Can someone explain Callaham/Vintique/Tonepros to me?

To be honest, at this point all of this hype around these bridges and parts sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. Sure I get the notion that some made in who knows where out of who knows what bridge ain't going to cut it. But, I need a lot more convincing about how one of these boutique bridges is going to be some sort of dramatic improvement over a good old made in USA steel bridge plate with steel/brass saddles (depending on your preference).

I've spoken with Mr. Callaham and asked him what to expect and he was really nice but not helpful at all really. He gave me nice answers that sounded like marketing type answers. Maybe I didn't ask the right questions but I sure didn't feel like writing him a check after the conversation.

Others here have some experience with them and have posted these glowing reviews. I've also read a bunch of folks say it's all hype. Some folks go so far as to say that you have to have some boutique neck plate - even Mr. Callaham told me that you'd need an oscilloscope to prove any tone difference on that count (but he does offer things like neck plates for a complete hardware line - that I understand). I would love for someone to post the results of a blind comparison. Then I'd love to see a post of the results of a blind comparison in a band setting. For it to be worth it you better be able to hear, feel, or smell the difference in the mix or while playing.

Can't speak for Callaham or V**** bridges; too much money for me.

I can, however, speak for Tone Pros systems. I thought it was a bunch of hype, too. $80 for a set screw?

However, I gave in to curiosity, and ordered one for my Epi LP. Now, I'd upgraded the electronics and pups in the Epi, and had improved it a lot, but it still lacked the sustain that I associate with LP-style guitars. It was also a bit lifeless acoustically.

I put the Tone Pros on there, tightened the set screws, and was amazed. That guitar really came to life when unplugged. Plugged in, the difference was as dramatic as the pup swap.

Now, I know that some people swear by them, whereas others are somewhat equivocal. I think it makes more difference (naturally) in a guitar that's lacking something. An excellent guitar can't be improved that much.

Anyway, I was skeptical until I tried one. Now I'm a believer.

Can't speak for Callaham or V**** bridges; too much money for me.

I can, however, speak for Tone Pros systems. I thought it was a bunch of hype, too. $80 for a set screw?

However, I gave in to curiosity, and ordered one for my Epi LP. Now, I'd upgraded the electronics and pups in the Epi, and had improved it a lot, but it still lacked the sustain that I associate with LP-style guitars. It was also a bit lifeless acoustically.

I put the Tone Pros on there, tightened the set screws, and was amazed. That guitar really came to life when unplugged. Plugged in, the difference was as dramatic as the pup swap.

Now, I know that some people swear by them, whereas others are somewhat equivocal. I think it makes more difference (naturally) in a guitar that's lacking something. An excellent guitar can't be improved that much.

Anyway, I was skeptical until I tried one. Now I'm a believer.

I remember your Tone Pros post a while back. This still doesn't make sense to me. You associate sustain with LP-style guitars. However, a Les Paul doesn't come with a Tone Pros bridge or tail piece. So that by itself ain't it.

Did you try a Gibson USA bridge/tailpiece?

What happens if you loosen/remove the set screws?

Can you tell I'm skeptical? :lol:

I really can't explain it -- it's like getting religion. I became a believer after I heard it on my guitar.

The only explanation I can think of is Dan Erlewine's talk of "coupling". Like I said, I don't think it would make that much difference on a really good guitar (e.g., US Les Paul). However, on a guitar that's lacking something, it might....

I was actually talking to the guys at WD the other day, and they can't keep these things in stock (an almost perpetual backorder). They were saying the same thing, too: who'd have thought that such a simple thing (a set screw) could make so much difference?

I feel weird about singing the praises of these things so much, since I have an account with WD. I'm not trying to sell anything, here, at all -- although I'd be glad to order one for anyone who'd like one.

The only other product that you'll see me singing the praises of like with this thing is the Duncan Broadcaster pup. Again, though, I have to say that it worked for me; I can't guarantee that you'd hear the same results.

I haven't tried the bridge w/out the screws tightened. I may have to do that.

Hippietim-

Here's my thoughts on the Callaham parts I installed on my usacg tele. (Got the full kit) I did not buy them because I thought they had better tonal quality than the standard parts, I liked the way they looked and were machined. The bridge is a bit beefier than a stamped fender bridge, and the compensated saddles intonated perfectly and the small details are taken care of.(height adjustment screws dont protrude to nick you hand, the knobs vol and tone feel great etc.)

I don't believe that there's and significant tonal advantage with these parts-maybe minor at best. The parts are a quality build-and the customer service was outstanding, and frankly the difference in price for the tele kit was only about $40 over stewmac or allparts by my calculations, so I took the plunge.

