Fred Stuart Blackguard neck PU - small change, BIG improvement!

As mentioned in some previous threads, I've got a Fred Stuart Blackguard neckpickup in one of my Teles (got it used, seller is a member here, too); I was looking for a warm, jazzy sounding neck pickup to pair with a Fender Nocaster bridge pickup, as the NC neck pickup is waaayyy too bright for my taste.

Well, when I got it, I was slightly disappointed, after hearing all the hype about the FS BG - it IS dark, VERY dark, almost muffled; kinda hard to pair with a Tele bridge pickup; also, there's a huge difference in output compared to the Nocaster at the bridge (which isn't exactly a high-output pickup, either), couldn't get the bridge PU low enough to prevent jumps in volume when switching pickups.

So, I was already thinking about replacing the FS BG with yet another one of Pete Biltoft's great Charlie Christian style PUs (which would mean routing the neck PU pocket...); but before doing this, I wanted to try something else: I removed the pickup cover; that was really easy to do, since the FS is not wax-potted; put some black tape around the winding for protection, and mounted the pickup again - looks like this:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/RomanSonnleitner/fsbg-coverremoved.jpg

Well, plugged in the guitar, and HOT DAMN!!! What a difference!!! 100% improvement!!!
You wouldn't believe how different the pickup sounds without that cover - it's like someone pulled a blanket off the amp; yes, this pickup DOES sound warm, woody, jazzy, like I wanted, but without the cover it also has the softly shimmering trebly brilliance that was missing before (and not the harsh cutting treble of the Nocaster neck pickup).
It sounds kinda like a fatter Strat neck pickup, but with the spanky attack of the Tele; very rich, harmonically complex, and VERY dynamic (tone changes a lot between playing softly and digging in).
By comparison, the Vintage Vibe CC-type (which I have in a ash/rosewood Thinline, though - this is an alder solidbody) sounds even broader, more 3D-like, but also cleaner, almost hi-fi - the Blackguard without the cover sounds a bit dirtier, bluesier, raunchier than the CC, with a bit more bite (to get a classic jazz-box comping tone you have to turn down the tone pot a bit).
Oh, and BTW, it's a much better match in output to the Nocaster at the bridge now, too - maybe it is because of the increased treble content, maybe because I can adjust it closer to the strings without the cover, but now it is possible to adjust both pickups so that there are no volume jumps when switching between them.

I have only tried playing it clean at home so far, can't wait to try it with my band, and a bit of OD!

Ok, and maybe I'll get one of those plastic neck PU covers, since the hole in the pickguard is a bit too wide now...

PS: In case you're wondering: the high E-string DOES go over the polepieces, just a bad choice of camera angle that makes it look otherwise...

Great. You've got one of my favourite guitar collections on the TDPRI Roman. It's nice when something works out with just a simple change like that. It's also been my experience that those metal pickup covers can really muddy a good pickup. Unfortunately I like the way the chrome looks. I wonder if a chromed plastic p/u cover would work for you? Might be a cheap and useful experiment. You could keep the looks of the traditional Tele p/u and retain the clarity and tone you've got now.

Yeah, as I said, I'm going to look for one of those plastic covers (preferably chromed); or maybe I should try the German silver cover from the Nocaster neck pickup?

Most interesting... I sold my Stuart neck PU long ago, but I wish I'd thought of that first.

Yeah, my original reponse to the BG neck was that it was too dark. But I've really grown to love it just as it is- and with the cover (I'm a traditionalist: love that chrome!). Glad you've found a way to make yours sound the way you need it to. One thing about the BG neck, it's got a lot of depth and complexity. Responds to attack in a very musical way and is very, very classic blackguard Tele. I've not had the chance to hear the pickup at higher volumes though, as I've only played the guitar at home. I have a feeling with some amp volume, this pickup will really open up beautifully.

It's long been recognized that the chrome covers diminish the sound of Tele neck pups. That's why many Tele pup makers make theirs without the chrome cover, often using plastic instead. Any Tele neck pup can be improved by removing the cover (or getting a pickup designed without one), but most people don't do it because they like the classic look.

Yeah, I knew that in theory, never having tried removing the cover in practice before - but I was amazed how big the actual difference ist - we're not talking about small nuances of tone (as I expected before trying this), we're talking about an almost completely different type of pickup here!

Quite frankly, I guess the difference between a pickup with and without cover seems to be larger than that between eg. an overwound and a regular vintage-style wound pickup...

I'm curious how the plastic cover works out because I like your description of the sound with it off, but I definitely want the classic look.

