended)... At this point I'm just using my Zoom G2 at the end of the chain for chorus and dd until I get some single pedals. The dd sure was useful when we did You, You are God (Gateway music) this past weekend!

Southpaw Tele
February 11th, 2009, 10:14 AM
Gotta love those Dano Cool Cats! I have several...

Amen! Built like a stinkin' tank, too!

jelleast
February 11th, 2009, 10:29 AM
hillsong itself has some great stuff on youtube!
try a search for "hillsong guitar workshop"
i used the "mighty to save" workshop with our youthband!

bless. jell