If you looking for a tonal advantage, I would not bother with the stuff, its minor at best-- BUT they are really well made parts that look and feel better than the standard Fender/aftermarket stuff, and it was worth it for my tele project. Hope this helps.

I bought a Vintique bridge to replace my American Standard bridge and to my ears that made a big difference. Like you, I'm much more skeptical about the difference between the boutique bridges and the standard three barrel. My take on Callaham is that his basic business is building complete guitars and his selling point is flawless finish and metal work in a hand built instrument. In order for his guitars to be competitive he has to have a complete set of parts that are cosmetically superior to Fender's even if they don't really contribute anything to the sound. I guess he didn't tell you, "it dosen't sound any better, it just looks great," but he seems to have come pretty close.

I tend to place boutique parts in the same category as hand-tooled guitar straps. If the look of the part is not a big benefit to you I wouldn't go there. For myself, I might decide to build a sweet looking guitar with all Callaham parts some day. Too many other things on the list right now.

It's no secret round here that I'm a huge fan of Vintique hardware and I have used the vintage bridge, neck kit and control plate + knobs.

Now I can for certain say that the control plate and knobs made no tonal difference at all. But they do look great.

The bridge also looks great, is a work of art and the standard of workmanship is outstanding (not my words, the words of a strainless steel expert here in the UK, although this does reflect my opinion). But did it impact on the tone of the guitar? Well, I don't know, because next to my Broadcaster No.1 replica, it sounded smoother, more refined and mellow. But that could be a combination of the special wound pick up, compensating saddles and an excellent set up. The Broadcaster replica sounds raw, loud and agressive. And that's how and why it was built.

However, I can comment on the neck plate conversion and I disagree with Callaham, but we aren't comparing like with like. I've recently used the Callaham slotted screw kit, whereas the Vintique - and I add a similar solution from TDPRI-er Phil Jacoby (<A HREF ="http://www.philtone.com">Phil Jacoby's Site</a>) - uses threaded saddles that are drilled into the neck, plus machine screws. Now to my ears, this is the thing that impacts very positively on tone, intonation and tuning. Why? Well I believe, it makes the mechanical joint in the neck pocket much more solid and this has a positive impact. Phil [Jacoby] in a previous post on the same subject offers - perhaps - a more informed view and suggested it could add a different tonal quality to some guitars.

He's fitted more of them, but I genuinely believe that that the ones I've fitted have added a positive tonal impact.

So, in summary:

- Bridge plate. No measureable impact on tone, looks great, huge impact on the wallet (hey, it's my money!).
- Neck kit. Noticeable impact (to my ears, positive) tone, tuning and intonation.

Hope this helps

Peter

Most of the favorable comments (and this pretty much holds true for aftermarket pickups, as well) seem to come either from people with specific guitars or homebuilts. Analysis will reveal which models, and some of them fall under the heading of being advertised as 'made in the US.'

The truth, however, is that due to the pressure to keep prices low, 'made in the US' doesn't necessarily mean you're getting the good parts (or the good design) anymore. The converse is that if you do buy the guitars with the 'good parts,' the aftermarket stuff won't help you much.

You're correct in your assumption that those 'good parts' when purchased from Fender or Gibson can make the same improvements in the models cited that the aftermarket pieces do, sometimes for less money. However, they're somewhat less glamorous.


****

FWIW, my problem with Callaham is that he sells neckplates with stamped serial numbers. There's really only one use for them.

Callaham sells a bridge plate without a number if one chooses. And I agree with (hey, it's my money!) Peter, looks great! I'm glad those guys are out there.

Here's my experience with the Vintique bridge on my US 62 RI Tele.

I ordered the bridge for the following reasons, while expecting the bridge itself not to make any sonic difference (aside from moving from threaded steel to brass saddles, obviously):

1) Intonation.
2) The little cut out on the treble side of the bridge lip.

The reason I didn't put a modern 6 saddle lipless bridge on this Tele was because I had already had Teles with the modern bridge, and I don't care for the tone, plus the traditional 2 strings per saddle design offers better coupling and more snap.

What I gained from the bridge that I did not expect was much greater sustain and resonance. I attribute this mostly to the completely flat bottom of the bridge and the additonal screws (2 at the front of the bridge by the pickguard edge and 2 of the regular bridge screws are replaced by longer screws), though the material (stainless) may play a role. I've not ground down the bottom of a standard RI bridge and added screws to compare.

So yes, the bridge changed the sound of my guitar. As I was looking for more sustain and dimension to the notes, the changes were an improvement in my case. YMMV.

And yes, the Tone Pros makes a big difference. The standard TOM design allows for a little bit of movement in the pieces. By locking it down, the movement is stopped, and coupling is increased dramatically (and the bridge and tailpiece won't fall off with the strings removed, and neither will the height adjustment thumbwheels move accidentally while changing strings.