As mentioned in some previous threads, I've got a Fred Stuart Blackguard neckpickup in one of my Teles (got it used, seller is a member here, too); I was looking for a warm, jazzy sounding neck pickup to pair with a Fender Nocaster bridge pickup, as the NC neck pickup is waaayyy too bright for my taste.

Well, when I got it, I was slightly disappointed, after hearing all the hype about the FS BG - it IS dark, VERY dark, almost muffled; kinda hard to pair with a Tele bridge pickup;

Roman,

Glad you found a solution that makes you happy.

Er, I still love mine just the way it is. So, sorry if I contributed to the "hype".

It is a darkish pickup, but muddy wouldn't be how I'd describe mine. it's still plenty articulate.

But, all my amps tend to be on the bright side. that may be part of the difference we're hearing.

Cheers,
Geoff

"It's long been recognized that the chrome covers diminish the sound of Tele neck pups. That's why many Tele pup makers make theirs without the chrome cover, often using plastic instead. Any Tele neck pup can be improved by removing the cover (or getting a pickup designed without one), but most people don't do it because they like the classic look."

Well, even darker is the brass plated cover...

I use chrome on my pickups and they sound fine to me

Perhaps the Stuart BG is a brass cover? Try chrome plated to see if it improves? Then plastic if not ---

Just an idea...

I believe the cover of the FS BG is chrome-plated brass (at least it looks like brass underneath, judging from a few spots on the edges where you can see what's underneath the chrome).
I do own some pickups with German silver covers (Leosounds MudCat, and I think the Fender Nocaster neck PU cover is also made from that), and they are indeed much brighter.

Geoff,
yeah, amp choice may indeed play a role - my main amp is a JTM45 clone (modded for clean tone), and that isn't exactly a bright amp; and while the FS BG sounded a bit brighter/more useable with my Kustom Defender (rather bright, BF Fender-ish clean tones) and an AC30, it still wasn't possible to find a setting on the amp that worked for both the FS neck pickup and the Nocaster bridge pickup (which isn't really an overly bright pickup, either) - I could have set the amp so I got a very good neck pickup tone, but that setting was much too bright for the bridge pickup then, and the other was round, with the amp set for a twangy, but not ice-picky bridge pickup sound, the neck pickup sounded muffled and lifeless - no way to find a compromise here, and there was also a big difference in loudness, as I mentioned; I guess with a matching Fred Stuart bridge picku, things would be different.

But anyway, now the combination works for me, and if I can find one, I'm going to try a chromed plastic cover (not really urgent, though, I'm not a traditionalist concerning Tele looks...)

Yeah, as I said, I'm going to look for one of those plastic covers (preferably chromed); or maybe I should try the German silver cover from the Nocaster neck pickup?

Maybe you should look for one of those plastic p/u covers. I'm just saying. Again.:oops:

Sorry Roman I guess I must have missed that in your OP. I guess that's where I got the idea from.:grin:

Yea brass is traditional, but it also impedes the magnets the most of all. Stewmac and mojo musical supply sell chrome plated nickel covers. They are a big improvement. Plastic will be even more if not completely transparent.

very timely thread...thanx for your research efforts Roman...

I have always been really happy with the Stuart bridge pup and after installing a Glendale non-magnetic bridge with hardened steel saddles for the D-E strings with an Aluminum E/A....for max. twang...I was able get some really nice tones from the neck pup...balance...harmonic content and sparkle were very nice...

having said that I was happy with the neck pup while using brighter American style speakers (Weber 12F125/Eminence Ragin Cajun)...I just made the switch to British style Scumbacks and I could not dial in the sweet spot on the neck pup...volumn didn't match with the bridge pup...no balance no sparkle and very dark sounding...

I ripped out the neck pup and put in my GVCG/Lollar neck but still am not happy...I've been shopping for a new set of tele pups but will try removing the cover first...then I will install a German Nickle/silver cover and see if that does the trick as I don't like uncovered tele neck pups...

if this doesn't work my next stop might be a Mare S-Telly neck pup...

Chow,
Seegs

Dumb question: is the chrome cover soldered on, or is it removable by hand?

A Fred Stuart blackguard set is loaded in my 69' thinline and I must stay they complement well the guitar. I always find the thinline to be a brighter guitar than a normal Tele. It's got steel saddles too... and I play in a silverface Pro Reverb, so it is a pretty bright set up. I guess that's why I don't find the neck pup too muffled. Dark yes, but in a very good way.

Still I wonder if taking out the cover would help for a punchier tone. So Roman, how would you describe the change, is it "just taking the blanket off the speaker" or does it change also how the pickup reacts ?

And second question : as the pup cover is grounded, it works like a hum shield, so taking it off brings more noise ?

Dumb question: is the chrome cover soldered on, or is it removable by hand?

On mine there was an extra ground wire soldered to one tab of the cover - but I bought it used, so I'm not sure whether this is stock or was made later to use it with a 4-way-switch.
After de-soldering that wire, it's easy to bend up the three tabs with small pliers and slip the cover off the pickup.

Still I wonder if taking out the cover would help for a punchier tone. So Roman, how would you describe the change, is it "just taking the blanket off the speaker" or does it change also how the pickup reacts ?

I wouldn't exactly say it's punchier than it was before - the word I'd use is "bitier" (if there's such a word - I mean, it has got more bite, the difference for me being that "punch" refers to low-mids, and "bite" to high-mids & treble); the pickup already was very dynamic with the cover on it, and that's still the same; and even with the cover on, I was able to dial in a very useable tone - but for that I had to turn the treble pot on the amp all the way up, and then the bridge pickup was unusably ice-picky (as I said, a Fender Nocaster bridge pickup - so, not exactly an extra-trebly bridge pickup either, with a vintage-style bridge pickup the mismatch would have been even worse.)
So, yes, the change is basically like "taking the blanket off the speaker" - same warm woody sound, same very dynamic reaction to picking variations - but with the shimmering treble frequencies, and the chime and brilliance that was missing before - and due to the increase in treble, a slightly more aggressive/bite-y tone; kind like changing form Wes Montgomery to SRV... ;)


And second question : as the pup cover is grounded, it works like a hum shield, so taking it off brings more noise ?I didn't notice any noise problems - but that Tele is very well shielded (also in the pickup cavities), and, as I said, I have only been playing it at home yet, won't know what it sounds like in a band setting (and whether it will hum then) before my band's next rehearsal this Friday evening.

On mine there was an extra ground wire soldered to one tab of the cover - but I bought it used, so I'm not sure whether this is stock or was made later to use it with a 4-way-switch.
After de-soldering that wire, it's easy to bend up the three tabs with small pliers and slip the cover off the pickup.

the ground wire comes stock...

Chow,
Seegs

Thanks Roman ! The punch vs bite explanation makes total sense to me.
Let us know if you have second thoughts after playing it a bit more these days !

before ordering a new set of tele pups I decided to take the neck cover off and low and behold I concur with Roman's findings...I was able get some very nice articulate neck pup tones...the volumn balance also seemed better but after fishing my high E string out from under the lip of the neck pup bobbin I decided to install a new cover...I order a German Silver cover for about 8€ from Rockinger guitars (25€ minimum order) and installed it on my Stuart neck pup...

http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG112&lang=ENG&product=0706C%2F0706G

this is not without some difficulty as the tabs are not as long as on the stock cover but I was able to solder the yellow ground wire (3rd pup wire) to the tab of the cover to the black wire (gnd) of the pup and gently bend and tap the other two tabs over the pup bobbin...just barely but I think its enough to hold...

prelims are that it tends to smooth things out vs. without the cover but still provides better volumn balance and more highs than the stock cover...I will have to do some more tweaking to confirm this as I didn't have much time check it out...

Chow,
Seegs

After reading this thread, I broke out my Tele with the Stuart neck pickup and got the amp good and warm. The thing sounds Beautiful. I really don't think I'd want more treble, to be honest. Plus, the bridge/neck combo is so usable as things are. I understand completely why some people might find the neck too dark (at first I was of the same mind), but now I just love the sound: great for jazz, Curtis Mayfield type chord work and greasy blues. More than anything else, the pickup has a dimension to its sound that I haven't found in other Tele neck pickups. It has a complex tone, for lack of a less pretentious definition. I have a Twang King neck in another Tele that is great: all spank and, well, twang; but it doesn't have near the depth and complexity as the Stuart; or near the depth and complexity of price tag, either. :smile:

Let us know if you have second thoughts after playing it a bit more these days !


No second thoughts here, after playing the modded FS pickup for the first time with my band yesterday - worked GREAT, I could get nice, warm, dark, jazzy tones from the neck pickup, and switch to the bridge pickup for a twangy sound for the next song, without my ears falling off from too much volume and treble; no need to tweak the amp when changing pickups, they balance perfectly now; the middle position is quite nice, too, not as quacky/clucky as with other Teles, but an almost acoustic guitar-type sound; the 4th (series) position also works very well now, kinda like a fattened-up, louder version of the bridge pickup...
Oh, and now the neck pickup also works with OD (I should mention I only use relatively low gain OD, provided by a Barber LTD), whereas before, with the cover on, OD sounds were rather muddy.